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2021/07/21 21:56:08
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
yukishiro1 wrote: I'm pretty sure they'll be selling official Games Workshop branded movement trays at 3x the normal price so you can use your round based models with the new system. I wouldn't worry too much about that angle, not even GW is going to think it's a good idea to create some system that requires you to rip your models off their bases every time you want to switch them between AOS and Old World.
I'd think they're thinking would be buy both instead of facilitating swapping back and forth.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2021/07/21 21:58:29
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
yukishiro1 wrote: I'm pretty sure they'll be selling official Games Workshop branded movement trays at 3x the normal price so you can use your round based models with the new system. I wouldn't worry too much about that angle, not even GW is going to think it's a good idea to create some system that requires you to rip your models off their bases every time you want to switch them between AOS and Old World.
I suspect they simply won't care. The longer AOS goes on, the more it diverges from it's WHFB roots, the more new races with no links/heavily different styles are added (Idoneth, Kruleboyz, Lumineth etc). As time goes on the old WHFB players playing AOS with original Fantasy models also drops. Thus the % of cross compatible models being used drops year on year and the people using them do so as well. You might find the odd madman trying to play Bretonnians using the AOS1 rules but they're going to be a minority of a minority and will likely just move back to TOW anyway.
When you look at it this way it suits GWtbh, as if it goes perfectly for them they'll have two distinct fantasy playerbases, covering both the old school rank and file lot and also the new style high fantasy 40k style gaming fans, thus covering all fantasy bases within miniature gaming while offering two quite different experiences. I certainly don't expect to find dual AOS/TOW players using shared units between the two universes, being a large % of the TOW fanbase by 2023. Those that do exist will be faced with the prospects of rebasing or having to buy all new TOW models, which suits GW just fine.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/07/21 22:05:57
2021/07/21 22:00:13
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
lord_blackfang wrote: Really what is the playerbase here? I can't imagine there being a lot of grognards left who haven't either rebased their army or set it on fire.
Lots of 9th Age folks
2021/07/21 22:01:15
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Gimgamgoo wrote: I love the part of the article that has GW accepting that 10mm and 15mm are scales. But won't commit to saying what actual scale their models are.
Lol.
Wonder which they'd call it now? 25/28/32/35mm.
That is proprietary and trademarked. Better off not knowing… /s
lord_blackfang wrote: Really what is the playerbase here? I can't imagine there being a lot of grognards left who haven't either rebased their army or set it on fire.
Lots of 9th Age folks
I have my stuff stashed, was considering turning boar boys into a 40k unit or three. Now that can wait…
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/21 22:23:23
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2021/07/21 22:28:24
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
yukishiro1 wrote: I'm pretty sure they'll be selling official Games Workshop branded movement trays at 3x the normal price so you can use your round based models with the new system. I wouldn't worry too much about that angle, not even GW is going to think it's a good idea to create some system that requires you to rip your models off their bases every time you want to switch them between AOS and Old World.
I'd think they're thinking would be buy both instead of facilitating swapping back and forth.
Oh, I'm positive they will be releasing different ranges for each one, to try to get you to buy both. There's zero chance you'll be able to use your Idoneth or Stormcast in the Old World game, or that you'll be able to use Kislev in AOS. But for the models they specifically called out as being usable in both, I can't imagine they're really going to go out of their way to make it hard to play with round bases.
2021/07/21 22:30:07
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
My major gripe is the magic system, hopefully they will look closer to AoS. I would LOVE to use a Burning Head in TOW, even if it is just scenery, because cool (hotness?) factor.
The setting is something I still want to see, but positively hopeful: if this takes place centuries before The End Times, Lizardmen's range is completely unscratched, except Lord Kroak, who should get a small plastic version of himself if they want to make plastic Slanns, so they can be optionally build as him, and maybe as Mazdamundi, and, who knows? maybe even make them compatible with the default Stegadons, so they can finally mount one without kitbashing!
Oh, yeah, about the presence of Lizardmen? Well, that I don't know for sure, but if they bring back all the plastic squats from AoS, from TK to HE, I would expect to see the entire world. They still have to have those moulds around.
That being said, no Karl Franz and Deathclaw on monster bases (amongst many other characters alive in 8E). Kinda sad, I'd love to build that specific assembly, but Amber Wizards on bicephalous Griffon is fair game.
