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Has GW said it is them that are doing this game?

One thing over the years that GW have proven is people are willing to drop £££ on things that they love. No one would have even considered a full resin FW 40k army (apart from the hardcore DKoK players) and yet 30k took off very well.

This has proven that people will pay £40 for a unit and as a lot of the old WHFB players did not start AoS there is certainly a market to get those people paying GW.

Overread wrote:
There's always the risk that they could make something you enjoy

Now you're just being silly!

Overread wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 auticus wrote:
My expectation is movement trays for their current lineup, and a game very similar to AOS that is built around CCG elements, buffs, and very very basic rules that will not really do it for me.

Set in the old world.

There's always the risk that they could make something you enjoy

There will be 3 years of buildup. Nothing that GW will release will come close to the ideal game that will be in the fans' minds. It will have cheap, 20-model boxed sets, it will come with all the Old World armies and new, like Nippon, and it will be on the same bases as WFB, and it will even let you use the old models you have. All of this because GW loves Old World and wants to Do Right By The Loyal Fans.

There is absolutely no way whatever GW will eventually produce will match this wishlist, and every major divergence (let's say, no charge redirecting), will be seen as a personal slight against the Loyal Fans.

I have no clue why they advertised it so early, it goes against every basic marketing idea.

Considering its been less than 3 days and people have already imagined the game in about half a dozen different scales (despite the fact that GW already showed a 28mm base and also said it was going to be to AoS what Horus Heresy is to 40K - which means SAME SCALE); I'm going to go out on a limb and say that when GW announced it wouldn't matter for those who will theory craft what it could be. Unless GW launched their first marketing release with the full game details people were always going to guess. Asides for which even if GW did release full details people would still argue that another approach is better (With variations of GW is doing ok with their idea all the way to "OMG its the worst idea ever I'm burning everything I own")

In the end GW has given this bit of news early to generate interest and hype as well as a warning shot to 9thage; Kings of War and all the rest. It's also a warning shot to Old World fans who might yet still have their old armies to hold onto them because in a few years something good might happen.

In the end most people seem pretty happy about it. Those who are negative are either those who are miss interpreting it as "It's the End of AoS" or "I hate GW Rules" which in fairness to GW if you hate GW rules then a new GW rules system doesn't really affect you as you're already not the target market.

Exactly this. They gave us next to nothing and some of us have spent the whole weekend speculating what this imaginary game might be. I just wish I could see as well into the lotterys future as I do with GW!

It's to keep people interested in the company. They have probably pushed AoS as far as they can with the audience they have. They know how well all the off shoot games have done/are doing. They know they have an untapped market of people that want to play classic WFB and are not spending money on their other games. For every person that is hating on the return of WFB right now, there is probably ten people about to blow a lot of money on KoW, because its the most logical choice of game to play for your WFB fix right now. Now instead of buying each new model release from mantic, people are going to be more weary about blowing large money until they know what this new WFB will bring.

They probably also hope some people get enticed with other new products they see as they refresh the news page repeatedly for the next 12 months.

I am actually surprised that this news hasn't taken over more of the groups tbh.


As for it being set in the old world exclusively, it would make sense to keep the new game small, at least while they do a 'test run' to see if its worth keeping it around. But that would cut out the lizardmen and dark elves, two ranges that already have a full range of minis, most of which are still new enough to still be in service one this gets here and has cross compatibility. I'd almost put money on ( If I wasn't saving all my money for this new game that is! ) that one of these two armies will the first thing they suggest collecting once they put a proper article out in some months time! Either army would tease well and they can encourage people to start painting a force now to get a head start on release, and oh, look! You can use them to get some AoS games in the meantime! Just pick up this selection of books and a couple of *AoS specific products* and you have an army that will keep you busy until WFBart 2 gets here!

It's almost set in stone they will start the game with Empire Vs Chaos, at some point of the timeline though. It just kind of makes sense. It's the classic match up and gives them the chance to remake a bunch of classic models and characters to really catch peoples eye.

IIRC, in KoW (which is the most popular FB replacement) the bases do not really matter, only the unit footprints. If they write the rules that way, then you can use whatever bases you like.

I don't think AoS has gone as far as it can go - its only really just getting steam under it. Early next year it will be all running 2.0 which basically means that for the first time in its life its a functional game. It's equivalent to a proper 1.0 release at launch - rules and structure wise.

AoS has had a bumpy, rocky stalled start but come next year when everything is running 2.0 it really should start to get even more steam behind it. No more "oh yeah you like the look of the game - ok but over half the armies you can't actually play right now" or "Oh that army looks neat but they could be squatted at any moment when GW updates the game."


