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Isn´t their standard flamer S5? Dealing D6 flamer hits on Overwatch is also pretty neat. Daemon Ruinstorm will have a rough time charging firebreathing Salamanders.
Remember that you only get 1 overwatch / reaction per assault phase. That significantly weakens the salamanders' flamers.
Doesn´t matter much when the squad includes 10 flamers. 10 D6 hits at S5 are great.
tneva82 wrote: You expect somebody to actually play it like that?
How many 40k players ran and fired assault weapons? Despite rules clearly preventing it.
Strictly speaking, and assuming the opponent is numerate... yes, they should.
Do I expect that people will agree that the - in that sentence is there in error? Absolutely.
Do I find it hilarious that that sentence has apparently made it to print with such a basic mathematical misunderstanding in it? To quote Stone Cold Steve Austin, "Give me a hell yeah!"
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Yeah as a Salamander fan, they are so underwhelming. Their Legion rules are so weak in comparison to others. Almost as if they are a constant afterthought
How exactly is -1 to wound from four different weapon types and a 6+ it will not die "weak" I swear sometimes I think players just cry about everything because it's not OP as heck.
It's weak because it's never going to be used. How many flamers wounds will you get in a game ? Or how many melta will be shots at your infantry ?
They used to be resilient, and negate entire rules (fear, Sonic shriekers, etc).
Now, if, and only if, your opponent shoots at you with some very specific weapons, you are going to get special rules.
While others legions always play with theirs. It's weak because it's not used, except maybe for 10% of the shots you are going to endure.
Now, if it was the same rule, but against S4 weapons or bolts weapons, that would be a lot of fire, that would have been good actually.
I agree they kept the super flamers though, I read too quickly and didn't notice it was now specific weapons. That's at least a good thing they kept
All of those questions depend on the list I am playing and the narrative I am trying to follow. HH isn't a competitive game, it's a Narrative game. I think the rule is quite fine for that. If I bring nothing but infantry in my list, all those Volkite, flamers, plasma and melta shots will be heading straight for my infantry. I think there is a lot of overreaction to this.
A lot of legion rules can be situational, honestly. But there is more to a legion than just the legion ability. The special units and characters, along with warlord traits and advance reactions. They all work together. Besides, a legion shouldn't be completely defined by a single rule in order to box them into one playstyle. We are, after all, talking about legions, with tens of thousands of space marines.
Anyway, I'm a member of the Cult of Choom, so the Salamanders toughness against the Choom would hurt me. I suppose some people do play armies that have zero flamers, plasma, melta, and volkite. But that's just how it is. Sometimes you will face an army where your strengths don't matter.
Uhm, your conclusion is a bit off. If the Salamander´s traits funnel their opponent into not fielding certain weapons then it is a boon for the Salamanders not the other way around. Try hurting dreadnoughts which are in your face without melta weapons and you will have a bad day.
The same applies to most other legions. If you expect a specific build from your opponent and he fields an unusual force you will be at a disadvantage.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Yeah as a Salamander fan, they are so underwhelming. Their Legion rules are so weak in comparison to others. Almost as if they are a constant afterthought
How exactly is -1 to wound from four different weapon types and a 6+ it will not die "weak" I swear sometimes I think players just cry about everything because it's not OP as heck.
It's weak because it's never going to be used. How many flamers wounds will you get in a game ? Or how many melta will be shots at your infantry ?
They used to be resilient, and negate entire rules (fear, Sonic shriekers, etc).
Now, if, and only if, your opponent shoots at you with some very specific weapons, you are going to get special rules.
While others legions always play with theirs. It's weak because it's not used, except maybe for 10% of the shots you are going to endure.
Now, if it was the same rule, but against S4 weapons or bolts weapons, that would be a lot of fire, that would have been good actually.
I agree they kept the super flamers though, I read too quickly and didn't notice it was now specific weapons. That's at least a good thing they kept
Melta cannons, plasma cannons, plasma guns and volkite all wound salamanders on 3+ or 4+ instead of 2+ or 3+. Plasma also is only autowound ap2 Vs salamanders on a 5+... That's really bloody good.
Flamers are also common on solar and mechanicum, and flamer support squads are very cheap this edition.
If you want something to rage about have a look at the RG rules. They're almost completely useless.
Pretty much this.
Lets all simply collect Imperial Fists. Then we can clap each on our shoulders and brag all day how awesome we are.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/01 17:51:15
Strg Alt wrote: Doesn´t matter much when the squad includes 10 flamers. 10 D6 hits at S5 are great.
You're missing the point. If I only have one reaction in an entire assault phase but I'm being assaulted by multiple units, that "buff" to salamander flamers becomes inherantly weaker because it has to be balanced against other reactions I might otherwise need/want to make. If another reaction is the priority, suddenly that alleged "bonus" the salamander flamer has becomes 100% worthless. Just like their legion trait, it's not reliable or consistently applicable (You can't build an army around it).
