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for large scale, it makes them easier to place on terrain and you want see much of the base anyway is it should be of the same footprint

for small scale models, well no real disadvantages

Sad to see that it will be 12mm. Too big. :-(

I already have Epic and 10mm fantasy, and will get some LI. Bigger than 10mm does not feel "epic" at all for me, and I already have terrain for those.

I'm pro bases for vehicles, I always found it odd that they were the only thing not on bases in other games. And it makes a lot of rules simpler.

Happy with 10-12mm as will work with dropzone stuff. Having terrain usable between both will be handy. Also opens up the possibility of using stuff for both, such as gcps as resistance.

I am kind of ambivalent about the bases thing. I know it's fairly popular even at 15mm scale (Flames of War & the forged in battle range), it's mostly just laziness that stops me from doing it.

Scale-wise for the game I don't mind that much. It should be close enough in scale that I can use Epic/Legions terrain, and Alessio being involved gives me great hope for the ruleset.

I'm pro tanks being on bases but only if the bases are round and distances are measured to/from bases. All other methods of doing it are either hard to judge properly (see dropzone and it's centre of model to centre of model method), or result in turning on the spot changing the distance between things and having modelling decisions matter to gameplay (like 40k where old/new rhino models are different sizes).

Have a lot of faith in Alessio and Matt in terms of rules writing.

WHFB 6th, LotR, KoW are top-tier games, the general trick is to not overcomplicate things too much and have any complexity which is in there match the narrative or the miniatures.

As far as terrain goes, I play KoW at 10mm, and both 6mm and 15mm terrain works pretty well, the only exception is buildings.

Yeah I don’t see 6mm vs. 12mm being that different for terrain. It’s all so vague in the marketplace.

 mattl wrote:
Yeah I don’t see 6mm vs. 12mm being that different for terrain. It’s all so vague in the marketplace.

For natural things I totally agree. Trees, bushes, hedges, rivers, hills. But buildings are the ones that can look really out of place.
And I figure a lot of Warpath games won't be fighting across rolling green fantasy battle style fields.

Yeah, you're talking about a 100% difference in scale factor there, all your minis will be twice the size at 12mm compared to 6mm. You can get away with hills and trees and rivers and the like, your natural features will become half as imposing, but they are usable. Anything else though? Yeah, no.

A lot of Epic-scale terrain out there is made for Epic which is already very affected by scale creep.

Mantic have mentioned their own terrain too, which I'm sure will be perfect for their scale.

that 6 and 12mm needs different sized terrain is not a problem
no one complains that their existing 6mm epic or battletech terrain is not compatible anymore with the new LI stuff

or that the existing 28mm 40k terrain collection does not fit the new 32mm scaled models or is not compatible with the new rules

yet Mantic must take care that they make models that fits existing collection, despite there is no defined standard in that scale at all outside of 1/144

looking at different older miniature lines that are advertised at 10mm, a 12mm Enforcer would be smaller than some of those 10mm models

and the only thing were different sized terrain could be a problem would be True Line of Sight but given that even the 28mm games use height values I doubt that Warpath will have that
so if the building is in 12mm or 10mm is less of an issue and looks less out of place than 28mm terrain with 32mm models

Wut.

12mm is 100% larger than 6mm. That means that terrain sized for 6mm is half as small as it should be when used with 12mm models, or terrain sized for 12mm models is twice as large as it should be when used with 6mm models. These are not interchangeable. If you have a 6mm scale house, your 12mm models will be larger than the doors and windows. If you have a 12mm scale house, your 6mm models wouldn't be tall enough to reach the doorknob. Its kind of a huge problem.

32mm is only 12.5% larger than 28mm. Using 28mm terrain models with 32mm models, or 32mm terrain with 28mm models is not a problem. 12.5% is less than the natural human variance in height.

Likewise, 12mm is only 20% larger than 10mm, terrain sized for one will be fine with another.

But not when the terrain is literall half or twice the size it should be as would be the case with 6mm vs 12mm.

