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Looks like we just inched over the Marauders line, hopefully Mantic will have some graphics up for them soon to ride the hype wave up to nameless.


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Also the Enforcers and Asterian superheavies look ace, as does the second superheavy for Asterians.

 Pacific wrote:
I think what might be the biggest sell for this for GW fans is how quick and clean the ruleset seems to be. Especially now that Legions has been in the wilds for a while, that is not a game for casual play, I think you need to devote a lot of time and energy to learning and playing the game. The nice one-line weapon profiles of the Warpath units might seem appealing to anyone looking through page-long unit profiles in Legions and trying to work out which dice to roll, which have modifiers etc.

I’m curious what rough percentage of current GW fans care enough about rules quality to buy not GW for better rules.

I'm torn. Do I go wide and increase my pledge to Captain and get four plastic starters? Or deep, keep my Lieutenant pledge, and get the resin add ons?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
I think what might be the biggest sell for this for GW fans is how quick and clean the ruleset seems to be. Especially now that Legions has been in the wilds for a while, that is not a game for casual play, I think you need to devote a lot of time and energy to learning and playing the game. The nice one-line weapon profiles of the Warpath units might seem appealing to anyone looking through page-long unit profiles in Legions and trying to work out which dice to roll, which have modifiers etc.

I’m curious what rough percentage of current GW fans care enough about rules quality to buy not GW for better rules.

My guess is only the slimest minority. I have encountered a fair few GW fans and customers who are entirely unaware that other games and rulesets even exist.

 infinite_array wrote:
I'm torn. Do I go wide and increase my pledge to Captain and get four plastic starters? Or deep, keep my Lieutenant pledge, and get the resin add ons?

This was my dilemma! I've just gone up to Captain, it felt like better value than the reinforcement boxes. It's still nailbiting choosing between the 7(hopefully 8) factions on offer, I think I'm currently veering towards GCPS, Veer-myn, Marauders and Asterians


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chaos0xomega wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
I think what might be the biggest sell for this for GW fans is how quick and clean the ruleset seems to be. Especially now that Legions has been in the wilds for a while, that is not a game for casual play, I think you need to devote a lot of time and energy to learning and playing the game. The nice one-line weapon profiles of the Warpath units might seem appealing to anyone looking through page-long unit profiles in Legions and trying to work out which dice to roll, which have modifiers etc.

I’m curious what rough percentage of current GW fans care enough about rules quality to buy not GW for better rules.

My guess is only the slimest minority. I have encountered a fair few GW fans and customers who are entirely unaware that other games and rulesets even exist.

The market is *lapsed* GW fans, rather than people currently playing. That makes a big difference imo

 infinite_array wrote:
I'm torn. Do I go wide and increase my pledge to Captain and get four plastic starters? Or deep, keep my Lieutenant pledge, and get the resin add ons?

Plastic is cheaper than resin (or even STLs, for some reason) but I'm guessing you'll have better games with a complete faction.

My take on it is to go wide if you have a 3D printer, and go deep if you don't.

Double Captain (£298) + £125 STLs = £423 for every model you'll ever need for the game is really good value for "printer go brrr" types.

Without one, £89 lieutenant + £150 for two factions of reinforcements and 4 super heavies is also pretty good, maybe with a couple of sets of faction dice and KS exclusive counters to finish.

 Albertorius wrote:
Yes, it's exactly like that

Ah, thank you.

Alas, that means I'm out. I'm trying to transition away from "bundles of physical miniatures" Kickstarters, due to a closet already full of them and modern shipping costs/delays/issues/hassle/something-always-happens-these-days-with-the-shipping.

Maybe later, if those units hit the Vault in the future.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
I think what might be the biggest sell for this for GW fans is how quick and clean the ruleset seems to be. Especially now that Legions has been in the wilds for a while, that is not a game for casual play, I think you need to devote a lot of time and energy to learning and playing the game. The nice one-line weapon profiles of the Warpath units might seem appealing to anyone looking through page-long unit profiles in Legions and trying to work out which dice to roll, which have modifiers etc.

I’m curious what rough percentage of current GW fans care enough about rules quality to buy not GW for better rules.

