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 Sim-Life wrote:
Running Junith forces you to build around Martyred Lady, so keep that in mind. You'd probably want large squads of sisters in this case.

Well That is given since they are needed for battle line, They be in front of Celestian squad, getting +4 invuln from Junith and celestine. As long as the squads are 6" within both of them. The main point of it is a tau tactic celestian squad acting like drones, can't pic of HQs easyly and I don't think tau can bring back drones as hospataller can bring back 1 a round. Keeps your Celestine and junith from getting mortal wounds too.

Lemondish wrote:

Oberron wrote:

Taikishi wrote:
So, with this being the (as for now) final verdict on Miracle Dice, is there any reason to take Incensor cherubs? One AoF per phase and unless you have a Similacrum or are near the Triumph, you can replace one die.

Chance to get a die from sacred rose?

You'd need a Simulacrum of the Triumph nearby to help.

Which is why I'm so confused as to what people are complaining about. There was already little reason to take it without a Simulacrum anyway, as they work pretty perfect together for early game MD efficiency, but are otherwise difficult to maximize on their own.

Think if it as you're giving your squads a 5 point upgrade to perform an Act for all of them turn 1 without needing a pool to do so.

It's also fun, imo


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:
Running Junith forces you to build around Martyred Lady, so keep that in mind. You'd probably want large squads of sisters in this case.

Only for her reroll aura, so if you have other sources of that or don't care, she will still provide the invuln boost to everybody else. For whatever that is worth to you.

well +4 invuln will be good against rend army.

 Grundz wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Anyway, it takes an average of 7 Lascannon/Laser Destroyer [or 25 Illiastas Cannon/Stormcannon] hits to service an Exorcist, and an average of 54 bolt rifle [or any anti-infantry weapon] hits or 18 Illiastas Cannon/Stormcannon hits to service a Ret Squad. [Both Valorous Heart & Supported]

54 bolt rifle shots

hitting on 3+ 36 hits
rerolling 1's 42 hits
rerolling all: 48 hits

ignoring AP, ignoring cover
3+ save
6+ feel no pain

thats
6.66 dead sisters
7.778 dead sisters
8.88 dead sisters

what am I missing?

lascannon vs an exo i'd probably miracle away the first save

That the boltrifle shots won't be ignoring cover because you don't usually see IF intercessors, they tend to be run in spearheads.

And katherine is missing that your opponent is much more likely to have 7 lascannon shots in range of an exorcist than they are to have 54 bolt rifle shots in range of retributors.

Xfrawg wrote:

Well That is given since they are needed for battle line, They be in front of Celestian squad, getting +4 invuln from Junith and celestine. As long as the squads are 6" within both of them. The main point of it is a tau tactic celestian squad acting like drones, can't pic of HQs easyly and I don't think tau can bring back drones as hospataller can bring back 1 a round. Keeps your Celestine and junith from getting mortal wounds too.

Just be worried about characters getting hit by multi damage weapons. Then your celestians will start dropping in droves. Get hit by meltagun? Could easily lose 6 celestian in one go.

tneva82 wrote:

Xfrawg wrote:

Well That is given since they are needed for battle line, They be in front of Celestian squad, getting +4 invuln from Junith and celestine. As long as the squads are 6" within both of them. The main point of it is a tau tactic celestian squad acting like drones, can't pic of HQs easyly and I don't think tau can bring back drones as hospataller can bring back 1 a round. Keeps your Celestine and junith from getting mortal wounds too.

Just be worried about characters getting hit by multi damage weapons. Then your celestians will start dropping in droves. Get hit by meltagun? Could easily lose 6 celestian in one go.

That is true. I will have to tweak it.. Hope fully by time celestine and Junith are in their faces, it won't be too late. I might have to put zephyem squad or two in to go behind the lines to keep them occupied

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

Your rets getting FFed? Good. Valorous Heart rets LOVE being focus fired. Take a squad of 10 and watch an ironhands player use literally all of their anti-infantry firepower on them and kill 3 sisters. Watch an IF player tear his hair out over 3 thunderfire cannons and 3 whirlwinds failing to kill 10 models, even with ignores cover. Most common anti-infantry weapons in the game are AP-2, so they'll just bounce off the Rets. Even if they do get to the meltas, a hospitaller pays for herself bringing back 1 model.

Exorcists are actually much more fragile in practice than MM rets.