I am used to all of my Epic scale trees being giant Canadian Redwoods, except alien ones that are already double the size of those ones!

chaos0xomega wrote:
Wut.
12mm is 100% larger than 6mm.

and no one ever should expect 6mm terrain to fit larger scale
it does not matter if this is 12mm, 10mm or 15mm, 6mm stuff won't fit at all
and there is no reason why Mantic should go for 6mm when Battletech covers that spot very well while GW is going for their very own "1/4th of whatever the large stuff is" small game

anything larger will fit fine, as the difference between 10mm and 12mm is not big enough to make a difference for terrain

and if people thought they are going to use their old GW Epic stuff because it won't fit the new GW Epic game, they still can if they want and it will look out of place no matter the scale of Warpath

 Pacific wrote:
I am used to all of my Epic scale trees being giant Canadian Redwoods, except alien ones that are already double the size of those ones!

Trees are always wildly out of scale. Even at Epic scale, true-sized redwood trees would dwarf everything else at the table.

If you had 6mm already and wanted this game to match with them, I can see being a bit upset. But I'm interested in this game precisely because I DON'T have an existing small scale collection, and this is an accessible and hopefully (!) affordable way to get one.

If I had 6mm or 10mm stuff already I wouldn't be interested in this, I'd be 3D printing more or whatever. But I'm not into 3D printing, so this is what I've got available for Sci Fi.

The main thing I'm hoping is that Marauders get some stuff in the KS. I dunno if it's still the done thing with KS to have lots of stretch goals, I stopped paying attention some time around 2018, but do people with more experience think it's likely that Marauders and the non-Enforcer humans will get releases? Because they're my favourite Mantic Sci Fi factions...

Guess it depends on the funding but the first 4 armies have been chosen.

https://www.manticgames.com/news/warpath-needs-you/

.. the two planned armies in the box – Enforcers and Plague, with plenty of infantry, tanks (Enforcer Panther tanks!) and walkers. These armies have had the most playtesting. The follow-up two are planned to be Forge Fathers and Asterians.

Better to fully fund that than half do a few armies.

Funding wise the OG Warpath KS took $485K, most of their wargame KS take in the region of £300k to £400k. The OG Deadzone at $1.2m is an outlier partly fueled by the terrain and hasn't got close since. On that basis expect 4 armies and terrain anything over their normal funding levels might see more added.

Glad to hear they're going with ~10mm scale (wtih 12mm Enforcers). Allowing all but the most exacting of the scale police to proxy in their Dropzone Commander or (new) Epic minis (and probably vice versa) will hopefully work well for them. I had thought I had read somewhere they were sticking with 30mm, and I was thinking I'd pass - I played a "small" game of Firefight (at 30mm) and the board was PACKED. I didn't think they could make it work at that scale....

lol, turns out I'm right, I guess?

And Plague vs. Enforcers for the starter is excellent. I'll be in on day one.

I wonder how well it will do. Got great designer chops (hooray Matt, good to see your fingerprints on this one!) and if the minis look decent... I don't know if they'll crack a million... But hopefully it'll do OK

Can't wait.

I'd be more excited for the rats than any of those 4 but okay.

Yeah, the only chance of getting my money in on this was Veer-myn

Hopeful for it to be expanded to 8 factions, but 4 is pretty good to start with.

A good basis for creating additional factions without too much additional outlay would be having striders, hornets, mules (and some new tanks) etc. as common vehicle sprues which could be used across GCPS/Marauders/Plague/Rebs since they all have the same tech base.

Plague vs. Enforcers is solid as starter factions, two very iconic and very different factions which were also the launch factions for deadzone v1, so it's going full circle.

Small elite high-tech faction vs. endless slavering hordes is a classic matchup which will work great at the scale.

 Da Boss wrote:


The main thing I'm hoping is that Marauders get some stuff in the KS. I dunno if it's still the done thing with KS to have lots of stretch goals, I stopped paying attention some time around 2018, but do people with more experience think it's likely that Marauders and the non-Enforcer humans will get releases? Because they're my favourite Mantic Sci Fi factions...

I've only done one Mantic KS in recent years - Dungeon Saga Origins, it didn't have any stretch goals as such, but it did daily reveals.

