Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
To the contrary, understanding how to counterplay against Lumineth and what to do to mitigate their abilities is a big factor. There are a LOT of things you can do to screw with their allegiance benefits if you know what you are doing.

I'd love to agree more, but with books being all over the place power wise currently it's a bit of a feel bad. The level of LRL rules makes for a very feels bad experience. SoB also can be oppressive but they don't have access to non LoS nuking archers and arguably the best magic user to tank up your dudes/spam out debuffs and MW's makes LRL very unfun to play against as is, the new units I doubt will enhance that experience.

Such a shame since I adore my gloomspite but LRL are supremely unfun to play against.

If lumineth wants new units he either gives up teclis or archers. 20 warden, 20 archers, calthallar, bat, spell portal, teclis. 1500. 20 teclis ain't nothing. Frankly any list with teclis is already givlng up handicap. Either way doesn't leave much room then to new units. And 20 archers is 60 less than tough lumineth list

Wait am I alone in not having Teclis? I just saw him as an expensive model, and a "unnecessary" model challenge.

Oh well, I wonder if people take AOS nearly as seriously as 40k. Cause from what I've played (the three games I have). Seems like most people do not treat this super competitively and they don't take special characters as often?

If you want best list to try win tournament it's1-2 calthallar, 40 pikes, 70-80 sentilel, Battalion, spellportal

tneva82 wrote:
If you want best list to try win tournament it's1-2 calthallar, 40 pikes, 70-80 sentilel, Battalion, spellportal

Nah, waaaaaay too vulnerable to alpha strike.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Wait am I alone in not having Teclis? I just saw him as an expensive model, and a "unnecessary" model challenge.

Oh well, I wonder if people take AOS nearly as seriously as 40k. Cause from what I've played (the three games I have). Seems like most people do not treat this super competitively and they don't take special characters as often?

Depends on the power level of the character and its relative comparison to the other units in an army. Kroak is so broken do to low points cost that he is always seeing the table. Teclis is ridiculous as well, but LRL has other stupidly good stuff that he isn't an auto take. Then there are the garbage tier characters like Alarrielle who are just too expensive/bad to routinely justify. Although, I love the model, so I enjoy taking her in my Sylvaneth games.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
If you don't play a ton of games, there is basically never a reason to buy a new faction's first battle-tome/codex. Unless you don't care about buying another very soon. I think thats the take away.

Not quite true though. Dark Eldar had the same book for multiple editions. Tau were fairly stable through most of 3rd ed. Tyranids were stable in 2nd ed.

The only cases of 1 Year Redundancy seem to be Imperial Knights, Lumineth and hilariously Space Marines (who got their x.5 updated book toward the end of 7th and then their new book almost immediately in 8th!)

My statement is in regards to GW in it's current business model, and completely new factions (those who have never had a book before).

 Asherian Command wrote:
Wait am I alone in not having Teclis? I just saw him as an expensive model, and a "unnecessary" model challenge.

Oh well, I wonder if people take AOS nearly as seriously as 40k. Cause from what I've played (the three games I have). Seems like most people do not treat this super competitively and they don't take special characters as often?

People tend not to be as serious/competitive in AoS and that has actually become one of the main draws pulling people from 40k.

As for Teclis; broken as hell. Unless they enemy can deal with him (shoot to death inside two rounds), in which case he is terrible. Rare for him to be in-between the two extremes.

Teclis is broken as hell...until you remember he's 600 pts. Then you realize why tough lumineth lists skip him.

New players　complain about him. Good ones just beat him.

tneva82 wrote:
Teclis is broken as hell...until you remember he's 600 pts. Then you realize why tough lumineth lists skip him.

New players　complain about him. Good ones just beat him.

*strokes epeen*

There, all better!

Could probably just throw Gotrek at him. That dude is busted af.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Could probably just throw Gotrek at him. That dude is busted af.

