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2020/02/07 00:39:45
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Xenomancers wrote: Except for the hammer none of that even matters and the hammer costs more points.
How can you say knowing half the number of spells doesn't matter? Every character in your army knows one spell.
How is Crowe anything like a Librarian?
because the libby is smiting most the time anyways...??????????? And he can cast the same number of spells...so you only lose a spell you aren't casting all the time anyways. Granted crowes range on his smite is low. It is an auto 11. Again I am not saying he is amazing. Just that hes not bad.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spartacus wrote: Yep, the correct answer to the Crowe question is generally 'no, just find space for Voldus', even moreso now.
You are likely taking voldis anyways...Gk army will have between 5-6 hqs. Crowe can fit in there.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/07 02:23:25
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2020/02/07 02:47:08
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Xenomancers wrote: because the libby is smiting most the time anyways...???????????
I got to this point and honestly i stopped reading. No, nope, never, god damn man for real man? Damn near every single new spell is useful, and on a good round you could cast at least half of them and never have a chance to repeat the same spell.
I'll give you an example i have 8 characters in my current list, i know 9 spells and i can cast 10.
On any given round you will cast at least 3 Sanctic (Astral Aim, Gate & Sanctuary) and 4 / 5 Dominus spells, that leaves you with 2 / 3 smites or the more situations spells (Hammer Hand, Vortex of Doom ect). On top of 6 other possible smites.
More reasons you wouldn't use smite on a Librarian. He carries relics, either a shard or the matrix. Both convey bonuses to casting, meaning you should probably use him to get the higher value WC spells off, the ones you really need to go off (Edict Imperator, Vortex ect)
2020/02/07 06:24:29
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
I would assume that the Librarian with the shard would be farming CPs and changing Tides every turn, as those two are arguably the two powers that consistently get cast every turn without exception. A hypothetical second Librarian would have the staff, and be casting things like Edict Imperator. For only a little more than Crowe you get a Chaplain.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2020/02/07 14:44:03
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
I'm curious, with the experiences and discussions of GK players here regarding the PA4 rules, what are your thoughts on our "ranking / tier-level", compared to the other SM Chapter with supplements / PA4 rules:
^ By the looks of things many (non GK players?), STILL think GK are below every other SM chapter (except SW/DW who are still waiting for their upgrades).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/07 14:55:42
2020/02/07 16:04:21
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Waking Dreamer wrote: I'm curious, with the experiences and discussions of GK players here regarding the PA4 rules, what are your thoughts on our "ranking / tier-level", compared to the other SM Chapter with supplements / PA4 rules:
^ By the looks of things many (non GK players?), STILL think GK are below every other SM chapter (except SW/DW who are still waiting for their upgrades).
We'll just have to prove them wrong then
In seriousness, I have no idea. I think the army is going to be similar to GSC when it came out and have a decently high skill cap but also be easy to lose with. It's definitely not Iron Hands tier though; and alot will depend on your opponent's list. Personally, I think it's being ranked low by current or potential GK players who still want to be the underdog and have their wins attributed to "skill".
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2020/02/07 16:52:58
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Waking Dreamer wrote: I'm curious, with the experiences and discussions of GK players here regarding the PA4 rules, what are your thoughts on our "ranking / tier-level", compared to the other SM Chapter with supplements / PA4 rules:
^ By the looks of things many (non GK players?), STILL think GK are below every other SM chapter (except SW/DW who are still waiting for their upgrades).
Hard to say really. Some great shooting buffs but in general the army does not shoot well. The mortal output is insane though. GK seem more like a matchup nightmare than a top contender. The biggest factor is not getting the reroll all hits aura for draigo / grand master stratagem. ESP with the buff to psy weapons being a core element to how the army is played. Not being able to reroll failed 3's on heavies is a big deal AND -1 to hit spam only makes this problem worse. Space marines is not an auto loss anyways like it used to be. You can probably win if you go first now.
Xenomancers wrote: because the libby is smiting most the time anyways...???????????
I got to this point and honestly i stopped reading. No, nope, never, god damn man for real man? Damn near every single new spell is useful, and on a good round you could cast at least half of them and never have a chance to repeat the same spell.
I'll give you an example i have 8 characters in my current list, i know 9 spells and i can cast 10.
On any given round you will cast at least 3 Sanctic (Astral Aim, Gate & Sanctuary) and 4 / 5 Dominus spells, that leaves you with 2 / 3 smites or the more situations spells (Hammer Hand, Vortex of Doom ect). On top of 6 other possible smites.
More reasons you wouldn't use smite on a Librarian. He carries relics, either a shard or the matrix. Both convey bonuses to casting, meaning you should probably use him to get the higher value WC spells off, the ones you really need to go off (Edict Imperator, Vortex ect)
Doing 2 flat mortals is pretty dang useful too jsut as a short range auto d6 mortals is too. Different play-styles obviously. I come to destroy your army as quickly as possible. Again - I'm not even suggesting that you should use crowe - just saying you are undervaluing him. Which ofc you are. Crowe is a bargain for what you get - that doesn't mean you should use him in your list. Not really my style but putting crowe in a SR with 2 units of purifiers can put out insane mortal damage and with the speed of the sr and the 2nd turn move out of the sr you will be able to place 3 d6 smites almost anywhere you want. Might as well put a dread in there too.
