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 Future War Cultist wrote:
They’re just anti government contrarian prats. I would happily bet money that if for some reason the situation was completely reversed and wearing masks was publicly banned, those exact same spankers who’ve been refusing to wear them so far would be down city hall demanding the right to wear them and making asses out of themselves in the bargain.

XD Please don't give trump any ideas.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
I honestly don't get how a mask/face covering is any different from other required safety equipment most of us use all the time. Are seat belts, crash helmets, life jackets, hard hats, high vis vests, safety goggles and boots ect all an infringement on our freedoms as well?

In my state, one of the few that allows this, a helmet is not required on a motorcycle. Bikers will foam at the mouth here if you suggest they wear one so they survive a crash. Most of them go on about freedom and waking up in America, but when you quiz them on specifics of the Constitution, they generally don't know what it actually says..

Ah. Same here. This is Bike Week around these parts too. So many morons sans helmets. Also in shorts and t-shirts as well, which always makes me think of shredded meat stretched out across a highway.


Speaking of which, the motorcyclists [at their 'unofficial' event, that happens to correspond with the yearly official event] decided to join in on the BLM protest and 'militia' counter-protest today (the latter being openly armed in many cases, because Open Carry laws say that's fine). Made it extra fun. Tense, but happily no major incidents.
A fair number of folks weren't wearing masks, though, in all three groups. Neither were various tourists who wandered through the camera shots, as they tried to navigate sidewalks at the town square through crowds of protesters on opposing street corners.

Bullet dodged for immediate consequences, but we'll see what the statistics are like in 8-14 days.

Voss wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
I honestly don't get how a mask/face covering is any different from other required safety equipment most of us use all the time. Are seat belts, crash helmets, life jackets, hard hats, high vis vests, safety goggles and boots ect all an infringement on our freedoms as well?

In my state, one of the few that allows this, a helmet is not required on a motorcycle. Bikers will foam at the mouth here if you suggest they wear one so they survive a crash. Most of them go on about freedom and waking up in America, but when you quiz them on specifics of the Constitution, they generally don't know what it actually says..

Ah. Same here. This is Bike Week around these parts too. So many morons sans helmets. Also in shorts and t-shirts as well, which always makes me think of shredded meat stretched out across a highway.


Speaking of which, the motorcyclists [at their 'unofficial' event, that happens to correspond with the yearly official event] decided to join in on the BLM protest and 'militia' counter-protest today (the latter being openly armed in many cases, because Open Carry laws say that's fine). Made it extra fun. Tense, but happily no major incidents.
A fair number of folks weren't wearing masks, though, in all three groups. Neither were various tourists who wandered through the camera shots, as they tried to navigate sidewalks at the town square through crowds of protesters on opposing street corners.

Bullet dodged for immediate consequences, but we'll see what the statistics are like in 8-14 days.

there is one big difference in the analogy though.

People refusing to wear helmets will help kill only them.

People refusing to wear masks will help kill people around them.

You should wear a helmet, but if you're a loon shouting about how god made your perfect head and its immoral to wear one, you know, whatever. It'll only effect you. If you're doing the same thing about masks, you're risking the health of everyone you interact with.

So, I decided to venture out to my local train store to grab some glue that i couldnt get elsewhere.
This is a small shop, imagine around your average 2 table GW store.
People where wearing masks, but no one had it over their nose, defeating the damn point.
Then, I went to hobby lobby to pick up some paint, Again, no mask over nose, one guiy even had it so his mask was just on his chin.
Went to my FLGS, no masks from employees either. or the local liquer.
People, it isnt the end of the world, wear a mask, unless you are spending hours a day, its only a few minutes, they are not making you do it outside.

consideirng inside is more dangerous than outside ....

Dukeofstuff wrote:

Point is, stay off that bus till someone removes the windows. If you can, write in and tell the bus people they must do so if they ever want riders back to pour money on their death wagon industry.

All very easy sitting in an ivory tower discussing on a forum to say "don't use buses".

Problem is, that especially here in the UK, many of us don't have a choice. We don't all have the means to work from home. Most people live more than 5 miles from their workplace. Nor are we all able to just jump in the car and go off on a jolly good old drive.

There are quite a large number of people, in the UK, who do not drive for one reason or another and are reliant on public transport. And now we're all being expected to go back to work with a decimated public transport system, that was barely functional in the first place.


Our short-sighted govt., the media, and anyone with a car, would rather sweep that issue under the carpet.


The longer this pandemic goes on, the more it is highlighting the selfishness of people, particularly here in the UK.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
They’re just anti government contrarian prats. I would happily bet money that if for some reason the situation was completely reversed and wearing masks was publicly banned, those exact same spankers who’ve been refusing to wear them so far would be down city hall demanding the right to wear them and making asses out of themselves in the bargain.