I'm not convinced this is true.

And part of this is also almost exclusively because of the Space Marine meta, where we're kind of tailoring to face Space Marines. If you're going to come up against Guard, with a lot of AP0 high-efficiency anti-infantry weapons, I expect Exorcists to win out dramatically in terms of survivability, similar for Tyranids, Tau, Eldar, Orks, and basically everybody except Necrons and Space Marines.

Of course, Space Marines are dominating the meta at like 70% of all lists, so tailoring to oppose Space Marines isn't a bad idea. You're vastly more likely to come across Space Marines than any of the other factions, especially in a high-power setting.

Anyway, it takes an average of 7 Lascannon/Laser Destroyer [or 25 Illiastas Cannon/Stormcannon] hits to service an Exorcist, and an average of 54 bolt rifle [or any anti-infantry weapon] hits or 18 Illiastas Cannon/Stormcannon hits to service a Ret Squad. [Both Valorous Heart & Supported]

Just to drive this point home, in cover, because a lot of armies still don't ignore cover, it takes 60 rend -2 or lower WOUNDS to kill an entire VH dominion squad. Most armies don't have anywhere near that much anti-infantry, and the ones that do have it on extremely short range shots (i.e. 6 flamer/hb centurions, 30 boys). Armies that do ignore cover tend to bring even less dedicated anti-infantry because why wouldn't they? Ignoring cover means most of the game's infantry just melt, even marines. So it's even better against non-marine armies that don't rock a free extra AP on all of their shots (usually). Necrons and Dark Eldar are the only armies that have widespread enough AP-3 to dodge VH but then they should probably be bouncing off of our 4++ AND lacking the number of shots/rerolls necessary to wipe the entire squad in one turn without leaving them open to massive counter attack.

And you say 54 bolt rifle hits like that's not a frack ton of shots. Even rerolling all hits (which most marine armies generally don't bother with against us) that's still THIRTY rapid fire range intercessors. Meanwhile 7 lascannon hits is just the Chaplain dreads they were bringing anyway, from anywhere on the table. If they're not IF it's 88 shots or FORTY FOUR Rapid fire range intercessors.

I've used a 10 girl strong dominion squad in multiple games so far and never had it die in shooting. I've lost 2 exorcists in every one of those games. Both units are good, but the dominions are WAY harder to shift in practice the same way that the exorcist does a lot more damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Xfrawg wrote:

Well That is given since they are needed for battle line, They be in front of Celestian squad, getting +4 invuln from Junith and celestine. As long as the squads are 6" within both of them. The main point of it is a tau tactic celestian squad acting like drones, can't pic of HQs easyly and I don't think tau can bring back drones as hospataller can bring back 1 a round. Keeps your Celestine and junith from getting mortal wounds too.

Just be worried about characters getting hit by multi damage weapons. Then your celestians will start dropping in droves. Get hit by meltagun? Could easily lose 6 celestian in one go.

Fun fact, this is one of the most efficient ways to kill intercessors in cover for us. Fire an Exorcist into an IH character dread and let them Cogitated martyrdom the damage off. Bam, just killed a tenner of intercessors. If you can actually get to a chaplain dread with something like Seraphim, it's more efficient than shooting the meltas at the intercessors.

Xfrawg wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
Running Junith forces you to build around Martyred Lady, so keep that in mind. You'd probably want large squads of sisters in this case.

Well That is given since they are needed for battle line, They be in front of Celestian squad, getting +4 invuln from Junith and celestine. As long as the squads are 6" within both of them. The main point of it is a tau tactic celestian squad acting like drones, can't pic of HQs easyly and I don't think tau can bring back drones as hospataller can bring back 1 a round. Keeps your Celestine and junith from getting mortal wounds too.

Lemondish wrote:

Oberron wrote:

Taikishi wrote:
So, with this being the (as for now) final verdict on Miracle Dice, is there any reason to take Incensor cherubs? One AoF per phase and unless you have a Similacrum or are near the Triumph, you can replace one die.

Chance to get a die from sacred rose?

You'd need a Simulacrum of the Triumph nearby to help.

Which is why I'm so confused as to what people are complaining about. There was already little reason to take it without a Simulacrum anyway, as they work pretty perfect together for early game MD efficiency, but are otherwise difficult to maximize on their own.

