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Cathay and Kislev...well, that will surely bring new units never seen before in WFB.

I'm really curious about what they will do with Cathay though !

jullevi wrote:
I am still not convinced that choosing armies that hardly existed as posterboys for game based on nostalgy values is a good idea but I hope it goes well.

TW: Three Kingdoms sold stupid well in China, they're probably banking on that momentum. Model wise it might be GW's attempt to get a foot into that market.

Actual Cathay, as actual models, I'm actually stunned. Actually.

Okay so that must surely confirm that TOW is going to be a full-on third "main game" then, right? If they're actually developing a complete Cathay army from scratch that's a huge commitment, even moreso than "just" fleshing out Kislev. Jesus, this opens up so much possibility - they could do Araby. They could do bloody Ind.

Assuming, of course, it's not so hideously expensive to collect an army that it flops

jullevi wrote:
I am still not convinced that choosing armies that hardly existed as posterboys for game based on nostalgy values is a good idea but I hope it goes well.

It's almost as if they succeeded and got all the nostalgia out with the first dozen races from 1 & 2...

 Orodhen wrote:

jullevi wrote:
I am still not convinced that choosing armies that hardly existed as posterboys for game based on nostalgy values is a good idea but I hope it goes well.

It's almost as if they succeeded and got all the nostalgia out with the first dozen races from 1 & 2...

Yeah, it's worth remembering these 'sequels' are more like standalone expansion packs than truly new games.

The choice of Kislev and Cathay basically also confirms Ogres, representing the Eurasian inbetween.

Monkey men please


(its fan art)

 Yodhrin wrote:
Actual Cathay, as actual models, I'm actually stunned. Actually.

Okay so that must surely confirm that TOW is going to be a full-on third "main game" then, right? If they're actually developing a complete Cathay army from scratch that's a huge commitment, even moreso than "just" fleshing out Kislev. Jesus, this opens up so much possibility - they could do Araby. They could do bloody Ind.

Assuming, of course, it's not so hideously expensive to collect an army that it flops

They haven’t confirmed Cathay for TOW tabletop game though.

Danny76 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Actual Cathay, as actual models, I'm actually stunned. Actually.

Okay so that must surely confirm that TOW is going to be a full-on third "main game" then, right? If they're actually developing a complete Cathay army from scratch that's a huge commitment, even moreso than "just" fleshing out Kislev. Jesus, this opens up so much possibility - they could do Araby. They could do bloody Ind.

Assuming, of course, it's not so hideously expensive to collect an army that it flops

They haven’t confirmed Cathay for TOW tabletop game though.

If they’re doing all the design work though, it seems pretty likely.

Nice to see that the Money Bags with their hidebound corporate truisms have been proven wrong. That the world of Warhammer Fantasy itself is still a viable intellectual product, and that it was their greed that killed it.

Guess the old farts at GeeDubs central didn't think some silly vidya game could appeal so many people.

I'd really be into a re-imagined old world with a stronger focus on dark fantasy quasi-historical factions ... the Empire vs. Ruinous Powers etc. always felt like the most distinct WHFB thing, and honestly I'm much more into Cow Elves & Steampunk Sky Dwarves now than the rather tame WHFB Tolkien ripoffs. Well, we'll see, but I think there's enough potential in WH Fantasy for two settings.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Actual Cathay, as actual models, I'm actually stunned. Actually.

Okay so that must surely confirm that TOW is going to be a full-on third "main game" then, right? If they're actually developing a complete Cathay army from scratch that's a huge commitment, even moreso than "just" fleshing out Kislev. Jesus, this opens up so much possibility - they could do Araby. They could do bloody Ind.

Assuming, of course, it's not so hideously expensive to collect an army that it flops

My knowledge of WHFB lore is quite limited, but aren't Cathay outside of "The Old World"?

Lots of people here have been speculating that it'll just be something that focuses on "The Old World" part of the setting because that's the name and it would mean a smaller scope, even though GW has used that term to refer to the WHFB setting as a whole. So having a faction that we have only had brief mentions of now turned into a full army, a faction that's also outside of "The Old World" part of the setting and doesn't even appear on the map they've shown us for the project, sort of goes against that idea doesn't it? It can't be a project that'll be - in terms of faction options compared to WHFB - a relatively small thing that will stay within those bounds of just one part of the setting, otherwise we wouldn't be getting an army that's outside of that location and entirely new. If it is]a relatively small project like some have suggested then choosing them over one of the iconic factions would be a very strange choice.

