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Indeed. The new one is arguably better value, precisely because the Scorpius is a dual kit - and I’m not spending money for yet another bloody Dominus

I really, really wish GW could come up with faction rules that are something other than modifier to a dice roll/stat or ignoring some sort of core rule/restriction. That sort of thing really just drives power creep in an unhelpful way, and ends up getting repeated a lot across different factions.

Octovol wrote:
All these deep strike strategms seem oddly pointless when they've already said that 9th will give you the option to hold anything in reserve for cp. What's the point of having any of these specific strategms if these books were written with 9th in mind?

Not sure, we'll have to see how the 9E rules play out, but it also wouldn't be the first time GW updated a faction with abilities at the tail end of an edition that turned out to be largely superfluous

 Kanluwen wrote:
It was posted in other region prices, not USD.

$60 for Pteraxii is stupid. It's just stupid.
It's Electropriests level of stupid. I have zero Electropriests and it looks like I will have zero Pteraxii.

The SC is $95 rather than $100, which is legitimately a great deal as the Skorpius and Techpriest alone are $105, the Skitarii bring it up to $149 once the price bump hits. So you save $50.

Of course these costs are insane for those solo boxes. Ad Mech is one of the worst point per dollar value armies out there. It's only gotten worse as time goes on, like the walkers and since the skittari came out they've had two price rises at least. Not even mentioning the intensely over costed electro priests box. The start collecting box is a good buy. The only thing that makes me sad is I don't really need the tech priest, and have 70 skittari already. So a good buy and if I had anyone around here who needed the other units, it would be golden for me. Pretty nice for a new player or one who has only a small bit of stuff so far.

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It was posted in other region prices, not USD.

$60 for Pteraxii is stupid. It's just stupid.
It's Electropriests level of stupid. I have zero Electropriests and it looks like I will have zero Pteraxii.

The SC is $95 rather than $100, which is legitimately a great deal as the Skorpius and Techpriest alone are $105, the Skitarii bring it up to $149 once the price bump hits. So you save $50.

Of course these costs are insane for those solo boxes. Ad Mech is one of the worst point per dollar value armies out there. It's only gotten worse as time goes on, like the walkers and since the skittari came out they've had two price rises at least. Not even mentioning the intensely over costed electro priests box. The start collecting box is a good buy. The only thing that makes me sad is I don't really need the tech priest, and have 70 skittari already. So a good buy and if I had anyone around here who needed the other units, it would be golden for me. Pretty nice for a new player or one who has only a small bit of stuff so far.

This is sadly the case with most of the start collecting sets, with GW's horrendous pricing you really need to try and get the value sets where possible (or perhaps stop buying GW) but so few of them are worth buying multiples of, the Imperial Guard is probably the best one but even then you end up with loads of commisars

 Huron black heart wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It was posted in other region prices, not USD.

$60 for Pteraxii is stupid. It's just stupid.
It's Electropriests level of stupid. I have zero Electropriests and it looks like I will have zero Pteraxii.

The SC is $95 rather than $100, which is legitimately a great deal as the Skorpius and Techpriest alone are $105, the Skitarii bring it up to $149 once the price bump hits. So you save $50.

Of course these costs are insane for those solo boxes. Ad Mech is one of the worst point per dollar value armies out there. It's only gotten worse as time goes on, like the walkers and since the skittari came out they've had two price rises at least. Not even mentioning the intensely over costed electro priests box. The start collecting box is a good buy. The only thing that makes me sad is I don't really need the tech priest, and have 70 skittari already. So a good buy and if I had anyone around here who needed the other units, it would be golden for me. Pretty nice for a new player or one who has only a small bit of stuff so far.

This is sadly the case with most of the start collecting sets, with GW's horrendous pricing you really need to try and get the value sets where possible (or perhaps stop buying GW) but so few of them are worth buying multiples of, the Imperial Guard is probably the best one but even then you end up with loads of commisars

Honestly I think IG is one of the lower value ones. GSC, Tau, old admech, new admech as well honestly, all get you pretty significant savings over the individual kits. the IG one if you ignore the commissar gets you like a free 1/3 of a HWT and six bucks off a leman russ.

That has more to do with IG having less inflated prices than everyone (right now, price change pending of course) than everyone else having better value. The Tau one is like 95 for the SC set, 75$ for one of the kits in the SC set lol.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/28/new-rules-for-imperial-knights/

Imperial Knights are next

the_scotsman wrote:

Honestly I think IG is one of the lower value ones. GSC, Tau, old admech, new admech as well honestly, all get you pretty significant savings over the individual kits. the IG one if you ignore the commissar gets you like a free 1/3 of a HWT and six bucks off a leman russ.

That has more to do with IG having less inflated prices than everyone (right now, price change pending of course) than everyone else having better value. The Tau one is like 95 for the SC set, 75$ for one of the kits in the SC set lol.