Think if it as you're giving your squads a 5 point upgrade to perform an Act for all of them turn 1 without needing a pool to do so.

It's also fun, imo


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:
Running Junith forces you to build around Martyred Lady, so keep that in mind. You'd probably want large squads of sisters in this case.

Only for her reroll aura, so if you have other sources of that or don't care, she will still provide the invuln boost to everybody else. For whatever that is worth to you.

well +4 invuln will be good against rend army.

Celestians can't Bodyguard Celestine and Junith is going to take all the multi-wound damage your opponent can target her with, so I don't see working the way you want it to

 Grundz wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Anyway, it takes an average of 7 Lascannon/Laser Destroyer [or 25 Illiastas Cannon/Stormcannon] hits to service an Exorcist, and an average of 54 bolt rifle [or any anti-infantry weapon] hits or 18 Illiastas Cannon/Stormcannon hits to service a Ret Squad. [Both Valorous Heart & Supported]

54 bolt rifle shots

hitting on 3+ 36 hits
rerolling 1's 42 hits
rerolling all: 48 hits

ignoring AP, ignoring cover
3+ save
6+ feel no pain

thats
6.66 dead sisters
7.778 dead sisters
8.88 dead sisters

what am I missing?

lascannon vs an exo i'd probably miracle away the first save

I said Hits, and skipped the rolling-to-hit step since it's not like Exorcists or Retributors are hit on different values.

10/(2/3*1/3*5/6) = 54 required hits. 81 require BS3+ unsupported shots. With Captain and Lieutenant, that's 59.5 total shots.

Lammia wrote:
Celestians can't Bodyguard Celestine and Junith is going to take all the multi-wound damage your opponent can target her with, so I don't see working the way you want it to

Mind you junith won't be easily shot though being character. Cold star commander is main threat.

ERJAK wrote:

Just to drive this point home, in cover, because a lot of armies still don't ignore cover, it takes 60 rend -2 or lower WOUNDS to kill an entire VH dominion squad. Most armies don't have anywhere near that much anti-infantry, and the ones that do have it on extremely short range shots (i.e. 6 flamer/hb centurions, 30 boys). Armies that do ignore cover tend to bring even less dedicated anti-infantry because why wouldn't they? Ignoring cover means most of the game's infantry just melt, even marines. So it's even better against non-marine armies that don't rock a free extra AP on all of their shots (usually). Necrons and Dark Eldar are the only armies that have widespread enough AP-3 to dodge VH but then they should probably be bouncing off of our 4++ AND lacking the number of shots/rerolls necessary to wipe the entire squad in one turn without leaving them open to massive counter attack.

And you say 54 bolt rifle hits like that's not a frack ton of shots. Even rerolling all hits (which most marine armies generally don't bother with against us) that's still THIRTY rapid fire range intercessors. Meanwhile 7 lascannon hits is just the Chaplain dreads they were bringing anyway, from anywhere on the table. If they're not IF it's 88 shots or FORTY FOUR Rapid fire range intercessors.

I've used a 10 girl strong dominion squad in multiple games so far and never had it die in shooting. I've lost 2 exorcists in every one of those games. Both units are good, but the dominions are WAY harder to shift in practice the same way that the exorcist does a lot more damage.

54 bolt rifle hits [or 59 shots with support as stated more recently], is about 15 supported Intercessors. The first ten can stratagem for 40 shots total, followed by the second 5 just shooting.

I don't think 59 shots or 54 hits or whatever is a lot of shooting. An Imperial Guard Rifleman squad outputs 18 at long and 37 at short [for completeness sake, it takes 144 shots from unsupported Imperial Guardsmen to destroy the Rets], a Intercessor squad puts out between 10 to 40 shots at any range, etc.

I do think more than 1 Leviathan or 20-something hits from a Caladius are a lot of shooting.

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Celestians can't Bodyguard Celestine and Junith is going to take all the multi-wound damage your opponent can target her with, so I don't see working the way you want it to

Mind you junith won't be easily shot though being character. Cold star commander is main threat.

Junith is still a vehicle

Lammia wrote:

Xfrawg wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
Running Junith forces you to build around Martyred Lady, so keep that in mind. You'd probably want large squads of sisters in this case.