It's happening. Not government but businesses.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/southern-calif-store-owner-who-banned-masks-in-shop-says-hes-being-harassed-over-coronavirus-beliefs

Of course fox is portraying him as a victim.


https://nypost.com/2020/05/19/kentucky-convenience-store-posts-no-face-masks-allowed-sign/

Who runs this store? Beavis and butthead?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, I decided to venture out to my local train store to grab some glue that i couldnt get elsewhere.
This is a small shop, imagine around your average 2 table GW store.
People where wearing masks, but no one had it over their nose, defeating the damn point.
Then, I went to hobby lobby to pick up some paint, Again, no mask over nose, one guiy even had it so his mask was just on his chin.
Went to my FLGS, no masks from employees either. or the local liquer.
People, it isnt the end of the world, wear a mask, unless you are spending hours a day, its only a few minutes, they are not making you do it outside.

I actually had to look up tricks to keep my glasses from fogging up constantly and forcing me to pull down my mask just to see things. Real frustrating. Literally have to tape my mask down if I'm going extended period with a mask on.

regular masks also have issues if you've got a beard because not only are they not a perfect seal anyway; but the beard will steadily push the mask upward. Forget needing a noseband to keep it down; the mask keeps riding up under your eyes.

 Overread wrote:
regular masks also have issues if you've got a beard because not only are they not a perfect seal anyway; but the beard will steadily push the mask upward. Forget needing a noseband to keep it down; the mask keeps riding up under your eyes.

Then shave your beard. Hardly a hardship. Too many people making selfish excuses when it comes to wearing masks - if it is necessary to wear them, get on with it.

Rob Lee wrote:

 Overread wrote:
regular masks also have issues if you've got a beard because not only are they not a perfect seal anyway; but the beard will steadily push the mask upward. Forget needing a noseband to keep it down; the mask keeps riding up under your eyes.

Then shave your beard. Hardly a hardship. Too many people making selfish excuses when it comes to wearing masks - if it is necessary to wear them, get on with it.

Eh the difference is marginal when you're wearing the general casual masks and a cloth one that wraps around is more covering. It would only make a difference if I was wearing the N35 or similar classes of mask - ergo those that block all in and out going air and have a filtered breather. Your standard cheap mask is only stopping my breath infecting others by spreading it around far less - even with the noseband there's still gaps around the face with that kind of mask.

 Overread wrote:

Rob Lee wrote:

 Overread wrote:
regular masks also have issues if you've got a beard because not only are they not a perfect seal anyway; but the beard will steadily push the mask upward. Forget needing a noseband to keep it down; the mask keeps riding up under your eyes.

Then shave your beard. Hardly a hardship. Too many people making selfish excuses when it comes to wearing masks - if it is necessary to wear them, get on with it.

Eh the difference is marginal when you're wearing the general casual masks and a cloth one that wraps around is more covering. It would only make a difference if I was wearing the N35 or similar classes of mask - ergo those that block all in and out going air and have a filtered breather. Your standard cheap mask is only stopping my breath infecting others by spreading it around far less - even with the noseband there's still gaps around the face with that kind of mask.

N95 class masks. And yet it is becoming mandatory in many places to wear a mask.

So, like I said, if it's necessary, i.e. mandatory, get on with it. People need to stop whining, making selfish excuses, and do their bit, if only to limit the impact on others! I know it's a novel concept to many but by helping others you help yourself.

stratigo wrote:
I actually had to look up tricks to keep my glasses from fogging up constantly and forcing me to pull down my mask just to see things. Real frustrating. Literally have to tape my mask down if I'm going extended period with a mask on.

What works for me is lifting my glasses, tightening the nose clip tight across the top of your nose, and then sitting the glasses down atop the mask. If your glasses are fogging up, then your mask is not tight enough across the top. I know some people have limited mask availability so you may not be able to get a better seal.

I went in it for lunch with a mate yesterday! First time in a cafe since lockdown began. First off my stomach is in turmoil today which shows that 4 months of solid home cooking is better than I thought for the digestive system! Second, no one was wearing masks. We went to a bar over in the east of the city were my friend lives. I’m pretty isolated where I live but I have to say I was fairly surprised as I drove across the city at the lack of masks.

Surely wearing a mask is pretty easy. I wear one quite a bit during the day for tasks on farm. Not that hard. Although I have to laugh if you told me 20 years ago anyone would be advising people to wear masks in Belfast I would have thought you were mad. The whole city grew up terrified of men in masks!

