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I'd have liked to be able to rank the options, because I'd be fine with a big kickstarter drop, a modest slow-grow release, or a full digital game. But I guess I'm probably in the minority and most people have some preference.

 kodos wrote:

(knowing people to print is fine but having official shops for printing would really help a lot)

oh 100% agree. I would be all over a plastic, physical, 2 player set as a preference.

I didn't really register the resin release option. I think that could be a very happy compromise for me, personally.

I think, my preferred option is 1 & 2, doing a full digital release now and a KS in addition to add plastic models

I think digital + STLs is not going anywhere as while some people do have access to a 3d printer a lot don't and a fair number of those that do and are interested in epic are will already be committed to fan versions of the old Epic GW games

so they need a physical product to launch

Stores would no doubt prefer resin as that doesn't cut them out in the way a KS would, but would resin be price competitive enough compared to GW? and could mantic actually produce in with sufficient speed (wasn't one reason they went digital for the tail end of the Armada releases down to production bottle necks)

so that leaves a KS for plastics as probably the most sensible option (and gives them the chance to sell the stuff as alien race options to the old epic GW community since GW isn't going to be feeding that market for a long time)

Interesting to see where they are taking Warpath.

I was a big fan of the original free Warpath "Beta" rules which predated firefight by several years. They were basically a sci-fi version of the first edition of Kings of War. They were my favorite way to fight apocalypse-size battles since -just like KoW- it's basically a ruleset optimized for 15mm but sold for 28mm. We had a good time putting massive 40k armies on the table and yet still finishing up our games in a reasonable amount of time using Beta Warpath.

https://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/2014/12/its-my-birthday-and-ill-play-warpath-if/

I'll probably give the rules a look-over. I grew less and less impressed with Warpath in successive versions and Grimdark future has filled my niche for fast-play 40k, but I do have alot of 10mm sci-fi units I haven't used in a while.

Do we have confirmation that Warpath is 6/8mm? I don't see anything specific in the previous posts.

 Eilif wrote:
Do we have confirmation that Warpath is 6/8mm? I don't see anything specific in the previous posts.

the painted models in the preview picture are 8mm scale while the blog mentions 4 infantry, 2 heavy infantry, 1 walker per base while it was mentioned that scale will be bigger than the new Epic from GW
might be closer to 15mm rather than 8mm

 Eilif wrote:
Do we have confirmation that Warpath is 6/8mm? I don't see anything specific in the previous posts.

12mm. Infantry 4 to a base (round). Walkers 1 to a base (round). Tanks on bases (oval).

Hey Matt, would you all consider doing a scale that's compatible with that other company's entry into small scale wargaming (i.e., about 1/4 the size of your FireFight/Deadzone minis)?

It is quite a bummer, the whole timing of this affair, but a big draw of your product (for me) is how I can mix and match your models with other models, to create the army of my choice.

If the scales are very different, I won't be able to do this. I already have a bunch of Mechwarrior figures that are about 10mm, and probably won't look that out of place against GW Epic (TBD), but I'd prefer to not have 12mm mixed in if that's an option you'd consider...!

Does anyone else do 12mm sci fi?

I don't think 7mm is currently a popular size either
GW is doing 8mm now so 10mm will look off similar to 12mm, while with 4 models per base difference won't be that big next to 12mm while doing less but larger models will look odd next to 8mm
Question is if 10mm is total size or "to the eyes" as the later will fit 12mm total size better

And Star Wars and Gundam are available in 1/144 as are a lot of scale models
Everything else is either 6mm, 10mm or 15mm

Big oof. Huge oof. And then a year from now Warcradle will be releasing theirs into two direct competitors for Oof 3: Bride of Oof.

12mm is an awkward size tho, I implore you to reconsider either same scale as GW, 10mm or 15mm.

Not interested in resin/siocast, I'd got for a KS with 1 sprue per faction with one of everything on it, make 20+ of the same sprue a reasonable purchase. And STL for rare units and upgrades.

There's plenty of 15mm stuff out there. Laserburn stuff is 15mm but probably not the same 15mm as the modern stuff.


