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So far I do kind of like that the game will be limited in scope. It will allow for more specific sub-factions. Especially in an area of the old world that we kinda know stuff about, but nothing too crazy.

 Just Tony wrote:
So catching up on this thread from my last reply brings me to one conclusion:

I was wrong, there IS a precedent for bear cavalry units for Kislev.


That being said, I have to make two offhand comments:

1. I sincerely forgot Citadel Journal was a thing, and now I'm wondering how many lovely 6th Ed. pieces of gaming material I missed out on.

http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-citadel-compendiums.html

http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-citadel-journals.html

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Wunzlez wrote:
I think GW has a difficult task ahead with the Old World. As others have said the uncertainty is awkward and when we get paragraphs like this:

The Old World is to Warhammer Age of Sigmar, as the Horus Heresy is to Warhammer 40,000. The bedrock of lore from which mortals rose to godhood and legends were forged. And like the Horus Heresy, seeing those mythic heroes in action has an undeniable appeal, as does re-creating the glorious armies of a previous epoch – an exciting proposition for hobbyists and gamers alike. And now, we have a dedicated team in the Warhammer Studio beginning the work of bringing all that awesome back to the tabletop.

I just had a vision of 54mm AOS characters playing 6mm WFB games.

Think of the unique dynamic as you the player issue an order to Stormcast Phred to move his bear cavalry to flank FyrSyr Phrank's Night Goblins.

Roll against Phred's stubbornness score to see if he obeys, then apply his die-rolling skill to see if the attack succeeds which your opponent rolls against Phrank's Strategy Rating to see if he moves up his reinforcement.

The possibilities are endless!

Don't forget having to roll on a chart to see what chart you're going to be rolling on.

 Just Tony wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Wunzlez wrote:
I think GW has a difficult task ahead with the Old World. As others have said the uncertainty is awkward and when we get paragraphs like this:

The Old World is to Warhammer Age of Sigmar, as the Horus Heresy is to Warhammer 40,000. The bedrock of lore from which mortals rose to godhood and legends were forged. And like the Horus Heresy, seeing those mythic heroes in action has an undeniable appeal, as does re-creating the glorious armies of a previous epoch – an exciting proposition for hobbyists and gamers alike. And now, we have a dedicated team in the Warhammer Studio beginning the work of bringing all that awesome back to the tabletop.

I just had a vision of 54mm AOS characters playing 6mm WFB games.

Think of the unique dynamic as you the player issue an order to Stormcast Phred to move his bear cavalry to flank FyrSyr Phrank's Night Goblins.

Roll against Phred's stubbornness score to see if he obeys, then apply his die-rolling skill to see if the attack succeeds which your opponent rolls against Phrank's Strategy Rating to see if he moves up his reinforcement.

The possibilities are endless!

Don't forget having to roll on a chart to see what chart you're going to be rolling on.

On a 999 or 1000, roll on the mutation chart in the Warhammer World exclusive Realm of Chaos books.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Wunzlez wrote:
I think GW has a difficult task ahead with the Old World. As others have said the uncertainty is awkward and when we get paragraphs like this:

The Old World is to Warhammer Age of Sigmar, as the Horus Heresy is to Warhammer 40,000. The bedrock of lore from which mortals rose to godhood and legends were forged. And like the Horus Heresy, seeing those mythic heroes in action has an undeniable appeal, as does re-creating the glorious armies of a previous epoch – an exciting proposition for hobbyists and gamers alike. And now, we have a dedicated team in the Warhammer Studio beginning the work of bringing all that awesome back to the tabletop.

I just had a vision of 54mm AOS characters playing 6mm WFB games.

Think of the unique dynamic as you the player issue an order to Stormcast Phred to move his bear cavalry to flank FyrSyr Phrank's Night Goblins.

Roll against Phred's stubbornness score to see if he obeys, then apply his die-rolling skill to see if the attack succeeds which your opponent rolls against Phrank's Strategy Rating to see if he moves up his reinforcement.

The possibilities are endless!

Don't forget having to roll on a chart to see what chart you're going to be rolling on.

On a 999 or 1000, roll on the mutation chart in the Warhammer World exclusive Realm of Chaos books.

Apply a -150 modifier if you physically twirl your moustache.

I wonder where this is going to go. GW can either knock this out of park or it will fizzle out. It depends which races they support. If they support the secondary and tertiary races like kislev, nippon, cathay and araby and don't include some of the famous races like high elves, dwarfs, lizardmen, etc then I don't expect this to last long. Surely GW know it is the races that made Total War Warhammer such a success. People don't want asian humans, slavic humans, indian humans, etc. I remember when Kislev were supported, they were never as popular as the main races. Even when it was acceptable to proxy Kislev models with Empire rules they were still very very rare.

