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The echochamber cult idea is really a great way to describe it. I've noticed that depending on your preexisting notion of the idea, you tend to find evidence that backs up that idea- this is really well illustrated with the coronavirus.

Whether schools are safe to open depends on how you view the progress of the virus. Those that already think it is unsafe rely on infection numbers and comparisons to countries that have it under control. Those that do not point to low fatality rates of children and the ineffable harm of not being in school.

But whichever side you fall on, you can find scientific studies to back up portions of your argument, because our information is incomplete and our understanding of the virus and its impacts is altering rapidly. So for the most part people reinforce their own ideas, and don't change opinions. Echochambers indeed.

The comparison between conspiracy theories/theorists and religious cults goes deeper than that, too. Very often there's a "we few in the know" vs the outside narrative at play, and in the case of people like Alex Jones a charismatic figure head who leads the righteous few in their just crusade against the oppressive forces of the unbelievers.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
The echochamber cult idea is really a great way to describe it. I've noticed that depending on your preexisting notion of the idea, you tend to find evidence that backs up that idea- this is really well illustrated with the coronavirus.

I saw an article very recently from someone who was at FB in the "very early" days, and was one of its original programmers. He was talking about one of the greatest failings, as he saw it, with Facebook that they didn't realize until it was too late. And that problem is the issue of trust in your friends.

See, we have a natural trust of our friends. Does this outfit look good?? Ask a friend. I need an awesome restaurant to try out on this date. . . Ask a friend. You get the idea. . . However, the issue is that when it came to things like Facebook, our friends, some of whom were already down the CT rabbit hole before Facebook came along, well, they posted their anti-vax and bigfoot and other conspiracy theorist stuff, and "we" trusted it, because it comes from a friend.

This idea that this programmer realized is a problem is that because we rely on and trust a friend's judgement so much, it allowed the proliferation of false news stories, conspiracy theories and other things which a rational person can see has been part of the major problem of "how we got where we are today" . . . and thats regarding the P word, life, religion, pandemics. . . everything.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Conspiracy Theories have become much more popular with the rise of "Pop Entertainment". I say this like it is fact, but it is just my hypothesis.

I mean, I think it's a pretty good one?

I'm not sure conspiracy theories as we know them can exist within modern media.

As in are impossible to exist at all?

The conspiracy, or the theory about the conspiracy?

I mean most conspiracies, especially the typicall ones, aka shadow government etc, are just too obvious.

But what if that's just what they want you to think?

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I saw an article very recently from someone who was at FB in the "very early" days, and was one of its original programmers. He was talking about one of the greatest failings, as he saw it, with Facebook that they didn't realize until it was too late. And that problem is the issue of trust in your friends.

See, we have a natural trust of our friends. Does this outfit look good?? Ask a friend. I need an awesome restaurant to try out on this date. . . Ask a friend. You get the idea. . . However, the issue is that when it came to things like Facebook, our friends, some of whom were already down the CT rabbit hole before Facebook came along, well, they posted their anti-vax and bigfoot and other conspiracy theorist stuff, and "we" trusted it, because it comes from a friend.

This idea that this programmer realized is a problem is that because we rely on and trust a friend's judgement so much, it allowed the proliferation of false news stories, conspiracy theories and other things which a rational person can see has been part of the major problem of "how we got where we are today" . . . and thats regarding the P word, life, religion, pandemics. . . everything.

Indeed, which is why notional "echo chambers" aren't really the problem they tend to be touted as. People hear all sorts of contradictory stuff all the time, they just have "reasons" to mis/distrust it, or push some "alternative" view.

What you are talking about is "information cascades." Which I agree about, to me, those a much bigger problem. You can find more information in my much earlier post in this thread about that and how it relates to a sort of "crippled epistemology."

Bran Dawri wrote:
The comparison between conspiracy theories/theorists and religious cults goes deeper than that, too. Very often there's a "we few in the know" vs the outside narrative at play, and in the case of people like Alex Jones a charismatic figure head who leads the righteous few in their just crusade against the oppressive forces of the unbelievers.