In fairness if you're eating wearing a mask is kind of pointless. Staff certainly could/should be wearing them, but diners its not really practical. Which does raise the question about eating inside at present.

does belfast have a notable CV outbreak?

stratigo wrote:
does belfast have a notable CV outbreak?

No I think we are pretty low in comparison to the rest of the uk. I didn’t wear one either, in truth I forgot about it. I only remembered when I saw one person in a mask. I just assumed from all the chat that loads of people would be in one.

 Overread wrote:

Rob Lee wrote:

 Overread wrote:
regular masks also have issues if you've got a beard because not only are they not a perfect seal anyway; but the beard will steadily push the mask upward. Forget needing a noseband to keep it down; the mask keeps riding up under your eyes.

Then shave your beard. Hardly a hardship. Too many people making selfish excuses when it comes to wearing masks - if it is necessary to wear them, get on with it.

Eh the difference is marginal when you're wearing the general casual masks and a cloth one that wraps around is more covering. It would only make a difference if I was wearing the N35 or similar classes of mask - ergo those that block all in and out going air and have a filtered breather. Your standard cheap mask is only stopping my breath infecting others by spreading it around far less - even with the noseband there's still gaps around the face with that kind of mask.

Which is point. Prevent you from spreading virus. Not to prevent you from catching it

 Ouze wrote:

stratigo wrote:
I actually had to look up tricks to keep my glasses from fogging up constantly and forcing me to pull down my mask just to see things. Real frustrating. Literally have to tape my mask down if I'm going extended period with a mask on.

What works for me is lifting my glasses, tightening the nose clip tight across the top of your nose, and then sitting the glasses down atop the mask. If your glasses are fogging up, then your mask is not tight enough across the top. I know some people have limited mask availability so you may not be able to get a better seal.

When I've been wearing a mask at work, I tend to remove the crappy thin metal strip from the top edge and replace it with a straightened paperclip. It's that bit stiffer and holds its shape better, which helps it conform round my face more closely and stops my glasses fogging. We've got anti-fog wipes too, but I didn't find them that effective.

stratigo wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
I honestly don't get how a mask/face covering is any different from other required safety equipment most of us use all the time. Are seat belts, crash helmets, life jackets, hard hats, high vis vests, safety goggles and boots ect all an infringement on our freedoms as well?

In my state, one of the few that allows this, a helmet is not required on a motorcycle. Bikers will foam at the mouth here if you suggest they wear one so they survive a crash. Most of them go on about freedom and waking up in America, but when you quiz them on specifics of the Constitution, they generally don't know what it actually says..

Ah. Same here. This is Bike Week around these parts too. So many morons sans helmets. Also in shorts and t-shirts as well, which always makes me think of shredded meat stretched out across a highway.


Speaking of which, the motorcyclists [at their 'unofficial' event, that happens to correspond with the yearly official event] decided to join in on the BLM protest and 'militia' counter-protest today (the latter being openly armed in many cases, because Open Carry laws say that's fine). Made it extra fun. Tense, but happily no major incidents.
A fair number of folks weren't wearing masks, though, in all three groups. Neither were various tourists who wandered through the camera shots, as they tried to navigate sidewalks at the town square through crowds of protesters on opposing street corners.

Bullet dodged for immediate consequences, but we'll see what the statistics are like in 8-14 days.

there is one big difference in the analogy though.

People refusing to wear helmets will help kill only them.

People refusing to wear masks will help kill people around them.

You should wear a helmet, but if you're a loon shouting about how god made your perfect head and its immoral to wear one, you know, whatever. It'll only effect you. If you're doing the same thing about masks, you're risking the health of everyone you interact with.

I wasn't really making an analogy.

But, to me its an outgrowth of the same thing. People are spoiled children. They have to be forced to take measures to save lives, whether its stranger's lives, their friend's lives, family lives or their own lives. Way too many people have made it clear that their illusions and delusions are far more important than any amount of lives. So it has to be coerced with threats and penalties, same way you have to coerce a small child to put on a heavy coat in winter or take a bath.

For most people safety measures that appear to do nothing are hard to keep enforced as a way of life or even take up. That's why most jobs will have repeat health and safety training, even for experienced staff. It's a moment to basically ensure that staff are not only up to date with the latest changes, but also that they are keeping up with established methods and equipment.

Ensuring that bad habits have not crept in. That they are putting the uniform on correctly and not taking short cuts and the like.

We've already had several in this thread talk about mask wearing refresher courses that they've been put on at work, even if its been a normal part of their workplace before now.




