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BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
quickfuze wrote: Also if rhinos really go up 15 points to 91 when the impulsor is 79 that is just fething DO NOT CIRCUMVENT THE LANGUAGE FILTER - BROOKM
I hate to be the doomsayer here, but I've been saying for quite some time that people shouldn't expect anything in terms of improving pre-Primaris Marines. I fully expect more and more OG Astartes units to get pushed toward the "Warhammer Legends" category that was mentioned and there won't be any real updates for them in terms of models or rules. I'm basing that off this Community article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/29/breaking-news-sisters-psykers-and-skeletonsgw-homepage-post-4/ (Down below all the fun stuff).
That being said, it's certainly GW's M.O. to push players towards buying the new shinies- even though many times, they're not very good at it because it does seem that they overestimate the effectiveness and practicality of some of their newer models (I don't think their playtesters are being very honest sometimes).
I actually believe- or at least, strongly hope that while all the old stuff will still be valid- there will be more options for our "Primaris Marines that will just be Space Marines from now on", because it's already pretty easy to kitbash older models with them, for the most part. I've already experimented with just using older Mark helmets, backpacks, and weapons from Standard Marines on Primaris bodies for the sake of "bigness"- with no real complaints from other players, only compliments. If these weaponry options were available for Marines with +1 Wound and +1 attack, and balanced accordingly with points and the like... I believe the transition could be smoother (and if all marines were rocking a Primaris Stat Line, I doubt people would gripe too much if someone put his classic Space Marines on the table).
I've no doubt GW will do a slow phase of changes to make all Marines Primaris- while doling out new units piecemeal until they up and officially say, "All Marines are now Primaris". It'd make them more money, and we'd probably go right along with it and eat it up while we complain about it.
As fun as this big wall of text is, Rhinos are 65pts before stormbolters, consistent with sister's prices.
Chaos Rhinos are not
No they're currently 70 before the combi bolter. 99.9% probability when ca drops they'll be 65 before the combi bolter.
You figure out a good reason why a wraithknight should be in the heavy support slot yet?
You mean other than it lacks the survivability AND firepower of every other comparable LoW AND costs about 25-33% more.
The Stompa says hi.
E - gonna share this here too, since it's relevant;
I've done a bit of research and it looks as though Orks are the only faction not to have any points changes in Chapter Approved 2019. The points changes seem organised in alphabetical order and it goes from 'Necrons' to 'Officio Assassinorum' to 'Sisters of Silence' (on the same page).
I don't think I can link pics to the leaks here but just search "blood of kittens chapter approved leaks compilation" and you'll find it.
What the actual feth? Are GW actively trying to ostracise their own player base now?
I can't see it sorry, there's a page with "grey knights, inquisitors and adeptus sororitas" immediately followed by "adeptus custodes" which is blatantly not alphabetical order nor is there a page with any necrons or assassins on?
Edit: You were looking at the 2018 summary, grattis.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/11/29 08:31:21
quickfuze wrote: Also if rhinos really go up 15 points to 91 when the impulsor is 79 that is just fething DO NOT CIRCUMVENT THE LANGUAGE FILTER - BROOKM
I hate to be the doomsayer here, but I've been saying for quite some time that people shouldn't expect anything in terms of improving pre-Primaris Marines. I fully expect more and more OG Astartes units to get pushed toward the "Warhammer Legends" category that was mentioned and there won't be any real updates for them in terms of models or rules. I'm basing that off this Community article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/29/breaking-news-sisters-psykers-and-skeletonsgw-homepage-post-4/ (Down below all the fun stuff).
That being said, it's certainly GW's M.O. to push players towards buying the new shinies- even though many times, they're not very good at it because it does seem that they overestimate the effectiveness and practicality of some of their newer models (I don't think their playtesters are being very honest sometimes).
I actually believe- or at least, strongly hope that while all the old stuff will still be valid- there will be more options for our "Primaris Marines that will just be Space Marines from now on", because it's already pretty easy to kitbash older models with them, for the most part. I've already experimented with just using older Mark helmets, backpacks, and weapons from Standard Marines on Primaris bodies for the sake of "bigness"- with no real complaints from other players, only compliments. If these weaponry options were available for Marines with +1 Wound and +1 attack, and balanced accordingly with points and the like... I believe the transition could be smoother (and if all marines were rocking a Primaris Stat Line, I doubt people would gripe too much if someone put his classic Space Marines on the table).