It comes back to people who want to believe they're important enough for something or someone out there to be against them, rather than accept that they're irrelevant to the universe.
And various figures rather successfully prey on that desire.

Which is pretty easy, when it comes down to it. The Fox Mulders of the world wave that 'I want to believe' poster like a flag. You might as well go hunt bears by smearing yourself in salmon paste and honey.

although that facebook issue has an upside of shining a light on the some of the previously well hidden dingbat forkwittery of some people, but thats why the unfollow button is a thing

 Dysartes wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Conspiracy Theories have become much more popular with the rise of "Pop Entertainment". I say this like it is fact, but it is just my hypothesis.

I mean, I think it's a pretty good one?

I'm not sure conspiracy theories as we know them can exist within modern media.

As in are impossible to exist at all?

The conspiracy, or the theory about the conspiracy?

I mean most conspiracies, especially the typicall ones, aka shadow government etc, are just too obvious.

But what if that's just what they want you to think?

Who is they?
I'll let you in on a secret at the End of the Day most of the power of a state is soft power, willing compliance , with what said state embodies and even if it goes out of the Way such a state or government Relies upon in the End monopoly of force , in the case of my Country how many Bajonett for vs against you.
Even when cold war and aftermath of the spiritual defense of the Country were at it's height secret organisations or attempts to coup d'étate aleigning and having Support of the official government get found out .
There is literally no Way in hell a world government exists without it having produced a papertrail and witness Trail to Make any buerocratic states administration blush and Seem lazy.
Or Slip UPS of massive scale

OK. Hold on to your rationality and decorum, because I’m bringing up QAnon.

I’m going to be very, very careful here. It’s an inherently political subject after all. But rather than their claims and theories etc? Let’s look at the very barest of bones.

It all stems from an an entirely anonymous source, who claims, without evidence, that they’re deeply embedded in Government.

Now.....their posts? Actually kinda cryptic. Rather than claims, it’s a series of breadcrumbs and trigger points. Their readers then do the rest.

It’s basically a “how to” of starting conspiracy theories. It can be taken as entirely nonsensical. It can be taken as a joke. It can also be taken as absolute truth. A loose amalgam of posts in which those disposed to CT thought patterns can have a field day.

“Q” doesn’t actually create the theory. Rather they (and it could plural they) simply act as an agent of chaos. Creating a quagmire of utter, utter nonsense - quite possibly for their own amusement. The source may also be somewhat more nefarious in intent. For the sake of my own sanity, I trust it’s the former.

Remember the core rule of this thread. We are discussing the theory - not the theorist. And by gum are we skirting the tolerances of the mods on this one. So please do behave, and as ever, if you find things getting a bit heated, give yourself a time out. We’re 22 pages in, and we’ve done pretty well. Let’s not break our streak!

It does seem like skillful trolling, doesn't it?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It does seem like skillful trolling, doesn't it?

probably more an experiment,

give the nutjobs some criptic thingies, and let's see what the nutjobs produce.

That said, it is not even clear if there are multiple people behind it or one as claimed.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It does seem like skillful trolling, doesn't it?

probably more an experiment,

give the nutjobs some criptic thingies, and let's see what the nutjobs produce.

That said, it is not even clear if there are multiple people behind it or one as claimed.

I believe it has almost certainly been co-opted by the intelligence apparatus of nations seeking to destabilise the US as one part of an attack on the populaces faith in their government.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It does seem like skillful trolling, doesn't it?

probably more an experiment,

give the nutjobs some criptic thingies, and let's see what the nutjobs produce.

That said, it is not even clear if there are multiple people behind it or one as claimed.

I believe it has almost certainly been co-opted by the intelligence apparatus of nations seeking to destabilise the US as one part of an attack on the populaces faith in their government.

Russia and China with their Double pronged strategy would certainly be candidates...
Iran aswell but i feel more that they would Target Israel or preferebly the saudis directly.

Tbf tho the effectiveness of such Strategies Seem to relly in exploitable flaws in the Target moreso than in many other Strategies.

To be honest, I question where there’s a nefarious purpose behind it.

Simply, it’s reach isn’t terribly far, and it’s adherents tend to have been a bit bonkers before they discovered it.