If they'd done something smart like giving salamanders' flamers breaching 6+, then it would have been a flat buff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/01 18:02:00
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Yeah as a Salamander fan, they are so underwhelming. Their Legion rules are so weak in comparison to others. Almost as if they are a constant afterthought
How exactly is -1 to wound from four different weapon types and a 6+ it will not die "weak" I swear sometimes I think players just cry about everything because it's not OP as heck.
It's weak because it's never going to be used. How many flamers wounds will you get in a game ? Or how many melta will be shots at your infantry ?
They used to be resilient, and negate entire rules (fear, Sonic shriekers, etc).
Now, if, and only if, your opponent shoots at you with some very specific weapons, you are going to get special rules.
While others legions always play with theirs. It's weak because it's not used, except maybe for 10% of the shots you are going to endure.
Now, if it was the same rule, but against S4 weapons or bolts weapons, that would be a lot of fire, that would have been good actually.
I agree they kept the super flamers though, I read too quickly and didn't notice it was now specific weapons. That's at least a good thing they kept
All of those questions depend on the list I am playing and the narrative I am trying to follow. HH isn't a competitive game, it's a Narrative game. I think the rule is quite fine for that. If I bring nothing but infantry in my list, all those Volkite, flamers, plasma and melta shots will be heading straight for my infantry. I think there is a lot of overreaction to this.
A lot of legion rules can be situational, honestly. But there is more to a legion than just the legion ability. The special units and characters, along with warlord traits and advance reactions. They all work together. Besides, a legion shouldn't be completely defined by a single rule in order to box them into one playstyle. We are, after all, talking about legions, with tens of thousands of space marines.
Anyway, I'm a member of the Cult of Choom, so the Salamanders toughness against the Choom would hurt me. I suppose some people do play armies that have zero flamers, plasma, melta, and volkite. But that's just how it is. Sometimes you will face an army where your strengths don't matter.
Uhm, your conclusion is a bit off. If the Salamander´s traits funnel their opponent into not fielding certain weapons then it is a boon for the Salamanders not the other way around. Try hurting dreadnoughts which are in your face without melta weapons and you will have a bad day.
The same applies to most other legions. If you expect a specific build from your opponent and he fields an unusual force you will be at a disadvantage.
Were you intending to quote someone else? Because you're telling me my conclusion is off, but then repeating what I said?
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
This theory crafting is really showing that many don’t understand the game. Best case scenario of these flamer is you kill a unit. Which doesn’t mean as much as in 40K.
TwilightSparkles wrote: This theory crafting is really showing that many don’t understand the game. Best case scenario of these flamer is you kill a unit. Which doesn’t mean as much as in 40K.
What is different from killing a unit in 40K than in 30K?
Strg Alt wrote: Doesn´t matter much when the squad includes 10 flamers. 10 D6 hits at S5 are great.
You're missing the point. If I only have one reaction in an entire assault phase but I'm being assaulted by multiple units, that "buff" to salamander flamers becomes inherantly weaker because it has to be balanced against other reactions I might otherwise need/want to make. If another reaction is the priority, suddenly that alleged "bonus" the salamander flamer has becomes 100% worthless. Just like their legion trait, it's not reliable or consistently applicable (You can't build an army around it).
If they'd done something smart like giving salamanders' flamers breaching 6+, then it would have been a flat buff.
So this lone Salamander unit is assaulted by MULTIPLE units? Great overkill and a corner case. That´s in favour for the Salamander player as he can unload with his remaining units in those three units who just wiped out his specialist squad. It´s like in soccer: If you assign multiple defenders in order to try to stop a star player from the opposing team then his mates will have more freedom in the game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/01 20:16:16
Strg Alt wrote: So this lone Salamander unit is assaulted by MULTIPLE units? Great overkill and a corner case. That´s in favour for the Salamander player as he can unload with his remaining units in those three units who just wiped out his specialist squad. It´s like in soccer: If you assign multiple defenders in order to try to stop a star player from the opposing team then his mates will have more freedom in the game.
You get a single reaction in your opponent's given phase unless you gain another through a warlord trait or some other way. So that means if multiple units are assaulting multiple of your own in your opponent's assault phase, you can only react once total. So if your fire drakes are being assaulted in the same turn as your flamer support squad, you have to choose which to use your reaction on. Ergo, the flamer rule is not that great.
For what it's worth, spoke with my FLGS this morning and it turns out that she was having a hard time getting copies of the box through her rep. Apparently the game is selling like hot cakes already. She was told by her rep that he'd almost run out of allotment, and hadn't even made it half way through his list of game stores yet. She managed to get four copies of the books and the boxes.
In the US everything is being ratio'd. As I understand it a case is 2 Age of Darkness boxes. Each case gets you 1 copy of the Loyalist and Traitor rulebooks. Every 2 cases (if I understood correctly, store manager wasn't entirely clear at this point and made some semi self-contradictory statements from my understanding) gets you 1 Kratos, 1 Deimos, 1 special weapon set, 1 heavy weapon set, etc.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
lord_blackfang wrote: Sooo you have a wall of Str5 flamers but you choose not to take the warlord trait that lets you use it twice a turn?