I can't actually see anything in that article that outright says Cathay will be part of TOW rather than just TW:W3 so maybe that's not the case though - but it's the GW studio who have done the concepts and such, so it would be odd if it was just for TW:W3.

I can't find it now, but I swear there was some cool lore about Cathay during the End Times. Something like jade dragon/tiger statues coming to life, lots of gunpowder weapons, etc.

Also, doesn't Cathay more or less worship Tzeentch, but they're not like super Chaos-y?

I think the name refers to the whole World-That-Was, as in the AOS is the current world and this is the old one. It just sound better than The-World-We-Fools-Blew-Up-But-Ups-The-Games-Make-Moolah-So-Here-It-Is-Again.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
The back down continues

No, I’m definitely ded. Because Cathay.

Have they shown any art or fluff developed for Cathay ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GaroRobe wrote:
I can't find it now, but I swear there was some cool lore about Cathay during the End Times. Something like jade dragon/tiger statues coming to life, lots of gunpowder weapons, etc.

Also, doesn't Cathay more or less worship Tzeentch, but they're not like super Chaos-y?

In some novels, Cathay has a Dragon King. In some, a Monkey King. I thought the idea that Cathay worshipped Tzeentch came from a Tzeentch cultist, and was likely a lie.

I’d be pretty disappointed if the whole kingdom of Cathay were ineffectual chaos worshippers.

There has been bits and pieces of Cathay lore drip fed to us - great to see more

* They sold gunpowder weapons to Lahmia before Neferata became queen, Neferata went there later with her favourite handmaiden and they had to flee.
* They had magic based on the five elements (including wood),
* Geneiveve went there and learnt some magic and martial arts
* They explored much of the world in large fleets
* Several worshippers of Tzeentch came from there - he is known as (IIRC) Tsein-Tsien.

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:
Nice to see that the Money Bags with their hidebound corporate truisms have been proven wrong. That the world of Warhammer Fantasy itself is still a viable intellectual product, and that it was their greed that killed it.

Guess the old farts at GeeDubs central didn't think some silly vidya game could appeal so many people.

They're getting royalties with minimum work on their own side...

 Mr Morden wrote:
There has been bits and pieces of Cathay lore drip fed to us

I seem to recall Eshin having some ties to Cathay as well.

What was that about total war not being enough of a draw to warrant the old world being a full tabletop system and being skirmish only that was endlessly bandied about in this thread a few pages ago?

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:

I think the name refers to the whole World-That-Was, as in the AOS is the current world and this is the old one. It just sound better than The-World-We-Fools-Blew-Up-But-Ups-The-Games-Make-Moolah-So-Here-It-Is-Again.

It does not refer to "the whole World That Was".

"The World That Was" is the narrative reference within The Mortal Realms to the entirety of the old Warhammer setting. The Old World is a specific chunk of that setting, like how The New World contained Lustria and Naggaroth and was basically an analogue for the Americas.

So far we have seen nothing actually pointing towards leaving that setting of The Old World.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
There has been bits and pieces of Cathay lore drip fed to us

I seem to recall Eshin having some ties to Cathay as well.

Indeed

Interesting regions on the map - Gunpowder Road, Warpstone desert - need to check if these are new

Danny76 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Actual Cathay, as actual models, I'm actually stunned. Actually.

Okay so that must surely confirm that TOW is going to be a full-on third "main game" then, right? If they're actually developing a complete Cathay army from scratch that's a huge commitment, even moreso than "just" fleshing out Kislev. Jesus, this opens up so much possibility - they could do Araby. They could do bloody Ind.

Assuming, of course, it's not so hideously expensive to collect an army that it flops

They haven’t confirmed Cathay for TOW tabletop game though.

I'm fairly certain they wouldn't post a video with Andy Hoare and Mark Bedford discussing how the concept development pipeline for TOW feeds directly into what we'll see in TWWH3 that explicitly mentioned Cathay unless they intended to indicate they were developing Cathay for TOW in the same way they have Kislev. That would be a huge PR own-goal, as evidenced by the amount of people getting hype for Cathay models.