That rather begs the question of “what does an external agency have to gain”, other than a bit of a laugh at others expense? Which again, seems to be the core flaw with many conspiracy theories.

Doubly so when they boil down to “X is doing Y to achieve Z”. You’ll notice I’m deliberately avoiding quoting any particular Q theory, which makes posting a wee bit tricky. It’s the same with ‘vaccines will have microchips in them to track you” type drivel. Nobody is that important. Nobody in power overly cares what their general populace are up to day to day. And private individuals will have even less reason to actually do that.

And if they did? Hope you’re not posting on Facebook, Dakka, Youtube, The Internet In General, TikTok, Instagram etc. Because they all track activity. So there’s no real need to implant a secret microchip by stealth, is there?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
To be honest, I question where there’s a nefarious purpose behind it.

Simply, it’s reach isn’t terribly far, and it’s adherents tend to have been a bit bonkers before they discovered it.

That rather begs the question of “what does an external agency have to gain”, other than a bit of a laugh at others expense? Which again, seems to be the core flaw with many conspiracy theories.

considering there was an interview with a police chief with Q-anon mug, it's influence is probably broader then many people think, also destabilising the USA, is in many ways destabilising the whole western hemissphere.
The EU as off now, even if it would somehow finalize it's reforms in a stabilizing manner (something i think is not happening mostly because of ideological setup predisposing any such multinational / cultural structure just isn't there ) , not be prepared for a geopolitical crisis in which it'd need to act decisively

Russia allready can do more or less what it wants in eastern europe, and it is willing to exploit that.
Meanwhile china is attempting to export it's branch of totalitarianism further into SEA and the middle east.
Not to mention that with the UK deciding to go away from coordination out of the wish for sovereignity will not strengthen the position of the rest of the states.

in many way, europe is asleep and the watchmen suffers from poisioning called chaos and polarisation.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
To be honest, I question where there’s a nefarious purpose behind it.

Simply, it’s reach isn’t terribly far, and it’s adherents tend to have been a bit bonkers before they discovered it.

That rather begs the question of “what does an external agency have to gain”, other than a bit of a laugh at others expense? Which again, seems to be the core flaw with many conspiracy theories.

Doubly so when they boil down to “X is doing Y to achieve Z”. You’ll notice I’m deliberately avoiding quoting any particular Q theory, which makes posting a wee bit tricky. It’s the same with ‘vaccines will have microchips in them to track you” type drivel. Nobody is that important. Nobody in power overly cares what their general populace are up to day to day. And private individuals will have even less reason to actually do that.

And if they did? Hope you’re not posting on Facebook, Dakka, Youtube, The Internet In General, TikTok, Instagram etc. Because they all track activity. So there’s no real need to implant a secret microchip by stealth, is there?

Indeed some of it reminds me of those Mitchell and Webb sketchs regarding the Moon landing and Diana ( most likely on yt)

That said I like to think that The Donald incident caused some serious overtime amongst hostile intelligence services trying to create and backfill a vast conspiracy rather than a minor side project to nudge polls a few points for shirts and giggles

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
To be honest, I question where there’s a nefarious purpose behind it.

Simply, it’s reach isn’t terribly far, and it’s adherents tend to have been a bit bonkers before they discovered it.

That rather begs the question of “what does an external agency have to gain”, other than a bit of a laugh at others expense? Which again, seems to be the core flaw with many conspiracy theories.

Many of the QAnon conspiracy theories have been later peddled by Trump and Fox News. The conspiracy theorists on 4/8chan serve as part of a filter for it. They will buy anything but when they share it with their friends and associates outside their conspiracy bubble, those people discard the wildest parts and spread the rest. This repeats until you have a conspiracy theory that many people are willing to believe and by then it has worked its way into the right-wing propaganda machine.

As well as the aforementioned police chief with the mug.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
To be honest, I question where there’s a nefarious purpose behind it.

Simply, it’s reach isn’t terribly far, and it’s adherents tend to have been a bit bonkers before they discovered it.

That rather begs the question of “what does an external agency have to gain”, other than a bit of a laugh at others expense? Which again, seems to be the core flaw with many conspiracy theories.