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 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'd got for a KS with 1 sprue per faction with one of everything on it, make 20+ of the same sprue a reasonable purchase

This would be great, especially if we can get them in different colors per faction. ie Marauders in green.

12mm would be great, honestly.

Most "10mm" games are 1/144 which is actually 12mm. Heavy Gear is that scale, Reaper's CAV, Firestorm: Planetfall and the Wizkids clickytech Mechwarrior were also all 12mm. It's also N-scale for trains which is popular, so terrain is easy. And of course there's a bunch of Gundam stuff in that scale

I would definitely pledge for plastic 12mm Warpath, probably pledge for 15mm Warpath on KS, but I doubt I'd even really look at it for 6mm/8mm. I already have that scale on lockdown between Battletech, Alpha Strike, NetEpic and Gundam Skirmish, none of which see enough table time as it is. Warpath would need to be a truly incredible ruleset to even compete at 6/8mm.

12mm. Lost interest.
Why not stick with 8-10mm keeping scale with GW and DZC models.
It's not the thought of bigger models, but yet another whole batch of terrain and boards at yet another scale. The thought of not being able to use existing terrain puts me off totally.

10mm so its compatible with my dropzone models / terrain would be great.
And hips plastic or don't bother.

At this point, the GW stuff will be out very very soon... making it the same scale as that seems like the way to go.

not really, the new Epic won't feature anything non-Marines and Mantic does not have anything that would fit into the Horus Heresy, same with their terrain

next is 8mm is more or less unique to GW so nothing else would fit that line as well

so more or less it really depends "what" 12mm we are talking about
as for example Kalistra is selling 10mm models that are 12mm in total, while GHQ 10mm ones are 10mm total
the old Firestorm Planetfall line was 12mm but advertised as 10mm
also 1/144 is advertised as 10mm or 12mm depending on company

the article also mentions that an existing terrain line was sourced and upgraded with bits to fit the WP universe, so it must be compatible with an existing line

so question is, is it 12mm total, fitting the larger 10mm models/lines or 12mm "to the eye" which puts it closer to the 15mm lines out there

PS: and if someone plans to use 10mm terrain for 8mm scale because the difference is not that big, it is also not that big to 12mm

I'd be interested in a 12mm to 15mm game but only in HIPS - resin and stls hold no interest for me. At the scale it should be possible to do most armies in 2 sprues - infantry and vehicles. I'd hoped a rerelease of Epic would scratch that small scale itch but the setting and Marine focus isn't it. Warpath could definitely be it if done right.

I'm interested in the line " With a view to a potential retail launch, we’ve sourced a plastic terrain range and sculpted new components for it to match the design of our 28mm sci-fi battlezones terrain" makes me wonder if they might get Archons Rampart terrain rescaled with a few add ons?

Enforcers are currently sculpted 12mm to the top of the head. So GCPS will be about 11mm to the top, Forge Fathers probably 10mm.

Glad to see they're not going with GW's new 8mm epic scale. It doesn't sound like much, but at these sizes, the difference between 8mm and 10mm is considerable. GW is the only company doing 8mm and it's silly. Though IIRC, Battletech (nominally 6mm scale) infantry sometimes were nearly that big...

 mattjgilbert wrote:
Enforcers are currently sculpted 12mm to the top of the head. So GCPS will be about 11mm to the top, Forge Fathers probably 10mm.

11mm to the top of a human head is effectively 10mm. That makes it appealing to those of us with Dropzone, CAV, and MechWarrior Dark age figs which are all 10mm. 10mm is also the same as N scale (1/160) which opens alot of terrain options. It also means that it's mostly compatible with 1/144 (11mm) stuff like Heavy Gear.

This is good news. As someone who games small scale with rebased MWDA figures this is very good news to me. I had just posted earlier that I wasn't particularly interested, but now I'm thinking about maybe picking a few units up!


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kodos 786779 11574911 wrote:

so question is, is it 12mm total, fitting the larger 10mm models/lines or 12mm "to the eye" which puts it closer to the 15mm lines out there

Proper 15mm is 15mm to the eye and should scale about to 1/100.