Well it's the Traitor Only option which probably keeps anyone who wants to run Vulkan from using it.
Yup. And the warlord trait that gives you access to immunity to fear / buffs against pinning is a shooting reaction. So I stand by what I said.
With that being said, the option to run a traitor force is fun in its own way, as it suddenly opens up salamanders' moritats and destroyers. And I just noticed that both flavours of destroyers can take dual hand flamers. Hilarious.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/01 23:55:32
Yeah, Herrick Games started taking preorders online yesterday, saying they needed to get their numbers to GW asap in order to get enough copies for launch day.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
This might seem a bit daft but I don't know much about HH game wise so bear with me.
From the sound of there is a generic marine list and the different legions just modify that? All the leaks I've seen are Legion specific but I haven't seen any list of basic jump pack troops, land speeders, or outriders but I know those models exist. I would hate to start planning out an army just to find out they can't have land speeders, or something similar.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Ahtman wrote: This might seem a bit daft but I don't know much about HH game wise so bear with me.
From the sound of there is a generic marine list and the different legions just modify that? All the leaks I've seen are Legion specific but I haven't seen any list of basic jump pack troops, land speeders, or outriders but I know those models exist. I would hate to start planning out an army just to find out they can't have land speeders, or something similar.
Everyone has the same core units and full access to the same basic units with Legion Traits pushing you to certain units over others based on where your synergies like (for example Night Lords like bulky models because they make it easier to outnumber the opponent to trigger Talent for Murder). The legion specific units are more obviously locked to each legion and are outside of the shared core units.
chaos0xomega wrote: In the US everything is being ratio'd. As I understand it a case is 2 Age of Darkness boxes. Each case gets you 1 copy of the Loyalist and Traitor rulebooks. Every 2 cases (if I understood correctly, store manager wasn't entirely clear at this point and made some semi self-contradictory statements from my understanding) gets you 1 Kratos, 1 Deimos, 1 special weapon set, 1 heavy weapon set, etc.
That does differ from what my LGS reported. They managed to get 5 copies of each of the upgrades, bought no deimos, no Kratos and some extra books from the sound of it.
I'm sure we'll be fine here, my FLGS has a deal with the devil* for sure. When everyone was pulling their hair out over Cursed City we had a stack of them up to the ceiling.
*the best part of this anaglogy is that the devil is GW
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Man, the Jubilee Weekend in the U.K. has thrown me off. I have to keep reminding myself it’s only Thursday morning, and so I’ve plenty of time to put gubbins up for sale to potentially fund a copy of this game!
Think I’m going to head to Ashford, as I wouldn’t say no to the full smorgasbord of pre-order trinkets.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Tannhauser42 wrote: Yeah, Herrick Games started taking preorders online yesterday, saying they needed to get their numbers to GW asap in order to get enough copies for launch day.
The FLGS I prordered with put theirs up the day it was announced because they needed to get their numbers in by the 31st(two days ago).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/02 09:37:39
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Looks good. Personally I would have preshaded the metallic with a black wash and then drybrushed the metal back on rather than doing the recess shade with Akhelian Green.
Also one thing I want to try is Juan Hidalgo's method of using a thinned down warp lightning to add a blue-green gradient, like in this video...
He does a lot of cool stuff in that vid, I'm just talking about the step at 9:15 where he adds the green.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/02 12:02:17
chaos0xomega wrote: In the US everything is being ratio'd. As I understand it a case is 2 Age of Darkness boxes. Each case gets you 1 copy of the Loyalist and Traitor rulebooks. Every 2 cases (if I understood correctly, store manager wasn't entirely clear at this point and made some semi self-contradictory statements from my understanding) gets you 1 Kratos, 1 Deimos, 1 special weapon set, 1 heavy weapon set, etc.
That does differ from what my LGS reported. They managed to get 5 copies of each of the upgrades, bought no deimos, no Kratos and some extra books from the sound of it.
I don't see how it differs. The books, upgrades, deimos/kratos aren't automatic, you still need to add them to your order, but you're capped at a max quantity of those other items based on the number of cases of Age of Darkness you order in accordance with the ratio I indicated (roughly) - although another local store owner did mention to me yesterday that their rep did allow them to add a single extra special weapon set to their order above their ratio limit, so it might not be a hard and fast rule and instead a general sales guideline that they are being told to generally follow.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
RazorEdge wrote: She used Abbadon Black from the pot after basecoat with Spray.
that's a GW thing.
in a recent Masterclass video, Louise said:
"our first stage is going to be to prime the miniature in chaos black, but then we're going to add a thin layer of abaddon black over the miniature as well.
we're doing this just because the primer has a slightly different finish to our range of potted paints, so applying that thin layer of abaddon black is just going to mean all our paints later have the same consistency."
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke