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I had a lot of fun with 4th ed too. There was some annoying stuff, but at least alpha strikes weren't that big of a problem due to how area terrain worked and how damage output wasn't as high as it is now.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
4th had the God awful Skimmer rules though. When I was new and playing Grey Knights (as I couldn't play my Necrons all the time), Skimmers almost felt like the opponent was cheating.

Ah yes, the time when my Falcons were indestructible!

I forget, was Battle for Macragge the 4th ed box?

Yes.

2nd - Marines v Orks
3rd - Marines v Dark Eldar
4th - Marines v 'Nids (Battle for McDonalds)
5th - Marines v Orks 2: The Return of the Revenge
6th - HAHAHAHAH!
7th - Dark Marines v Chaos (or was that 6th and it was over so quickly everyone assumed this one was 7th?)
8th - Super Marines v Stinky Chaos

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yes.

2nd - Marines v Orks
3rd - Marines v Dark Eldar
4th - Marines v 'Nids (Battle for McDonalds)
5th - Marines v Orks 2: The Return of the Revenge
6th - HAHAHAHAH!
7th - Dark Marines v Chaos (or was that 6th and it was over so quickly everyone assumed this one was 7th?)
8th - Super Marines v Stinky Chaos

Dark Marines v Chaos was 6th and 7th's starter

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yes.

2nd - Marines v Orks
3rd - Marines v Dark Eldar
4th - Marines v 'Nids (Battle for McDonalds)
5th - Marines v Orks 2: The Return of the Revenge
6th - HAHAHAHAH!
7th - Dark Marines v Chaos (or was that 6th and it was over so quickly everyone assumed this one was 7th?)
8th - Super Marines v Stinky Chaos

6th and 7th had the same basic box, in 6th it came with a LE interrogator chaplain, in 7th it came with a "aspiring champion" special mini that would later on become the stand alone exaulted champion mini

 Platuan4th wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It would be pretty great if the orks did win, just to mix things up a bit.
They probably won't though. Has xenos ever won in PA? Or chaos for that matter?

Does Chaos winning in Phoenix count? Although it's pretty sad if you only win because Imps weren't around and the writers also dropped the ball.

That is both sad and funny. Remember the start of 8th, where chaos kicks the imperium hard in the proverbial groin and things were set up to be getting dire and worse?
Pepperidge farm remembers.

Maybe for like 5 minutes that happened but Chaos has been getting kick up and down the street by a resurgent more powerful than ever Imperium with an Emperor 2 this time he's blue.

yeah having the Imperium split in two and half of it de facto lost is such a great victory. *eye roll* but the "Imperium never loses" brigade only counts a loss if Terra or Macragge burns.

Which directly after said splitting, Chaos got their ass handed to them by Marines version 2.0 that had just happened to exist in secret for millennia until such a time the plot calls for convenient literal deus ex machina.

That's not what that phrase means. Like at all.

Cops suddenly showing up and arresting the cast of Holy Grail? Deus ex Machina.
Prop plane from nowhere coming down from the sky and killing Mccougnahey at the end of Texas Chainsaw Massacre 4? Deus ex Machina.
NuMarines fighting for 100 years to set up the new status quo and NOT resolve the plot? Not Deus ex Machina.

The galaxy split in two, Imperium on the verge of defeat - suddenly Cawl pops into existence with a solution of an army of improved marines that turns the tide is the very definition of Deus Ex Machina. He is a "character or event that seems to exist just to effortlessly solve a problem that seems unsolvable"

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It would be pretty great if the orks did win, just to mix things up a bit.
They probably won't though. Has xenos ever won in PA? Or chaos for that matter?

Does Chaos winning in Phoenix count? Although it's pretty sad if you only win because Imps weren't around and the writers also dropped the ball.

That is both sad and funny. Remember the start of 8th, where chaos kicks the imperium hard in the proverbial groin and things were set up to be getting dire and worse?
Pepperidge farm remembers.