I've no doubt GW will do a slow phase of changes to make all Marines Primaris- while doling out new units piecemeal until they up and officially say, "All Marines are now Primaris". It'd make them more money, and we'd probably go right along with it and eat it up while we complain about it.
As fun as this big wall of text is, Rhinos are 65pts before stormbolters, consistent with sister's prices.
Chaos Rhinos are not
No they're currently 70 before the combi bolter. 99.9% probability when ca drops they'll be 65 before the combi bolter.
You figure out a good reason why a wraithknight should be in the heavy support slot yet?
You mean other than it lacks the survivability AND firepower of every other comparable LoW AND costs about 25-33% more.
The Stompa says hi.
E - gonna share this here too, since it's relevant;
I've done a bit of research and it looks as though Orks are the only faction not to have any points changes in Chapter Approved 2019. The points changes seem organised in alphabetical order and it goes from 'Necrons' to 'Officio Assassinorum' to 'Sisters of Silence' (on the same page).
I don't think I can link pics to the leaks here but just search "blood of kittens chapter approved leaks compilation" and you'll find it.
What the actual feth? Are GW actively trying to ostracise their own player base now?
I can't see it sorry, there's a page with "grey knights, inquisitors and adeptus sororitas" immediately followed by "adeptus custodes" which is blatantly not alphabetical order nor is there a page with any necrons or assassins on?
Edit: You were looking at the 2018 summary, grattis.
Yeah looks like DUDEFACE is right.
I DID however manage to make out some fw stuff! Looks like leviathan siege drills and claws are both going down 10 points! Same for dreadnought chainfists!
You mean other than it lacks the survivability AND firepower of every other comparable LoW AND costs about 25-33% more. Litterally only way to run one is sword and board just to get the invul same that a rampager knight gets for free
Yeah, but all the Imperial/Chaos Knights in close combat loadout get a bonus attack and a better Weapon Skill just for showing up. The Wraithknight doesn't. Not to mention Imperial/Chaos get free 3 CP if they take 3 of them in a super-heavy detachment. Wraithknights don't.
Nor do ig get free 3 cp if they take 3 baneblade. Baneblades to hs! And pylon! Pylons don't get trait on aux sh det either. Eldar does.
Wk into hs is ridiculous idea. Buff it if need but it's not hs material any more imperial knight is.
macluvin wrote: Maybe 9E should be written by the community instead of GW... perks include never paying for rules update, having complete control over the rules instead of hoping GW takes a step in the right direction, not ever being forced by GW to buy the newest toy to be competitive, and less moaning and groaning about GW not knowing what it’s doing. Start with core rules, find out how to scratch everyone’s itch for how to represent the tactical depth of a conflict, then core rules for armies, then start adding legion tactics, and what not...
I don't think a committee of people who can't even agree if a Wraith Knight should be a LOW are going to make much headway designing a system to cover 30+ years of model releases with a massive variety of lore and model design to represent, 8th isn't perfect but does a pretty good job all things considered. Move to online living rulebooks and it would be great as number of rule sources is my biggest complaint.
Wraith Knight should be a LOW, all day long, every day ;-)
They did with fantasy and epic outclassing gw hands down. 40k ain't different
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/29 09:03:42
Please read the CA announcement. Just like the GHB the CA will now contain all points for all factions and all units regardless of whether they get point updates or not. So Orks are in CA. Whether they get any point changes is another matter.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/29 09:06:46
E - gonna share this here too, since it's relevant;
I've done a bit of research and it looks as though Orks are the only faction not to have any points changes in Chapter Approved 2019. The points changes seem organised in alphabetical order and it goes from 'Necrons' to 'Officio Assassinorum' to 'Sisters of Silence' (on the same page).
I don't think I can link pics to the leaks here but just search "blood of kittens chapter approved leaks compilation" and you'll find it.
What the actual feth? Are GW actively trying to ostracise their own player base now?