Anything less than all 16 of the original races would be a disaster because they are what makes the WHFB setting what it is. It would be like making a 30k Horus Heresy game but basing on what the Eldar were doing at that time, or leaving whole chapters or primarchs out.

16 out of the gate - or even soon thereafter - is probably too much to wish for.

I can see it being Kislev + Empire, Orcs & Goblins, Chaos (yes, that's a lot in of itself right there) and...Elves?...to start.

Then, if it is successful, adding in Skaven and Undead (Vampires - sorry Tomb Kings).

After that, if there's anything left in the tank...who knows?

I'd honestly expect the 'initial launch' to be something akin to what Chaosbane has for races:
-Chaos(Daemons, Beasts, and Warriors are all fairly well supported with plastic kits right now)
-Empire and Kislev
-Dwarfs
-High Elves
-Token Wood Elf presence

Man, I’m on the other side. I want Kislev, Araby, Nippon and Cathay. GW already have models for those other races (although they might need to dust off some molds)—they can wait to reinvent the dwarf for the fourth time, and give us something new that still fits that Old World.

Do you think we'd get elves? This is set 500ish years prior to the original setting. Were elves actively away from Ulthuan at the time? Personally, I'm hoping we'll get more dwarfs before we get elves. (Unless we get a fantasy style dwarf faction in AOS, akin to the Lumineth. Then I'd be fine waiting)

I would be very surprised to not see elves.

GaroRobe wrote:
Do you think we'd get elves? This is set 500ish years prior to the original setting. Were elves actively away from Ulthuan at the time? Personally, I'm hoping we'll get more dwarfs before we get elves. (Unless we get a fantasy style dwarf faction in AOS, akin to the Lumineth. Then I'd be fine waiting)

We've gotten two Dwarf factions in AoS.

Anyways:

If you look up on the map there, you can see the Laurelorn Forest. There's an Asrai community there, which Chaosbane has now fluffed as having sent a contingent of Waywatchers to act as scouts for Magnus' army(which is the time period that this is supposed to be sent in) not long after the battles in Kislev.
And yeah, the Elves were away from Ulthuan. Teclis was sent to train humans in magic as the High Elves believed that if men fell, there'd be issues and whatnots for the Elves.

The understanding I have at the moment is that we're looking at the Great War Against Chaos as the timeframe for this. There's room for Dwarfs, Elves, Humans, and Chaos of all sorts.

Huh, there's a sea between Norsca and the Chaos wastes now. I like it.

Alpharius wrote:16 out of the gate - or even soon thereafter - is probably too much to wish for.

How many factions need units replaced or redone?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Man, I’m on the other side. I want Kislev, Araby, Nippon and Cathay.

I'd settle for Estalia and Tilea.

 Vermis wrote:
Huh, there's a sea between Norsca and the Chaos wastes now. I like it.

Alpharius wrote:16 out of the gate - or even soon thereafter - is probably too much to wish for.

How many factions need units replaced or redone?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Man, I’m on the other side. I want Kislev, Araby, Nippon and Cathay.

I'd settle for Estalia and Tilea.

There always has been afaik, it's just the map didn't go north of Norsca when it was drawn. Only rarely when you got wider scoped maps did you see the sea of chaos - which I believe is generally covered in pack ice anyway

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8d/4b/9c/8d4b9ce5ebb33ec7ccfb5ba278038e5a.jpg

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Man, I’m on the other side. I want Kislev, Araby, Nippon and Cathay. GW already have models for those other races (although they might need to dust off some molds)—they can wait to reinvent the dwarf for the fourth time, and give us something new that still fits that Old World.

I doubt we'd get them, all maps and teasers indicate it's Empire based, but yeah, I would have loved to see GW do a fantasy faction grounded in India, the Arabian peninsula or somewhere else far afield. Even China and Japan would be a nice change even though others have covered that ground.

The main problem is that while Japanese folks don't seem to mind their history, myth and religion being mined for fantasy material (and do quite a bit of it themselves) people in other parts of the world react... let's just say vigorously and enthusiastically to some portrayals.

And then we have the Lizard Man, visually referring to Pre-Columbian America but with names like Tik Tak Toe and Grimloque, which shows about the extent of scholarship GW has put into their non-European factions. So it might be for the best if we don't see Cathay, Yind and Nippon.

Given this project is called "The old world" and the map cover "the old World" I think its a safe bet to think its based in "the old World".

