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Cronch wrote:
unlike the historically existing characters like Karl Franz and Nagash in the Old World setting..which were also created from nothing.

Totally true! But I think its hard to.argue that setting wise AoS is much better introducing new characters concepts.and races than the old world was.

I mean, I see no difference beyond nostalgia goggles really. At some point Sigmar was a brand new concept too.

Carlovonsexron wrote:

Cronch wrote:
unlike the historically existing characters like Karl Franz and Nagash in the Old World setting..which were also created from nothing.

Totally true! But I think its hard to.argue that setting wise AoS is much better introducing new characters concepts.and races than the old world was.

The advantage of being its own thing, compared to Warhammer’s origins as a sort of unifying rules set in which any 28ish Mm models could be used.

Not to mention The Old World was just a single planet. Sure they could’ve done something with Ind, Cathay and Nippon - but how do you have them scrapping with The Empire, Bretonnia etc? It’s a long and dangerous journey just to pick a fight, no?

AoS? Much more flexibility because Literally Anything Can Happen Because Magic. I know some think that’s a cop out, but I’d say it’s more about the implementation than the action.

Also?

Chonkity Chonk.

Looks like celestant 2.0 or lord celestant-ier however you want to call it.

The halo, furs and hammer are very similar to the Warhammer animations reveal but this mini seems to have a helmet on - this might be a rear view image going by the position of the hammer hand although the “eagle” ears are on the right (as viewed) in both.

They've been hinting at this box being similar to Indomitus rather than a starter set. Could very well just be that it has alternate heads.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They've been hinting at this box being similar to Indomitus rather than a starter set. Could very well just be that it has alternate heads.

Great does it mean sold out drama again?

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They've been hinting at this box being similar to Indomitus rather than a starter set. Could very well just be that it has alternate heads.

Great does it mean sold out drama again?

If they have any sense they'll Made To Order it again, but AoS doesn't print money the way Marines do.

So Lord Celestant in this new paladin armor?

 DaveC wrote:
The halo, furs and hammer are very similar to the Warhammer animations reveal but this mini seems to have a helmet on - this might be a rear view image going by the position of the hammer hand although the “eagle” ears are on the right (as viewed) in both.

Not sure of that's a helmet, they have previewed some of the alternate heads, one of which has the corn rows/dreadlocks/whatever you call them.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They've been hinting at this box being similar to Indomitus rather than a starter set. Could very well just be that it has alternate heads.

They straight out called it a 'launch box' on Warhammer Community:

What is Dominion, you ask? It’s the launch box for the new edition of Warhammer Age of Sigmar.

Which is the same thing that Warhammer Community called Indomitus:

You simply do not want to miss out on this amazing set, so it’s important to mention that, as it’s a special launch box to celebrate the new edition, it won’t be around forever.

 Theophony wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
The halo, furs and hammer are very similar to the Warhammer animations reveal but this mini seems to have a helmet on - this might be a rear view image going by the position of the hammer hand although the “eagle” ears are on the right (as viewed) in both.

Not sure of that's a helmet, they have previewed some of the alternate heads, one of which has the corn rows/dreadlocks/whatever you call them.

The placement of the spikes is very similar to the new Annihilators helmet and it has a similar profile but I do think it has alt heads.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They've been hinting at this box being similar to Indomitus rather than a starter set. Could very well just be that it has alternate heads.

Great does it mean sold out drama again?

Probably. Heavens forbid people ever just wait for things rather than playing StockHammer.

Carlovonsexron wrote:

Cronch wrote:
unlike the historically existing characters like Karl Franz and Nagash in the Old World setting..which were also created from nothing.

Totally true! But I think its hard to.argue that setting wise AoS is much better introducing new characters concepts.and races than the old world was.

I dont really see why. Most of the factions introduced in AOS could have easily been added to whfb

 streetsamurai wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:

Cronch wrote:
unlike the historically existing characters like Karl Franz and Nagash in the Old World setting..which were also created from nothing.

Totally true! But I think its hard to.argue that setting wise AoS is much better introducing new characters concepts.and races than the old world was.

I dont really see why. Most of the factions introduced in AOS could have easily been added to whfb

Yeah, it totally would have been easy to introduce a faction of skyfaring dwarfs or bone-constructs that are engaging in what is effectively calcium farming...

And that's not even getting into Stormcast.

If you've read my post more carefully instead of rushing in with your usual passive-aggressive snarky remarks, youd see that i said most, not all factions.

Ossiarch would have been really easy to add to WHFB. nagash wakes up and creates new minions. Doesnt take much more than that.

No arguments about skydwarves and stormcast. They wouldn't fit in the setting without major modifications (and to be honest, the KO don't really fit in AOs either lol)

Old World Dwarves had most of the tech AoS ones did, its just that they heavily regulated it and refused to use much of it. Save in the high seas where they did have metal clad boats and steam ships.