The public and public activities tend to lack these refresher events and might even lack initial training events. Cycling doesn't have any formal requirement to train; meanwhile for cars and, say, wearing seatbelts whilst we don't have refresher car driving sessions* we do police the wearing of seatbelts and the like.

Mask wearing is no different and its very hard for some people to see outside of their own life bubble. If they haven't suffered from Corona or had close family/friends suffer then its not something on their radar. So its all worry about something somewhere else in the world.


*personally I think we really should. Cars are one of the few things you can get trained in formally and then NEVER need a refresher course unless you get caught doing something stupid.

stratigo wrote:
does belfast have a notable CV outbreak?

Not yet...surprising to be honest, with how some people have been acting.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
I honestly don't get how a mask/face covering is any different from other required safety equipment most of us use all the time. Are seat belts, crash helmets, life jackets, hard hats, high vis vests, safety goggles and boots ect all an infringement on our freedoms as well?

In my state, one of the few that allows this, a helmet is not required on a motorcycle. Bikers will foam at the mouth here if you suggest they wear one so they survive a crash. Most of them go on about freedom and waking up in America, but when you quiz them on specifics of the Constitution, they generally don't know what it actually says.

This is what we are dealing with I over. People who think their "freedom" is more important than other people's health. It disgusts me deeply.

Yeah. Brilliant move on the helmets though; helps improve the average intelligence of the population.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

stratigo wrote:
does belfast have a notable CV outbreak?

Not yet...surprising to be honest, with how some people have been acting.

I think they say there is a two to three week lag time between Trumpian type events and increases in infections. So yes indeed it wouldn’t be surprising if we had a spike in a couple of weeks. It would be tragic if we did after doing so well. Unfortunately so many people I’ve spoken to are now saying if the people in government are putting two fingers up to the law they won’t adhere to advice either. Which while utterly stupid is kind of predictable. When you see government ministers who are getting briefings from health officials laughing at guidance in their actions it will make many people think the advice is nonsense. What’s happened in Northern Ireland probably shouldn’t surprise us but it’s been bonkers on a whole new scale.

I'd say you're looking at a 2-4 week period after a major gathering to really see if a spike takes place. At 2 weeks you'd only be seeing the infections from those at the event plus a few family. It's the 3rd and 4th weeks where you see the real spike when they went home and spread the infection locally and into their local population.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
I honestly don't get how a mask/face covering is any different from other required safety equipment most of us use all the time. Are seat belts, crash helmets, life jackets, hard hats, high vis vests, safety goggles and boots ect all an infringement on our freedoms as well?

In my state, one of the few that allows this, a helmet is not required on a motorcycle. Bikers will foam at the mouth here if you suggest they wear one so they survive a crash. Most of them go on about freedom and waking up in America, but when you quiz them on specifics of the Constitution, they generally don't know what it actually says.

This is what we are dealing with I over. People who think their "freedom" is more important than other people's health. It disgusts me deeply.

Yeah. Brilliant move on the helmets though; helps improve the average intelligence of the population.

When i crashed my bike the first time, another biker pulled, helped me, and thanked me for wearing my helmet.
Most bikers are 100% for helmets and safety. when wtwo different family members of mine got in heqad one collisions they jumped from their bikes because their safety was more important than a thing.
Im sure most people dont like wearing masks, and it sucks, but most people ARE and are being serious. We just hear about morons. I just wish people would wear them properly.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
I honestly don't get how a mask/face covering is any different from other required safety equipment most of us use all the time. Are seat belts, crash helmets, life jackets, hard hats, high vis vests, safety goggles and boots ect all an infringement on our freedoms as well?

In my state, one of the few that allows this, a helmet is not required on a motorcycle. Bikers will foam at the mouth here if you suggest they wear one so they survive a crash. Most of them go on about freedom and waking up in America, but when you quiz them on specifics of the Constitution, they generally don't know what it actually says.

This is what we are dealing with I over. People who think their "freedom" is more important than other people's health. It disgusts me deeply.

Yeah. Brilliant move on the helmets though; helps improve the average intelligence of the population.

When i crashed my bike the first time, another biker pulled, helped me, and thanked me for wearing my helmet.
Most bikers are 100% for helmets and safety. when wtwo different family members of mine got in heqad one collisions they jumped from their bikes because their safety was more important than a thing.
Im sure most people dont like wearing masks, and it sucks, but most people ARE and are being serious. We just hear about morons. I just wish people would wear them properly.

Yup, because most bikers are not morons.

 Overread wrote:
For most people safety measures that appear to do nothing are hard to keep enforced as a way of life or even take up.