Looks like an obvious focus on norsca compared to older maps, for what its worth.
Perhaps well se an obvious GoT rip of with northen barbarians trying to ally with Empire and Kislev against the northen chaos invasion, and the rest of the Empire stuggle with petty civil war grabs for power.
The twist beeing the Norscan commander supported by the empire is really young Archaon

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Man, I’m on the other side. I want Kislev, Araby, Nippon and Cathay. GW already have models for those other races (although they might need to dust off some molds)—they can wait to reinvent the dwarf for the fourth time, and give us something new that still fits that Old World.

I doubt we'd get them, all maps and teasers indicate it's Empire based, but yeah, I would have loved to see GW do a fantasy faction grounded in India, the Arabian peninsula or somewhere else far afield. Even China and Japan would be a nice change even though others have covered that ground.

The main problem is that while Japanese folks don't seem to mind their history, myth and religion being mined for fantasy material (and do quite a bit of it themselves) people in other parts of the world react... let's just say vigorously and enthusiastically to some portrayals.

And then we have the Lizard Man, visually referring to Pre-Columbian America but with names like Tik Tak Toe and Grimloque, which shows about the extent of scholarship GW has put into their non-European factions. So it might be for the best if we don't see Cathay, Yind and Nippon.

I would like the crusade period set in Estalia and Araby, but in today's culture that might "not go to well" with some people.

I think most of the original characters names for all factions were "tongue in cheek". Like that german looking guy with the black helmet, [German Name] Black-helmet (in german).

Not to say that we shouldn't take racism seriously, but everything can and will be taken the wrong way.

 Fayric wrote:
Given this project is called "The old world" and the map cover "the old World" I think its a safe bet to think its based in "the old World".

I agree, just one thing. I thought the Old World referred to, y'know, the world. Did it only refer to WHFB Europe?

Looks like an obvious focus on norsca compared to older maps, for what its worth.
Perhaps well se an obvious GoT rip of with northen barbarians trying to ally with Empire and Kislev against the northen chaos invasion, and the rest of the Empire stuggle with petty civil war grabs for power.
The twist beeing the Norscan commander supported by the empire is really young Archaon

I like that idea a lot.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
Given this project is called "The old world" and the map cover "the old World" I think its a safe bet to think its based in "the old World".

I agree, just one thing. I thought the Old World referred to, y'know, the world. Did it only refer to WHFB Europe?

Looks like an obvious focus on norsca compared to older maps, for what its worth.
Perhaps well se an obvious GoT rip of with northen barbarians trying to ally with Empire and Kislev against the northen chaos invasion, and the rest of the Empire stuggle with petty civil war grabs for power.
The twist beeing the Norscan commander supported by the empire is really young Archaon

I like that idea a lot.

The old world in original wfb/wfrp was just fantasy Europe. Its a literal reference to the Eurocentric view of everywhere else being the new world.

Another thing, and this is very obvious and discussed ad nauseam I know, but I hope they stick to the less overworked details of models past.

One of the reasons I quite like the Gloomspite Gitz from AOS is, barring a few overly-detailed monstrosities, most of their range has kept to a decent, elegant standard of not being drowned in the noise of excessive detail. The old night gobbos are the same models of course, but the stone trolls (only slightly more reworked than the old metals), the squig herds and hoppers, would fit in fine in a WHFB army I think.

As an example, I'm currently doing a commission paintjob for the Blackstone Fortress set, and while I like the traitor guard and beastmen of that set, the level of detail is a bit exhausting at times. Especially when I compare them to models like the Ur-ghul from the same set, where a simple and effective paint-scheme (which is also much harder to mess up) looks just as good, if not better, than the ones I've spent ages on because of the detail.

Some of that might be because of it being a board-game where you focus on only a few models at a time, but that's just an example. Stormcast Liberators are space-marine levels of smooth and simple, for the most part, but other models in their army are more exhausting and have become so over time.

It's like a director who can't help abusing CGI because of the 'wow' factor and ease (at least from a directing perspective) of taking something from imagination into reality. But not every imagined idea is a good one and CGI serves a perfectly good function, but can be jarring in the wrong place if overused.

Dunno which maps I've been looking at, now.

 Wunzlez wrote:
Another thing, and this is very obvious and discussed ad nauseam I know, but I hope they stick to the less overworked details of models past.

But, but, but, being rolled in spikes and filigree and greebling and glitter is how you tell a mini's good!

And then we have the Lizard Man, visually referring to Pre-Columbian America but with names like Tik Tak Toe and Grimloque, which shows about the extent of scholarship GW has put into their non-European factions. So it might be for the best if we don't see Cathay, Yind and Nippon.

