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It's difficult to review something without having the thing itself in front of you. Given the nature of GW products - games to be played, models ato be assembled - in order to have a review ready before release day, the reviewer needs to be given the product beforehand, and that can only come from GW.
Would people trust the reviews more if GW made the reviewer pay for the product they were reviewing?
Shakalooloo wrote: It's difficult to review something without having the thing itself in front of you. Given the nature of GW products - games to be played, models ato be assembled - in order to have a review ready before release day, the reviewer needs to be given the product beforehand, and that can only come from GW.
Would people trust the reviews more if GW made the reviewer pay for the product they were reviewing?
You might be too young to know this, but that's what independent reviews used to be, yes. People buying product and evaluating it. We don't have those anymore, we have influencers, and influencers sell their clout for sponsor money.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/03 21:29:39
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Shakalooloo wrote: It's difficult to review something without having the thing itself in front of you. Given the nature of GW products - games to be played, models ato be assembled - in order to have a review ready before release day, the reviewer needs to be given the product beforehand, and that can only come from GW.
Would people trust the reviews more if GW made the reviewer pay for the product they were reviewing?
You might be too young to know this, but that's what independent reviews used to be, yes. People buying product and evaluating it. We don't have those anymore, we have influencers, and influencers sell their clout for sponsor money.
Shakalooloo wrote: It's difficult to review something without having the thing itself in front of you. Given the nature of GW products - games to be played, models ato be assembled - in order to have a review ready before release day, the reviewer needs to be given the product beforehand, and that can only come from GW.
Would people trust the reviews more if GW made the reviewer pay for the product they were reviewing?
You might be too young to know this, but that's what independent reviews used to be, yes. People buying product and evaluating it. We don't have those anymore, we have influencers, and influencers sell their clout for sponsor money.
specially for GW, they never gave away anything for free or send out review copies until recently (~5 years now?)
a some tabletop news sites got the hate of doing more indy stuff and never a GW box for reviews, simply because they only reviewed those that they bought anyway as it was too expensive (and sometimes impossible) to get everything
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2022/05/04 06:10:52
Subject: Necromunda news & rumours - Ash Wastes up for preorder next week
I am usless at inserting images in Dakka posts, here's a link to the Warhammer Community post about it Mentions "a series of books" in the article and the picture shows at least three followed by a box set?
Yeah, though that’s just a model box not a boxed set in my opinion, and boxes to go with that third book.
To me that’s not saying three books, just (if it is an accurate order not just stock pictures) after this box you’ve got two books in a row (Nomads And Orlocks) before getting a third book with new box kits (next gang).
Though looking closely it’s just three books then three model boxes fading off.
So guarantees it’s not a box set as they wouldn’t release three box sets, but three model kits is possible/plausible (though I wouldn’t say in a row) so maybe that’s not an actual order. Just saying kits and books coming..
In classic GW fasion the Ash wastes rulebook and campaign is not actually balanced from the Ashwastes box.
The three gangs (Van Sarr, Nomads, and Orlocks) get 400 additional credits to spend on vehicles. while everyone else gets to wait for their vehicle rulebook expansion. (They get zero because they don't have access to any vehicles.) So the 300$ you drop on Ashwastes to get the rulebook lets you hope in a few months or so that they'll release another rulebook (Which they'll probably charge 50$ for.) That actually lets you play the game... assuming they release the rulebook for all the gangs vehicles (Which they may just release 1 for each individual gang massively hiking up the total.)
What on earth could go wrong with this You effectively have to create house rules and third party vehicles with no official GW rule set to even play Ashwastes in a remotely balanced way out of 300$ box.
There are also vehicle upgrades that will exist, but they aren't in the Ashwastes rulebook.
Definately another rulebook that actually tells you how to play with vehicles "Actually" coming down the line.
Basicaly all the most cynical expectations from this thread combined have actualy happened.
It is baffling how they didn't include the rules for 'generic vehicles.
(To whit Goliath, Ridgerunner, Outriders, maybe Taurox, perhaps some kit bash instructions for Armageddon enclosed pattern sentinels to civilise them).
I guess as they don't have gang specific crew. The 'no model no rules' seems to really be crippling the game in this regard.
In truth, I don't think GW relies on whales, I think there's just a big ocean of gamers who spend $500, $1000, $1500 a year on games. And their ideal customer looks a lot like most people on this forum, except they don't judge the company so much or so harshly, and spend most of their budget on GW products instead of spreading it around.
Indeed, that's why specialist games have started coming out all the time now, they know there's barely anybody out there will be willing to buy ten 40K armies, but there are lots of people who will buy a cool new hot game that reminds them of other game they liked.