Maybe for like 5 minutes that happened but Chaos has been getting kick up and down the street by a resurgent more powerful than ever Imperium with an Emperor 2 this time he's blue.

yeah having the Imperium split in two and half of it de facto lost is such a great victory. *eye roll* but the "Imperium never loses" brigade only counts a loss if Terra or Macragge burns.

Which directly after said splitting, Chaos got their ass handed to them by Marines version 2.0 that had just happened to exist in secret for millennia until such a time the plot calls for convenient literal deus ex machina.

That's not what that phrase means. Like at all.

Cops suddenly showing up and arresting the cast of Holy Grail? Deus ex Machina.
Prop plane from nowhere coming down from the sky and killing Mccougnahey at the end of Texas Chainsaw Massacre 4? Deus ex Machina.
NuMarines fighting for 100 years to set up the new status quo and NOT resolve the plot? Not Deus ex Machina.

The galaxy split in two, Imperium on the verge of defeat - suddenly Cawl pops into existence with a solution of an army of improved marines that turns the tide is the very definition of Deus Ex Machina. He is a "character or event that seems to exist just to effortlessly solve a problem that seems unsolvable"

is it a deus ex machina if it DOESN'T solve the problem?

No it isn't but don't tell the people that hate Cawl that and keep calling him a Mary Sue despite not fitting the definition whatsoever.

It solved a problem in a pretty staggeringly lazy way. Where were all these guys every other times the Imperium was nearly obliterated? Like, the loss of Cadia was huge, but didn't The Beast nearly invade Terra? Didn't Horus literally kill the emperor?

Also, I feel like it took away too much from the Emperor being this mystical supergenius that his most famed creations - the space marines - weren't A. something he created himself, alone, and B. needed help from a bunch of nerds to improve, and C. weren't the pinnacle of their design. I always liked the desperate mutilation of the creation process, but now that they can be upgraded to be better... takes it away from the emperor a bit. His mystery and his impossible intellect and mythical might is reduced if he had a bunch of helpers, too. Makes him seem less like the kind of guy who was kept semi-undead on a throne for 10000 years out of devotion, but for dull, practical reasons, like the astronomicon.
Also, characters like Cawl who have been alive for 10,000 years? Dull. Boring. Impossible. Part of what made the mythos of the heresy so interesting was it's unknowability, that so much had been lost to history.
But now all of that can be solved by Cawl and his magic infinite conciousness brains that know everything and was also there, but only in the shadows waiting specifically for...

...idk, the death of Colour Sgt. Krell I guess...?

 posermcbogus wrote:
It solved a problem in a pretty staggeringly lazy way. Where were all these guys every other times the Imperium was nearly obliterated? Like, the loss of Cadia was huge, but didn't The Beast nearly invade Terra? Didn't Horus literally kill the emperor?

Also, I feel like it took away too much from the Emperor being this mystical supergenius that his most famed creations - the space marines - weren't A. something he created himself, alone, and B. needed help from a bunch of nerds to improve, and C. weren't the pinnacle of their design. I always liked the desperate mutilation of the creation process, but now that they can be upgraded to be better... takes it away from the emperor a bit. His mystery and his impossible intellect and mythical might is reduced if he had a bunch of helpers, too. Makes him seem less like the kind of guy who was kept semi-undead on a throne for 10000 years out of devotion, but for dull, practical reasons, like the astronomicon.
Also, characters like Cawl who have been alive for 10,000 years? Dull. Boring. Impossible. Part of what made the mythos of the heresy so interesting was it's unknowability, that so much had been lost to history.
But now all of that can be solved by Cawl and his magic infinite conciousness brains that know everything and was also there, but only in the shadows waiting specifically for...

...idk, the death of Colour Sgt. Krell I guess...?

I agree with most of your comments, however the emperor wasn't the sole creator of marines and hasn't been since their inception.