Thing is Dwarves and Elves in that setting were very much on the down; their lands sieged, most of their original holdings lost and dwindling populations. They were factions who had peaked and fallen on hard times and were resigned to their own version of end times whilst humanity had swelled to fill the void.

In AoS Elves and Dwarves are equal to humans. They all suffered during the Age of Chaos, but all are rebuilding and fighting for their corner in AoS. There isn't a faction that really has the doom-gloom "we are slowly coming to our end"

Even Idoneth are not resigned to defeat and are active in stealing souls to advance themselves .

Dwarves in WFB had helicopters and Zeppelins. Bonereapers could easily be the Nagash brand of undead (which they are in AoS anyway).

WFB had plenty of space for weird stuff coming in from the edges of the known world. Let's not pretend like AoS came to be because the creatives within GW felt constrained by a setting that had Eagle chariots and cyborg mutant rats.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:

Cronch wrote:
unlike the historically existing characters like Karl Franz and Nagash in the Old World setting..which were also created from nothing.

Totally true! But I think its hard to.argue that setting wise AoS is much better introducing new characters concepts.and races than the old world was.

The advantage of being its own thing, compared to Warhammer’s origins as a sort of unifying rules set in which any 28ish Mm models could be used.

Not to mention The Old World was just a single planet. Sure they could’ve done something with Ind, Cathay and Nippon - but how do you have them scrapping with The Empire, Bretonnia etc? It’s a long and dangerous journey just to pick a fight, no?

AoS? Much more flexibility because Literally Anything Can Happen Because Magic. I know some think that’s a cop out, but I’d say it’s more about the implementation than the action.

Well they did use that "cop out" more often than not in WHFB. Wood elves had forest portal, Dark Elves underworld tunnel that made travel much faster, and iirc lizardmen had some kind of portals also.

 streetsamurai wrote:
If you've read my post more carefully instead of rushing in with your usual passive-aggressive snarky remarks, youd see that i said most, not all factions.

Ossiarch would have been really easy to add to WHFB. nagash wakes up and creates new minions. Doesnt take much more than that.

No arguments about skydwarves and stormcast. They wouldn't fit in the setting without major modifications (and to be honest, the KO don't really fit in AOs either lol)

Well, skyships were already a thing, as were the metal facemasks. The specific Fallout-style vault suits would have stood out, but they do anyway.

Stormcast, would've just required Sigmar acting as a god, maybe making a deal with the Gods of Law to stop a chaos incursion or Nagash. It would've dulled the ongoing mystery if Sigmar was actually properly a god in the setting, but could have been finessed several ways. 'Warriors of Law' was already a concept floating around in the setting (if an atrophied one). That isn't where Sigmarines ultimately ended up, but the difference is basically serial numbers.


a simple time skip after the End Times could have cleared a lot of issues right up.

There was the Southern Chaos Waste were nothing really happened

Would have been perfect for Realm of Sigmar down south, with Sigmarines as the opposite of Chaos Warriors

 streetsamurai wrote:
If you've read my post more carefully instead of rushing in with your usual passive-aggressive snarky remarks, youd see that i said most, not all factions.

Then show your work. Because this commentary has been happening for ages, and it usually involves some convoluted nonsense to "make it fit" that destroys the identity of the army in question.

Idoneth, for example, don't fit into WHFB without some massive reworking of things. We know that "Sea Elves" were a thing there, but they didn't go around enslaving beasts to their will and keep themselves hidden.
Sylvaneth don't fit into WHFB without, again, massive reworks. The closest thing we have to the Revenants were the Tree-Kin, animated hulks of trees within the bounds of Athel Loren that have an Elf spirit animating them.

The more generic the concept of the AoS army, the easier it potentially is to make fit into WHFB...but even then it's not a surefire thing with any faction that isn't Chaos or Destruction.

Ossiarch would have been really easy to add to WHFB. nagash wakes up and creates new minions. Doesnt take much more than that.

Yeah, and let's remember how "well-received" the Morghast were in WHFB during the End Times?

There was a lot of complaining about that aesthetic and concept right off the bat(no vampire count puns intended).

No arguments about skydwarves and stormcast. They wouldn't fit in the setting without major modifications (and to be honest, the KO don't really fit in AOs either lol)

Overlords fit in AoS just fine since Realmgates are a thing.

Well they did use that "cop out" more often than not in WHFB. Wood elves had forest portal, Dark Elves underworld tunnel that made travel much faster, and iirc lizardmen had some kind of portals also.

The "forest portal" you're alluding to has been around for a looong time in the lore...and it's less "portal", more "root network".

