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Baxx wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

The release history of Necromunda has been insane, yeah.

But... you're also eliding critical details and exaggerating, aren't you? Like, did you just refer to the 5 page "Gangs of Legend" .pdf as a "book"?

Which ones have had five versions, btw? ("book" or otherwise )

I got 5 actual books explaining how to make the same gang in 5 distinct ways. N17, GW1, N18, House Book, N21.

Your last two main rulebooks have rules for building house gangs?

Daaaamn, why is GW giving the Norwegian market secret content!?

Baxx wrote:

This is just one weapon and not a problem in itself, but when each of 100 characters get the same treatment?!?

Who cares?

Nobody in the world has played with all 100 special characters. I'd also wager the vast majority of Necromunda players haven't played with any special characters. Your obsession with them is purely aesthetic, and has no bearing on the quality of the game. They're page-filler and imagination-fuel, after all.

Baxx wrote:
Would the game suffer by giving her WS 2+ instead, and simply saying her power sabre works like a power sword? Losing that finer distinction means that one laspistol attack would hit on 2+...

Hey, you can't just expect the writers to playtest EVERYTHING, or play the game, or know how the game works...

Hi Andy!

 Robert Facepalmer wrote:

Hey, you can't just expect the writers to playtest EVERYTHING, or play the game, or know how the game works...

I dunno if you've noticed, but they have the rules being written by interns and temps now.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
But we have to ask if a skirmish games benefits from 400+ unique weapons.

No. It doesn't. At all. It's just chaff that you have to memorize and GW needs to justify selling more books.

But then again, their main games don't benefit from it either, and the justification is exactly the same.

If you actually want a system with weapon personalization that's actually manageable, you just create a main set of weapons and a set of mods for them, like dunno Reliable, Precise, Up-gunned, Shoddy, Unreliable, and the like, which would just modify the regular stats of the core weapons. That's it, and you then can mix and match as you see fit, if so you prefer.

Design wise I always liked Champions/Hero System's philosophy, an Energy Blast is an energy blast, whether it's from a ray gun, or Laser Lad's fingers, or Professor Weird's magic spell or whatever. Just add advantages or disadvantages to differentiate it.

Similarly I prefer that games not really try to differentiate a sabre, scimitar, katana, gladius etc. To me those should be aestetic changes to fit my character, once you give them all different rules then suddenly my Roman Legionnaire is going to pick up a katana because it's noticeably better.

How far is too far? Is an axe the same as a sword? Or a spear? Depends on the game and the players. But in the end we should be creating the characters and figures we want without worrying that giving Vinny the Viking a battleaxe is less effective than a naginata.

So on the GW side, the 3rd edition rules where there were weapons and power weapons (and power fists) was a good level. It quickly fell apart, but it was a good goal. I could give a model a chainsword, a baseball bat or a shovel and it was all the same.

Yea GW is being ridiculous with detail, and I say that as someone who made a 250 page Necromunda rewrite supporting all 40k factions and their wargear.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Similarly I prefer that games not really try to differentiate a sabre, scimitar, katana, gladius etc. To me those should be aestetic changes to fit my character, once you give them all different rules then suddenly my Roman Legionnaire is going to pick up a katana because it's noticeably better.

How far is too far? Is an axe the same as a sword? Or a spear? Depends on the game and the players. But in the end we should be creating the characters and figures we want without worrying that giving Vinny the Viking a battleaxe is less effective than a naginata.

In a wargame perhaps, but RPGs are the exact place for such levels of granularity.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yea GW is being ridiculous with detail, and I say that as someone who made a 250 page Necromunda rewrite supporting all 40k factions and their wargear.

I agree, and I say that as someone who wrote a whole section of different types of Chain Weapons for Black Crusade.

 Altruizine wrote:

Your last two main rulebooks have rules for building house gangs?

Here are facts:

2017 rulebook is a book and gives instructions to create Escher & Goliath gang (in an unique way, different from all other books)
Gang War 1 is a book and gives instructions to create Escher & Goliath gang (in an unique way, different from all other books)
2018 rule/gang book is a book and gives instructions to create Escher & Goliath gang (in an unique way, different from all other books)
House of Chains/Blades are 2 books and give instructions to create Escher & Goliath gang (in an unique way, different from all other books)
2021 rulebook is a book and gives instructions to create Escher & Goliath gang (in an unique way, different from all other books)

The last 2 rulebooks are N21 and N19, but only N21 give instructions to build House gangs (not N19).