Production would be cheap; just make some FW exclusives and fewer plastic kits. I love my current plastic Seraphon battleline options for AoS: they look prehistorically charming, but I would mind to instead rebase my Warriors to square bases and, if GW relelase new plastic kits for Lizardmen/Serpahon, use the new ones in AoS instead. Also, plastic Kroxigors, Sallies and Razors, please.
Planning ahead in this case will not disappoint me.
Can't wait for the boomers to celebrate the impeding fall of AoS in MySpace and Blogpost.
2021/07/21 22:33:19
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Can't wait for the boomers to celebrate the impeding fall of AoS in MySpace and Blogpost.
Much like social media today is rife with AOS fans saying this will die as soon as it comes out because no one wants to play a game like warhammer fantasy today.
2021/07/21 22:53:21
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
If it's similar to 6th/early 7th I'm in. Ravening Hordes to pre-daemon codex 7th were the good times. Armies were relatively compact and diverse. Magic existed but didn't demolish games, etc.
Hopefully they'd remove some of the things that made the game tedious such as guess range, templates, and set charge distances. Those are ones I remember but it's been.....a long time.
I'll happily build a new army and get games in or even just paint a single force up for display. Nostalgia is strong.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
2021/07/21 22:57:17
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Can't wait for the boomers to celebrate the impeding fall of AoS in MySpace and Blogpost.
Much like social media today is rife with AOS fans saying this will die as soon as it comes out because no one wants to play a game like warhammer fantasy today.
Yet AoS has been alive well for over a lustrum and the nayers keep telling that next BT will kill the game for real this time, meanwhile AoS players know that the WHFB is already extremely fractured and that having so many flavours to appeal make it harder to nail a ruleset that satisfies the broader playerbase possible.
I would also like to compare this to the Nostalgia effect from remasters/remakes/revivals/reboots; see WoW Classic and TBC Classic as examples (don't include pirate servers numbers up, A., they are not "private" servers: the official servers ARE THE PRIVATE ONES because you have a monthly fee to access it, it is not a P2P or F2P game, B., they can lie about numbers): lots of hype, then a notorious steep because people didn't liked for whatever reason or just didn't wanted to pay for the month. This was even worst with TBC because executive meddling to give the playerbase "the best experience for everyone possible".
2021/07/21 23:19:03
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
I would also point out that whenever a game comes out that someone else doesn't like, the first thought / desire for them is that the new game they dont like will die.
Because its human nature.
WHFB is fractured because the main game that the WHFB players played went away and was replaced by something totally not like what WHFB was.
It coming back will inevitably draw a lot of people back to the GW mothership.
2021/07/21 23:26:33
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
It coming back will inevitably draw a lot of people back to the GW mothership.
Define "a lot".
As for myself...I think people who loved playing Warhammer Battle at that time weren't especially young when it died, and now as years pass on, they keep aging. The Old Guard having still their WFB armies are either using them for another game, moved on something else or just keep playing the same old rules anyway and don't need another "new edition".
I think at the time it will be finally available (honestly believing it won't be there before another couple of years at best), it will draw way more new players than veteran back. Talking only about those who left GW entirely, not just playing 40k or AoS...if they still stay inside GW, it's not "being back to the mothership".
These news are nice to know, I guess, but I still don't understand the need to make articles about this project this soon, really. That game should be ready for when Total War Warhammer 3 is out and it will clearly miss the release no matter what anyway.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/21 23:27:20
2021/07/21 23:30:19
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
I'm not a psychic. But every big rank and file game I'm a part of has a lot of its community talking about going back to try it out and there is some worry in pretty much every game's community right now.
So ... a lot.
Having been around wargaming since the internet was aol chat rooms, I've heard the "its going to die right away" prediction probably more times than I can recall counting.
GW being a huge company has likely done a lot of marketing on this to determine if it was worth their time.
Apparently they feel its worth their time.
I realize the AOS fan base hopes it fails and burns because they dont want their own community to fragment, and despite any bravado put forth about how awesome AOS is, many in the AOS community also fear losing players back to the old world.
I think its nice that gw now has a game for both types of players, instead of just giving the finger to the warhammer players who had no game to go to when their game got exploded overnight.
2021/07/21 23:31:30
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Cronch wrote: I look forward to blocking 50-strong regiments with 5 dire wolves again, the pinnacle of tactics and strategy in the system
Wasn't there an overcharge mechanic where if you wipe out a unit in a turn you can keep going?