 Olthannon wrote:
What was that about total war not being enough of a draw to warrant the old world being a full tabletop system and being skirmish only that was endlessly bandied about in this thread a few pages ago?

Make some quotes, because most of the posts have been saying it would be a Specialist Game--i.e. Horus Heresy, Adeptus Titanicus, Necromunda, or Blood Bowl.

Two of those(Adeptus Titanicus and Horus Heresy) are far from "skirmish only".

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I’d be pretty disappointed if the whole kingdom of Cathay were ineffectual chaos worshippers.

I don't think they necessarily would have to be ineffectual. An advanced, functional culture influenced by the Chaos Gods would be an interesting contrast to the Empire.

Not that there's any chance of Cathay being portrayed as anything but the most obvious good guys.

 Yodhrin wrote:

I'm fairly certain they wouldn't post a video with Andy Hoare and Mark Bedford discussing how the concept development pipeline for TOW feeds directly into what we'll see in TWWH3 that explicitly mentioned Cathay unless they intended to indicate they were developing Cathay for TOW in the same way they have Kislev. That would be a huge PR own-goal, as evidenced by the amount of people getting hype for Cathay models.

Cool, so when do Wanderers get Great Stag Knights?

Concepts being made in conjunction with TWWH3 does not mean that models are guaranteed.

 Esmer wrote:
The choice of Kislev and Cathay basically also confirms Ogres, representing the Eurasian inbetween.

I agree, but the real question is whether they'll be playable on release or if they'll just be an NPC faction until a DLC makes them playable.

I also wonder what CA's plans are for Chaos Dwarfs, seeing as they also occupy the East and are one of the few WHFB factions remaining that hasn't been realized in a TW. I hope they're not just gone forever.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

I'm fairly certain they wouldn't post a video with Andy Hoare and Mark Bedford discussing how the concept development pipeline for TOW feeds directly into what we'll see in TWWH3 that explicitly mentioned Cathay unless they intended to indicate they were developing Cathay for TOW in the same way they have Kislev. That would be a huge PR own-goal, as evidenced by the amount of people getting hype for Cathay models.

Cool, so when do Wanderers get Great Stag Knights?

Concepts being made in conjunction with TWWH3 does not mean that models are guaranteed.

I get your point, but when has ANYTHING from Total Warhammer been given to AOS? They've clearly stated that the upcoming Old World art/models inspired TWWH3. There's a huge difference, given that it's two entirely different settings. It's like looking at the Vampire Coast stuff and asking "Where are all the giant crabs in Legions of Nagash?"

This thread is for Warhammer the Old World, not the computer game Total War. Take the chatter about TTW3 to its own thread where it belongs.

 ingtaer wrote:

This thread is for Warhammer the Old World, not the computer game Total War. Take the chatter about TTW3 to its own thread where it belongs.

question:

What about discussion relating to the fact that the two are closely linked. Namely the fact that most of the units shown for kislev in the trailer are things we have seen in concept art for W:TOW? and permutations of such relating to potential miniature releases for Cathay, for instance?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

I'm fairly certain they wouldn't post a video with Andy Hoare and Mark Bedford discussing how the concept development pipeline for TOW feeds directly into what we'll see in TWWH3 that explicitly mentioned Cathay unless they intended to indicate they were developing Cathay for TOW in the same way they have Kislev. That would be a huge PR own-goal, as evidenced by the amount of people getting hype for Cathay models.

Cool, so when do Wanderers get Great Stag Knights?

Concepts being made in conjunction with TWWH3 does not mean that models are guaranteed.

As far as we know, the arrangement with the prior Total Warhammer games was the same as it always has been with licensed GW projects - they come up with concepts, they send them to GW for approval, changes, or denial, and they work with whatever that process allows them to work with.

The whole point of the video, it seems to me, is to indicate that for TWWH3 that process has been somewhat turned on its head, and instead GW themselves are directly generating concepts as part of their work on TOW which are then being passed on to Creative Assembly to make use of. Said video makes no distinction between Kislev and Cathay in relation to that process. Hoare didn't literally turn dead-on to the camera and say "Miniatures for Cathay will be coming on September 4th 2023, or I'll be on the dole." but what other reason is there - except being complete numpties - to discuss Cathay alongside Kislev in the extra video that's explicitly about the TOW development process feeding into TWWH3, if not to indicate they're developing Cathay for TOW as well?