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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Delaque specialists lost Shooting skills. Shooting. For Delaque.

What alternate reality are we living in now?

This really bugs me, and might push me away from continuing collecting them. I guess they gained munitioneer but these guys aren't really built to be brawlers...nor do they look it. Lorewise it doesn't make any sense either. Maybe they did it to softly nerf them...but I don't think Delaque were as op as van saar to begin with. Nonsensical stuff going on with this game yet again.

I wouldn't say Delaque were as OP as Van Saar, but EVERYONE (in my experience) ran them with Run N' Gun/Gunfighter and some kind of Web weapon. Someone must have decided that just wasn't proper, and since skills aren't on a sprue...

If anything, I feel like they didn't really have a clear vision on what they wanted them to be, but the 'wacky totally not Cthulhu psykers!' thing was an early idea that they just went all in on.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They kept Combat however, as nothing says tough, dirty, hard-hitting, HTH-fighting hombres quite like these minis:

Spoiler:

What about them says "shooting"? The weapons that are holstered in favour of blades, grenades, and skulking?

Delaque have never had a strong shooting theme, stop clutching your pearls.

Edit: Your dissembling is especially funny on this occasion, because you know who does look like tough, dirty, hard-hitting, HTH-fighting hombres?

These dudes:

...who you say captured the core themes of Delaque better than the updated models...

 Thargrim wrote:

This really bugs me, and might push me away from continuing collecting them. I guess they gained munitioneer but these guys aren't really built to be brawlers...nor do they look it. Lorewise it doesn't make any sense either. Maybe they did it to softly nerf them...but I don't think Delaque were as op as van saar to begin with. Nonsensical stuff going on with this game yet again.

Explain how, "lorewise," Shooting skills make more sense than Savant. This change seems to be almost solely motivated by tightening up the skill access options compliance with the lore.

There were a couple of unique-to-Delaque builds that could be accomplished with the shooting tree, which I'll miss, but this arrangement makes more sense. And, yeah, the hip shooting webgun was borderline OP, but very fun to use.

But as a side-note, any playgroup that uses any level of house rule (and most should) ought to be installing a house rule for purchasing secondary skills -- at an extra cost -- instead of rolling for them.

 Altruizine wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They kept Combat however, as nothing says tough, dirty, hard-hitting, HTH-fighting hombres quite like these minis:

Spoiler:

What about them says "shooting"? The weapons that are holstered in favour of blades, grenades, and skulking?

Well let's see, there's 10 dudes in there. One of them has a big-ass gun on his back, and two daggers he seems to be currently showing off, presumably to attract a mate, because that's very much not a fighting position. Two have holstered guns and are doing something else. All other ones are either holding a gun, holding two guns, or holding a gun and something else.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They kept Combat however, as nothing says tough, dirty, hard-hitting, HTH-fighting hombres quite like these minis:

Spoiler:

What about them says "shooting"? The weapons that are holstered in favour of blades, grenades, and skulking?

Well let's see, there's 10 dudes in there. One of them has a big-ass gun on his back, and two daggers he seems to be currently showing off, presumably to attract a mate, because that's very much not a fighting position. Two have holstered guns and are doing something else. All other ones are either holding a gun, holding two guns, or holding a gun and something else.

If peacock poses rewrite the implied content of a weapon loadout, then about half of your gun-toting friends suddenly become something other than gun-toters (including the literal twin brother of dagger guy, with his skyward autopistols).

The majority of the gang are sneaking or posing. They don't look like people who have a preference for one style of fighting/weapon over any other. They look like people who will try to kill you when your attention is directed elsewhere, using whatever weapon is most efficient for them under the circumstances.

They're a shooting gang. They've always been a shooting gang and have never been a close combat gang. It's unusual, to say the least, that their specialists would lose shooting but retain combat.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Well let's see, there's 10 dudes in there. One of them has a big-ass gun on his back, and two daggers he seems to be currently showing off, presumably to attract a mate, because that's very much not a fighting position. Two have holstered guns and are doing something else. All other ones are either holding a gun, holding two guns, or holding a gun and something else.

Yeah, let's ignore 1/3 of them literally has skirts made from knives, nope, no melee weapons here at all

Stab you in the back.
Shoot you with Needler weapons from the shadows.
Capture you with web weapons, then sell you of, or sell you for spare parts.
Traps.

The new ones look the part. Old first ones, were straight up shoot you off the deck, as they run up and finish off downed fighters crawling around on the floor. The new ones, I'd say they have a perchance for more subtle fighting, poison weapons, spycraft, and using more indirect attacks on the enemies.

On a side note, how's the price increase on the boxed gang sets feeling on your wallet?

 Grot 6 wrote:
Stab you in the back.
Shoot you with Needler weapons from the shadows.
Capture you with web weapons, then sell you of, or sell you for spare parts.
Traps.

The new ones look the part. Old first ones, were straight up shoot you off the deck, as they run up and finish off downed fighters crawling around on the floor. The new ones, I'd say they have a perchance for more subtle fighting, poison weapons, spycraft, and using more indirect attacks on the enemies.

On a side note, how's the price increase on the boxed gang sets feeling on your wallet?

What price increase?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They're a shooting gang. They've always been a shooting gang and have never been a close combat gang. It's unusual, to say the least, that their specialists would lose shooting but retain combat.

As a secondary.

I mean secondaries may as well not exist in the game, they are utterly worthless.

Shooting aside, I’m quite chuffed with the Delaque book. Certainly worth the wait.

Currently contemplating a Psyker heavy gang. Though I’ll be awaiting their plastic weapon sprue before going into the nitty gritty.

The psychic powers seem interesting - but I reckon I’ll need greater experience of the game to really appreciate their potential.

Example?

Seen Unseen means the target is treated as an enemy model by everyone, and everyone treats the target as an enemy model. Depending on buff bubbles and that this could be really quite powerful.

Whereas Ghost & Shadow, which allows me to change an enemy model’s facing is just outright useful. Spesh if I intend to stab them later in the turn,

I think they removed shooting because it was very powerful for Delaque (arguably they had the webgun to exploit it more than Van Saar), combined with it and Cunning being probably the best two core skillsets in the game.

So I think it's a good move.

Like all psychic powers these new ones are all extremely niche and/or very short ranged.
Perhaps the wyrms will mitigate that short range, and it'll be interesting to see how that works out. But that's a very expensive build and it'll be difficult to see how that'll be more useful than using those same credits to just shoot the target.

Think I’m definitely going to be investing in Web Guns and Web Pistols.

After all, why fight hard, when you can fight smart.

Well just need to remember to have sufficient other bods to get round the entangled and put them out of my misery.

The range thing… does anyone believe the range buff from having other Delaque near the psyker affects things like urge radius of an effect as well as the distance to initial target?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
The range thing… does anyone believe the range buff from having other Delaque near the psyker affects things like urge radius of an effect as well as the distance to initial target?

Good question! Also interested in what exactly a "<gang> fighter" is, this is typically called "faction fighter" in other games (and typically a lot better defined too). For example a "Delaque fighter" can join the choir. Note that "faction fighter" is used for several important things now, like "House Cawdor fighters" will generate faith dice and can perform articles of faith. There is some mentioning in the House of Shadows of this, that specifically includes:
-agents
-hangers-on
-brutes

Agents are obviously included. So is any standard fighter. Pets however are not. Some has also argued that any fighter that has the <gang> in the title, for example Yageloth & Calthyxis, also counts as faction fighters.

So an Ambot or Ragnir Gunnstein could join the choir to extend the range! Or generate faith dice (if used by Cawdor)?

Do you hear the Ambots sing, singing a song of angry bugs...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSj9BNrNbFO/

Don't think anyone has brought this up yet, looks like maybe a conversion (a real good one) but more likely a new van saar sculpt. Might be part of the upcoming plastic Van Saar upgrade sprue?

Most likely it is what the poster said: a FW Champion model.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Most likely it is what the poster said: a FW Champion model.

Could be, but to me the legs look the same as these legs from the standard van saar kit. The 360 spin of the sculpt on the GW website is even more clear.

It's this guy.

So conversion of existing minis to represent a random piece of artwork, or are FW actually releasing a model of a non-special character before so many other things that still don't have minis (Arachni-Rig!)?

That looks like a lot of work for a conversion.

Same legs doesn't necessarily mean it's not a new model, they could have reused assets (seems they've been doing this more commonly after they switched to digital designing).

The lower legs certainly appear identical to the plastic figure posted, but the purple plating on the upper leg seems to be a different shape? That would be strange thing to alter for a conversion. So, FW champion could be a good shout.

(Not familiar enough with the Van Saar figures to recognize bits otherwise.)

A champion with a lasgun??

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
The lower legs certainly appear identical to the plastic figure posted, but the purple plating on the upper leg seems to be a different shape? That would be strange thing to alter for a conversion. So, FW champion could be a good shout.

(Not familiar enough with the Van Saar figures to recognize bits otherwise.)

They just don't seem to be diffrent, they are. The little square cut-out is in a diffrent place

Lasgun hotshot las pack and sight attachment, actually making a weapon pack with attachment and extra bling is not a bad idea, assuming that they got a budget and production raise. Also good opportunity to bring some of the remaining resin weapon into plastic because the resin weapon packs are going out of production.

Fading legend from Last Rites For the Machine? Agent? Leader? Champ? Probably not Von Buren (Bounty Hunter).

A lot of fuzz for a single new Van Saar mini?

And now some House Greim Military Attachés:





My, my, my. Look at that helmet she's holding.

Is the bottom one the first official Necromunda Spider model? :O