Major flaw with logic. Gw said ca will contain all point values. Changed or not. Ergo whether orks get changes or not points are there.
Plenty stuff we haven"' seen any hint yet. We haven't seen pages of necrons either and they get changes
Nor do ig get free 3 cp if they take 3 baneblade. Baneblades to hs! And pylon! Pylons don't get trait on aux sh det either. Eldar does.
Wk into hs is ridiculous idea. Buff it if need but it's not hs material any more imperial knight is.
Not saying it needs to be HS. Sure it's a LoW. But it probably should get the basic benefits non-Eldar Knights get (or better yet, Chaos/Imperial Knights should lose some of the unnecessary freebies like +1 attack, +1 WS on close combat knights and/or extra CP for super-heavy detachments or the free 5++ without sacrificing a weapon arm to be in line with "regular" LoWs, as well as probably go up a bit in points, making the Gatling Cannon 2D6 shots instead of Flat 12 to be in line with the Suncannon, etc.., etc.. ).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/11/29 09:09:25
At time of writing there are no Necron, Ork or Tau leaks that I'm aware of but that in no way means there aren't any changes. An Actual Englishman has caused a page of confusion by accidentally googling last years leaks and overreacting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/29 09:25:04
tneva82 wrote: It's not even mistake if nobody with access to book hasn't bothered to post ork/necron/whatever pictures
Maybe they're trying to spare us the pain. I know they're lowering some necron points, but if they hike up Destroyers/DDAs just because everyone uses them I'll cry. Tbh Destroyers need a drop (and their strat needs an increase).
macluvin wrote: Maybe 9E should be written by the community instead of GW... perks include never paying for rules update, having complete control over the rules instead of hoping GW takes a step in the right direction, not ever being forced by GW to buy the newest toy to be competitive, and less moaning and groaning about GW not knowing what it’s doing. Start with core rules, find out how to scratch everyone’s itch for how to represent the tactical depth of a conflict, then core rules for armies, then start adding legion tactics, and what not...
A ruleset designed by Dakka is not a game I would be interested in playing.
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
macluvin wrote: Maybe 9E should be written by the community instead of GW... perks include never paying for rules update, having complete control over the rules instead of hoping GW takes a step in the right direction, not ever being forced by GW to buy the newest toy to be competitive, and less moaning and groaning about GW not knowing what it’s doing. Start with core rules, find out how to scratch everyone’s itch for how to represent the tactical depth of a conflict, then core rules for armies, then start adding legion tactics, and what not...
A ruleset designed by Dakka is not a game I would be interested in playing.
Contrary to popular belief, those that actually invest themselves in proposed rules etc, and do occaisionally change things up are not worse then GW.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Nor do ig get free 3 cp if they take 3 baneblade. Baneblades to hs! And pylon! Pylons don't get trait on aux sh det either. Eldar does.
Wk into hs is ridiculous idea. Buff it if need but it's not hs material any more imperial knight is.
Not saying it needs to be HS. Sure it's a LoW. But it probably should get the basic benefits non-Eldar Knights get (or better yet, Chaos/Imperial Knights should lose some of the unnecessary freebies like +1 attack, +1 WS on close combat knights and/or extra CP for super-heavy detachments or the free 5++ without sacrificing a weapon arm to be in line with "regular" LoWs, as well as probably go up a bit in points, making the Gatling Cannon 2D6 shots instead of Flat 12 to be in line with the Suncannon, etc.., etc.. ).
The straight melee wraithknight is cheaper than the melee knight and the shield/gun wraithknight is cheaper than the gun/chainsword knight.
Baneblades or more expensive and can't get an invul and fellblades and stompas are WAY more expensive and don't get invuls.
The points drop brings wraithknights closer to where they should be. Yes they were overpriced but 45 points cheaper fixes. If you want stats same as a knight's you'll have to give up some of the points drop.
At least you're low doesn't take up half your points.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: But now that you mention Sisters, Rhinos and that Chassis' Variants (and possibly even Land Raiders?) might always have a good spot in the Sororitas army. It'd be cool to ensure those units always have a place, and Tech-Sisters sounds... fun.
Get your mind out of the gutter, that is not what a Mechadendrite is for.