Gotrek is very powerful, but he's also very expensive in points, has a very small base size and also can't move very fast and cannot have spells cast on him to speed him up. He's best countered by things like ignoring him - ergo yes he's got an objective, but he's a huge chunk of points that can't chase after you so you move your whole army against the rest of your opponents force and secure the other objectives.

Or tangling him up with lots of weaker chaff units so that he's slowed down and can't make it to where he's needed to be.

Remembering to avoid him with your big monster or greater demon or such since he's made for character and monster killing.

The problem with Teclis is that no other model that costs as much as him does as much as him. Katakros would be a close second.

And Teclis is just invulnerable to many lists or even whole factions, completely destroying them. Thats no bueno. Of course, the solution is to stop playing those factions and play a meta one.

But bad players see competitive results and say "See? No competitive list is running it, that means it is good!"

But just like Tau's in 7th and marines in 9th, the fact they aren't copping tops doesnt mean in a casual setting they aren't busted and are big gatekeepers.

 Galas wrote:
The problem with Teclis is that no other model that costs as much as him does as much as him. Katakros would be a close second.

And Teclis is just invulnerable to many lists or even whole factions, completely destroying them. Thats no bueno. Of course, the solution is to stop playing those factions and play a meta one.

But bad players see competitive results and say "See? No competitive list is running it, that means it is good!"

But just like Tau's in 7th and marines in 9th, the fact they aren't copping tops doesnt mean in a casual setting they aren't busted and are big gatekeepers.

Agreed, it is not whether he is good or not in the meta game that is key. He can lead to very unpleasant individual games. Compare him to Archaon who has interesting rules and can be used in very powerful ways, but who is rewarding to play against.

I only play against FEC really, so I run lots of freeguild and OG stormcast infantry, probably would get smoked by Lumineth.

With more leaks coming up it's starting to be clear new additions are opening up avenues for more aggressive playstyle. New grand nation seems pretty nasty for offensive melee lumineth. The wind spirit is nasty assasin. Though needs FAQ and fast. As is if it doesn't get FAQ'ed it's practically invincible if you don't have shooting or magic(how do you kill guy that moves 12" in both players shooting phase if you can't shoot it?).

If new additions are any good less sentinel spams at least. Even if power level stays same more engaging gaming experience than the 80 sentinels that's the gold standard of lumineth atm.

Models up on the kiwi store. Wind furries move 24", Tyrion's emissary is a CP machine when Teclis is not on the field, Ballistas are sniper turrets, and Shrines are pretty much beefy, Order, scenery Balewind Vortexes. Also, the twins can be allies on any Order army and give the general at 3" a CP on a +4, yet they can never be generals on their own.

tneva82 wrote:
With more leaks coming up it's starting to be clear new additions are opening up avenues for more aggressive playstyle. New grand nation seems pretty nasty for offensive melee lumineth. The wind spirit is nasty assasin. Though needs FAQ and fast. As is if it doesn't get FAQ'ed it's practically invincible if you don't have shooting or magic(how do you kill guy that moves 12" in both players shooting phase if you can't shoot it?).

If new additions are any good less sentinel spams at least. Even if power level stays same more engaging gaming experience than the 80 sentinels that's the gold standard of lumineth atm.

Y'know, if you're going to post up about the new Grand Nations...bring some of that here. There's two of them and I'm interested!

The thing with the spirit being able to move in the opponent's shooting phase is obviously a typical GW proofreading /fail, if anyone actually tries to play it like that prior to the FAQ they should be shamed as "that guy" and I would certainly hope no TO would let them do it.

yukishiro1 wrote:
The thing with the spirit being able to move in the opponent's shooting phase is obviously a typical GW proofreading /fail, if anyone actually tries to play it like that prior to the FAQ they should be shamed as "that guy" and I would certainly hope no TO would let them do it.

Can we see how the rule is actually written before we leap to conclusions? It may well be deliberate.

Good golly, 45€ for five swordmasters...