But you angle the direwolf unit so they then overrun in a direction exposing their flank. The worst example of this was 6-7th with skirmish blobs where the unit had the charge the closest model. So you would position one model so the charging unit would nearly have to pull a 90 turn. That was thing I did not miss going from 7th to 8th.
2021/07/21 23:54:33
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
I realize the AOS fan base hopes it fails and burns because they dont want their own community to fragment, and despite any bravado put forth about how awesome AOS is, many in the AOS community also fear losing players back to the old world.
I guess there will be a "War of the Ring" effect (mostly was just from a minority of extremists who like to be more vocal on the Internet than their real numbers are, anyway), but most AoS fans don't really care about that. It will be clearly not the same universe nor the same game system. Bet more than one player will gather an army in both systems...what can happen is that they may not have all the time to play both as much as they would like to, for sure...that was my main problem when I was playing both War of the Ring and Warhammer Battle at that time.
What will be nice here is that we'll certainly have miniatures fitting to be played in AoS. Kislev will surely look nice in a Cities of Sigmar army (if it's still around when 4th edition of AoS will be out at the date of Old World's release )...and since we know it will be the same scale and it's not Lord of the Ring, nothing will be in the way. Ok, maybe just changing bases.
Sure, it may be worrying for small communities like on Discord for Conquest (or the Ninth Age, since they...well...it was a project about continuing the 8th edition of Warhammer Battle and "making it better than GW" - but now it's completely its own thing), but I'm not. Reality is that we're still a few years away from the real release and meanwhile, these games will keep growing and consolidating their fanbase...or they'll die and their playerbase will be free anyway.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/07/22 00:02:20
2021/07/21 23:57:09
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Cronch wrote: I look forward to blocking 50-strong regiments with 5 dire wolves again, the pinnacle of tactics and strategy in the system
Wasn't there an overcharge mechanic where if you wipe out a unit in a turn you can keep going?
But you angle the direwolf unit so they then overrun in a direction exposing their flank. The worst example of this was 6-7th with skirmish blobs where the unit had the charge the closest model. So you would position one model so the charging unit would nearly have to pull a 90 turn. That was thing I did not miss going from 7th to 8th.
Yeah that does sound counterintuitive. They should have allowed a wheel action when you overrun.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/21 23:57:33
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2021/07/22 00:13:57
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Da boyz woz called Orcs in da Old World, so datz what dey’z called!
This makes me happy. I still can't wrap my head around the race names in AoS.
lord_blackfang wrote: Really what is the playerbase here? I can't imagine there being a lot of grognards left who haven't either rebased their army or set it on fire.
The playerbase would be people like me, who want a rank & file Fantasy game and aren't interested in KoW.
If this is good, and recognisably WHFB (and the bit about drawing rules from previous editions is a hopeful sign there) then I'll likely check it out. If not, then I'll just go back to my current plan of dusting off 5th edition as soon as I have time... which will be any month now, honest...
2021/07/22 00:14:08
Subject: Re:Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Only at the expense of flank charges, monsters and elite infantry. It threw tactics out the window and reduced armies to fielding one massive block of infantry with a couple of other units, usually monsters.
I wasn't a fan.
I never encountered this tbh.
Usually things like monsters were killy enough to be able to handle any kind of heavily ranked infantry unit over the course of a few turns.
It didn't throw tactics out the window at all. All you had to do was get your own highly ranked unit in with the enemy to remove their steadfast, and then flank them with cavalry.
Nobody took basic blocks of infantry prior to steadfast unless they had stubborn or unbreakable.
You couldn't just charge the front of a fully ranked unit with bunch of cavalry and expect to win, just like real life.
And people like to bring up Skaven Slaves a lot for this argument, but Skaven never had an 8th edition book released so I think its unfair to use them as an example of why steadfast was broken when they never had the update to the new rules. By the end of 8th edition, things were so lethal that nobody started relying on big blocks of infantry anymore. They just died too quickly. They were used as a roadblock to tie up enemy units for a turn or two.
I would very much be in favour of Flank charges removing steadfast, but ultimately the rule was important in the way infantry functioned and was a good rule.
Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi
2021/07/22 00:35:39
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
As long as they fix the fact that by the most part, 90% of the gameplay of 6th fantasy (the BEST edition for most people) was using small units to redirect the bigger units of your opponent and charge their flanks (NO GW, NO, WHY IS MY 15 CHOSEN REGIMENT FORCED TO CHARGE 5 OUTRIDERS IN A STRAIGHT LINE!), then this will be surely great.
Also I'm in the camp of "I like Fantasy better when infantry is more relevant". MESBG can make a game with individual models and round bases were cavalry charging from the front a spearwall of infantry is nearly always letal with 0 bonus for charges, formations, flanking, rear attacks, etc..., but Fantasy with regiments and fixed, squared formations can't? And units exist in a dichotomy between "Cavalry charges, something dies" or "Infantry is charged, what charged is destroyed by a thousand cuts" for eternity.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/22 00:37:42
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2021/07/22 01:00:07
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
I want to play the game and see it thrive (so I can get plastic Kroxigors), but I'm just pointing out that AoS already has a playerbase and only two real editions of the game, while TOW will have to engage people from different systems, ever since 6th Edition. And they just said that they will partially base the game on 8E. That already is a "No" for diehard detractors of that Edition that don't wan't anything to do with it.
Goose LeChance wrote: Gatekeep everything AoS, including model design. If you want to play AoS just play AoS.
You know that won't happen. Good luck getting Finecrap/metal Greater Daemons. What about the new, plastic Ogor Tyrant? can't anyone just base him on a square base instead of using a lame resin one?
Such a dumb mentality; again, looks a lot like "#NoChanges" from WoW Classic. I knew people that legitimately thought that Classic was going to be hard as nails, and then they left because raiding MC "was not the same".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/22 01:07:39
2021/07/22 01:05:09
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Can you think of a "gonzo," "mythic" (or whatever other ultimately-insufficient genre label we can use) fantasy setting that was popular in the US before the 5E/AoS years? Y'know, to confirm that the tastes of the US market actually reflected the preferences you're claiming they did? Is MtG the best you got? Because nobody plays MtG for the setting/characters.
Thats kind of a silly (read: invalid) way of "confirming" something. You're essentially asking me to prove something subjectively defined existed prior to its actual existence.
American audiences were not responding well to Warhammer Fantasy, ergo a change was needed to broaden the appeal. GW made those changes, and in doing so produced a new setting that broke from traditional fantasy tropes (and in the process pulled in some scifi/space opera tropes) in order to produce a new non-traditional fantasy setting - not unlike how the MCU approached Thor in much the same way to turn the character and his films into more of a space opera than the more campy traditional fantasy interpretation of the character. In fact, the Thor films and AoS share a lot of elements and tropes in common, thematically speaking, and its hard not to imagine that they may have both been spawned as the result of a similar creative process. The result of this was a more mythic/gonzo setting (words which I am probably misusing, but I think you understand what I am trying to describe). This type of setting was not pre-defined or pre-destined, it was not a case of "American audiences like this type of genre more", rather it was "American audiences respond well to these features" and when packaged together they ended up being this mythic/gonzo thing.
Do you have numbers for NA being WHFB's weakeast market by a large margin? I'd like to know how large the margin is. I'd like to see the interview quotations you remember from the former designers so that I'm not trusting a third-hand interpretation of the measure of the word "large."
Of course I don't have numbers, I doubt anyone does outside of GW themselves. I just accept the word of those who would know *eyeroll*. I can't find it now but years ago there was an interview hosted somewhere online relating to the release of the Generals Compendium, I believe it was Jeremy Vetock speaking. He discussed how the Generals Compendium was produced by the US design studio (basically the only thing they ever did) in an attempt to try to attract American audiences to the game because Warhammer Fantasy was performing dismally in the US market. According to the interview, Warhammer Fantasy sales in the US (or North American, can't remember which specifically) in the region were only a small fraction of the sales that 40k was generating in the same region, whereas in the EU/UK market WHFB was about on par with 40k in terms of sales performance.
I also recall James Hewitt (I think) saying something similar on his twitter some time back with regards to how 40k was more popular in the US vs WHFB in the UK/EU.
Has D&D not recently grown in Europe at the same rate it's grown in the US? Y'know, given the supposed preferences of each region?