There are a lot of aspects to cawls introduction and the consequences of him and his work that have affects on 40k larger than themselves

Hellebore wrote:

 posermcbogus wrote:
It solved a problem in a pretty staggeringly lazy way. Where were all these guys every other times the Imperium was nearly obliterated? Like, the loss of Cadia was huge, but didn't The Beast nearly invade Terra? Didn't Horus literally kill the emperor?

Also, I feel like it took away too much from the Emperor being this mystical supergenius that his most famed creations - the space marines - weren't A. something he created himself, alone, and B. needed help from a bunch of nerds to improve, and C. weren't the pinnacle of their design. I always liked the desperate mutilation of the creation process, but now that they can be upgraded to be better... takes it away from the emperor a bit. His mystery and his impossible intellect and mythical might is reduced if he had a bunch of helpers, too. Makes him seem less like the kind of guy who was kept semi-undead on a throne for 10000 years out of devotion, but for dull, practical reasons, like the astronomicon.
Also, characters like Cawl who have been alive for 10,000 years? Dull. Boring. Impossible. Part of what made the mythos of the heresy so interesting was it's unknowability, that so much had been lost to history.
But now all of that can be solved by Cawl and his magic infinite conciousness brains that know everything and was also there, but only in the shadows waiting specifically for...

...idk, the death of Colour Sgt. Krell I guess...?

I agree with most of your comments, however the emperor wasn't the sole creator of marines and hasn't been since their inception.


There are a lot of aspects to cawls introduction and the consequences of him and his work that have affects on 40k larger than themselves

I agree, when I was a kid it was the SM that were the emperor's greatest heros with Grey knights just above them. When I got back into it, now there's the Death watch who are better, Custodes who are even better, and now Primaris who are even betterer!

Jimbobbyish wrote:

Hellebore wrote:

 posermcbogus wrote:
It solved a problem in a pretty staggeringly lazy way. Where were all these guys every other times the Imperium was nearly obliterated? Like, the loss of Cadia was huge, but didn't The Beast nearly invade Terra? Didn't Horus literally kill the emperor?

Also, I feel like it took away too much from the Emperor being this mystical supergenius that his most famed creations - the space marines - weren't A. something he created himself, alone, and B. needed help from a bunch of nerds to improve, and C. weren't the pinnacle of their design. I always liked the desperate mutilation of the creation process, but now that they can be upgraded to be better... takes it away from the emperor a bit. His mystery and his impossible intellect and mythical might is reduced if he had a bunch of helpers, too. Makes him seem less like the kind of guy who was kept semi-undead on a throne for 10000 years out of devotion, but for dull, practical reasons, like the astronomicon.
Also, characters like Cawl who have been alive for 10,000 years? Dull. Boring. Impossible. Part of what made the mythos of the heresy so interesting was it's unknowability, that so much had been lost to history.
But now all of that can be solved by Cawl and his magic infinite conciousness brains that know everything and was also there, but only in the shadows waiting specifically for...

...idk, the death of Colour Sgt. Krell I guess...?

I agree with most of your comments, however the emperor wasn't the sole creator of marines and hasn't been since their inception.


There are a lot of aspects to cawls introduction and the consequences of him and his work that have affects on 40k larger than themselves

I agree, when I was a kid it was the SM that were the emperor's greatest heros with Grey knights just above them. When I got back into it, now there's the Death watch who are better, Custodes who are even better, and now Primaris who are even betterer!

I’m deathwatch aren’t better, grey knights are slightly better, primarus is even more better and custodes are technically best.
Primarus are basically just a marine custodes hybrid.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:No it isn't but don't tell the people that hate Cawl that and keep calling him a Mary Sue despite not fitting the definition whatsoever.

He is the most mary-ist of all the Sue's.

But no, Cawl isnt the worst thing in the game....I mean at least he's not Tau.


SARCASM, it's corpse starch soup for the soul.


They do need to work on developing Him a little bit more (like his inferior, etc...).

Can someone explain to me what the last, 2 pages (?) has to do with the topic?

