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 ZergSmasher wrote:
I finally met someone a few days ago who has had the virus and since recovered. She said it really sucks and she had to be on a respirator for a few days. Literally the first person I've met who had it.

It can be hard to meet people who've had it; some take social distancing way too seriously and put six feet of earth between themselves and others in order to maintain it!

Yeah I know I got an extra minute in hell for that one...

Well herd immunity without vaccine was always fantasy.

And in Tulsa where trump held rally 2 weeks ago corona cases have started to grow up in numbers. Surprise surprise

And good example of how interconnected economies are. Sweden didn't put any restrictions in place to protect their economy yet aren"tt doing much better with economy shrinking and unemployment growing. Doesn't help much if you don't put in restrictions when countries around do. Imports/exports/tourism will take a dent anyway

I thought airborne transmission was always on the cards, to be honest. I mean I didn't think it had ever been ruled out.

Soo like
In my area, its close to time for schools to open up. With each district deciding itself
This in, one of the counties that the govenor has put on a watch list, with my town regularly getin 100+ new cases a day.
Why is it so hard for people to understand to Stay Inside? That opening things up and getting flow through, will make things worse.
Kids can learn from the computer, this entire summer i have been teaching kids as young as 3 on the computer.
Keep the kids home, let them learn off the computer. Create safe and effective ways for communities without internet to access their work.
STAY INSIDE PEOPLE!!!!

I always thought airborne was the primary way of getting it, along with surface contact like touching elevator buttons. Right now i'm wishing I didn't live in LA as this seems to be the worst place to be right now. This place was bad enough before a pandemic, with all the traffic and ridiculous cost of living.

The worry is that if airborne particles are a factor, barriers like perspex screens between tables are not 100% effective.

I mean, nothing is 100% effective, of course, but if current anti-virus protection is based on the idea that there is no airborne transmission, then obviously there could be a problem.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kids can learn from the computer, this entire summer i have been teaching kids as young as 3 on the computer.
Keep the kids home, let them learn off the computer. Create safe and effective ways for communities without internet to access their work.
STAY INSIDE PEOPLE!!!!

There are a huge numbers of kids in the UK without internet access on a computer. The news is reporting that lots are working off a phone, or sharing that phone around 6 kids.
People only now look to be donating old computers for them to access from, but the process of wiping them and getting a basic operating system onto them it taking a lot of work.

Yes, that was on the BBC yesterday.

There was a good article in the newspaper about the difficulties of working from home and schooling at home with two primary age children.

South Korea distributed 350,000 devices to poor families back in April. They've also got 100% high-speed synchronous broadband.

Most of the UK is on low-speed asynchronous broadband, which isn't much good for working and learning at home.

In terms of remote working, it’s all but confirmed I’ll never have to revisit the office unless there’s specific training or a meeting I need to attend.

I’ve got to tell you, this is mega for me. Like, seriously mega. Better work life balance. Less money spent on my commute, which in turn I can spend locally. More gaming time (after 8 years, I need it). The positive impact on the old mental health cannot be underestimated.

Hell, I can even do long weekends visiting my Dad without burning annual leave!


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Also booked in for a haircut....25 July 2020 at 6am. So I’ll be greeting 9th Ed without split ends! Hopefully.

First cut in around two years. Down past my shoulders now, so can afford to lose a wee bit of length for sake of tidiness.

 Thargrim wrote:
I always thought airborne was the primary way of getting it, along with surface contact like touching elevator buttons. Right now i'm wishing I didn't live in LA as this seems to be the worst place to be right now. This place was bad enough before a pandemic, with all the traffic and ridiculous cost of living.

Yeah, I've been a bit confused by the "it's airborne" news too. From the descriptions I've been seeing of it, it's no different to what they were warning against previously as far as how an infected person could spread the virus indoors. The BBC even used exactly the same graphic they used months ago to explain the spread indoors.

It's basically the difference between virus particles briefly hanging in the air contained within droplets of mucus / saliva, which only hang in the air for a little while before settling; and aerosol transmission where tiny droplets evaporate before they hit the ground, leaving particles that can float freely around in the air for half an hour or so.

tneva82 wrote:
Well herd immunity without vaccine was always fantasy.

And in Tulsa where trump held rally 2 weeks ago corona cases have started to grow up in numbers. Surprise surprise

And good example of how interconnected economies are. Sweden didn't put any restrictions in place to protect their economy yet aren"tt doing much better with economy shrinking and unemployment growing. Doesn't help much if you don't put in restrictions when countries around do. Imports/exports/tourism will take a dent anyway

It's odd that trump's events are leading to surges in covid while the massive open air blm protests seem not to be. This really should be looked into. I have no easy explanation.


I think we'll eventually see covid lead to mobile personal quarantine and isolation devices people can buy and use to go out without risking covid. Probably something like this:


And yes, I'm kinda mocking covid. People may say it's disrespectful of it's victims. After being afraid of something long enough some people get fear fatigue and just feel a desire to mock it. I'm one.

