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 H wrote:
I'd actually think that is somewhat "likely" as the main reason for the long development. Not to make what will, precedently, likely be some dubious quality rules, but rather, I don't think GW wants to be in any material but plastic, so it will take time to revamp all the lines to be 100% plastic and ready to go.

That's a good point. I've been trying to figure out why the Design Team is involved, and assumed it would be for token new heroes for marketing to pimp out, but in fact they'll want shiny new heroes for marketing to pimp out so they can retire poorly made resin casts of tired old metal molds.

As neat as it is that the Olde Worlde is coming back .... That itch is scratched for me with Totalwar:Warhammer honestly.
As for RNF, I think I'll just keep investing in Conquest...

Darsath wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Not sure I see the point in this announcement if I'm being honest. The game is 2-3 years away, and the only thing they have at the moment is a logo.

You know how GW won't announce their new stuff too far in advance (sisters aside) because they want people buying what's available, not what's coming out in a year? Fantasy mass combat is currently the opposite of that. Gw isn't selling anything to scratch that itch, but plenty of others are. In this case, GW wants us to not buy into Oathmark or Warlords or KOW or ASOIAF and instead wait to play our Brets or Dwarves or greenskins with gW again.

Seems odd, mostly because Games Workshop got rid of Warhammer Fantasy because it didn't have the players to support it. Why go back to it now?

My guess is that AOS has converted as many WFB players as it ever will, which means that WFB players will continue to play alternatives. The Cities of Sigmar book was the nail in the coffin for about five different factions ever getting a full battletome.

GW really wants AOS to succeed, as it's a flagship. But if people still want old world ranks and flanks, which at this point is pretty clear, than by god sell it to them.

It's also an incredible power move to their competition.

 malfred wrote:
Maybe this was just deadspace in the endless Warhammer Community
hypetrain.

Bit of a reach given how busy this week is in terms of articles. There were three separate preview articles yesterday alone.

Darsath wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Not sure I see the point in this announcement if I'm being honest. The game is 2-3 years away, and the only thing they have at the moment is a logo.

You know how GW won't announce their new stuff too far in advance (sisters aside) because they want people buying what's available, not what's coming out in a year? Fantasy mass combat is currently the opposite of that. Gw isn't selling anything to scratch that itch, but plenty of others are. In this case, GW wants us to not buy into Oathmark or Warlords or KOW or ASOIAF and instead wait to play our Brets or Dwarves or greenskins with gW again.

Seems odd, mostly because Games Workshop got rid of Warhammer Fantasy because it didn't have the players to support it. Why go back to it now?

They had players. Just not monthly releases to sell to player base starving for releases.

Sure sales weren't 40k scale but top3 miniature sales. Is aos 40k equal either?

Darsath wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Not sure I see the point in this announcement if I'm being honest. The game is 2-3 years away, and the only thing they have at the moment is a logo.

You know how GW won't announce their new stuff too far in advance (sisters aside) because they want people buying what's available, not what's coming out in a year? Fantasy mass combat is currently the opposite of that. Gw isn't selling anything to scratch that itch, but plenty of others are. In this case, GW wants us to not buy into Oathmark or Warlords or KOW or ASOIAF and instead wait to play our Brets or Dwarves or greenskins with gW again.

Seems odd, mostly because Games Workshop got rid of Warhammer Fantasy because it didn't have the players to support it. Why go back to it now?

This may have a simple answer.

At the time, GW needed a second money maker. So we got AoS.

Now AoS is going good guns, bringing back WHFB offers a secondary revenue stream. It may bring in less than AoS (it may bring in more, who knows). But with GW making money hand over fist, they can afford the limited risk involved of resurrecting WHFB.

Darsath wrote:

Seems odd, mostly because Games Workshop got rid of Warhammer Fantasy because it didn't have the players to support it. Why go back to it now?

Age of Sigmar has its own identity now with lots of armies unique to the setting with their own art style. I'd actually not be terribly surprised if some armies slid out of Sigmar and back into Old World as more fantastic replacements are created (Seraphon).

I also think the model for Olde World will be closer to MESBG than to 30k. Mostly rereleases of older models, new rules, and a handful of new sculpts.

also, if AOS minis will sell for 2 game systems, they could, in theory, double their income just by sticking square bases in their boxes.

BrianDavion wrote:
also, if AOS minis will sell for 2 game systems, they could, in theory, double their income just by sticking square bases in their boxes.

ain't no way a lot of those AOS minis are ranking up. I can see some porting over though.