Not that some of these discussions aren't interesting, but they don't belong here. The entire pont of making a new thread was so that posters have a place to speculate on and discuss PA news without it getting clogged with off topic discussion.

Back to topic, cheers.

Not sure if this goes here or YMDC.

The Eight have chain exploding CiBs where they take a wound for every 1 rolled and Tau get one wound if the weapon rolls one or more 1s.

Eagerly await the errata for this....

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Can someone explain to me what the last, 2 pages (?) has to do with the topic?

Not that some of these discussions aren't interesting, but they don't belong here. The entire pont of making a new thread was so that posters have a place to speculate on and discuss PA news without it getting clogged with off topic discussion.

Back to topic, cheers.

yeah, it's a bit annoying having the thread get hijacked by the "Primaris bad" crowd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 posermcbogus wrote:
It solved a problem in a pretty staggeringly lazy way. Where were all these guys every other times the Imperium was nearly obliterated? Like, the loss of Cadia was huge, but didn't The Beast nearly invade Terra? Didn't Horus literally kill the emperor?

whats possiably more grim dark then the IoM having the solution to a problem and not deploying it because they needed the signature of a guy who was in stasis at the time?

BrianDavion wrote:


whats possiably more grim dark then the IoM having the solution to a problem and not deploying it because they needed the signature of a guy who was in stasis at the time?

The blistering speed of bureaucracy. Or he didnt initial & date page 734 sec 3 line 44. He signed for a delayed deployment of +/- 8000 years

I can see the Hardened Missiles being a very common Sept Tenant, especially for Broadside detachments.

The only question I have is if Prototype weapons apply to every model in the unit, or a select model.

 Nilok wrote:
I can see the Hardened Missiles being a very common Sept Tenant, especially for Broadside detachments.

The only question I have is if Prototype weapons apply to every model in the unit, or a select model.

Looks good for Coldstars with Missile Pods too.

For the Prototype it depends on the weapon, the Magma Rail Rifles clear say it replaces every Heavy Rail Rifle in the unit, and the Gattling Burst Cannons are the same, but the defensive AFP clearly says model so only the one gets it.

If anyone has their books for greater good, Is their any generic tank ace traits? The Forgeworld Leman russ tanks don't have the Leman Russ keyword, and half the malcador tanks are not lord of war choices anymore.

Edit:
Nevermind. found the information

Apparently we shouldn't be so hasty is discounting Sisters getting their PA rules - Revenge of the Return to Sanctuary 101 here we come

Has anyone point blank asked them what factions still haven't gotten rules? I know harlequinns were discussed recently on here

Sisters PA rules eh ? Very interesting.

GaroRobe wrote:
Has anyone point blank asked them what factions still haven't gotten rules? I know harlequinns were discussed recently on here

Deamons are still waiting...

mortar_crew wrote:

GaroRobe wrote:
Has anyone point blank asked them what factions still haven't gotten rules? I know harlequinns were discussed recently on here

Deamons are still waiting...

They're up in Engine War. Along with both knight factions and admech.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Sisters PA rules eh ? Very interesting.

And then 9th edition.

TRADITION!

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Sisters PA rules eh ? Very interesting.

And then 9th edition.

TRADITION!

Eh, tradition is a couple of months after the Codex, so it looks like we're breaking with tradition here.

Shame GK have been done already, as Sisters/GK/DW vs. Something could have made for an interesting story with ties back tot he Inquisition.

I think it'd be a joke if Sisters also get PA rules, given their codex was released during this campaign.

Hopefully if they get anything it's just custom order traits, like Dark Eldar.

Why would it be a joke ? If these are all supposed to buff power, sisters aren't exactly breaking the meta so they could benefit from it about as much as anyone else. As well, GW wanna GW why should they miss the power train while everyone else is already riding it ?

Not dropping some PA rules for sisters just because their codex is new just seems kinda lame for them and their players after already having had to wait forever for a codex and a model update.

If all you play is sisters you can't even be said to have book fatigue as you really only had one new book for awhile so far.