Many of the QAnon conspiracy theories have been later peddled by Trump and Fox News. The conspiracy theorists on 4/8chan serve as part of a filter for it. They will buy anything but when they share it with their friends and associates outside their conspiracy bubble, those people discard the wildest parts and spread the rest. This repeats until you have a conspiracy theory that many people are willing to believe and by then it has worked its way into the right-wing propaganda machine.

As well as the aforementioned police chief with the mug.

Doesn't matter even, whilest Q-Anon is more a right wing phenomena, let's not foget that in the far left you have the same ammount of nonsense and destabilisation hapening, just look at corbin and who got blamed for the lost election...

Truth is, conspiracy theories make for a good and convenient scapegoat for ones own fault, regardless where they come from, and humans are first and foremost individuals, and putting ones own head out of the responsibility is pretty commonplace behaviour.

Exploit that, and you can easily sow chaos and confusion, in some cases violence without much investment. clearing room for your own actions.

I will put this here as a 'conspiracy theory' as it will be taken as one and loudly mocked by some. I do not care about that as the warning should be given, with respect to forum rules I will not speak directly on the subject or post links but will urge channel members to search the following keywords on YouTube and other places.
RAPTURE
TRIBULATION
I heeded the warning about a 'coming plague', which came to pass, and was prepared for that, and the same watchmen warned of other events that have happened.
The credibility is there on the grounds that these people foretold right, and many have received the same dreams.

Currently there is a crescendo of warnings about sudden destruction coming, in particular to the United States. Some will be false, you need to use discernment, however many from different people line up with each other.
The most urgent warnings are:

1. Stock up and prepare NOW because something big and bad is going to happen in September, you have a lull until then to prepare.
2. There will be massive unrest in November leading to fighting in the streets and much burning.
3. There are earthquake/tsunami warnings on both coasts.
4. There will be a war.

If these do not happen remember this and mock me if you like, but please leave this post alone so that those who want to inspect the warnings for themselves and see for themselves.
Here is a helpful start keyword.
DANA COVERSTONE

 Orlanth wrote:

RAPTURE
TRIBULATION

snipped down for size, but really only using for reference.


I grew up in exactly this kind of religious environment. . . "careful" reading of text passages, twisted meanings, special translations, etc. all go hand in hand with this doom and gloom, or fire and brimstone rhetoric. The denominations that thrive on end times "logic" and end times teachings rely heavily on the use of fear to keep their people "in line", spoon feed them just enough hope they keep coming back, but keep them fearful of what happens next.

The end times have been upon us since humanity invented the idea of end times.

Though I will say the whole four horsemen deal does describe the fall of Rome rather nicely.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

RAPTURE
TRIBULATION

snipped down for size, but really only using for reference.
I grew up in exactly this kind of religious environment. . . "careful" reading of text passages, twisted meanings, special translations, etc. all go hand in hand with this doom and gloom, or fire and brimstone rhetoric. The denominations that thrive on end times "logic" and end times teachings rely heavily on the use of fear to keep their people "in line", spoon feed them just enough hope they keep coming back, but keep them fearful of what happens next.

First don't snip down for size, especially if you think you know the subject matter, as it indicates you aren't looking beyond the starting information, which intentionally limited. The keywords are there to begin a search, and will lead to the relevant content which would require whole pages to address. Now I have been known for very long posts in the past when the subject matter was permitted, but it is not now, so sadly I cannot give a more proper explanation, but keep in mind that sticking to an initial assumption on a keyword for further search is illogical, as a keyword does not of itself give enough information to come to a conclusion.

Secondly you have a very skewed idea of motive, which is why following the keywords and seeing for yourself is better than raising walls of cynicism.
If this was your experience of very controlling religious leaders in your youth then I am sorry for you, however it was not necessarily others experience or a true indicator of what is actually happening.
A good example as to why your mentality is skewed if you see a person stumbling onto a road and shouted a warning to people nearby the action could be taken as giving them a heads up to do something about it. It would literally be true that you are also instilling fear in them, but that would be an overly cynical interpretation. Similar actions can be given wildly different interpretations based on past experiences or just jaded cynicism, please do not assume malice in my motive. I have no hold on you, nor am I of any obligation to you.

Third you said you grew up in this sort of environment, indicating this was your experience in the past. That was then, this is now. Things were not like this ten years ago, it was just regular life then, five years ago it was discernable that a change was coming and now things are actively happening that make sense on a global prophetic timeline. Yes those decades ago who said 'the end is nigh so prepare now' could be seen as overly melodramatic, even if the comments held some future truth. However now is very different, the signs, and there are many, are showing the end actually is nigh. Look at it this way, if you hypothetically lived long enough the crazies with the placards will eventually be right. It just happens we now live in that time. In respect to forum rules I will not say why here, but the keywords will lead to a lot of information many of those sources are level headed and corroborate each other and warn us that the End Times are now upon us with explanation as to how and why.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The end times have been upon us since humanity invented the idea of end times.

Though I will say the whole four horsemen deal does describe the fall of Rome rather nicely.

This is true and I am mindful of it.
It was only late 2018 that I had enough evidence to draw a conclusion that we were truly approaching the End Times, and only a year later before I started properly watching for it as imminent, and I am actually quite cautious when it comes to eschatology. I honestly think I will be gone by September 2021, but that is just my guess. Many don't think we will be here for Christmas and I cannot fault their reasoning. It could happen anytime.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The end times have been upon us since humanity invented the idea of end times.

Though I will say the whole four horsemen deal does describe the fall of Rome rather nicely.

Which one are you talking about?

Look orlanth not to be mean, but we had all that, i will refer again to the Start and the list of pandemics.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The end times have been upon us since humanity invented the idea of end times.

Though I will say the whole four horsemen deal does describe the fall of Rome rather nicely.

Which one are you talking about?

Look orlanth not to be mean, but we had all that, i will refer again to the Start and the list of pandemics.

No offence taken. But this goes way beyond lists of pandemics. A lot of the signs are very specific, even to name and time, given far enough back in the past that they could not have been manufactured for the current time. Take a look for yourself.
But still I heeded the warning to prepare for pandemic back in 2019, and prepared (or more like began to adapt my existing preparations). So it looks like I wasn't wasting my time.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

RAPTURE
TRIBULATION

snipped down for size, but really only using for reference.


I grew up in exactly this kind of religious environment. . . "careful" reading of text passages, twisted meanings, special translations, etc. all go hand in hand with this doom and gloom, or fire and brimstone rhetoric. The denominations that thrive on end times "logic" and end times teachings rely heavily on the use of fear to keep their people "in line", spoon feed them just enough hope they keep coming back, but keep them fearful of what happens next.

I think my search-fu is on the blink, all i got from those terms was links to spankatrix videos and that DS9 / TOS episode

For a second I misread that as spankatrix DS9/TOS videos and got really excited.

Wasn't the guy who shot up a pizza parlor acting on Q-anon conspiracy theories? Seems like they're causing chaos already.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, I looked up both those words and only found a bunch of end times religious videos. I am disappoint.

@ Bob, isnt that covered by Mirror-verse Kira ?

And whilst culty doom mongering is an unavoidable side effect of The Event im slightly surprised we havent had a mass ascension or two

 Orlanth wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The end times have been upon us since humanity invented the idea of end times.

Though I will say the whole four horsemen deal does describe the fall of Rome rather nicely.

Which one are you talking about?

Look orlanth not to be mean, but we had all that, i will refer again to the Start and the list of pandemics.

No offence taken. But this goes way beyond lists of pandemics. A lot of the signs are very specific, even to name and time, given far enough back in the past that they could not have been manufactured for the current time. Take a look for yourself.
But still I heeded the warning to prepare for pandemic back in 2019, and prepared (or more like began to adapt my existing preparations). So it looks like I wasn't wasting my time.

the end times?

You know, more wars and such, meanwhile less people die of war every year.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Well, I looked up both those words and only found a bunch of end times religious videos. I am disappoint.

That's exactly what Orlanth is talking about. He's full on into end of the world christian prophecy.

What even is Qanon?
I never was able to figure out.
Can someone explain it to me please?