I've found a good number of psychological articles about why some people react the way they do to the virus. In a way, the virus is successful because it happens to take advantage of the psychological weaknesses of humans. I should stress that this is not the only view of the psychology behind the virus, so I highly suggest further reading. I've noticed that on pretty every forum about the virus, posters, including myself, have fallen for these psychological traps when it comes to accessing the risk of the virus. (The article, frex, doesn't mention the asymptomatic period of the virus, which I would say also contributed to its spread. I've also found articles that explain why some people react strongly against the virus, because of a phenomenon when you constantly read and therefore experience negative events.)

"One reason for this subconscious Pollyannaism is that we don’t use the deliberative part of our brain very much. As the psychologist Daniel Kahneman wrote in Thinking, Fast and Slow, our brain has two modes: A fast, intuitive method that’s driven by feelings, and a more analytic (and evolutionarily more recent) way of thinking that’s driven by data. The intuitive process tends to dominate, says Paul Slovic, a psychology professor at the University of Oregon. “We don’t go around calculating things in a scientific way; we just kind of are guided by our feelings, which are very much influenced by our experiences,” he told me.

This knee-jerk part of our brains mostly takes only past events into consideration, making us “prisoners of our experience,” as Slovic put it. One 1962 study of people living on a flood plain found they were unable to conceive of floods bigger than the largest flood they had ever witnessed. It’s easy to infer that Americans similarly couldn’t fathom a disease worse than other, less deadly outbreaks the U.S. has recently faced, such as Zika and Ebola. Despite our brushes with past plagues, Americans might have struggled to imagine one that would cause more than regional disruption and a couple of weeks’ headlines.

In some cases, experience can be instructive. Shefrin points out that some Asian countries reacted differently than the U.S. to the coronavirus because the region had faced SARS in the past. While these countries were aggressively testing and contact tracing, American policy makers were scrambling to remedy the neglected supply of N95 respirators in the Strategic National Stockpile—never replenished after 2009’s swine-flu outbreak, because officials decided to shift their focus to terrorism.

The “fast” instinct in our minds tends especially to minimize risks that are harder to picture. Abstract dangers, such as invisible diseases, seem less threatening to us than do tangible threats, such as terrorists or tornadoes. Our brain interprets low-probability events as having a practically zero chance of happening, and it’s basically hopeless at contemplating exponential figures—such as, say, the way infections spread through a population. The number of cases starts out small, so our fast, intuitive brain tells us it will stay small forever. ...

By the time a disaster is on our doorstep—when hospitals are filling up in Italy but not yet in the U.S.—our minds wrongly soothe us once again. People have trouble envisioning themselves as the kind of person something bad might happen to. For instance, because elderly people have had the highest fatality rates from COVID-19, some younger Americans might think they themselves are invincible. ...

When the disease finally arrives, and people start dying, our brains fall into a different snare: The number of people affected is too large to be psychologically meaningful. Slovic has found that when many people are affected by a disaster, a kind of psychological numbing occurs. Though people are capable of feeling deeply for a single victim and her plight, “compassion fade” can set in when a tragedy involves two or more victims. People’s positive feelings about donating to a needy child decline for two needy children. This perhaps helps explain why Americans can round up thousands of dollars to donate to individual sick people’s GoFundMe campaigns, but hesitate to support a universal health-insurance system. Similarly, a disease that is likely to wipe out 60,000 Americans, most of whom are strangers, can seem less dangerous than it really is."

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/why-was-coronavirus-hard-predict/610432/

I think this is long overdue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/legalentertainment/2020/04/10/covid-19-lawsuit-against-fox-news/?fbclid=IwAR0JyWGyalv5dQdVSCxphlWFDJ3epytF5kJLapTgJFhADNL7142LLWP9CGI#2a6107cc5739

I hope it succeeds. People will claim their "Freeze peach" rights, tough. If people want to believe fox and it only affects them, that's one thing. But when fox lies and people believe it, act on it and endanger the lives of people who don;t watch fox, it's not jsut about their "freeze peach", it's affecting other peoples lives and yes, then it's time to stamp on them.

Meanwhile america continues to prove the 20% theory: There is no theory so stupid that 20% of people won't believe it.

Tell people that 5G towers cause cthe ovid virus to materialize in the air around them, they believe it.

Tell people the covid vaccine will contain mind control chips created by bill gates, they believe it.

I honestly think there's no hope for humanity anymore. I jsut wish someone would do a satire of the beatle's lonely people song as "Look at all the stupid people, where do they all come from?"

The problem is some of those shows (and others along the same political persuasion) have hid behind the defence that they're "performers" and not actual news agents, all the while having no disclaimer or any other indication of this in their actual content.

So I'm guessing that'll be the go-to here, they're an "entertainment network" or whatever made up classification lets them slip the loop.