People got mad when they added Ogre Kingdoms to WFB. "Oh, I guess they were there all along then?" "OMG muh retcons, GW so dumb" etc etc. Adding something like KO or Stormcast would have been unbearable.

Lets not forget that when Morghasts were "added" GW still had a LOT of old legacy models. Gamers always complain when new things appear when there are old things still in need of an update.

Even the new Necrons in 40K got complaints of "well what about Eldar" and "Necrons didn't need it" and such.


GW could have added almost everything they have now into Old World in some form; as noted just a 100 year time advance after the End Times would have done it. However this is beating a dead and old horse; Old World went and AoS came and it was more of a marketing and management choice than it was anything to do with the lore. Heck Old World had several major armies that were never ever developed outside of faction name references.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
If you've read my post more carefully instead of rushing in with your usual passive-aggressive snarky remarks, youd see that i said most, not all factions.

Then show your work. Because this commentary has been happening for ages, and it usually involves some convoluted nonsense to "make it fit" that destroys the identity of the army in question.

Idoneth, for example, don't fit into WHFB without some massive reworking of things. We know that "Sea Elves" were a thing there, but they didn't go around enslaving beasts to their will and keep themselves hidden.
Sylvaneth don't fit into WHFB without, again, massive reworks. The closest thing we have to the Revenants were the Tree-Kin, animated hulks of trees within the bounds of Athel Loren that have an Elf spirit animating them.

The more generic the concept of the AoS army, the easier it potentially is to make fit into WHFB...but even then it's not a surefire thing with any faction that isn't Chaos or Destruction.

Ossiarch would have been really easy to add to WHFB. nagash wakes up and creates new minions. Doesnt take much more than that.

Yeah, and let's remember how "well-received" the Morghast were in WHFB during the End Times?

There was a lot of complaining about that aesthetic and concept right off the bat(no vampire count puns intended).

No arguments about skydwarves and stormcast. They wouldn't fit in the setting without major modifications (and to be honest, the KO don't really fit in AOs either lol)

Overlords fit in AoS just fine since Realmgates are a thing.

Well they did use that "cop out" more often than not in WHFB. Wood elves had forest portal, Dark Elves underworld tunnel that made travel much faster, and iirc lizardmen had some kind of portals also.

The "forest portal" you're alluding to has been around for a looong time in the lore...and it's less "portal", more "root network".

There always was retcons in whfb. Adding idoneth, sylvaneth and Osseriarch wouldn't necessitate drastic changes to the setting. At least, far less than OK required

But anyway, im not interested in debating with you since you have this weird fetishism of always aggressively defending GW against any perceived criticisms (even if no criticisms are intended)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JSG wrote:
People got mad when they added Ogre Kingdoms to WFB. "Oh, I guess they were there all along then?" "OMG muh retcons, GW so dumb" etc etc. Adding something like KO or Stormcast would have been unbearable.

Who got mad?? A few nerds on the internet?? OK was a very popular army if im not mistaken

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Dwarves in WFB had helicopters and Zeppelins. Bonereapers could easily be the Nagash brand of undead (which they are in AoS anyway).

WFB had plenty of space for weird stuff coming in from the edges of the known world. Let's not pretend like AoS came to be because the creatives within GW felt constrained by a setting that had Eagle chariots and cyborg mutant rats.

Yes, and every time they did anything remotely new and out of ordinary people complained about it being too different.
Old World had nothing in it that made it worth keeping over AoS. AoS has nothing in it that is worth preserving over The Old World. Both are trashy fantasy settings existing only to sell toys.

I remember, back in the day, suggesting that dwarfs may deserve some of the interesting fantasy stuff that other factions had. Cavalry, monstrous infantry, monsters. Any sort of big centerpiece model that wasn't 2 dwarfs holding a shield for another dwarf to stand on...

There was some pretty harsh backlash to that thought on the forums I frequented.

There's always a segment of fans that embrace changes and a segment that resent it. That goes for every settings.

You just have to see the reactions to Krognos to realise that reticence to changes wasn't/isn't strictly a whfb thing

In so far as what would have and wouldn't have fit I know I would have been very displeased to see alot of the stuff associated with AoS to have come out for old Warhammer Fantasy. I mean I remember there were rumours of what would end up being the storm casts for a year or two (at least) before they came out of space marine style knights and everyone was just hating it.

Goodness, I still hate it- it's only with the redesign around the conrer that I'm willing to take look at them with fresh eyes, but I still think the lore is atrocious, as is sticking Sigmar's name on a faction that looks like the dream army of Lorenzo Lupo or the republic of Remas

I mean I think AoS has incredible design potential because it's story and setting ideas are so open ended. But the quality of those stories suffers because things aren't as detailed or exact as they were in the Old World setting.

It's hard for me to see a happy merger of the two, honestly.