The Guard one is the only way, currently, to get heavy weapon options for a Guard Infantry or Veteran Squad 'baked in' with the troops themselves.
Remember that there used to be a Heavy Weapons Team box for $15(though it initially dropped at $10 or so) that was a single HWT and then the Heavy Weapon Squad box at $40(which started off at $30).
Crisis Suits were stupidly priced too. Even at $95 the Tau SC is basically the only way I'd go to get Fire Warriors or Crisis Suits. I just dump the Ethereal into a drawer for a painting project or potential conversions down the road.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spreelock wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/28/new-rules-for-imperial-knights/

Imperial Knights are next

Fingers crossed, "6 or more" isn't what we're considering Hordes in the new edition.

yeah that would be pretty punishing- minimum Rubrics here we come if that's the case

It would be punishing for basically every army except those with Combat Squad.

 Spreelock wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/28/new-rules-for-imperial-knights/

Imperial Knights are next

And if GW is anything like consistent with their spoilers we can now be certain that Daemons are getting gak for useful rules.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Fingers crossed, "6 or more" isn't what we're considering Hordes in the new edition.

I'm pretty sure 6 or more is the 9th edition 'horde' designation.

I just didn't know what it did. If all it means is variable damage weapons do full damage without a roll, that's not the worst thing on Earth.

 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Honestly I think IG is one of the lower value ones. GSC, Tau, old admech, new admech as well honestly, all get you pretty significant savings over the individual kits. the IG one if you ignore the commissar gets you like a free 1/3 of a HWT and six bucks off a leman russ.

That has more to do with IG having less inflated prices than everyone (right now, price change pending of course) than everyone else having better value. The Tau one is like 95 for the SC set, 75$ for one of the kits in the SC set lol.

The Guard one is the only way, currently, to get heavy weapon options for a Guard Infantry or Veteran Squad 'baked in' with the troops themselves.
Remember that there used to be a Heavy Weapons Team box for $15(though it initially dropped at $10 or so) that was a single HWT and then the Heavy Weapon Squad box at $40(which started off at $30).
Crisis Suits were stupidly priced too. Even at $95 the Tau SC is basically the only way I'd go to get Fire Warriors or Crisis Suits. I just dump the Ethereal into a drawer for a painting project or potential conversions down the road.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spreelock wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/28/new-rules-for-imperial-knights/

Imperial Knights are next

Fingers crossed, "6 or more" isn't what we're considering Hordes in the new edition.

Could just be 6+ models to match up with the guns firing 6 shots.

Octovol wrote:
All these deep strike strategms seem oddly pointless when they've already said that 9th will give you the option to hold anything in reserve for cp. What's the point of having any of these specific strategms if these books were written with 9th in mind?

Reserves having to come in from a table edge is significantly less flexible than a straight Deep Strike. That might not sound like much but it can be huge in-game.

I would bet it's not as this is a strateguns to turn a 2d3 weapon into a 6 shot weapon, they heavily implied that blast weapons would just have an inate ability against hordes. This is probably going to keep gravis and cent squads honest at 5 models but probably very unlikely to really be played.

Dunno dude.

Seems useful for obliterating a unit of anything Primaris? And for one 1 CP, when it is useful seems kinda no-brained?

The Harlequin Death Jester pivotal role harvester of Torment also has the rule of exploding hits vs a unit with 6 or more models so the 6+ is certainly a thing in new 40k.
Perhaps it's tiered. 1-5 is your usual shots, 6-10 has these special rules scattered, 11+ is horde? Seems overly complicated, so unlikely.
Only GW could think that 6+ models is a horde, yikes.

 Spreelock wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/28/new-rules-for-imperial-knights/

Imperial Knights are next

Obviously saving best until last then!

And how about that gatler getting auto hits within 8"? Ouch.

Although, looking ahead.....wraithknight suncannon vs 6+ models now? Maybe getting maxed shots.

6+ makes perfect sense. A choice is often between 5 or 10 man unit (9 in case of heavy weapon infantry squad.) Units larger than ten are relatively rare, so having a rule that only affects them but not IG infantry squads would seem unnecessary. But it cannot be ten because then people would just use nine person squads. So this is actually reasonable.

 bullyboy wrote:
And how about that gatler getting auto hits within 8"? Ouch.

Although, looking ahead.....wraithknight suncannon vs 6+ models now? Maybe getting maxed shots.

That's only one configuration that currently doesn't make most lists as its 1 shooting and 1 CC weapon.
Kicker for that strategum is that also means the attached heavy flamer is also in range thoughs without 9th edition CP I doubt it's worthwhile.

Ice_can wrote:
I would bet it's not as this is a strateguns to turn a 2d3 weapon into a 6 shot weapon, they heavily implied that blast weapons would just have an inate ability against hordes. This is probably going to keep gravis and cent squads honest at 5 models but probably very unlikely to really be played.

If you need to chew through some intercessors you might throw it on. Or Necron destroyers. Stuff like that. It's a decent toolbox strat, I like it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno dude.

Seems useful for obliterating a unit of anything Primaris? And for one 1 CP, when it is useful seems kinda no-brained?