Plus there's at least 3 years more AoS before we can even think of this new Old World game even appearing. That's 3 years in which GW will likely update several armies; add new models to others and introduce new armies into the game. It's even far enough that they might start playing with AoS 3.0 and adding new mechanics.

By that point in time we should have a very solid Warcry game; a very solid set of "apoc style rules". We might even see GW revive Skirmish as a proper full side game (though I think Warcry has stolen this). Heck by that stage I'd wager most armies would have one Underworld Warband and many might be heading toward a second warband (without being stormcast).

That's 3 more years of exclusive minis (that's at least 3 more non-stormcast minis potentially).



So yeah there's a LOT of AoS goodness in those 3 years. And that's just speculating on what GW has already shown us they are likely to do.

So, for those planning on re-rebasing your minis, what do you expect a pack of 10 20mm square bases to cost? $25?

I wouldn't rebase anything lol. GW really likes selling new models... most other recently resurrected games haven't been compatible with older models.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So, for those planning on re-rebasing your minis, what do you expect a pack of 10 20mm square bases to cost? $25?

Nope. Given this exists, alongside the Dark Uprising Cash Box of Cashing In:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Necromunda-Zone-Mortalis-Scenic-Bases-2019

35 bases (15 x 25mm, 15x32mm, 5x40mm), sculpted surfaces for $15.

For more standard bases, they're $40 for a pack of 100. (Which is honestly high, but not as high as I'd expect from GW).

 RiTides wrote:
I wouldn't rebase anything lol. GW really likes selling new models... most other recently resurrected games haven't been compatible with older models.

Whats funny is that they got rid of a ton of the older fantasy stuff recently. Not like entire ranges, but basic core units. Orc boys, dwarf warriors and quarrelers, high elf core units, etc. DE aren't doing too badly though. Honestly, I'd buy new dwarf warriors, if GW releases some in a couple years

 Overread wrote:

 auticus wrote:
My expectation is movement trays for their current lineup, and a game very similar to AOS that is built around CCG elements, buffs, and very very basic rules that will not really do it for me.

Set in the old world.

There's always the risk that they could make something you enjoy

I'm just saying thats my expectation. I don't think they have anyone on staff that knows how (or really wants to) to make a game that caters to anything other than the current gen of board game style gamers and a heavy pull from Magic: The gathering (in aesthetics as well as game mechanics)


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I have no clue why they advertised it so early, it goes against every basic marketing idea.

Its actually a brilliant idea because I have found though there are those that exist that will play multiple systems, those people are not common. At all.

People tend to want to stick to one game for a genre. (ie fantasy... one fantasy game... thats it). Thats hugely how it is in my region.

What this has done is made those people rethink getting into Kings of War or Conquest because they won't want to spend time or money or emotional investment in a system when they know they may just go back to a GW system (because the GW system will pull a larger player base, which is the #1 desire for many people... rules be damned).

I mean it seems odd the mention this so early in the development cycle with nothing to show or preview. I mean I get GW is probably trying to stuck it to Mantic. After all KoW 2nd edition dropped just as AoS started and they did make a push to steal all the old WHFB players.

Anyway, whatever happens don't expect it to be anything like the old WHFB, that's for darn sure.

I don't know anyone that played WHFB without using movement trays for anything that had more than two ranks, unless they were just being stubborn.

Most tournies I went to required movement trays.

So here is the great thing about the fact there's everything left. You see we can tell gw what we want with warhammer: the old world. This is actually probably the best course of events because we tell em what we want and they give it and get money. They can change literally anything with the game at this point. It's a win/win as far as I'm concerned.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So here is the great thing about the fact there's everything left. You see we can tell gw what we want with warhammer: the old world. This is actually probably the best course of events because we tell em what we want and they give it and get money. They can change literally anything with the game at this point. It's a win/win as far as I'm concerned.

Hopefully that was the intent, get it out so we can read what people think of a return to a square based game.

Obispudkenobi wrote:

Tyel wrote:
They've said its 3 years away. They can surely do whatever they like in terms of repackaging.

Trays seems the most likely way to go if the minis are going to be cross-compatible but in that case stoking square base nostalgia seems like something that will bite them later on.

It's not three years away, that's just a ruse, before the end of 2020

I agree on this one. It will be faster than three years.

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:

Obispudkenobi wrote:

Tyel wrote:
They've said its 3 years away. They can surely do whatever they like in terms of repackaging.