Sisters never had access to Land Raider chassis before, it is more likely that Chaos is going to be where it all goes.
And it's really only your mind in the gutter dude. Only thing I thought about was "How can we make the mechadendrite throw burning prometheum at the enemy? How much religious bling can we add on it before it crumbles under its on weight?", the kind of questions a real SoB player would ask themselves .
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Adeptus Doritos wrote: But now that you mention Sisters, Rhinos and that Chassis' Variants (and possibly even Land Raiders?) might always have a good spot in the Sororitas army. It'd be cool to ensure those units always have a place, and Tech-Sisters sounds... fun.
Get your mind out of the gutter, that is not what a Mechadendrite is for.
Sisters never had access to Land Raider chassis before, it is more likely that Chaos is going to be where it all goes.
And it's really only your mind in the gutter dude. Only thing I thought about was "How can we make the mechadendrite throw burning prometheum at the enemy? How much religious bling can we add on it before it crumbles under its on weight?", the kind of questions a real SoB player would ask themselves .
A lying heretic, I HAVE SEEN YOUR METAL REPENTIAS /J
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
quickfuze wrote: Also if rhinos really go up 15 points to 91 when the impulsor is 79 that is just fething DO NOT CIRCUMVENT THE LANGUAGE FILTER - BROOKM
I hate to be the doomsayer here, but I've been saying for quite some time that people shouldn't expect anything in terms of improving pre-Primaris Marines. I fully expect more and more OG Astartes units to get pushed toward the "Warhammer Legends" category that was mentioned and there won't be any real updates for them in terms of models or rules. I'm basing that off this Community article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/29/breaking-news-sisters-psykers-and-skeletonsgw-homepage-post-4/ (Down below all the fun stuff).
That being said, it's certainly GW's M.O. to push players towards buying the new shinies- even though many times, they're not very good at it because it does seem that they overestimate the effectiveness and practicality of some of their newer models (I don't think their playtesters are being very honest sometimes).
I actually believe- or at least, strongly hope that while all the old stuff will still be valid- there will be more options for our "Primaris Marines that will just be Space Marines from now on", because it's already pretty easy to kitbash older models with them, for the most part. I've already experimented with just using older Mark helmets, backpacks, and weapons from Standard Marines on Primaris bodies for the sake of "bigness"- with no real complaints from other players, only compliments. If these weaponry options were available for Marines with +1 Wound and +1 attack, and balanced accordingly with points and the like... I believe the transition could be smoother (and if all marines were rocking a Primaris Stat Line, I doubt people would gripe too much if someone put his classic Space Marines on the table).
I've no doubt GW will do a slow phase of changes to make all Marines Primaris- while doling out new units piecemeal until they up and officially say, "All Marines are now Primaris". It'd make them more money, and we'd probably go right along with it and eat it up while we complain about it.
As fun as this big wall of text is, Rhinos are 65pts before stormbolters, consistent with sister's prices.
Chaos Rhinos are not
No they're currently 70 before the combi bolter. 99.9% probability when ca drops they'll be 65 before the combi bolter.
You figure out a good reason why a wraithknight should be in the heavy support slot yet?
You mean other than it lacks the survivability AND firepower of every other comparable LoW AND costs about 25-33% more.
The Stompa says hi.
E - gonna share this here too, since it's relevant;
I've done a bit of research and it looks as though Orks are the only faction not to have any points changes in Chapter Approved 2019. The points changes seem organised in alphabetical order and it goes from 'Necrons' to 'Officio Assassinorum' to 'Sisters of Silence' (on the same page).
I don't think I can link pics to the leaks here but just search "blood of kittens chapter approved leaks compilation" and you'll find it.
What the actual feth? Are GW actively trying to ostracise their own player base now?
I can't see it sorry, there's a page with "grey knights, inquisitors and adeptus sororitas" immediately followed by "adeptus custodes" which is blatantly not alphabetical order nor is there a page with any necrons or assassins on?
Edit: You were looking at the 2018 summary, grattis.
Yea my bad, I was looking at the BoK leaks from last year.
I did find it odd no one was discussing the Ad Mech and IK changes.