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:

If you actually want a system with weapon personalization that's actually manageable, you just create a main set of weapons and a set of mods for them, like dunno Reliable, Precise, Up-gunned, Shoddy, Unreliable, and the like, which would just modify the regular stats of the core weapons. That's it, and you then can mix and match as you see fit, if so you prefer.

That would make a lot of sense.

As someone who played Necromunda as an RPG more then a Skirmish.. The level of detail is good for the type of campaigns I prefer. I know others prefer otherwise but more is better for what I enjoy.

Baxx wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

Your last two main rulebooks have rules for building house gangs?

Here are facts:

2017 rulebook is a book and gives instructions to create Escher & Goliath gang (in an unique way, different from all other books)
Gang War 1 is a book and gives instructions to create Escher & Goliath gang (in an unique way, different from all other books)
2018 rule/gang book is a book and gives instructions to create Escher & Goliath gang (in an unique way, different from all other books)
House of Chains/Blades are 2 books and give instructions to create Escher & Goliath gang (in an unique way, different from all other books)
2021 rulebook is a book and gives instructions to create Escher & Goliath gang (in an unique way, different from all other books)

The last 2 rulebooks are N21 and N19, but only N21 give instructions to build House gangs (not N19).

What's the N21 rulebook? Whatever came in Hive War? Does that book really include yet more Goliath rules instead of rules for the Delaque that are actually in the box?

2021 Hive War rulebook (N21) contains unique rules to create any House gang yes. Most notably introducing Grav pistol to Delaque.

Bumper release next week for House Cawdor.

That's neat. Why didn't they announce it yesterday, would have made Warhams Day come off a lot better.

Looks like stig shambler is plastic. Nice! As is Klovis and Malakhev.

Dread Master wrote:
Looks like stig shambler is plastic. Nice! As is Klovis and Malakhev.

No way.

Never gets old...

I didn’t notice a forgeworld plug in the video for those models, while there was one for the alt. Bloodbowl sculpts. Things should clear up this week though.

Awesome, Cawdor will be the only weapons pack without hand flames

I think those flamers at the top are suppose to be hand flamers... maybe. I would have said they were flamers and those bigger ones at eh bottom were heavy flamers, but there's no extra fuel tanks. Looks like a cool weapons kit to me either way. I wonder if those birds will be all on their own... or what.

Can we even really call it a weapons pack if it doesn't come with Hand Flamers?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Can we even really call it a weapons pack if it doesn't come with Hand Flamers?

Well it comes with both hands and flamers

Very happy to finally see the sheen birds. Now all we need is the Cephalopod Specter and the Caryatid and (just about) all Exotic Beasts will be accounted for.

I kinda like this just for the Flak Armor Panels.

Is that bad?

 Kanluwen wrote:
I kinda like this just for the Flak Armor Panels.

Is that bad?

No, I'm partial to the Molotov Cocktails myself...

 Segersgia wrote:
Very happy to finally see the sheen birds. Now all we need is the Cephalopod Specter and the Caryatid and (just about) all Exotic Beasts will be accounted for.

Don't forget the Escher Khimerix beasty

The Cephalopod thingy should come out with H2O caste.

 Overread wrote:

 Segersgia wrote:
Very happy to finally see the sheen birds. Now all we need is the Cephalopod Specter and the Caryatid and (just about) all Exotic Beasts will be accounted for.

Don't forget the Escher Khimerix beasty

No... That's a Brute Doesn't count


(Back on track; We only lack two brutes now; The Khimerix and the Servo-Lugger)

Honestly reading the lore the Escher forces should expect more beasties in the future with perhaps even a dedicated beast-mistress type unit. Of course GW might do that with a few famliar type models here and there on characters as detail.

But for the faction that's supposed to have the most beasts they currently only have 2, which is only 1 more than standard. Get the Khimerix and that's 3.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly reading the lore the Escher forces should expect more beasties in the future with perhaps even a dedicated beast-mistress type unit. Of course GW might do that with a few famliar type models here and there on characters as detail.

Maybe let's not do more new releases for the main 6 gangs. They have enough (some might say too many, in the case of the Delaques).

Time to expand the game outwards.

Those crows tho.... dang. Slightly too good of a fit with my Edo Orlocks. Very tempted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Are those the new flight stands that everybody hates?