Trays seems the most likely way to go if the minis are going to be cross-compatible but in that case stoking square base nostalgia seems like something that will bite them later on.

It's not three years away, that's just a ruse, before the end of 2020

I agree on this one. It will be faster than three years.

It fascinates me that people think that gw would deliberately lie in a post that is currently pinned to the top of the community site and is being shared by sites that don’t usually cover warhammer, not to mention that lying to share holders really isn’t something that a publicly traded company should be doing.
When they say not soon, they aren’t kidding. If anything it will go the other way. The quote from the post is ‘three or more’
I would put money on a summer 2023 release date.
Look at the sisters announcement. It was 2019 emperor willing, and now here we are with the majority of the release coming in 2020.

It's just a guess it won't be three years. As they could have just said, we have a planned game, with square bases in the old world it's coming down the road, years from now but we wanted you to hear it from us.

They didn't say that, they said, " Oh my it won't be soon ! Will be at least, 2, 3 or even 4 ! years away, yeap, really not soon at all, nope nope nope. "

One is clear and to the point, the other sounds a bit like an over promised statement of time. " It's really far away I swear ! " statement.

As is, they I don't think they pulled sisters in 2019 outta the rear at all, they did say emperor willing. I think they always planned it to drop at the end of the year, to build up hype for the new year to reap in that post christmas cash. As well as drop the first parts towards end of the year like a..dare I say.." Miracle ! or Prayer fulfilled ! " Makes sense with the army involved.

I don't think they are grand masterminds but for model releases I think they are pretty on the ball with their planning. I doubt they dropped this announcement without a pretty clear idea of time frame and I doubt they said it like they did just to keep our expectations low. It feels more like a joke to me.

Now no one should think its just around the corner but I'd not be surprised if we hear it's not nearly as far away as they proclaimed either.

Most likely they just wanted to get ahead of the leak curve.

Theres no reason to get ahead of a leak if there is really nothing to leak which would be the case here.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

You'd have to have some pretty strong arguments to convince me GW would spend a couple years on a product, only for the end result to not be compatible with AoS in any aspect beside background

Same as Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Warcry, Shadespire, and the Horus Heresy

All kind of compatible with the main game, using same models for both.
But using the same Marines for Horus Heresy and 40k does not really work except for the very basic units.
Same for Shadespire or Warcry and AoS.

You can, up to a point, use the models from the smaller games in the main game, but not the other way around and no reason to expect it to be different with that game.

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:

Obispudkenobi wrote:

Tyel wrote:
They've said its 3 years away. They can surely do whatever they like in terms of repackaging.

Trays seems the most likely way to go if the minis are going to be cross-compatible but in that case stoking square base nostalgia seems like something that will bite them later on.

It's not three years away, that's just a ruse, before the end of 2020

I agree on this one. It will be faster than three years.

Yeah, maybe we see Beta-Test rules or some Teaser/Promo models early on to keep up the hype

But no chance that a full game is there earlier, not if GW want to make a starter Box for it (and looking for what price they can sell SG Boxes they want to make one for sure).
Just look at Sisters how long it took them doing it

This will be a new game with new models

There is no reason to use old Warhammer stuff or even current AoS models and make it easy to recycle your old collection.
This is still GW, they will do everything possible that you buy the shiny new models dedicated to the game (and of course buy similar but different ones for AoS).

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Even if you disagree with my read on that sentence, consistent scaling and rules systems make sense in general. This isn't really an extrapolation of anything GW said, just what feels like common sense. You'd have to have some pretty strong arguments to convince me GW would spend a couple years on a product, only for the end result to not be compatible with AoS in any aspect beside background.

The 2 don't fit aesthatically well together as it is. One is more grounded fantasy, other is over the top tuned up to 15(on scale of 1-12).


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 Shrapnelsmile wrote:

Obispudkenobi wrote:

Tyel wrote:
They've said its 3 years away. They can surely do whatever they like in terms of repackaging.

Trays seems the most likely way to go if the minis are going to be cross-compatible but in that case stoking square base nostalgia seems like something that will bite them later on.

It's not three years away, that's just a ruse, before the end of 2020

I agree on this one. It will be faster than three years.

That would mean they have been working it already year or two. If so why not actually show something? They showed with SOB way earlier in the development cycle then.

Just some theorising based on the very little we all have to go off and adding my 2 cents to the opinions already here.