Well That is given since they are needed for battle line, They be in front of Celestian squad, getting +4 invuln from Junith and celestine. As long as the squads are 6" within both of them. The main point of it is a tau tactic celestian squad acting like drones, can't pic of HQs easyly and I don't think tau can bring back drones as hospataller can bring back 1 a round. Keeps your Celestine and junith from getting mortal wounds too.

Lemondish wrote:

Oberron wrote:

Taikishi wrote:
So, with this being the (as for now) final verdict on Miracle Dice, is there any reason to take Incensor cherubs? One AoF per phase and unless you have a Similacrum or are near the Triumph, you can replace one die.

Chance to get a die from sacred rose?

You'd need a Simulacrum of the Triumph nearby to help.

Which is why I'm so confused as to what people are complaining about. There was already little reason to take it without a Simulacrum anyway, as they work pretty perfect together for early game MD efficiency, but are otherwise difficult to maximize on their own.

Think if it as you're giving your squads a 5 point upgrade to perform an Act for all of them turn 1 without needing a pool to do so.

It's also fun, imo


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:
Running Junith forces you to build around Martyred Lady, so keep that in mind. You'd probably want large squads of sisters in this case.

Only for her reroll aura, so if you have other sources of that or don't care, she will still provide the invuln boost to everybody else. For whatever that is worth to you.

well +4 invuln will be good against rend army.

Celestians can't Bodyguard Celestine and Junith is going to take all the multi-wound damage your opponent can target her with, so I don't see working the way you want it to

If your throwing lots of krak grunades, or have army Heavly on D3 and D6 damage. Like a tank army, then yes. I would have to think this through Take army would fear celestine, so it would be main target and I would have to even out my army and more melta guns. But to focus just her and juneth to the point that your just wiping out the celestine squad with body guard in one or two shots, isn't really good strategy. That is if you are not rolling 1 for you d 6 or d3. Plus on a +5 it negates that wound on body guard skill. With simulacrum, I can save atleast 1 with a miracle dice. I will have to see how I can keep replenshing my dice . Also I am sure I won't always roll under a 5 for body guard. Like I said, it is untested

I would also have to see what other squads would be good to keep them worrying about other stuff other than just celestine and junith. enough to get them in close combat.

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Celestians can't Bodyguard Celestine and Junith is going to take all the multi-wound damage your opponent can target her with, so I don't see working the way you want it to

Mind you junith won't be easily shot though being character. Cold star commander is main threat.

Junith is still a vehicle

So? She's 7 wound character. Being vehicle is irrelevant. What matters is do you have less than 10W or not if you are character.

You could be super heavy as long as you have 9 wounds and you won't be shot.

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Celestians can't Bodyguard Celestine and Junith is going to take all the multi-wound damage your opponent can target her with, so I don't see working the way you want it to

Mind you junith won't be easily shot though being character. Cold star commander is main threat.

Junith is still a vehicle

crap, I didn't realize she was a vehicle, I can't bodyguard her, just celestine.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will still have good invuln for almost whole army, and protecting celestine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
She does have +4 invuln and +3 save so still going be hard to kill her.

Xfrawg wrote:

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Celestians can't Bodyguard Celestine and Junith is going to take all the multi-wound damage your opponent can target her with, so I don't see working the way you want it to

Mind you junith won't be easily shot though being character. Cold star commander is main threat.

Junith is still a vehicle

crap, I didn't realize she was a vehicle, I can't bodyguard her, just celestine.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will still have good invuln for almost whole army, and protecting celestine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
She does have +4 invuln and +3 save so still going be hard to kill her.

Honestly all the Sisters characters are backline support. Even Celestine is probably better held back till turn 3 or 4. If your group has the terrain Junith looks fairly easy to keep out of LoS. Keep her hidden and provide invuln buffs to stuff like Exos and backline objective holders while Celestine buffs midfield.

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Celestians can't Bodyguard Celestine and Junith is going to take all the multi-wound damage your opponent can target her with, so I don't see working the way you want it to

Mind you junith won't be easily shot though being character. Cold star commander is main threat.

Junith is still a vehicle

So? She's 7 wound character. Being vehicle is irrelevant. What matters is do you have less than 10W or not if you are character.

You could be super heavy as long as you have 9 wounds and you won't be shot.

Last time I checked, it did matter...

Xfrawg wrote:

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Celestians can't Bodyguard Celestine and Junith is going to take all the multi-wound damage your opponent can target her with, so I don't see working the way you want it to

Mind you junith won't be easily shot though being character. Cold star commander is main threat.