Well, the BLM March I was on comprised maybe a couple of thousand people (not bad for a small town) - the vast majority of whom were wearing PPE.

Efforts were made to ensure Social Distancing, and it was entirely outside. So there weren’t exactly surfaces to get sneezed or coughed on that someone else would then come into contact with.

I’m not aware of a resulting local uptick in infection rates, as my town still has the lowest in our County.

Basically, my anecdotal evidence is that when people take it seriously, and take whatever precautions they can? It works.

 Matt Swain wrote:
It's odd that trump's events are leading to surges in covid while the massive open air blm protests seem not to be. This really should be looked into. I have no easy explanation.

Average age of attendees are going to be radically different. Ideological differences probablyMake people at protests more likely to take PPE more seriously, again on average. Probably quite a lot of Trump rally attendees, in some states, anyway, who've spent lives in occupations that might be detrimental to their respiratory systems, too?

EDIT: that said, the wider social context may have far more to do with it. Have most of Trump's rallies been in the states that have most heavily relaxed social distancing? Are their outbreaks confidently attributed to the rallies themselves?

tneva82 wrote:
Well herd immunity without vaccine was always fantasy.

And in Tulsa where trump held rally 2 weeks ago corona cases have started to grow up in numbers. Surprise surprise

And good example of how interconnected economies are. Sweden didn't put any restrictions in place to protect their economy yet aren"tt doing much better with economy shrinking and unemployment growing. Doesn't help much if you don't put in restrictions when countries around do. Imports/exports/tourism will take a dent anyway

A .3% decrease in GDP in the first quarter (Sweden) is quite significantly better than a .9% loss in GDP (Finland) or 2.1% (Denmark) in the same period.

https://www.focus-economics.com/countries/denmark/news/gdp/economy-contracts-in-q1-worse-to-come-in-q2

https://www.focus-economics.com/countries/finland/news/gdp/economy-records-sharpest-contraction-since-q1-2015

https://www.focus-economics.com/countries/sweden/news/gdp/preliminary-data-shows-economy-contracted-in-q1-2020

I'm not sure that dressing as either Ant or Dec is going to be of much hel....

...oohhhhh

Well there were those few Darleks doing the rounds telling people to self isolate. If we built enough of them yes we could create a future where we all live within our own armoured shell! With a custom iGrabber on one side and an iPlunger on the other (since I would assume that guns/lasers/whiskspray guns would be reserved fro the miliary/police)

Slipspace wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
I always thought airborne was the primary way of getting it, along with surface contact like touching elevator buttons. Right now i'm wishing I didn't live in LA as this seems to be the worst place to be right now. This place was bad enough before a pandemic, with all the traffic and ridiculous cost of living.

Yeah, I've been a bit confused by the "it's airborne" news too. From the descriptions I've been seeing of it, it's no different to what they were warning against previously as far as how an infected person could spread the virus indoors. The BBC even used exactly the same graphic they used months ago to explain the spread indoors.

Airborne vs droplets. Airborne is worse. Way worse.

Voss wrote:


Unfortunately, the general protests that are also going on have reached us. An Antifa threat over July 4th and flag burnings had counter-protesters show up (but no antifa), and the counter-protesters were well and openly armed, and social distancing and masks was not in their bag (luckily there were no incidents this year- two years back a similar event had some idiot shoot himself in the thigh with his holstered pistol). So this weekend, BLM is staging a counter-counter protest in the traffic circle in the center of town this weekend, while the local Harley Davidson dealership is hosting an anniversary event, which will inevitably draw a lot of the armed counter-protesters back. [Particularly since Bike Week is usually happening this week anyway, for all that its 'officially' cancelled]

We had a similar situation in our own little town. A BLM and pro-Trump/2A rally at the same time and place in our little town square. It turned out fine, and the virus didn't even seem to kick up because of it.

The big spreader was at a local tourist attraction instead. That is where we had a local outbreak that really ramped up the spread within our community.

Wearing an Ant or Dec mask might be a good idea.



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I can imagine a future in which we all wear battery powered helmets which filter the air we breathe.


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Quite the opportunity for Dyson!

Yeah Dyson should be all over that. They need something now that they abandoned their car project...shame that.

Crispy78 wrote:
It's basically the difference between virus particles briefly hanging in the air contained within droplets of mucus / saliva, which only hang in the air for a little while before settling; and aerosol transmission where tiny droplets evaporate before they hit the ground, leaving particles that can float freely around in the air for half an hour or so.

Yeah, that.

With direct contact, you at least can see who's nearby, so you can avoid them. With aerosol, if you don't know who's been where you are for the last whatever amount of time, you risk infection, although risk is higher in a closed environment.

So, suppose you're a teacher teaching inside a building that hasn't been retrofitted for ventilation (and most schools haven't, because this costs money). Another staff member or even a teenager (teens have been found to carry virus loads the same as adults and have higher rates of infection than children but less than adults) is infected and has been in that area (say, a restroom). They leave, you don't know that they've been there, you use the same space. Congrats. You've just exposed yourself to the virus and risk infection.