From memory the company expects to make the most from a customer in the first 12 months? Been a while since I was interested in their staff training stuff. The SG stuff came back both from a change in strategy where profit on larger turnover was better, as opposed to high profit on a lower turnover, which was informed by them realising it didn't impact their core sales as much as they feared back in SGs original heyday, and to close off avenues for competitors to grow by using the market segments they feel they created and then abandoned.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/04 16:10:44
So who's getting the Votann hover trike for their ash waste squat prospectors? It doesn't look too hard to convert it to have wheels either... maybe it'll even be an option in the kit (who am I kidding )
Spoiler:
or the new chaos cultists - possessed and all! Is it just me or do some of the possessed ones look like the Blackstone fortress cultists?
Spoiler:
Looks like different stages of possession or amounts of gifts. I'm psyched to see the chaos cultists getting expanded.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/04 19:19:20
2022/05/04 19:16:16
Subject: Re:Necromunda news & rumours - Ash Wastes up for preorder next week
It is baffling how they didn't include the rules for 'generic vehicles.
(To whit Goliath, Ridgerunner, Outriders, maybe Taurox, perhaps some kit bash instructions for Armageddon enclosed pattern sentinels to civilise them).
I guess as they don't have gang specific crew. The 'no model no rules' seems to really be crippling the game in this regard.
Or maybe they just don't want to toss all that crap in?
The Ridgerunner and Goliath are the two I'd expect to see. Not the Atalan Jackals or the Taurox and extremely unlikely to see a Sentinel, except as part of an Enforcers setup.
I'd expect the Ridgerunner and Goliath because there's art of Drudges/Prospecters in the Orlock book geared up in the same garb for the most part.
2022/05/04 20:17:29
Subject: Re:Necromunda news & rumours - Ash Wastes up for preorder next week
It is baffling how they didn't include the rules for 'generic vehicles.
(To whit Goliath, Ridgerunner, Outriders, maybe Taurox, perhaps some kit bash instructions for Armageddon enclosed pattern sentinels to civilise them).
I guess as they don't have gang specific crew. The 'no model no rules' seems to really be crippling the game in this regard.
Or maybe they just don't want to toss all that crap in?
The Ridgerunner and Goliath are the two I'd expect to see. Not the Atalan Jackals or the Taurox and extremely unlikely to see a Sentinel, except as part of an Enforcers setup.
I'd expect the Ridgerunner and Goliath because there's art of Drudges/Prospecters in the Orlock book geared up in the same garb for the most part.
There used to be a civilian Sentinel powerloader. I could see that returning.
ChargerIIC wrote: If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
2022/05/04 22:49:40
Subject: Re:Necromunda news & rumours - Ash Wastes up for preorder next week
Chaos Cultist and Genestealer Cult are 40k factions that were repurposed to be used in Necromunda, they're not a Necromunda product. You don't even need to use those models for the faction as they can be any human models but were corrupted or infected.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/05 03:57:26
Chopstick wrote: Chaos Cultist and Genestealer Cult are 40k factions that were repurposed to be used in Necromunda, they're not a Necromunda product.
That can't be. Necromunda came out in 1995 and 40k 9th edition came out in 2021 so as you can see Necromunda is much older. It is just science, and you can't argue with science.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2022/05/05 06:50:59
Subject: Re:Necromunda news & rumours - Ash Wastes up for preorder next week
It is baffling how they didn't include the rules for 'generic vehicles.
(To whit Goliath, Ridgerunner, Outriders, maybe Taurox, perhaps some kit bash instructions for Armageddon enclosed pattern sentinels to civilise them).
I guess as they don't have gang specific crew. The 'no model no rules' seems to really be crippling the game in this regard.
Or maybe they just don't want to toss all that crap in?
The Ridgerunner and Goliath are the two I'd expect to see. Not the Atalan Jackals or the Taurox and extremely unlikely to see a Sentinel, except as part of an Enforcers setup.
I'd expect the Ridgerunner and Goliath because there's art of Drudges/Prospecters in the Orlock book geared up in the same garb for the most part.
Why on Earth would literal dirt bikes not be suitable for the Ash Wastes?!
And given the mining theme of GSC, I think they’re an obvious fit for a main faction for this expansion, more so than some of the main gangs.
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
2022/05/05 07:47:02
Subject: Re:Necromunda news & rumours - Ash Wastes up for preorder next week
I was counting as using my Jackals with the Ash Wastes box along with my enforcers for Hive games, but I guess that if I do so I won't be dropping 300$ on something it doesn't interest me at all.
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
Yeah, the idea that including rules for bikes and industrial vehicles as "crap" is absurd. The fact that they didn't at least for the Outcasts gang is weird, but no models no rules is infecting SG more and more.