Junith is still a vehicle

crap, I didn't realize she was a vehicle, I can't bodyguard her, just celestine.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will still have good invuln for almost whole army, and protecting celestine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
She does have +4 invuln and +3 save so still going be hard to kill her.

You can Bodyguard Junith with OoOML Celestians, she's an Order of Our Martyred Lady character. Celestine doesn't have an <Order> keyword though, so she can't be. Only Geminae Superia can take wounds for Celestine.

Lammia wrote:
Last time I checked, it did matter...

Only for bodyguard. But short of snipers opponent isn't shooting junith as she's 7W character and ergo can't be shot unless she's closest target. You really need to screw your positioning for her to be closest target. Surround her with units. No shooting at her. Frankly the bodyguard is irrelevant as you won't be fired at to begin with.

Xfrawg wrote:
So I have been sisters since 97, I have the old celestine model and what is left of my metal army. I am happy that sisters finally getting what they deserve some New Models. That said.

The way I am building my arm and I have not put this to the test since Not all the key models are out yet. This would be a 2k+ point game.

A tactic I think would be good for a core army would be celestine and Junith. Having them 12" apart For +1 to shield of faith with two squads of celestian in the middle to take the hits for their HQ and their invuln is +4 due to celestine and junith. Behind the celestian squad is two hospitallers bringing back celestian squads. This would take for ever for tanks or any squad to kill off the core of the army. I have yet to decided how I will do the other parts of the army. Maybe Repentia squads on each side of the HQ on the out side making their invuln +5. Two Diologist in the middle as well.

This tactic is untested though. In my mind it looks good.. Maybe for a table with little scenery. I would have to see how it plays out in a city setting. Luckly the +1 to invuln says within 6" not Wholly withing like they do in AOS.

Others have given good info on auras and unit abilities... as for deployment, I'd flip your plan inside out. Put your characters in the middle with big Sisters squads in front and big Celestians to either side. Running Martyred Lady, push squads forward and outward for range management and trail a few models to anchor the aura. Take a few hits to trigger the ML bonus and combine with stratagems to optimize bonuses and rerolls. By deploying characters in the middle with bodies and guns outside, you can keep the aura bubble together or split it two ways to respond to the flow of the battle. Celestine and Junith, an extra Canoness for melee punch, a Missionary to prop up your big squads, and you're on your way to two battalions. Maybe 3x10 BSS and 2x10 Celestians up front to cash in on all those extra hits from ML and 3x5 BSS to screen your Exos in the back. I might even like Holy Trinity up front... 10-15 Sisters with +1 to hit and wound is solid against the right target.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

54 bolt rifle hits [or 59 shots with support as stated more recently], is about 15 supported Intercessors. The first ten can stratagem for 40 shots total, followed by the second 5 just shooting.

I'm not sure getting someone to burn 2-3cp to have an average chance of killing a sub 200 point squad that your army doesn't hinge on, with the caveat that the squad is over extended and has probably already burned up its ammo cherubs with its first volley, and are out of cover, and in rapid fire range, is something i'm really very worried about.

The real threat to sisters is units sniping out the support characters, not blowing all their cp to clear chaff infantry.

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Celestians can't Bodyguard Celestine and Junith is going to take all the multi-wound damage your opponent can target her with, so I don't see working the way you want it to

Mind you junith won't be easily shot though being character. Cold star commander is main threat.

Junith is still a vehicle

So? She's 7 wound character. Being vehicle is irrelevant. What matters is do you have less than 10W or not if you are character.

You could be super heavy as long as you have 9 wounds and you won't be shot.

Last time I checked, it did matter...

Xfrawg wrote:

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Celestians can't Bodyguard Celestine and Junith is going to take all the multi-wound damage your opponent can target her with, so I don't see working the way you want it to

Mind you junith won't be easily shot though being character. Cold star commander is main threat.

Junith is still a vehicle

crap, I didn't realize she was a vehicle, I can't bodyguard her, just celestine.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will still have good invuln for almost whole army, and protecting celestine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
She does have +4 invuln and +3 save so still going be hard to kill her.

You can Bodyguard Junith with OoOML Celestians, she's an Order of Our Martyred Lady character. Celestine doesn't have an <Order> keyword though, so she can't be. Only Geminae Superia can take wounds for Celestine.