First of all 28-32mm scale. Not sure why we're even debating a smaller scale. I'll eat an army rather than burn one if this is a smaller scale thing. :

They're cashing in on feels and nostalgia it would seem. (If I'm wrong about that all these theories go out the window).
So why would they appease the AoS demographic who already have a game? AoS is making GW money so it will continue. To me it seems like GW's way of bringing back lost gamers (income) who will buy nice looking new kits from a setting they know and love. 30k and 40k both exist in relative harmony. From the way they leaked it GW seem to want to have similar harmony between the two systems. Make no mistake AoS is GW's headliner at the moment and I don't see that changing. Just like 40k is more prominent than 30k. That doesn't mean that this new WFB nostalgia project/foray can't be as successful and as great as 30k is. Or hopefully better.

Would have to say if it's targeting nostalgia (which it seems to be for me) it would be silly for the game, minis and how it plays not to resemble in some solid way what it once was. Ranked infantry square bases and what not. I would not put it past GW to re hash AoS rules (which will be 3.0 at that point) to factor in ranked units with the odd old world rules flair. 3 years is a long time and play testing is a thing. If GW do it right like I think they did releasing 8th Ed 40K after 6th and 7th, I can see it working out well for all involved. Except those that choose to be unhappy whatever the outcome.

There is also the case for the whole bringing the Total War crowd in, which yeah they can do that with appeasing the old players pretty easily imo and by then I''m thinking a lot of the hype would have died down anyway. I think it's the cool looking models that hooks you more than anything.

Bottom line is it won't be AoS, it won't be the same as it was, but hey GW make good looking miniatures. Those not happy with what the new rules might be will get cool new minis from the old world. That is a certainty. They are a mini company and bottom line is that's what they will try to do; sell minis.

GW is expanding and they have money to work on projects like this now, this could be pretty big, but with what little we have now all we can do is theorise.

Now this is wishlisting but in my opinion this would make business sense.
Not that they will but I'd say there's a strong case for GW to bring back some of the old kits, especially the ones that are fairly new and GW have sunk substantial investment in. Ones that still look good. People will buy them, they still have the moulds why not sell them? Storage space is a problem as is production but they're expanding and in 3 years with the right prep this may not be an issue.
with a new/old system people will want minis to play it with, costs GW little (in design that is) to just make do with what they have/had. Then slowly drip feed new cooler stuff and replace the older stuff as things progress.
Although that is moot if they go for a different flair of the old world than what once was WHFB.


Big wishlist stuff but I actually think likely...

MORDHEIM

Hopefully before the three years or whatever the timeline is. Just to tease the old world and get all the nostalgia flowing freely.

Cautiously optimistic, but all we can do is make wild suggestions at this point.
Nothing is really set in stone yet.

From the way they leaked it GW seem to want to have similar harmony between the two systems

Well, they sure managed that. Pretty much every message board and social media platform this weekend looked like the deepest depths of 2015, with "hurr durr age of shitmar" posts or some variation thereof being in half the posts. WFB grogs hate AoS and everything that it represents to them, and will not let it rest. The reaction wasn't "oh yay, it's back" to many of them, it's "OH YAY EAT gak AOS".

So yeah, don't expect those two to exist in harmony, because one side of this equation spent near 5 years just marinading in gamer-hate.

tneva82 wrote:
The 2 don't fit aesthatically well together as it is. One is more grounded fantasy, other is over the top tuned up to 15(on scale of 1-12).

WFB was never grounded outside of the human factions. Sylvaneth, pretty much all of Chaos, orcs, goblins, most of the undead, new DoK units, Idoneth infantry - all those AoS releases would be right at home in WFB. And then there's the cover to Free Cities book that depicts a straight up Empire Greatsword.

People vastly overstate the aesthetic differences between WFB and AoS.

Cronch wrote:

From the way they leaked it GW seem to want to have similar harmony between the two systems

Well, they sure managed that. Pretty much every message board and social media platform this weekend looked like the deepest depths of 2015, with "hurr durr age of mar" posts or some variation thereof being in half the posts. WFB grogs hate AoS and everything that it represents to them, and will not let it rest. The reaction wasn't "oh yay, it's back" to many of them, it's "OH YAY EAT gak AOS".

So yeah, don't expect those two to exist in harmony, because one side of this equation spent near 5 years just marinading in gamer-hate.

I was more talking about GW keeping that harmony. Like the harmony between 40k and 30k, both existing as their own thing under GW.

I would never expect the same Harmony from the gamers. Hopefully it is a loud minority and the silent majority can be at peace with others who don't share their opinions...
Wait... this is the internet, and we're gamers, never mind.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
People vastly overstate the aesthetic differences between WFB and AoS.