In the USA, restaurants opening up around here have open air seating. But pubs and clubs (and gyms, stores, etc.) are still indoors, and, besides the inability to maintain the six feet distance (which, iirc, was based on studies of similar viruses, not CoVid itself), you now may be exposed to aerosol droplets that the last guy had at the table you just found a seat at.

It's fairly obvious that if the virus particles are contained in small droplets of saliva and mucus ejected by coughing, they will also be contained in microscopic particles ejected through normal breathing. Every breath you exhale contains moisture.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's fairly obvious that if the virus particles are contained in small droplets of saliva and mucus ejected by coughing, they will also be contained in microscopic particles ejected through normal breathing. Every breath you exhale contains moisture.

Not that obvious. You can have droplet spread without aerosol. So far evidence points toward no aerosol more than yes but not conclusive.

One big evidence against is it not spreading that much especially in hospitals. Were it spread by aerosol spream should be lot bigger

It is really a debate of where the line on particle size which can carry the virus is drawn.

The other day I saw Richard Quest (who had coronavirus) on CNN asking an expert if the lingering symptoms he’s suffering from are permanent. She said that atm they just couldn’t say, and you could see the crushing disappointment in his eyes. I actually felt for him I really did.

Has anyone here had it, and if so how are you feeling now?

One big evidence against is it not spreading that much especially in hospitals. Were it spread by aerosol spream should be lot bigger

IIRC, 40% of the original Wuhan virus infections were through hospitals. And the virus has been found on doorknobs and even floor surfaces of wards with infectious patients.

However, that was quite awhile ago, so I was curious what's the latest on hospital infections through hospitals. Found these articles.

****

Coronavirus Can Spread Through a Hospital in 10 Hours, Study Finds

"The study published in the Journal of Hospital Infection last month examined how quickly a virus strain spreads in hospital settings amid precautions taken to regularly sterilize surfaces and use personal protective equipment. .. After researchers put the virus on the rail of a hospital bed at London's Great Ormond Street Hospital in a room designed for patients infected with COVID-19 and other contagious illnesses, they said the virus spread to 41 percent of all sampled locations within the ward after 10 hours, and to 59 percent of all sampled locations within three days."

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/in-depth/coronavirus-can-spread-through-a-hospital-in-10-hours-study-finds/ar-BB15gmaB

This was a surface-based transmission, not aerosol, though. Still, suggests that even hospital-levels of safety can't be assumed to be entirely safe.

*****

Coronavirus UK: 20 per cent of virus cases spread through hospitals : Research has shown 20 per cent of the UK’s COVID-19 patients got the virus while in hospital for unrelated illnesses.

"Up to a fifth of COVID-19 patients in the UK’s hospitals contracted the disease while already being treated there for an unrelated illness, National Health Service (NHS) bosses have revealed. ... Patients with coronavirus, and hospital staff were unaware they had the virus and displaying no symptoms, were responsible for the infections. ... Recent research among staff in north England hospitals run by a leading NHS trust also found that 7 per cent of staff had coronavirus but were showing no symptoms, posing a risk to patients."

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/coronavirus-uk-20-per-cent-of-virus-cases-spread-through-hospitals/news-story/dff32ea31ab8d5ddf8c6a7914e460073

I guess 20% is better than 40%. No mention of aerosol transmission. If anyone can find more articles, please post.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
The other day I saw Richard Quest (who had coronavirus) on CNN asking an expert if the lingering symptoms he’s suffering from are permanent. She said that atm they just couldn’t say, and you could see the crushing disappointment in his eyes. I actually felt for him I really did.

Something like long term lung damage where you can't get enough breath and might be out of breath even just doing basic things like walking to the end of the road are life changing conditions. They not only impact your health, they specifically prevent you taking part in many normal activities. Stopping you from doing things you once loved and also preventing you doing new things that you wanted to do. Those are the kind of things that can take a very long time to come to terms with and you might never. They can also lead to other health problems very quickly like weight issues.

One can hope to recover or that new medical advances might aid recovery, right now its very hard to say how people will recover in the medium to long term and its got to be crushing to think that one little sickness, one thing that you got for a few days is going to suddenly lead to sucha dramatic negative change in your life.

Well, accodring to the article before, lung damage and blood clotting, so doubly fethed if you got genetical issues with your blood for long term.

 Matt Swain wrote:
It's odd that trump's events are leading to surges in covid while the massive open air blm protests seem not to be. This really should be looked into. I have no easy explanation.

I think the key words there are "open air", for one. There are a lot of protests, but they are much smaller - the biggest protest has a few hundred people at best. They're all outside, and generally from the photos I have seen, they're wearing masks - perhaps not 100% but mask usage is predominant.

The other event was indoors, and even at a unprecedented 6000 attendees far larger than any protest, virtually no one was wearing a mask, and the social distancing stickers were removed to cram people together to make the crowd look bigger.

So, there are obvious, substantial differences.