Manitcs kickstaters are usually pretty epic deals. If they release the physical version and the digital version on kickstarter I could see the digital version being very tempting as I have a 3d printer. STLs usually being very affordable.

another point that might be worth doing a KS is if we again see language packages like with Dungeon Saga

 Eilif wrote:
Proper 15mm is 15mm to the eye and should scale about to 1/100.

of course it should be but some are advertising their stuff with 15mm as in total model size
hence why we needed that clarification as 12mm total is something different than 12mm to the eye, specially as some model lines that advertise 10mm are effective 12mm in total size

 kodos wrote:
another point that might be worth doing a KS is if we again see language packages like with Dungeon Saga

 Eilif wrote:
Proper 15mm is 15mm to the eye and should scale about to 1/100.

of course it should be but some are advertising their stuff with 15mm as in total model size
hence why we needed that clarification as 12mm total is something different than 12mm to the eye, specially as some model lines that advertise 10mm are effective 12mm in total size

I do agree that clarification about scale to-the-eye is necessary.

 kodos wrote:
The Mule weapons are not available as cast version at all and the boxed version coms with different turrets

Having the upgrade part to print from the start is a good thing for all those that already have enough Mules

Might also be to get more retailers to go with a vendor license for the vault

Not every retailer has or wants to operate 3D printers.

Sounds about perfect, so long as it's HIPS.

Started looking around and was about to lament how expensive Tomytech buildings have gotten, but just found a bunch of Outland Models office buildings on Amazon for $5 to $10 with even larger and more detailed ones only going for $15~$25, all made of ABS plastic.

I need to stop this, Warpath 12mm isn't even a confirmed project yet

 mattjgilbert wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
Do we have confirmation that Warpath is 6/8mm? I don't see anything specific in the previous posts.

12mm. Infantry 4 to a base (round). Walkers 1 to a base (round). Tanks on bases (oval).

If they’re close to Dropzone Commander in scale, my interest goes way up.

Unfortunately, I can’t promise to put any money towards it this year, as much as I would love some alien looking tanks and dropships.

Another person here who is keen and who would prefer to see the scale moved back a little.

"Epic" scale is such a niche market that making the minis as compatable with others - and more importantly terrain - removes a barrier to entry.

Definitely interested in this, and as a fan of small scale, I don't think you can have too many Miniatures available!

I like the idea of a plastic sprue and nice clean ruleset, I'll make sure I have a read of the proposed rules. It might make a nice counterpoint to the new Epic game, which looks like it will be a fairly involved affair.

As for the scale, 12mm doesn't mean it's automatically out of scale with other small scale ranges. It's easy to have something labelled "10mm" or "8mm" to be actually 12 or 10mm tall in reality. Depends of the miniatures, the proportions and other considerations.

Good to see Mantic to try that path. I don't see that as a "knockoff" of GW LI, since it's really about their Warpath universe. It's not Space marines vs Space Marines.

If they translate that in other languages than english, it may interest people.

for the rules:

we have also phases with alternating activation of units (initiative rolld at at the start of each phase) and no shooting and moving after like in the previous version

command phase to give hidden orders, that are either move, move double or Overwatch, than Movement phase with alt activation, Overwatch phase with alt activation and Combat phase with alt activation for either normal shooting or melee
units with a normal move order get the option to shoot or do nothing in the Combat phase, units that reach an enemy with the movement order count as charging, units with an overwatch order being charged can shoot one of the charging units unless it is a blast weapon or have a minimum range
Pinning is there as well, making units unable to get the Overwatch order, so will come in handy for melee units to pin their targets before they charge

while there are some similarities with the IL rules preview the details are different, like charge is its own order in epic and they activate detachments not units while shooting happens after melee unless there was an order to shot first etc.
melee looks to be more streamlined in WP than in IL as each unit only fights once and melee is the same as shooting (to hit & to wound)

unit organisation is any number of companies, and a single company is similar to a force in Firefight but with a max of 4 Troops (1 Specialist per Troop, 1 Support per 2 Troops), making it max 11 units + transports per company

it is interesting how both took old Epic as source and came to different conclusions, so for "Epic" it looks good but I am not sure of a little bit more old-Warpath would be better

I'll be very curious to give these rules a read.

Mantic generally has pretty solid rule sets...