Chapter Approved 2019

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**RogueApiary**

The Phazer wrote:
Okay, so stand down the GSC panic. Abberants seem to have been nerfed into the ground for no real reason, but they weren't such a core part of the army that's a crisis, just a shame. The Kellermorph isn't an autotake any more, but it's not a disaster.

Shooting got a lot cheaper, but the points reductions to Russes mean they're still probably the better option - at least it's touch an go with GSC vehicles with heavy mining lasers though if you want more mobility.

They finally made Metamorphs cheap enough they're worth thinking about, and didn't change anything about Acolytes which are the core of most people's armies. My army probably nets out points wise, which is fine.

The points differential between Cult Genestealers and Tyranid ones looks even worse though, and I don't understand why that wasn't fixed.

Nerfing demo charges, aberrants, and the kelermorph while buffing metamorphs and ridgerunners to barely usable is somehow coming out ahead? Like, if the army was pulling 55%+ win rates prior maybe I could see it, but in the context of the current balance situation, any net nerf is doubly painful.

Also, screw needing to drop $450 retail to buy 450 points of ridgerunners.

**p5freak**

Dysartes wrote:
Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Dysartes wrote:
Aenar wrote:
I just hope some of the reviewers who get these advance copies of the CA will upload their videos tomorrow, going very slowly through pages well in focus so you can clearly read all the points.
The first reviewer to do that gets many views just from me.

Or you could wait a week, and legally acquire the information.

Nothing illegal about watching a guy on the internet going over point changes and using BS instead of buying the book. ^^

Watching a video of someone going over the changes, then buying the book when released? Generally fine, depending on how much detail the reviewer goes into (highlights as a tease? OK. As described by the person I first responded to, panning the camera slowly over the pages so that everything is legible? Not fine.)

Watching a video of someone going over the changes, then using BS (appropriate acronym, really) instead of (as opposed to as well as) buying the book? That's piracy, pure and simple, which I thought this place didn't encourage.

Points habe eben leaked by D6evolution on YouTube. With GW knowledge and permission. No one who gets any GW books ahead of official releasement would dare to do so, without GW allowing it. So stop talking nonsense about piracy.

**Gadzilla666**

No drops for hellforged low? Seriously gw you STILL haven't sold enough knights? Drops to the already cheap storm surge and ugly lord of skulls? No drop to the dark apostle? Chosen?

And it looks like orks and gsc got hit hardest. Not much help for eldar either.

At least marines are ok.

**Sunny Side Up**

Yeah, the standard Aberrant 10-man with stop signs unit going up 60 (?) points now in a world where things like Riptides and Discolords stayed the same and even Caladius came back down seems odd, even if Marines hadn’t come out.

**Aenar**

p5freak wrote:
Dysartes wrote:
Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Dysartes wrote:
Aenar wrote:
I just hope some of the reviewers who get these advance copies of the CA will upload their videos tomorrow, going very slowly through pages well in focus so you can clearly read all the points.
The first reviewer to do that gets many views just from me.

Or you could wait a week, and legally acquire the information.

Nothing illegal about watching a guy on the internet going over point changes and using BS instead of buying the book. ^^

Watching a video of someone going over the changes, then buying the book when released? Generally fine, depending on how much detail the reviewer goes into (highlights as a tease? OK. As described by the person I first responded to, panning the camera slowly over the pages so that everything is legible? Not fine.)

Watching a video of someone going over the changes, then using BS (appropriate acronym, really) instead of (as opposed to as well as) buying the book? That's piracy, pure and simple, which I thought this place didn't encourage.

Points habe eben leaked by D6evolution on YouTube. With GW knowledge and permission. No one who gets any GW books ahead of official releasement would dare to do so, without GW allowing it. So stop talking nonsense about piracy.

Nobody uses low quality youtube screenshots instead of official books or battlescribe. And using battlescribe is not piracy, as it's a list builder that does not contain all the rules you need to play and is tolerated by GW (it would've been shut down long ago otherwise)1.
Piracy would be downloading scans of books, not watching review videos.

**Not Online!!!**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
No drops for hellforged low? Seriously gw you STILL haven't sold enough knights? Drops to the already cheap storm surge and ugly lord of skulls? No drop to the dark apostle? Chosen?

And it looks like orks and gsc got hit hardest. Not much help for eldar either.

At least marines are ok.

Where are fw leaks?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Found them.

R&H cultists are remaining 5pts?!
No changes else there?

Wtf gw

**Arbitrator**

The Phazer wrote:
Okay, so stand down the GSC panic. Abberants seem to have been nerfed into the ground for no real reason, but they weren't such a core part of the army that's a crisis, just a shame. The Kellermorph isn't an autotake any more, but it's not a disaster.

Shooting got a lot cheaper, but the points reductions to Russes mean they're still probably the better option - at least it's touch an go with GSC vehicles with heavy mining lasers though if you want more mobility.

They finally made Metamorphs cheap enough they're worth thinking about, and didn't change anything about Acolytes which are the core of most people's armies. My army probably nets out points wise, which is fine.

The points differential between Cult Genestealers and Tyranid ones looks even worse though, and I don't understand why that wasn't fixed.

Purestrains are still 15pts for some reason? Presumably to encourage GSC players to buy Codex: Tyranids and a Broodlord to make use of them.

Abberents were probably nerfed for no other reason than getting people to buy x4 £25 Acolyte boxes being better for GW's pocket than x2 £25 Abberants (if not just the one).

Ridgerunner price drop is pretty nice, but it begs the question why the Goliath/Rockgrinder didn't get one either when neither were used.

**Jidmah**

lolman1c wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
Ork changes:

Bommdakka -20
Kopta -10
KBB -20
Skrappjet -10
Rukkatrukk -40
Dragsta -18
Warbike Nobz -5
Deff Dreads -10
Flashgitz -6
Killakan -10
Stompa -50
Smashagunz +2
Skorcha Missle -15

So GW is BEGGING us to buy those fething buggies meanwhile doing NOTHING for the rest of the fething army. We are stuck in the same repetitive army for another year.
Oh yeah -50 points on a stompa.
feth YOU.

This is an insult to Ork players. However, from the sounds of it, our gretchin stayed the same so at least that rumour is BS. Unless they did go up and I missed it.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Yes, the stompa still sucks and they forgot transports exist, but one of the major complaints of the ork community has been the inability to play a proper speed freeks lists. Everything that can even remotely be consider speed freak but warbikers and transport got cheaper, and the only unit nerfed is one that definitely deserves it. Plus they put the Big Mek with KFF onto the list as new entry, which mean it will not be going to legends like the biker characters.

**Emicrania**

Jid brother, we needed something more to keep up with the meta, PK and BC and nobz need to go down. Survivability is essential and our trasnport are at least 15% overpriced.
IMHO we got no real love beside those fething buggie that nobody cares about.

**Dudeface**

Emicrania wrote:
Jid brother, we needed something more to keep up with the meta, PK and BC and nobz need to go down. Survivability is essential and our trasnport are at least 15% overpriced.
IMHO we got no real love beside those fething buggie that nobody cares about.

Make the buggies cheap enough and people will care about them.

**Gadzilla666**

Ok watched striking scorpion 88 and apparently chosen have dropped to 12ppm. Dark apostle is 72.

But here's another bonus. If my math is right on the war gear (using battlescribe for this cause it's loyalist) the astreus is down 100 points. Y'know the fething PRIMARIS super heavy.

Seriously WTF GW?

**BoomWolf**

Question, heard someone say in a "review vid" that some daemon units got new datasheets in the back, anyone seen/heard of this?

Because it might explain some of the smaller daemon HQs going on a price hike.

**Galef**

Regarding Deathwatch: it looks like all bolter variants dropped to match regular Marine costs. So no more SIA tax.
This makes sense now that regular Marines get Combat Doctrines

-

**Selfcontrol**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
No drops for hellforged low? Seriously gw you STILL haven't sold enough knights? Drops to the already cheap storm surge and ugly lord of skulls? No drop to the dark apostle? Chosen?

And it looks like orks and gsc got hit hardest. Not much help for eldar either.

At least marines are ok.

Dark Apostle is 72 (-28)
Chosen are 12 ppm (-2)
Forgefiend is 80 (-20)
Obliterator is 95 (-20)
Venomcrawler is 115 (-15)
Maulerfiend is 110 (-10 + -4 demonic jaw is now 8 instead of 12)
Sorcerer is 80 (-10)
MoP is 80 (-10)
Possessed is 17 (-3)
Warp Talon is 19 (-3 the model -2 dual lightning claws)

Also it seems that GW is really trying its hardest to push FW out of competitive. Good.

**ArcaneHorror**

Wait, is the CA already sold out? I checked on the GW website and I can't find it for preorder.

**Galef**

ArcaneHorror wrote:
Wait, is the CA already sold out? I checked on the GW website and I can't find it for preorder.

No it isn't out for everyone but a few select people have it early to drum up the hype for it's preorder

-

**Red Corsair**

IanVanCheese wrote:
GW aren't going to get rid of super doctrines, so it's moot. They might enforce moving through them as a nerf, so that's the realistic best way to fix them.

The easiest fix would be to disallow ANY (not just marine) supplements from matched play events. Obviously this is done on a case by case basis, but the standard marine book IMHO is fine and actually a needed buff, it's just all the extra free crap from the other sources that gets broken.

**Jidmah**

Emicrania wrote:
Jid brother, we needed something more to keep up with the meta, PK and BC and nobz need to go down. Survivability is essential and our trasnport are at least 15% overpriced.
IMHO we got no real love beside those fething buggie that nobody cares about.

I'd argue less people care about PK and BC nobz than about buggies. Gits went down, KBB, SJD and scrapjet went down. The kopta might or might not have an impact on competitive play.

The thing is, CA was quite obviously written before the whole numarine disaster, at which point shooty orks were an army which was regularly doing quite well. Obviously, buffing any of the cogs which made that army work could have ended in a very hard to stop top tier army.
What we see here is an attempt to buff some sort of vehicle-based archetype to competitive levels. The only thing puzzling me is why they didn't touch trukks and battlewagons, but that is far from "an insult to ork players" especially since they obviously realized the issue with the KFF mek going to legends and did something about it.

**An Actual Englishman**

Jidmah wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
Jid brother, we needed something more to keep up with the meta, PK and BC and nobz need to go down. Survivability is essential and our trasnport are at least 15% overpriced.
IMHO we got no real love beside those fething buggie that nobody cares about.

I'd argue less people care about PK and BC nobz than about buggies. Gits went down, KBB, SJD and scrapjet went down. The kopta might or might not have an impact on competitive play.

The thing is, CA was quite obviously written before the whole numarine disaster, at which point shooty orks were an army which was regularly doing quite well. Obviously, buffing any of the cogs which made that army work could have ended in a very hard to stop top tier army.
What we see here is an attempt to buff some sort of vehicle-based archetype to competitive levels. The only thing puzzling me is why they didn't touch trukks and battlewagons, but that is far from "an insult to ork players" especially since they obviously realized the issue with the KFF mek going to legends and did something about it.

I'm with Jid on this.

The changes aren't enough given the Marine meta, but we knew this before CA was fully leaked. Let's not pretend we were expecting Marine Meta levels of buffs here. If our only nerf was a 2pt increase to the still incredibly efficient Smasha Gun I think we've done very well.

We're not going to be any more prevalent in the meta I don't think, but Flash Gits were helped a little, and they aren't probably our best Marine killer.

**Emicrania**

Whilst is true that they argue less about it, changing prices on the weapons have a carpet effect on the whole army, buffing us back in the competitve top.

I ll do the math on the buggie and say what i think about it.
ATM im VERY pissed for the lack of point change on PK, transports and the goddamn Stompa, I wanna play that model so bad it makes me wanna cry....

Automatically Appended Next Post:

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
Jid brother, we needed something more to keep up with the meta, PK and BC and nobz need to go down. Survivability is essential and our trasnport are at least 15% overpriced.
IMHO we got no real love beside those fething buggie that nobody cares about.

I'd argue less people care about PK and BC nobz than about buggies. Gits went down, KBB, SJD and scrapjet went down. The kopta might or might not have an impact on competitive play.

The thing is, CA was quite obviously written before the whole numarine disaster, at which point shooty orks were an army which was regularly doing quite well. Obviously, buffing any of the cogs which made that army work could have ended in a very hard to stop top tier army.
What we see here is an attempt to buff some sort of vehicle-based archetype to competitive levels. The only thing puzzling me is why they didn't touch trukks and battlewagons, but that is far from "an insult to ork players" especially since they obviously realized the issue with the KFF mek going to legends and did something about it.

I'm with Jid on this.

The changes aren't enough given the Marine meta, but we knew this before CA was fully leaked. Let's not pretend we were expecting Marine Meta levels of buffs here. If our only nerf was a 2pt increase to the still incredibly efficient Smasha Gun I think we've done very well.

We're not going to be any more prevalent in the meta I don't think, but Flash Gits were helped a little, and they aren't probably our best Marine killer.

Flashgitz are ROI the best marines killer we have in the whole codex.

**Jidmah**

Emicrania wrote:
ATM im VERY pissed for the lack of point change on PK, transports and the goddamn Stompa, I wanna play that model so bad it makes me wanna cry....

I agree, the lack of point drops on weapons and transports are weird.

**Apple Peel**

Guard points?
I heard assassins went up ten each?

**BoomWolf**

Selfcontrol wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
No drops for hellforged low? Seriously gw you STILL haven't sold enough knights? Drops to the already cheap storm surge and ugly lord of skulls? No drop to the dark apostle? Chosen?

And it looks like orks and gsc got hit hardest. Not much help for eldar either.

At least marines are ok.

Dark Apostle is 72 (-28)
Chosen are 12 ppm (-2)
Forgefiend is 80 (-20)
Obliterator is 95 (-20)
Venomcrawler is 115 (-15)
Maulerfiend is 110 (-10 + -4 demonic jaw is now 8 instead of 12)
Sorcerer is 80 (-10)
MoP is 80 (-10)
Possessed is 17 (-3)
Warp Talon is 19 (-3 the model -2 dual lightning claws)

Also it seems that GW is really trying its hardest to push FW out of competitive. Good.

They are not pushing FW out of competetive
They didn't update FW, AT ALL, with the only exception I found is custards.

So...bascially this confirms that forgeworld is STILL non-functional.
Like seriously, I know a bigshot died a few years ago, but did he manage the entire place himself and no replacement was ever hired? FW is completely non-functional on all levels from the day 8th edition dropped.

**Ordana**

BoomWolf wrote:
Question, heard someone say in a "review vid" that some daemon units got new datasheets in the back, anyone seen/heard of this?

Because it might explain some of the smaller daemon HQs going on a price hike.

I skipped over it but I think its bringing some of the Slaanesh AoS stuff in 40k. While skipping through it I saw the Keeper of Secret special character name.

**Gadzilla666**

Selfcontrol wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
No drops for hellforged low? Seriously gw you STILL haven't sold enough knights? Drops to the already cheap storm surge and ugly lord of skulls? No drop to the dark apostle? Chosen?

And it looks like orks and gsc got hit hardest. Not much help for eldar either.

At least marines are ok.

Dark Apostle is 72 (-28)
Chosen are 12 ppm (-2)
Forgefiend is 80 (-20)
Obliterator is 95 (-20)
Venomcrawler is 115 (-15)
Maulerfiend is 110 (-10 + -4 demonic jaw is now 8 instead of 12)
Sorcerer is 80 (-10)
MoP is 80 (-10)
Possessed is 17 (-3)
Warp Talon is 19 (-3 the model -2 dual lightning claws)

Also it seems that GW is really trying its hardest to push FW out of competitive. Good.

Yeah because resin=magic.

And if they want to push fw out of competitive how about a rule that says "NO FW IN COMPETITIVE PLAY " instead of messing up points for everyone?

**Not Online!!!**

BoomWolf wrote:
Selfcontrol wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
No drops for hellforged low? Seriously gw you STILL haven't sold enough knights? Drops to the already cheap storm surge and ugly lord of skulls? No drop to the dark apostle? Chosen?

And it looks like orks and gsc got hit hardest. Not much help for eldar either.

At least marines are ok.

Dark Apostle is 72 (-28)
Chosen are 12 ppm (-2)
Forgefiend is 80 (-20)
Obliterator is 95 (-20)
Venomcrawler is 115 (-15)
Maulerfiend is 110 (-10 + -4 demonic jaw is now 8 instead of 12)
Sorcerer is 80 (-10)
MoP is 80 (-10)
Possessed is 17 (-3)
Warp Talon is 19 (-3 the model -2 dual lightning claws)

Also it seems that GW is really trying its hardest to push FW out of competitive. Good.

They are not pushing FW out of competetive
They didn't update FW, AT ALL, with the only exception I found is custards.

So...bascially this confirms that forgeworld is STILL non-functional.
Like seriously, I know a bigshot died a few years ago, but did he manage the entire place himself and no replacement was ever hired? FW is completely non-functional on all levels from the day 8th edition dropped.

Great isn't it.
But we needed more mahhhrreeeeeeennns in all books, period..

**YeOldSaltPotato**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
And if they want to push fw out of competitive how about a rule that says "NO FW IN COMPETITIVE PLAY " instead of messing up points for everyone?

Have you ever seen the reaction here to people not wanting to play against forgeworld? That's why.

**Gadzilla666**

YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
And if they want to push fw out of competitive how about a rule that says "NO FW IN COMPETITIVE PLAY " instead of messing up points for everyone?

Have you ever seen the reaction here to people not wanting to play against forgeworld? That's why.

Yeah I know I'm one of em.

Btw anybody seen reviews of pa3? It's a ba codex points and all.

**Bdrone**

so, any folk with Tau, IG or Custodes experience. whats your take on the respective changes? i have an interest in all 3 of those factions, and does any of this shake things up for any of them?

**Rydria**

Noise Marines 13pts, blaster master 12pts, doom siren 8, sonic blaster 4pts.