Haha that is probably a good point. Myself and a bunch of guys in my group have given up on Necromunda rules and are using One Page Rules for example, so we do exist. At least one person I know has been put off Legions due to how crunchy the rules are. Although ultimately we are still suckers as we are buying GW minis - I guess GW doesn't care why the money flows, only that it flows!

On Billicus' point above, I think you have a fair few people who still play some GW games and go outside of that silo as well. Though I am sure there are also some 'never GW'ers, broken ex-WHFB players who had the rug pulled out from under them etc.

scarletsquig wrote:
My take on it is to go wide if you have a 3D printer, and go deep if you don't.

Double Captain (£298) + £125 STLs = £423 for every model you'll ever need for the game is really good value for "printer go brrr" types.

Without one, £89 lieutenant + £150 for two factions of reinforcements and 4 super heavies is also pretty good, maybe with a couple of sets of faction dice and KS exclusive counters to finish.

This is my current plan, but I'll probably stage the spending over the waiting time

I have too many 500€ kickstarters already collecting dust in my basement to go all in like that gain. 2 factions for me + some friends piggybacking on my pledge.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
I think what might be the biggest sell for this for GW fans is how quick and clean the ruleset seems to be. Especially now that Legions has been in the wilds for a while, that is not a game for casual play, I think you need to devote a lot of time and energy to learning and playing the game. The nice one-line weapon profiles of the Warpath units might seem appealing to anyone looking through page-long unit profiles in Legions and trying to work out which dice to roll, which have modifiers etc.

I’m curious what rough percentage of current GW fans care enough about rules quality to buy not GW for better rules.

Myself and several members of my club are in that camp. I haven't bought any new GW product in a while (cost too much and I've got a huge backlog) but I like the GW settings alot, have fairly large collection of minis (especially 40k) and have been playing with alternate rulesets for years now. KoW is my go-to for large Fantasy battles. I like it alot and will likely not be buying into "The Old World". One Page Rules is my Go-To for 40k gaming. In both cases, I have earlier edition GW rulebooks and Codex/Army books to get my fluff/background needs taken care of. In the case of OPR, the option lists are complete enough that in most cases, one can read a GW codex, pick out an army, and then stat it up straight away.

As for Epic Warpath Kickstarter, we just decided not to participate. The group is doing a fair amount of 10mm Sci-Fi right now so the 2025 delivery (not unreasonable, but not quick enough for us) plus the general lack of interest in the game itself from club members makes it not a good idea right now. There's some good Mantic discounters over here, so if interest picks up maybe we'll buy some in the future at retail, but not at this point.

The £125 STL bundle seems like absurd value to me - but I suppose it depends on whether you actually want/would use everything! And if printing is viable.

Each faction now has 8-9 booster units, and 2 super-heavies. Overall I think there are 71 units covered to date, and with the nameless that should be 81+ across 8 factions.

That averages out to about £1.50 per unit (with some units composed of 2+ unique models).

Or if you want to break it out more proportionately:
- £2.50 per Super-heavy
- £1.31 per infantry / command / vehicle unit

I like the idea of choosing a few plastic armies now, but then having the flexibility to build up more over time by just buying plastic starters through online discounters.

Will there be a Pledge Manager with the options to change your pledge afterwards?

I can only go for Captain at the moment but would upgrade to High Command later if I could.

yes, there will be a Pledge Manager for ~2 months

So the pledge manager won't be around long enough for us to likely see most of the stuff for the newer factions?

Hm 2 months definitely sounds too short to see a meaningful portion of finalized models.

There's probably going to be a month or two before the pledge manager actually opens while Mantic gets all their gak in one sock.

Realistically you're probably looking at the pledge manager closing around May-June (rough guess). You'd be surprised how many small scale models they can have sculpted between now and then. We probably won't see all the factions, but I wouldn't be shocked if a significant number of them are locked in.

 infinite_array wrote:
I'm torn. Do I go wide and increase my pledge to Captain and get four plastic starters? Or deep, keep my Lieutenant pledge, and get the resin add ons?

Have you figured that out? We are discussing / pondering but I am hesitating to order too much for a different reason: the more varied and complex one's order, the more likely there is of a delay.
If we can get a feel for the game with just the core starter boxes, I'm not shy about waiting and adding on more later through online discounted vendors.