Updated the OP! Let me know if I missed anything

Darsath wrote:
Seems odd, mostly because Games Workshop got rid of Warhammer Fantasy because it didn't have the players to support it. Why go back to it now?

I think it was more that they thought (maybe even correctly) that they'd get more players by making Fantasy more 40k like. I don't think the issue was, per se, that Fantasy didn't sell, rather, it didn't sell as well as they'd have liked. What KoW, t9A, et al. likely have shown in the intervening years, is that there is still a market there that likely did not "switch over" into AoS. In other words, there is still an open market that likely does not cannibalize the AoS market.

They already have probably, what, 70% of the already plastic molds they'd need? They already have, as the video games show, a good bit of brand-recognition. They already own the IP and that IP has shown to be valuable. And they already know that people will likely buy rules based on those things (almost) alone. This seems like a slam dunk for GW. Is it a slam dunk for Fantasy aficionados? Maybe, hard to say, but I find it a little hard to believe too many realistic and not-mutually exclusive options is really all that bad a thing.

Just having some of the Total war units as models would be very nice

Did somebody say square-based RNF mini-wargaming??

https://www.facebook.com/manticgames/videos/794774804299081/

 H wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Seems odd, mostly because Games Workshop got rid of Warhammer Fantasy because it didn't have the players to support it. Why go back to it now?

I think it was more that they thought (maybe even correctly) that they'd get more players by making Fantasy more 40k like. I don't think the issue was, per se, that Fantasy didn't sell, rather, it didn't sell as well as they'd have liked. What KoW, t9A, et al. likely have shown in the intervening years, is that there is still a market there that likely did not "switch over" into AoS. In other words, there is still an open market that likely does not cannibalize the AoS market.

They already have probably, what, 70% of the already plastic molds they'd need? They already have, as the video games show, a good bit of brand-recognition. They already own the IP and that IP has shown to be valuable. And they already know that people will likely buy rules based on those things (almost) alone. This seems like a slam dunk for GW. Is it a slam dunk for Fantasy aficionados? Maybe, hard to say, but I find it a little hard to believe too many realistic and not-mutually exclusive options is really all that bad a thing.

Part of the reason as to why some players didn't convert to the new system could have been the honestly abysmal launch of Age of Sigmar. They have, of course, done a lot to right the course, and seen great success from doing so. However, some players may still have been soured from the mishandling at the launch.

Mantic has already responded with a snarky video, which makes me think this announcement wasn't news to them.

Mantic has already responded with a snarky video, which makes me think this announcement wasn't news to them.

https://de-de.facebook.com/manticgames/videos/794774804299081/

Darsath wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Not sure I see the point in this announcement if I'm being honest. The game is 2-3 years away, and the only thing they have at the moment is a logo.

You know how GW won't announce their new stuff too far in advance (sisters aside) because they want people buying what's available, not what's coming out in a year? Fantasy mass combat is currently the opposite of that. Gw isn't selling anything to scratch that itch, but plenty of others are. In this case, GW wants us to not buy into Oathmark or Warlords or KOW or ASOIAF and instead wait to play our Brets or Dwarves or greenskins with gW again.

Seems odd, mostly because Games Workshop got rid of Warhammer Fantasy because it didn't have the players to support it. Why go back to it now?

You mean like they got rid of Adeptus Titanicus, Necromunda and Blood Bowl and go back to it now?

This is gonna make them an absolute metric sh1t ton of money.

As cool as this is though, I don't have any confidence in GW to make the kind of ruleset for it that would make me want to invest any serious amount of time into playing....though I do hope they prove me wrong there.

This also bodes well for a new Mordheim.

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Did somebody say square-based RNF mini-wargaming??

https://www.facebook.com/manticgames/videos/794774804299081/

Lol, well played Mantic

Unfortunately, I just haven't been able to get hooked by KoW. I tried it, even got an army together for it, but in the end it felt like it should be played at 15mm. Not being able to reform ranks, units being blocks and not individual models... I can see why it's awesome, but it just wasn't for me.

Will keep an eye on this, but years off definitely tempers things...

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Mantic has already responded with a snarky video, which makes me think this announcement wasn't news to them.

Given how quick it was put out I have to believe they figured they needed to quickly ride the train and act before people just stopped buying from them.

 kodos wrote:

Mantic has already responded with a snarky video, which makes me think this announcement wasn't news to them.

https://de-de.facebook.com/manticgames/videos/794774804299081/

Darsath wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Not sure I see the point in this announcement if I'm being honest. The game is 2-3 years away, and the only thing they have at the moment is a logo.