The data wouldn't necessarily be clean-cut, WotC only did limited localization in Europe until recently (iirc it was mainly only French, Spanish, and German for the EU audience) meaning that a lot of Europe was SOL unless they learned English or one of the other 3 languages. A Polish translation wasn't released until 2019, for example. As it stands though, there is this:
Spoiler:
There is no US/RoW data to compare it to, nor are there any numbers so you can't really draw a meaningful quantitative comparison to other markets, but the attention they have paid to the European market in this infographic implies that sales growth there did not keep up with other markets, BUT we can indirectly draw a conclusion on this: In 2017 WotC reported a 44% year-on-year sales growth over 2016. We don't know where that growth came from - but we do know it didn't come from the European market, because according to the infographic there was barely no change in sales from 2016 to 2017.
Who was playing the best-selling Total War and Vermintide series? Europeans?
You might be able to get that data if you pay for SteamSpy, otherwise its most likely not data that you'll find for free. That being said, the Total War franchise (in general, not specifically warhammer) generally sells better in the UK/EU market than the US market - in part because the majority of the games cover European history and thus are of greater interest to European audiences. From comments made by Creative Assembly in the past, it also seems that the UK market generally outperforms all others in sales on a per capita basis (i.e. scaled for population), so its not that simple/I'm not sure that this would give us a straight answer, though it might otherwise indicate that Europeans are playing these games more than Americans are based on those historical trends.
The US doesn't have strict fantasy subgenre tastes -- rather, it didn't have any widely popular sword-and-sorcery fantasy, until two more-or-less "generational" events -- the LotR movies and Game of Thrones -- brought that genre to the mainstream.
Sure, but doesn't that kind of prove my point that traditional fantasy hasn't tended to sell well in the US? Look at the cultural monolith that Star Wars is/was/has become. Look at the prominence of Star Trek in American cultural history. Avatar (the one with the blue dudes), Transformers, The Matrix, Independence Day, etc. etc. etc. were all domestic box-office blockbusters. The top-ranking traditional scifi (excluding Frozen, Shrek, and Pirates of the Carribean here as they are non-traditional stuff) is Return of the King at #45: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films_in_the_United_States_and_Canada
Couldn't find data for EU, but overall Return of the King is #28, which implies it also did better in the EU market than it did in the US.
As for Game of Thrones, much ink (digital and print) has been spilled discussing how its not a traditional fantasy setting - it is overwhelmingly eurocentric, true, but it breaks with many of the traditional high fantasy tropes that have defined the genre, including Warhammer.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2021/07/22 01:45:33
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Can't wait for the boomers to celebrate the impeding fall of AoS in MySpace and Blogpost.
Much like social media today is rife with AOS fans saying this will die as soon as it comes out because no one wants to play a game like warhammer fantasy today.
Yet AoS has been alive well for over a lustrum and the nayers keep telling that next BT will kill the game for real this time, meanwhile AoS players know that the WHFB is already extremely fractured and that having so many flavours to appeal make it harder to nail a ruleset that satisfies the broader playerbase possible.
I would also like to compare this to the Nostalgia effect from remasters/remakes/revivals/reboots; see WoW Classic and TBC Classic as examples (don't include pirate servers numbers up, A., they are not "private" servers: the official servers ARE THE PRIVATE ONES because you have a monthly fee to access it, it is not a P2P or F2P game, B., they can lie about numbers): lots of hype, then a notorious steep because people didn't liked for whatever reason or just didn't wanted to pay for the month. This was even worst with TBC because executive meddling to give the playerbase "the best experience for everyone possible".
CMLR wrote: I want to play the game and see it thrive (so I can get plastic Kroxigors), but I'm just pointing out that AoS already has a playerbase and only two real editions of the game, while TOW will have to engage people from different systems, ever since 6th Edition. And they just said that they will partially base the game on 8E. That already is a "No" for diehard detractors of that Edition that don't wan't anything to do with it.
Goose LeChance wrote: Gatekeep everything AoS, including model design. If you want to play AoS just play AoS.
You know that won't happen. Good luck getting Finecrap/metal Greater Daemons. What about the new, plastic Ogor Tyrant? can't anyone just base him on a square base instead of using a lame resin one?
Such a dumb mentality; again, looks a lot like "#NoChanges" from WoW Classic. I knew people that legitimately thought that Classic was going to be hard as nails, and then they left because raiding MC "was not the same".
You can't compare WHFB players to World of Warcraft players.