Agreed, outside of some new stuff I'd say at the very least least half is transferable. Take some of the new 'chaos' stuff, for example. While it looks different, it would not be too far out of place in the old world. Bar a few wacky new additions maybe. Or stuff that didn't exist in old world lore to begin with but that still doesn't mean they're not transferable...

Cronch wrote:

From the way they leaked it GW seem to want to have similar harmony between the two systems

Well, they sure managed that. Pretty much every message board and social media platform this weekend looked like the deepest depths of 2015, with "hurr durr age of shitmar" posts or some variation thereof being in half the posts. WFB grogs hate AoS and everything that it represents to them, and will not let it rest. The reaction wasn't "oh yay, it's back" to many of them, it's "OH YAY EAT gak AOS".

So yeah, don't expect those two to exist in harmony, because one side of this equation spent near 5 years just marinading in gamer-hate.

I saw a ton of making fun of WHFB and its players, so its pretty much an equal opportunity knife-fest in that regard.

WFB players that hate AoS largely hate it because they invested thousands of dollars into a game and had it ripped out from under their feet in the middle of the night and replaced with a different game that had nothing to do with the game that drew them in the first place.

You'd get the same reaction from AOS players if AOS just stopped being AOS one day out of nowhere and became something else entirely. All that money and time on those models pretty much gone unless you happen to like the new game that came out.

And both sides are full of plenty of idiotic posts over the weekend.

"AOS is obviously dying thats why they are doing this" is as stupid as "WHFB couldn't sell and died, why are they bringing it back? Obviously no one wanted that game!" when there was a whole list of bullet points as to why GW wasn't making any money off of it (and hint: it wasn't because nobody was playing the game...)

nvm

If they repeat what they did for Middle Earth, they will re-release some old plastics, in new quantities in new boxes (with maybe a slight price reduction). Then they will produce a few character models in plastic. A new rulebook and a series of themed books, possibly centred around famous battles. I don't know much about design and production but that does not sound like a multi year commitment. So to my mind they must be thinking a bit more ambitiously. Boxed games with small forces are essentially skirmish, and they really seem to be hinting that this is mass battle.

My best guess would be a redone WHFB rulebook, they have always loved to release those. Maybe removing the "buy more figures" design that was built into 8th and ultimately killed it off. Perhaps returning to the unit sizes of earlier editions, when 20 was about the norm, 30 was big. That still sells lots of boxes of figures, which are pretty much 10 to a box these days. Perhaps starter sets for major battles, with some core stuff to get you going, with all the characters, artillery and other more specialised stuff released alongside. I would guess Empire and orcs would be a no-brainer, so maybe they will concentrate efforts on replacing some of the really old plastic kits, like orc boyz and Empire knights. Repeat for the other races and they have at least six books and twelve ranges they can repackage/extend the ranges.

I don' think there will be any crossover with AoS. The new steampunk dwarfs and the older more traditional beardy armoured guys just don't mix. The fish elves are just so different to High Elves. It's not just base shape that keeps them apart, so both sets of fans can be happy.

It's purely guesswork. I reckon we will get more news before the end of the year.

 Flying Pooo wrote:

I would never expect the same Harmony from the gamers. Hopefully it is a loud minority and the silent majority can be at peace with others who don't share their opinions...
Wait... this is the internet, and we're gamers, never mind.

It's a load of nonsense. 90% of the "hate" is feigned smugness as a bit of a pisstake, with some genuine sense of vindication in there. The other 10% are trolls and nutters, who're always there, and who're just as if not more prevalent among the AoS contingent.

Some folk are just desperate for their "zomg dumb grog crusty old boomer die already ded gaem" etc shtick to have some justification outside their own noggin, so they invent the Boogeygrog terrorising poor innocent AoS players

 Huginn wrote:

I don' think there will be any crossover with AoS. The new steampunk dwarfs and the older more traditional beardy armoured guys just don't mix.

Really, cause they'd fit in pretty well with the Engineer Guilds' younger members who are responsible for the wackier contraptions that the Ol' Grumblers disliked.

The fish elves are just so different to High Elves.

Once again, they're not "fish elves". There's also literally nothing preventing them from having existed, seeing as how Mathlaan(the Idoneth's deity) was around in The World That Was as well.


All that aside, maybe just maybe this is why a bunch of the old/outdated-ish plastics went away? Glade Guard desperately needed a refresher, as did the Glade Riders.