Your right, I guess celestine can't too,. Yeah, there goes my whole plan. Re routing new plan lol. I am glad I have people I can discuss this with, since I am the only sister player in my local area.

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Last time I checked, it did matter...

Only for bodyguard. But short of snipers opponent isn't shooting junith as she's 7W character and ergo can't be shot unless she's closest target. You really need to screw your positioning for her to be closest target. Surround her with units. No shooting at her. Frankly the bodyguard is irrelevant as you won't be fired at to begin with.

Hmmm... seems right. Though SM armies and a few others will still shoot at her or to make bodyguard relevant.

So pretty much just canonness and superiors can be guarded . I still like having the +4 invuln to pretty much the whole army, So I will keep that in mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Last time I checked, it did matter...

Only for bodyguard. But short of snipers opponent isn't shooting junith as she's 7W character and ergo can't be shot unless she's closest target. You really need to screw your positioning for her to be closest target. Surround her with units. No shooting at her. Frankly the bodyguard is irrelevant as you won't be fired at to begin with.

Hmmm... seems right. Though SM armies and a few others will still shoot at her or to make bodyguard relevant.

It doesn't matter at this point anyways, Vehicles can't be bodyguard. I don't think.

Xfrawg wrote:
So pretty much just canonness and superiors can be guarded . I still like having the +4 invuln to pretty much the whole army, So I will keep that in mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Last time I checked, it did matter...

Only for bodyguard. But short of snipers opponent isn't shooting junith as she's 7W character and ergo can't be shot unless she's closest target. You really need to screw your positioning for her to be closest target. Surround her with units. No shooting at her. Frankly the bodyguard is irrelevant as you won't be fired at to begin with.

Hmmm... seems right. Though SM armies and a few others will still shoot at her or to make bodyguard relevant.

It doesn't matter at this point anyways, Vehicles can't be bodyguard. I don't think.

The only keywords restrictions are <Order> and Character

Lammia wrote:

Xfrawg wrote:
So pretty much just canonness and superiors can be guarded . I still like having the +4 invuln to pretty much the whole army, So I will keep that in mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Last time I checked, it did matter...

Only for bodyguard. But short of snipers opponent isn't shooting junith as she's 7W character and ergo can't be shot unless she's closest target. You really need to screw your positioning for her to be closest target. Surround her with units. No shooting at her. Frankly the bodyguard is irrelevant as you won't be fired at to begin with.

Hmmm... seems right. Though SM armies and a few others will still shoot at her or to make bodyguard relevant.

It doesn't matter at this point anyways, Vehicles can't be bodyguard. I don't think.

The only keywords restrictions are <Order> and Character

Ah ok, I will keep that in mind, so only Canonness. and her.

Repentia Superior and Imagifier can also be Bodyguard-ed

 MacPhail wrote:

Xfrawg wrote:
So I have been sisters since 97, I have the old celestine model and what is left of my metal army. I am happy that sisters finally getting what they deserve some New Models. That said.

The way I am building my arm and I have not put this to the test since Not all the key models are out yet. This would be a 2k+ point game.

A tactic I think would be good for a core army would be celestine and Junith. Having them 12" apart For +1 to shield of faith with two squads of celestian in the middle to take the hits for their HQ and their invuln is +4 due to celestine and junith. Behind the celestian squad is two hospitallers bringing back celestian squads. This would take for ever for tanks or any squad to kill off the core of the army. I have yet to decided how I will do the other parts of the army. Maybe Repentia squads on each side of the HQ on the out side making their invuln +5. Two Diologist in the middle as well.

This tactic is untested though. In my mind it looks good.. Maybe for a table with little scenery. I would have to see how it plays out in a city setting. Luckly the +1 to invuln says within 6" not Wholly withing like they do in AOS.

Others have given good info on auras and unit abilities... as for deployment, I'd flip your plan inside out. Put your characters in the middle with big Sisters squads in front and big Celestians to either side. Running Martyred Lady, push squads forward and outward for range management and trail a few models to anchor the aura. Take a few hits to trigger the ML bonus and combine with stratagems to optimize bonuses and rerolls. By deploying characters in the middle with bodies and guns outside, you can keep the aura bubble together or split it two ways to respond to the flow of the battle. Celestine and Junith, an extra Canoness for melee punch, a Missionary to prop up your big squads, and you're on your way to two battalions. Maybe 3x10 BSS and 2x10 Celestians up front to cash in on all those extra hits from ML and 3x5 BSS to screen your Exos in the back. I might even like Holy Trinity up front... 10-15 Sisters with +1 to hit and wound is solid against the right target.