Welcome back, dakka. In the meantime we've unlocked the tentacle people and overshot them by another 50k, but it seems no new goodies are forthcoming.

Our group decided to go for the complete STL Bundle just in case and buy resin add-ons later if needed

Yet for me I might change to captain as my son is interested in 2 factions and adding going with 4 instead of to have some variety also for demo games looks like a no-brainer

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Welcome back, dakka. In the meantime we've unlocked the tentacle people and overshot them by another 50k, but it seems no new goodies are forthcoming.

I still think they needed £50k per faction £400k total which it should get close to now so I can understand them not adding anything new, I wouldn’t mind a few more terrain sprues or something already planned though

We're also getting the STL bundle together, somehow I drummed up 8 people to chip in (for comparison, 3 people in total bought any Legions Imperialis product) and then 1-2 faction starters each.

Billicus wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:
I'm torn. Do I go wide and increase my pledge to Captain and get four plastic starters? Or deep, keep my Lieutenant pledge, and get the resin add ons?

This was my dilemma! I've just gone up to Captain, it felt like better value than the reinforcement boxes. It's still nailbiting choosing between the 7(hopefully 8) factions on offer, I think I'm currently veering towards GCPS, Veer-myn, Marauders and Asterians


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
I think what might be the biggest sell for this for GW fans is how quick and clean the ruleset seems to be. Especially now that Legions has been in the wilds for a while, that is not a game for casual play, I think you need to devote a lot of time and energy to learning and playing the game. The nice one-line weapon profiles of the Warpath units might seem appealing to anyone looking through page-long unit profiles in Legions and trying to work out which dice to roll, which have modifiers etc.

I’m curious what rough percentage of current GW fans care enough about rules quality to buy not GW for better rules.

My guess is only the slimest minority. I have encountered a fair few GW fans and customers who are entirely unaware that other games and rulesets even exist.

The market is *lapsed* GW fans, rather than people currently playing. That makes a big difference imo

What those that blindly criticize GW do not understand is, most buyers are collectors only. So obviusly only a very small percentage care about rules: the players.

I am in a lot of national and international LI groups. The proportion of players amongst collectors is so low that surprised me (no higher that 1 out of 50). I do not know if it is the same as in other games ...

I don't think it's "blind criticism" to say GW's rules ecosystem is a mess and it's driving players to other games.

SU-152 wrote:
The proportion of players amongst collectors is so low that surprised me (no higher that 1 out of 50). I do not know if it is the same as in other games ...

no, because most other games, you buy in because they are games
GW you buy for "the hobby" and gaming is not a high priority there hence why they don't care about rules, good enough for the 1 out of 50 who plays once in a while and any complaining is unheard because the other 49 will say that rules don't matter at all

Just to jump on the GW rules/players conversation:

An AOS mate of mine told me recently that he doesn't care about better systems, it's just easier to get games of GW systems than it is anything else locally (because everyone plays them because you can get games easier...).

He won't even consider picking up anything non-GW, even if I lay it all out and run demos or whatever.

ANYWAY - backed at the last minute! Very low pledge, for now, and I'll see what I can afford when the PM rolls out ha haa

easier to find players
but balance is off
must play with the right people that don't bring OP units
but it is not easy to find such players
processing error - it is easier to find players

anyway
2530 supporters and 395.990 GBP, which is more than the first WP Kickstarter but a 1000 less supporters

 kodos wrote:
2530 supporters and 395.990 GBP, which is more than the first WP Kickstarter but a 1000 less supporters

Which is some strange math since the buyin on Epic was much lower

So Warpath 28mm must have had a lot of 1$ just to see what happens backers.

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:
I'm torn. Do I go wide and increase my pledge to Captain and get four plastic starters? Or deep, keep my Lieutenant pledge, and get the resin add ons?

Have you figured that out? We are discussing / pondering but I am hesitating to order too much for a different reason: the more varied and complex one's order, the more likely there is of a delay.
If we can get a feel for the game with just the core starter boxes, I'm not shy about waiting and adding on more later through online discounted vendors.

I ended up doing neither, actually!

I just sat on my Lieutenant pledge. If what Mantic has said is true, a single core box should be enough for a full sized game. So I can see if I like the system and expand from there.

Plus, delivery is a year or more out and I'm far more conservative with my Kickstarter backings then I used to be.