I think that Ronnie said something along the lines of "treating people like adults", so the fake stretch goals thing got ditched for that.

yeah, those stretch goals for stuff they want to do anyway was replaced by daily reveals which has the same purpose, to get people come back at the end to sse what more they can get

for the KS itself, Ronni has given several interviews on Kickstarter related channels to talk about the actual cost and how important it is to have a plan for what to do after (so that you don't run into the problem if needing to make a KS to get money to fulfill the previous one)

trying to read between the lines, the initial release was planned with 2 factions and plastic terrain (everything within a single starter box) straight to retail but because of Epic they wanna change that and make a bigger release
so we get 4 factions, hence the KS to get money for the tools to make the 2 additional ones

Options I see here is that if the KS is more successful than expected, they add more factions sooner than later (adding all of the core factions over time from the universe is to be expected anyway) and maybe expand the 4 release ones (though as having several different 2 player sets is part of their general lineup, having to many factions on the first release won't do it)

and something I hope for, that like the last KS we get an offer for language packs on the rules

Fair enough. Good that they're being upfront!

Hopefully the game does well enough to get some more factions, starting with 4 is already a lot but I'd much rather have Marauders than Asterians personally!

I'd really appreciate it if we didn't get fake stretch goals. But at the same time, I guess those are the norm for a reason and the campaign could do worse without?

The last two KS they ran (Worms and DSO) didn't do Funding Stretch Goals; they pulled in 500k and 400k respectively, which sounds fine for Mantic boardgames kind of funding.

Prior to that (Terraincrate 3), it was traditional Stretch Goals.

Maybe Ronnie's been listening to the street, realised that people are wising up to the falseness of them and ditching them before a lot of the KS projects follow suit. Mantic gets ahead of the game and a bit of honesty always looks good.

I don't get the issue with stretch goals, they might not make sense for some things, but for other things they make sense. what is wrong with stating if we get enough incoming we will add in Xtra which wouldn't otherwise be viable?

I certainly find the description of them being somehow dishonest to be very bizarre - how is the use of stretch goals dishonest? I've yet to feell anyone ripped me off, or was dishonest about stretch goals. I go into something and it states the stretch goals, or stuff gets added in later which is just freebies for me, can't see where the dishonesty lies.

depends on what those are

KS is used mainly as a marketing tool by some companies with goals being not there to get extra funding but get people into spending more money than they initial wanted

and yes, it is hard to spot if some goals are really there because they cannot be made without the extra, while others often are things that would have been done anyway

but it also changed what people expect from a KS, as if everything is unlocked within an hour, there is no hype running for the full time and people who don't pledge early won't come back at the end either

so something must be there to keep the people engaged which Mantic has done by daily reveals in past 2 KS
while something like the language packs were still a regular Stretch Goal that needed funding to be done

puree wrote:
I certainly find the description of them being somehow dishonest to be very bizarre - how is the use of stretch goals dishonest? I've yet to feell anyone ripped me off, or was dishonest about stretch goals. I go into something and it states the stretch goals, or stuff gets added in later which is just freebies for me, can't see where the dishonesty lies.

There are times when items that were always going to get made are presented as stretch goals just to get more hype, to justify spamming updates, and to artificially lower the initial funding target because campaigns that fund quick do better overall. The most blatant, undeniable example are stretch goals that claim new bits will be added to a plastic sprue. Like any company was going to pay for tooling of a sprue with blank spaces in it if they fail to reach that goal Gak like that is dishonest and frankly insulting to our intelligence.

I'm super in. Even the VERY early playtest rules were just so playable and accessible that it felt bull**** free, and meant to be enjoyed. With Alessio and Matt polishing further, I expect a great game, and the scale is one where Mantic's value proposition shines.

If the KS provides genuinely huge armies, at low prices, I will be going in hard for all four armies.

Legion Imperialis is sooooo close to what I wanted it to be, but horrid pricing, and GW's business model means I will be a dabbler at best.

Also, Heresy-era is a turd. I want genuinely diverse armies aesthetically and mechanically, so potentially years and years of Marines vs. Men is deeply annoying.