Thanks, I will keep this in mind.

Lammia wrote:
Repentia Superior and Imagifier can also be Bodyguard-ed

That's a really good point for VH though. I'd say in that instance you need at least a few Celestians running around to protect your imagifiers, since they're so critical to the rest of the list.

Especially if your imagifiers are the +1 strength variety. Celestians benefit enormously from that. 2 attacks per model, 3 on the superior (and potentially four with the chainsword, of course) makes the increase from 3 to 4 pretty massive. Especially if they get rerolls on to-hit for also being near a canoness.

What are we liking for Celestian loadout? Assume Bloody Rose, a Canoness and maybe, if the circumstances are right, their stratagem, plus the Imagifier for melee. Melta, melta, combimelta, simulacrum? Mix in a combi flamer or hand flamer? Inferno to blast someone in melee? Or just stormbolters on the cheap?

Also, if I have a simulacrum and two meltas, can I drop two MD sixes for Overwatch? That makes a dialogus a bit more compelling, if she could serve a bunch of squads with melta both in the Shooting phase and in Overwatch.

 MacPhail wrote:
What are we liking for Celestian loadout? Assume Bloody Rose, a Canoness and maybe, if the circumstances are right, their stratagem, plus the Imagifier for melee. Melta, melta, combimelta, simulacrum? Mix in a combi flamer or hand flamer? Inferno to blast someone in melee? Or just stormbolters on the cheap?

Also, if I have a simulacrum and two meltas, can I drop two MD sixes for Overwatch? That makes a dialogus a bit more compelling, if she could serve a bunch of squads with melta both in the Shooting phase and in Overwatch.

celestian loadouts: typically nothing or an inferno pistol, if the squad is naked a combi plasma is doable, a hand flamer in any squad with a meltagun to unlock holy trinity is nice.

you simply don't want to get sisters dug in so any close combat weapon you probably aren't going to get much mileage from, if I had a squad of celestians the captain may get a close combat weapon as they will be right up there with the canoness's eating shots, but regular squads? nah

a simulacrum lets that squad make an additional miracle every phase, so if they are the first miracle that phase, yes, you could use two, you should take that into account when building your squads, if you are taking a meltagun and a melta pistol, another meltagun is too many for you to miracle, so it may be better to stick it in another squad, if you are building miracle dice/banner heavy, you want to spread all those weapons out.

 Grundz wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
What are we liking for Celestian loadout? Assume Bloody Rose, a Canoness and maybe, if the circumstances are right, their stratagem, plus the Imagifier for melee. Melta, melta, combimelta, simulacrum? Mix in a combi flamer or hand flamer? Inferno to blast someone in melee? Or just stormbolters on the cheap?

Also, if I have a simulacrum and two meltas, can I drop two MD sixes for Overwatch? That makes a dialogus a bit more compelling, if she could serve a bunch of squads with melta both in the Shooting phase and in Overwatch.

celestian loadouts: typically nothing or an inferno pistol, if the squad is naked a combi plasma is doable, a hand flamer in any squad with a meltagun to unlock holy trinity is nice.

you simply don't want to get sisters dug in so any close combat weapon you probably aren't going to get much mileage from, if I had a squad of celestians the captain may get a close combat weapon as they will be right up there with the canoness's eating shots, but regular squads? nah

a simulacrum lets that squad make an additional miracle every phase, so if they are the first miracle that phase, yes, you could use two, you should take that into account when building your squads, if you are taking a meltagun and a melta pistol, another meltagun is too many for you to miracle, so it may be better to stick it in another squad, if you are building miracle dice/banner heavy, you want to spread all those weapons out.

He is talking bloody rose.

Celestian bloody roses is something that your opponent will really really not want dug into HIS forces. Each of those girls headbuts 1,2 MEQs. If you give a sword to the superior, she alone gets 3 heads home. All of this just with an imagifier, don't even need the canoness. With a missionary, 10 celestians murder a 10 man intercessor squad (they kill 9 actually, but when your squad disappears like that due to an unhealthy amount of crazied girls, you tend to forget that you shouldn't know no fear).