As for speculation for tomorrow, I reckon the first book will have Goliath, Escher and Orlock expansion lists as well as Ash Waste Nomads.
For the gangs, I'm guessing:
- Goliath will be tracked and their bikes will be half tracks and the like - Escher will be mounted with gene spliced chimeric beasts - Orlock will be what we've seen plus a full blown dune buggy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/05 08:26:11
I can understand not wanting to fill rule books up with generic stuff when Necromunda has great scope to make gang specific vehicles. Tho why people were assuming the rulebook included in a boxed set would include rules for stuff not it that set is confusing, as that has not happened in a 'Necromunda 2017' set yet? That was always in gang war books.
Generic stuff (specifically repurposed 40k models, much of which isnt actually generic as most people are talking about stuff with Genestealer crew models anyway) will almost certainly come out in WD over the next 12 months anyway.
I would say the limited scope of the box rules is probably a combination of just having limited development/playtesting time, and then those rules for the other vehicles can be released as further updates and expansions.
We have seen this with the rest of Necromunda (what is it, 13 or 14 books now?) so why should this be any different?
One of the main Necromunda social media groups on FB has actually just started deleting posts/comments on people either moaning about the rules or the prices (especially the cries of despair from people in Aus/NZ), had threads with 3-400 comments just disappearing. It has really started some firestorms in what was previously a very comfortable and relaxed niche of the community.
"Generic stuff" is a temporary band aid to this early access expansion of a 5 years old game.
When N17 launch they actually made the "legacy gang" as a free download (and it had more than 1 page) so people who didn't play Goliath or Escher can play. Now 5 years later and they can't make a single page of "Hive scum on bike" profile? This is peak low effort, and how can no one in the team not seeing this coming miles away?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/05/05 10:02:55
Chopstick wrote: "Generic stuff" is a temporary band aid to this early access expansion of a 5 years old game.
When N17 launch they actually made the "legacy gang" as a free download (and it had more than 1 page) so people who didn't play Goliath or Escher can play. Now 5 years later and they can't make a single page of "Hive scum on bike" profile? This is peak low effort, and how can no one in the team not seeing this coming miles away?
Hive Scum on Bike was never a legacy model.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
stato wrote: I can understand not wanting to fill rule books up with generic stuff when Necromunda has great scope to make gang specific vehicles. Tho why people were assuming the rulebook included in a boxed set would include rules for stuff not it that set is confusing, as that has not happened in a 'Necromunda 2017' set yet? That was always in gang war books.
It's not assuming, or even expecting.
It's hoping.
We hoped that a Necromunda Ash Waste expansion would expand Necromunda into the Ash Wastes, not expand specifically just Orlocks and their specific new Buggies into the Ash Wastes alongside the new Nomads.
We expected Ash Wastes Nomads - comes with the territory really - but we hoped that, right out the box, we'd be able to use the existing gangs in that setting. We can't, and are forced, once again, to wait for drip fed massive and expensive splat books.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/05 11:01:26
It is baffling how they didn't include the rules for 'generic vehicles.
(To whit Goliath, Ridgerunner, Outriders, maybe Taurox, perhaps some kit bash instructions for Armageddon enclosed pattern sentinels to civilise them).
I guess as they don't have gang specific crew. The 'no model no rules' seems to really be crippling the game in this regard.
Or maybe they just don't want to toss all that crap in?
The Ridgerunner and Goliath are the two I'd expect to see. Not the Atalan Jackals or the Taurox and extremely unlikely to see a Sentinel, except as part of an Enforcers setup.
I'd expect the Ridgerunner and Goliath because there's art of Drudges/Prospecters in the Orlock book geared up in the same garb for the most part.
Well yes, the Taurox is crap, but that is what the company makes.
Because I am a company who wants to make cash and sell my products. It seems counter productive not to include as many options to sell things to my consumers as much as possible. Having a pool of common gang vehicles always me to sell more out of the gate. I get why they don't like the idea of kitbashed vehicles (no models no rulz, got to ward off those 3rd party companies), so no simple vehicle build rules. But that seems here to extend to crew as well.
I would see your point if they weren't going open topped (where does the oxygen come from outside...), but they have. Outriders are a staple of mad max shenanigans. Taurox for all their awful design as a ready made enforcer vehicle. Sentinels have civilian versions and no doubt necromunda makes the military ones well.
Spoiler:
A bunch of stuff they already sell to encourage existing players to go buy their latest box. Not sure why you think it is crap?
It doesn't look too hard to convert it to have wheels either... maybe it'll even be an option in the kit (who am I kidding 
)