There are joke names throughout warhammer and 40k - it was part of the original theme.

see also: https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gossippa_Lotta

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Long_Drong

I just can't believe how forward GW are these days in letting everyone know of their plans.

It wasn't that long ago that it would have been two days before a release: some brave guy in Poland had taken a blurred picture of White Dwarf while in a toilet cubicle, or Beasts of War had some crudely hand drawn copy of something that had been leaked as they were trying to share what they knew without being sued.

I definitely think it is a change for the better.

 Pacific wrote:
I just can't believe how forward GW are these days in letting everyone know of their plans.

GW went through a phase of top management wanting to control their company and market. I think it was spurred on by Movie-style secrecy as well when they picked up Lord of the Rings. IT's also reinforced by some of their own internal company divisions of teams. When AoS came out it was a shock to many people in key teams at the GW offices - that's bad practice considering that many of them were working on or toward Old World projects and interests at the same time.

There was also the fact that GW back then did not like the internet. They'd tried and they'd missmanaged and had their own forums turn into a trollish hellfire. So whilst everyone else was jumping on twitter, youtube and facebook - GW was running the other way. The management changes have turned those around to an insane level to the point where now GW is happy to have 7 days of online marketing every week; to where they've run twitch streams every DAY during lockdown near enough; to where they've invested in an intenral video studio of their own.


I think also it was about realising that White Dwarf had value beyond just being a product catalogue. That they could put content in there and improve it beyond making it valuable as a product to sell their advertising of the latest game releases. That was another big change - because WD does generate profits for them so I figure part of their earlier approach was trying to protect that income by seeing it as being popular purely for the preview articles. A shift in attitude and now preview articles are free online.

 Fayric wrote:
The twist beeing the Norscan commander supported by the empire is really young Archaon

Archaon isn't Norscan. A young Archaon would still be an acolyte of the Templars.

Isn't the sea one of the reasons that the Norse are less chaotic?

If it is Great War Against Chaos, I suspect that there should be quite a few human factions. And if they want to do slightly different Dwarfs, the Norse Dwarfs are right slap bang in the middle of things.

Chaos, Norse, Norse Dwarfs, Empire (Several factions), Kislev.

Warcry seems to be showning that just having variations of human factions works OK. As did Mordheim. And that map stops short of Khemri.

 Graphite wrote:
Isn't the sea one of the reasons that the Norse are less chaotic?

If it is Great War Against Chaos, I suspect that there should be quite a few human factions. And if they want to do slightly different Dwarfs, the Norse Dwarfs are right slap bang in the middle of things.

Chaos, Norse, Norse Dwarfs, Empire (Several factions), Kislev.

Warcry seems to be showning that just having variations of human factions works OK. As did Mordheim. And that map stops short of Khemri.

Hoping for another cameo by Genevieve Dieudonné as she is about and met Magnus the Pious (apparently he tried to put his hand up her dress)

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

And then we have the Lizard Man, visually referring to Pre-Columbian America but with names like Tik Tak Toe and Grimloque, which shows about the extent of scholarship GW has put into their non-European factions. So it might be for the best if we don't see Cathay, Yind and Nippon.

Why though? Lizardmen are cool, and their portrayal is no more or less slapdash than Albion's or Bretonnia's are of Celtic Britain or Arthurian England/France - should I be up in arms about the faction that draws from my culture depicting them as primitive morons too stupid to read or write and gets half the mythology "wrong"? Even if I were to take that attitude, GW should absolutely ignore me. A lot of the people who were working for GW when stuff like Lizardmen were created were huge history buffs, I'd be willing to bet they knew more about Pre-Columbian America than 99% of the people who would criticise them for Lizardmen do, they did stuff like Tik Tak Toe because it's a bit of fun.

Crikey when did puns become verboten?

Self-censorship to avoid the bawling of culture warriors who are never going to buy your product regardless of how much you appease them isn't "for the best".

 Yodhrin wrote:


Crikey when did puns become verboten?

Hopefully never.

There was one city on the map that made me chuckle but I can't remember how it was spelt.

Spoken out loud it was 'cheesy wotsit'.

Graphite wrote:Isn't the sea one of the reasons that the Norse are less chaotic?

All this time I wondered why the norscans had any kind of distinctiveness when everything north of troll country was warpdust-coated crazy nutso Chaos territory, and why they weren't just typical spiky chaos warriors and marauders. That there was an extra sea there all this time, cutting Norsca off, helps explain it. Still Chaos influenced, but not swamped.

Interested to see a bit more about norse dwarfs too.