Iron hand infantry oh yeah besides MSU spam is certainly in for some pain, unfortunately non iron hanfs Gravis armour the best primaris to target with those max at 6 models. I expect to se a lot og 5 gravis or 5 centurion units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
I would bet it's not as this is a strateguns to turn a 2d3 weapon into a 6 shot weapon, they heavily implied that blast weapons would just have an inate ability against hordes. This is probably going to keep gravis and cent squads honest at 5 models but probably very unlikely to really be played.

If you need to chew through some intercessors you might throw it on. Or Necron destroyers. Stuff like that. It's a decent toolbox strat, I like it.

Like it and it certainly makes playing a helverine not feel like a worse moriax but probably need to book in full to see what's going to be best.

 Crimson wrote:
6+ makes perfect sense. A choice is often between 5 or 10 man unit (9 in case of heavy weapon infantry squad.) Units larger than ten are relatively rare, so having a rule that only affects them but not IG infantry squads would seem unnecessary. But it cannot be ten because then people would just use nine person squads. So this is actually reasonable.

Really ? Units larger than ten are relatively rare ? AM, Aeldari, BA, Drukhari, CSM, Daemons, DG, GSC, Necrons, Orks, SW, Tau, Tsons, Tyranids have more than 10 model units. Doesnt sound rare to me, more like the opposite.

oof.

"Hey GW the game feels REALLY fething lethal right about now"

"We gotchu fam we gotchu OK how bout this: D6 shot weapons vs units with 6+ models get 6 shots. How's that? better?"

Ice_can wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno dude.

Seems useful for obliterating a unit of anything Primaris? And for one 1 CP, when it is useful seems kinda no-brained?

Iron hand infantry oh yeah besides MSU spam is certainly in for some pain, unfortunately non iron hanfs Gravis armour the best primaris to target with those max at 6 models. I expect to se a lot og 5 gravis or 5 centurion units.

You say that like any Marine player plays anything over MSU ever.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It would be punishing for basically every army except those with Combat Squad.

Yeah, IG needing to remove extra 5 points of models thanks to this stratagem would be pretty punishing. Oh wait

This stratagem is terribad at fighting any actual hordes (so, chaff units of like 10+ armies). What it is good for is hunting elite infantry or cavalry, basically everything where these extra wounds mean big potential point gain, justifying the CP spent. I'd even say no one will even use it for medium, never mind light infantry except for clutch plays unless CPs are really plentiful in next edition...

 Huron black heart wrote:
This is sadly the case with most of the start collecting sets, with GW's horrendous pricing you really need to try and get the value sets where possible (or perhaps stop buying GW) but so few of them are worth buying multiples of, the Imperial Guard is probably the best one but even then you end up with loads of commisars

There are people who don't mass convert these 'commissars' with spare IG bits to make officers, something you need tons of if you're playing IG?

 Asmodai wrote:

Could just be 6+ models to match up with the guns firing 6 shots.

Maybe. 6+ is just such a weirdly arbitrary number for 'Hordes' when we have a few armies that start with/cap out 10 model squads.

Ice_can wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
And how about that gatler getting auto hits within 8"? Ouch.

Although, looking ahead.....wraithknight suncannon vs 6+ models now? Maybe getting maxed shots.

That's only one configuration that currently doesn't make most lists as its 1 shooting and 1 CC weapon.
Kicker for that strategum is that also means the attached heavy flamer is also in range thoughs without 9th edition CP I doubt it's worthwhile.

ah, missed the bit that made it specifically Knight Warden instead of Avenger cannon in general.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Newman wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno dude.

Seems useful for obliterating a unit of anything Primaris? And for one 1 CP, when it is useful seems kinda no-brained?

Iron hand infantry oh yeah besides MSU spam is certainly in for some pain, unfortunately non iron hanfs Gravis armour the best primaris to target with those max at 6 models. I expect to se a lot og 5 gravis or 5 centurion units.

You say that like any Marine player plays anything over MSU ever.

where have you been post Codex SM 2.0? It's not all MSU...at all

 Brometheus wrote:
yeah that would be pretty punishing- minimum Rubrics here we come if that's the case

Well this is stratagem that a) can be used for 1 unit in army per phase b) costs CP. Those are EXPECTED to be better than common ability on every blast weapon. Simply giving the blast rule to helverin with stratagem would be weaker.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
oof.

"Hey GW the game feels REALLY fething lethal right about now"

"We gotchu fam we gotchu OK how bout this: D6 shot weapons vs units with 6+ models get 6 shots. How's that? better?"

2d3 shot weapon actually. It's 50% boost for one helverin in the army for CP.

It’s not so much a 50% boost as absolutely guaranteed level of firepower - and one the enemy knows you can wheek out from under your kilt at any given own shooting phase.

Sure, some forces have Stratagem cancelling options, such as Dark Eldar. But those also cost CP (I’m pretty sure? No dog piling if I’m wrong!) but for 1CP? It’s a helluva magnet for such abilities.