WoW players are always chasing the next content high, they devour DLC/Expansions in a month and get bored, it's only natural they would lose interest in Classic.
WHFB players have kept the game going long after GW told them all to go away. Either through old editions or alternative companies, they'll be around until they die.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/22 01:46:17
Old World Prediction: The Empire will have stupid Clockwork Paragon Warsuits and Mecha Horses
2021/07/22 01:56:42
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
lord_blackfang wrote: Really what is the playerbase here? I can't imagine there being a lot of grognards left who haven't either rebased their army or set it on fire.
In spite of only playing 1 game in the past decade, I still have all my old armies and still on their square bases, my friends are all the same, they talked about selling up but kept their armies as they were on square bases.
2021/07/22 02:17:05
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
yukishiro1 wrote: I'm pretty sure they'll be selling official Games Workshop branded movement trays at 3x the normal price so you can use your round based models with the new system. I wouldn't worry too much about that angle, not even GW is going to think it's a good idea to create some system that requires you to rip your models off their bases every time you want to switch them between AOS and Old World.
I suspect they simply won't care. The longer AOS goes on, the more it diverges from it's WHFB roots, the more new races with no links/heavily different styles are added (Idoneth, Kruleboyz, Lumineth etc).
Eh. Kruleboyz were deliberately designed as a callback to early edition O&G. They're pretty much the biggest callback to Warhammer roots that GW has released this century.
Lumineth at least started as high elves, even if they got lost in the Outback of Avatar the Last Airbender.
Fishmen/elves were a long running joke, even if models never happened.
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2021/07/22 02:24:44
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
In all seriousness, thinking Towtruck will split the fanbase is like saying MESBG's soft-reboot would have split AoS' fanbase. AoS' rule set is a lot more like 40k than it was Fantasy, complete with Ground Marine poster boys. I'm willing to bet most people here have a 40k and AoS army but I don't see anyone complaining about that splitting things.
Also I can guarantee as a former Warmahordes player that TOW will have the same effect on rank and file games as 8e 40k did on that and every other skirmish wargame around 2017 - it will suck up all the hype, people will come back either out of a genuine desire to be part of a big game from GW again and the rest will follow along because it's what all their friends are playing. Eventually the vast majority are playing TOW, the games being played reduces and people look back at those other games and dismiss them as dead because... everyone is playing TOW, but none wants to play anything else yet because everyone is playing TOW, why would they play that other thing? A lot of those people will probably start chanting how they always hated KOW/Conquest/ASOIAF anyway, even if TOW's ruleset is trash.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/22 02:30:43
2021/07/22 03:43:01
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Bretonnia page 63
Commodus Leitdorf wrote: I dont know why people thought the game would be 10mm-15mm to begin with anyway. GW will not produce a wargame like this without the ability to potentially have minis cross over, if not as whole units, but as potential conversion. having their minis the same scale across all games mean more sales.
*Stares at you in Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis.*
Oh let's open that can of worms shall we?
The Titanicus and Aeronautica models seem to be "1/4th of 40k" (whatever that might be). But looking at the models they seem to work just fine with 6mm scaled humans. Note that the original Titans and aircraft were closer to 3mm scale. The Forgeworld aircraft were more akin to "1/5th of 40k" whilst tanks generally were all over the place.
No wonder they work with 6mm humans. They ARE 6mm scale.
Point is. Where'sother games you use at models? Gw after all supposedly sells only one scale to cross use models.
*Stares at you in Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis.*
Those games had existed previously. At worst they are the exceptions that prove the rule.
And 12mm fantasy combat existed before.
12mm would be logical scale if you wanted game of ranked battles over couple dozen soldiers pretending to be army
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MaxT wrote: It was only 8th with its stupid extra rank fighting and steadfast that got crazy with the number of models in an infantry unit, it was 40+ or don’t bother. In earlier editions outside of horde type exceptions like gobbos, 20 ish was the norm. With the article saying they took mechanics from 3rd through to 8th, we’ve got a 5/6ths chance of not having that horror show!
That assumes odds per edition is equal. And gw not favouring rules making people buy models
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/22 03:48:33
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2021/07/22 04:37:27
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Not even GW could be dumb enough not to realize what a disaster 8th was from a rules perspective. I would read the "it's not just 8th!" as a "it's not 8th at all but we can't actually say that 8th sucked!"