 Dysartes wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
The thing with the spirit being able to move in the opponent's shooting phase is obviously a typical GW proofreading /fail, if anyone actually tries to play it like that prior to the FAQ they should be shamed as "that guy" and I would certainly hope no TO would let them do it.

Can we see how the rule is actually written before we leap to conclusions? It may well be deliberate.

From the warscroll:

Spirit of the Wind: A Spirit of the Wind never remains in one place for long.

At the end of the shooting phase, this model can make a normal move of 12" but cannot run (it can retreat). In addition, this model can retreat and still charge later in the same turn.

It's pretty clearly meant to be both your Shooting phase and the opposing player Shooting phase. There's another ability in there("Scour") that has a Designer's Note attached to it and the wording is the same as the Blood Sisters for Daughters of Khaine(with the exception being that Blood Sisters are "the combat phase" rather than "the shooting phase") and their "Turned to Crystal" ability.


Personally? It makes sense. It's a 10W, 5+ save model that has an additional 5+ W/MW 'shrug off' ability.

This "makes sense" ability will make it virtually invincible against any army that can't shoot it down. So basically slaves to darkness, fyreslayers, ogres unless underguts, sons of behemoth, most chaos armies etc flat out can't kill that unless lumineth player ALLOWS it to be killed.

If you're shooting at it, you're doing it wrong.

oh good, this batch of of models is chock full of "once per battle" abilities, like the army already didn't have book-keeping enough to make Battletech fans happy.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
The thing with the spirit being able to move in the opponent's shooting phase is obviously a typical GW proofreading /fail, if anyone actually tries to play it like that prior to the FAQ they should be shamed as "that guy" and I would certainly hope no TO would let them do it.

Can we see how the rule is actually written before we leap to conclusions? It may well be deliberate.

From the warscroll:

Spirit of the Wind: A Spirit of the Wind never remains in one place for long.

At the end of the shooting phase, this model can make a normal move of 12" but cannot run (it can retreat). In addition, this model can retreat and still charge later in the same turn.

It's pretty clearly meant to be both your Shooting phase and the opposing player Shooting phase. There's another ability in there("Scour") that has a Designer's Note attached to it and the wording is the same as the Blood Sisters for Daughters of Khaine(with the exception being that Blood Sisters are "the combat phase" rather than "the shooting phase") and their "Turned to Crystal" ability.


Personally? It makes sense. It's a 10W, 5+ save model that has an additional 5+ W/MW 'shrug off' ability.

Ok, the difference here is that the Blood Sisters' ability is more of an aura effect that has a very limited range and basically serves as a deterrance for prolonged combats with them...

While this thing gets to yeet itself about out of charge range of pretty much anything save some Slaaneshi units or the Cursed City Not A Varghulf Honest for free. HUGE Difference in payoff there really.

I think the regular wind spirit is tricky, but can be dealt with. My bigger concern is that armies with shooting will just... kill it. Like Eltharion it is a model that tends to be extremely powerful or decidedly poor based on matchup.

The special character version I think may be a problem, because he has enough extra stuff going on for it to be very difficult to play around, again unless the enemy army shoots well in which case he'll just die. Movement shenanigans can help, but eventually there is only going to be so much board space left to run to.

Looking across the new releases I keep thinking that the likes of Tzeentch, KO, and Seraphon are just going to obliterate them. It reinforces my initial perception that while they have a lot of cool tricks they just aren't that overpowered because they require proper tactical context to work. The raw power that some armies can unleash is a far bigger balance issue, and one we have already been dealing with.

Plus, Teclis & Sentinels are already the biggest cheese of the army and I don't see anything in the new releases that competes.

Well I am more interested in the lore and there seems to be some interesting things.

For those interested:

The Bladelord on the far left(red, bronze/gold armor) is Alumnia and the Bladelord on the far right(light green, white, silver) is Helon.

Love Alumnia and Helon colorscheme. Chrace and Deepkin vibes, respectively

Also, the dude in the middle is secretly a GSC member

I was thinking the orange one was borrowing a Rebel Alliance fighter pilot suit...