The HQ's I play on using are:
2 Bro champs
1 Libby
1 Chappy
Draigo
Voldus
Plan of use - 6 smites and +1 to cast / change tide / GOI / edict
My Ven dread is going to be casting astral on himself
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/07 17:18:43
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2020/02/07 21:46:18
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Well, in my recent games I took 2 Techmarines and 3 Ven Dreads with astral aim.
Being in cover is even better. But beware of Eliminators sniping out the Techmarines.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Well, in my recent games I took 2 Techmarines and 3 Ven Dreads with astral aim.
Being in cover is even better. But beware of Eliminators sniping out the Techmarines.
Honestly if that's what they're targeting I don't care. With how good their guns can be it's a waste of shots.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/02/09 02:11:03
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
TheBoy wrote: Would a list like this still be able to use tides? I have a Inquisitor and a requestioned assassin.
Inquisitor yes, Assassin no.
Assassins require a lot of CP to be truly effective, and you're going to need that for your GKs.
Inquisitors on the other hand require very little, and both Rex and Coteaz excellent choices.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/09 02:20:44
2020/02/09 08:39:45
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
They aren't a waste of points if you aren't trying to fill your slots. They have tricks that are at least somewhat handy, like the extra Psyker powers and CP regeneration.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/02/09 11:53:32
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
wuestenfux wrote: Well, an Inquisitor is a waste of points as he/she has no place in the FOC.
A barebone Xeno inquisitor could be of some usage. 55 points with the relic to recycle CP with a +5 and the xeno power to not let him be charged if it's further than 6" for extra survivability to CC deep strikes. Just to sit him in the deployment zone sitting on an objective and helping with the board presence in the backfile. If at the end of turn 3 between you and your opponent has used 9 starts he statistically will get back 3CP - 1CP = 2CP. If he survives more maybe he will make an extra 1CP - 2CP at the end of the battle which is something in between an extra detachment and a battalion.
It is a bit of a gamble but perhaps in a CP tight list could be useful as an extra CP source. Perhaps in lists with a single battalion and 1 or 2 vanguard / spearhead / outrider / supreme command could be useful?
2020/02/09 18:08:38
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
I've thought about an inquisitor, mainly for fluff reasons but what I see them bringing is CP regen and another psychic tree. Of those, only the psychic powers are really useful since you can only gain 1 CP/turn in matched play and you'll probably be doing that via your GK characters and the Dominus psychic powers. The 5++ ordo malleus-specific power stacked with sanctuary can give a single PAGK squad a 4++, no overwatch is always great and if you're close enough shooting an enemy's gun is situational.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2020/02/09 19:30:04
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
I’m sure Mr. Baker would have more enlightening commentary, but I’m guessing one squad is getting Armoured Resilience and the other is getting Transhuman Physiology, which against S5-7 does the same thing. And then you’ve got Heed and Sanctuary, so it’s possible to split your buffs or super buff a single squad then gate the other one in when needed.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2020/02/10 13:34:09
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Tried the list out at 750 it didn't seem like I needed tides. Assassin sat with neg 2 in cover and soaked up damage. Inquisitor smited for d3 a 18 which really helped range wise. Interagation was useful for when his hammer captain came up and I made it hit on 4s plus the bonus comand point helped. My librarian kept generating command pts for me and he buffed my psycannons to reroll wounds. All said tides help alot but with how many command points I generated (6+) I feel like I was able to make up for it.
2020/02/10 14:45:32
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Take-aways:
- Non-Psyker units no longer benefit from the Tides, so no more -1 to hit 1+ Land Raiders in cover. Which is what I initially expected, but still a loss.
- The Lore Master warlord traits indeed gives you an extra Dominus power if your other powers are Dominus powers. No mixing and matching.
Take-aways:
- Non-Psyker units no longer benefit from the Tides, so no more -1 to hit 1+ Land Raiders in cover. Which is what I initially expected, but still a loss.
- The Lore Master warlord traits indeed gives you an extra Dominus power if your other powers are Dominus powers. No mixing and matching.
Looks like we were both right about Lore-Master and Dominus powers then.
Yay for 3 usable Dominus powers for Libbies or 4 Dominus powers for Voldus!
2020/02/10 16:10:38
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Interestingly, he chose to bring 4x Psycannons into his list for any special weapons.
The list is quite okay.
Lots of storm bolters and only 4 heavy weapons (psycannons) in a Paladin special squad.
Seems not easy to play, needs a smart player.
Three GKSS have gate and the three others have vortex of doom.
Seems clear how to use them.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
It's not optimized to take advantage of any tides. Must have made a lot of deep strike charges in this tournament.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
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