You know how GW won't announce their new stuff too far in advance (sisters aside) because they want people buying what's available, not what's coming out in a year? Fantasy mass combat is currently the opposite of that. Gw isn't selling anything to scratch that itch, but plenty of others are. In this case, GW wants us to not buy into Oathmark or Warlords or KOW or ASOIAF and instead wait to play our Brets or Dwarves or greenskins with gW again.

Seems odd, mostly because Games Workshop got rid of Warhammer Fantasy because it didn't have the players to support it. Why go back to it now?

You mean like they got rid of Adeptus Titanicus, Necromunda and Blood Bowl and go back to it now?

Also don't forget many of the reasons that Old World was doing badly were issues caused or exacerbated by GW's actions at the time. Old World had issues but nothing which couldn't be overcome; however GW chose to take a totally different pathway and instead copy their working game model in 40K by releasing Age of Sigmar. Of course they also made a load of other mistakes (stripping out rules- approaching AoS like a boutique model line- not listening to fans and gamers - building huge marketing into Old World only to axe the product line and game system).

I think that GW today is more keen to chase smaller profitable margins in their model lines whilst GW of old kept looking for golden goose egg releases and if it wasn't they scrambled - er scrapped it.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Mantic has already responded with a snarky video, which makes me think this announcement wasn't news to them.

Given how quick it was put out I have to believe they figured they needed to quickly ride the train and act before people just stopped buying from them.

To be fair, they could easily catch a lot of hyped players who won't want to wait years to play the game.

I wonder how blown that guy who burned his army is!

That is a very underwhelming announcement. To be honest I'm much more interested in what's coming from Hysh. I don't care if they're working on a game that takes place in the old world that's coming out in three or more years.

Unless it's a new version of Warmaster with small scale plastic armies. Probably in 12mm so people with existing Warmaster armies can't use them...

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Did somebody say square-based RNF mini-wargaming??

https://www.facebook.com/manticgames/videos/794774804299081/

I really don't like Mantic's models.
I'm sure their rule sets beat GW, but their models do nothing for me.

Boss Salvage wrote:That's a good point. I've been trying to figure out why the Design Team is involved, and assumed it would be for token new heroes for marketing to pimp out, but in fact they'll want shiny new heroes for marketing to pimp out so they can retire poorly made resin casts of tired old metal molds.

Exactly. Let's pretend it's late 2020, or 2021, do they really want to be rolling out resin? I don't think so. Anything that was metal likely either gets Squatted or "revamped" as something new.

Mr Morden wrote:Just having some of the Total war units as models would be very nice

This is a good point. Now, I am not too savvy on the manner and nature of the Warhammer TW's IP, but who actually owns the 3D model of something from the game? As in, could GW use a TW 3D model to make a miniature? I'd guess not. Then again, doesn't GW own the IP on which it is based? So, I don't know how or if TW could claim that GW can't use their work. I'm definitely not anything of an IP lawyer, but seems like a real grey area. I don't know how or if it would work.

But yeah, I can definitely seem some stuff get "ported over" for certain. Likely just with changes to make them more feasible for plastic production. I guess I should brush up on what TW stuff looks like, I've honestly never played any of them, haha.

 dan2026 wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Did somebody say square-based RNF mini-wargaming??

https://www.facebook.com/manticgames/videos/794774804299081/

I really don't like Mantic's models.
I'm sure their rule sets beat GW, but their models do nothing for me.

I have never played Kings of War, but I don't like the look of their models. Only models I have are zombies from mantic, and if you have played Vampire Counts in WHFB you'll know why.

 dan2026 wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Did somebody say square-based RNF mini-wargaming??

https://www.facebook.com/manticgames/videos/794774804299081/

I really don't like Mantic's models.
I'm sure their rule sets beat GW, but their models do nothing for me.

Luckily Mantic makes army lists for all GW WHFB factions and lets you use GW models.

mhalko1 wrote:
I wonder how blown that guy who burned his army is!

Probably really excited he can blow more money on GW stuff.

dan2026 wrote:
I really don't like Mantic's models.
I'm sure their rule sets beat GW, but their models do nothing for me.

I actually find their rule set worse than the models.
It technically functional, but really dull.

mhalko1 wrote:
I wonder how blown that guy who burned his army is!

Seeing there's no hard facts supporting old armies being usable...it could be warmaster reboot to avoid 2 different same scale fb lines separate from each other for example