I don't have any. I do have DCA, but I used Privateer Press "Daughters of the flame" models, painted in all gold (BLING!). And I even green-stuffed away the buttcrack and the bra-looking breastplate.
Picture of the original models (I don't have pictures of mine, I should make some):
Spoiler:
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
I don't have any. I do have DCA, but I used Privateer Press "Daughters of the flame" models, painted in all gold (BLING!). And I even green-stuffed away the buttcrack and the bra-looking breastplate.
Picture of the original models (I don't have pictures of mine, I should make some):
Spoiler:
/ J stands for joke
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
The straight melee wraithknight is cheaper than the melee knight and the shield/gun wraithknight is cheaper than the gun/chainsword knight.
No. It's not
Gallant is 352 base (with stubber)
CC Despoiler is 372 base (with stubber)
CC Wraithknight is 375 without shoulder-weapons
Rampager is 387 base, but get's exploding 6s on top.
So base Gallant would need to be
- Lose the Fist-army to get a 5++
- Lose 1 Attack
- Be WS 3+
- Lose the stubber
- Be 23 points more expensive
Kitane wrote: Don't forget the stratagems and relics available to the Gallant and to the Wraithknight.
Sure. Wraithknight cannot become a character, take WL-traits, relics, etc.., though inversely Eldar psychic support might be better for a single Wraithknight (though hard if you wanna run multiple). Imp. Knights have lots of dedicated Knight strats though.
quickfuze wrote: Also if rhinos really go up 15 points to 91 when the impulsor is 79 that is just fething DO NOT CIRCUMVENT THE LANGUAGE FILTER - BROOKM
I hate to be the doomsayer here, but I've been saying for quite some time that people shouldn't expect anything in terms of improving pre-Primaris Marines. I fully expect more and more OG Astartes units to get pushed toward the "Warhammer Legends" category that was mentioned and there won't be any real updates for them in terms of models or rules. I'm basing that off this Community article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/29/breaking-news-sisters-psykers-and-skeletonsgw-homepage-post-4/ (Down below all the fun stuff).
That being said, it's certainly GW's M.O. to push players towards buying the new shinies- even though many times, they're not very good at it because it does seem that they overestimate the effectiveness and practicality of some of their newer models (I don't think their playtesters are being very honest sometimes).
I actually believe- or at least, strongly hope that while all the old stuff will still be valid- there will be more options for our "Primaris Marines that will just be Space Marines from now on", because it's already pretty easy to kitbash older models with them, for the most part. I've already experimented with just using older Mark helmets, backpacks, and weapons from Standard Marines on Primaris bodies for the sake of "bigness"- with no real complaints from other players, only compliments. If these weaponry options were available for Marines with +1 Wound and +1 attack, and balanced accordingly with points and the like... I believe the transition could be smoother (and if all marines were rocking a Primaris Stat Line, I doubt people would gripe too much if someone put his classic Space Marines on the table).
I've no doubt GW will do a slow phase of changes to make all Marines Primaris- while doling out new units piecemeal until they up and officially say, "All Marines are now Primaris". It'd make them more money, and we'd probably go right along with it and eat it up while we complain about it.
As fun as this big wall of text is, Rhinos are 65pts before stormbolters, consistent with sister's prices.
Chaos Rhinos are not
No they're currently 70 before the combi bolter. 99.9% probability when ca drops they'll be 65 before the combi bolter.
You figure out a good reason why a wraithknight should be in the heavy support slot yet?
You mean other than it lacks the survivability AND firepower of every other comparable LoW AND costs about 25-33% more. Litterally only way to run one is sword and board just to get the invul same that a rampager knight gets for free
Wraithknights are considerably cheaper than baneblade chassis and way cheaper than fellblade chassis and neither one of those have a way to get that invul through points/equipment. Same goes for stompas.
Imperial/chaos knights are maybe a little under costed or other low are over costed but anything with 20+ wounds and t8 or greater should be low.
The big difference is that baneblade have amassing fire power and WK don`t. Stompa is in bad condition, mainly because of the point coast, but that is totally different topic.
But it will be smart not to include comparison to the cheaper melee with invul 5++ WK without any range weapons, to BB that have weapons with 72 inches range.
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