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2020/04/30 21:36:31
Subject: [1500] - AdMech+Knights - Titan Guard with Engine War changes
I'm getting back into the hobby and putting together a skitarii titanguard list based on the novel Titanicus. I'm planning out my purchases (I swear to God, I'm only buying new boxes after I finish painting this time), and I've arrived at this list. I'm planning on getting a couple Start Collecting and Armiger boxes, the Infiltrators and Tech-priests I'm converting with bits I have. I want to get your feedback on whether the list is good, or whether I should change my plans. I'm particularly interested in my Armiger setup: should I go quad Warglaive to maximize the House bonus? I think Warglavies are cool, but are they really bad and I should bite the bullet for quad Helverin?
The general strategy I envision is advancing the Vanguard, Manipulus, and Dominus to take advantage of the Manipulus' speed bonus and support the Warglaives. I'd use the Rangers as back-fielder objective holders and take potshots at tanks and characters. The Dunecrawlers and Helverin patrol the edges and focus fire things down. The Enginseers would be spread out across the board near the vehicles, I figure if they can repair 3 or 4 wounds they make back their points. Lastly, the Infiltrators can Wrath of Mars the enemy's backfield out of existence.
I think I'd generally take the Monitor Marvelous Warlord Trait. Since I have so many CPs, I figure I can spend about 4 or 5 CPs a turn (plus my opponent's Stratagems) and reasonably expect a CP back per Battle Turn. That's part of the reason for the weird Supreme Command Detachment: Graia has the best relic if I'm doubling down on CPs. Graia also gives me access to their anti-psyker Stratagem, so with the Enginseers spread out I have some response to psykers across the board.
One of my regular opponents plays Admech with a couple of Warglaives allied in to cover his relative lack of melee prowress, as a Marine player those things make all my Dreadnaughts cry in their beer.
That's encouraging to hear. I figure if you're going to have a robot with arms, it should use them. Do you think 4 Warglaives would be better than a 2/2 split?
As a follow-up, this was the progression I was considering, starting with a box of Armigers:
Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment, House Krast
Armiger Warglaive, Stubber, 147 [Free Blade: Sworn to Quest, Exiled in Shame, Obsessed with Vengeance]
Armiger Warglaive, Stubber, 147
294
Do you guys think that the Enginseers are a good idea? My thinking is that I'd take the Manipulus and Dominus anyway (and let me know if that's flawed and I shouldn't bother taking both). The fact that I'm taking exactly 3 Enginseers lets me shuffle the detachments and get +2CP and the Graia Strategem. I don't have any game experience to know if that's actually a good deal. Are Enginseers worth their points for repairing? Is the Graia Strategem actually bad? Is the package worth 90 points?
I am a big fan of at l;east one questoris knight in a pack of knights -- for example the gallant (the cheapest option) with landstrider (cause you get a free warlord trait per detachment) and it also qualifies the detachment to earn cp. You can further give the gallant either 2+ armor .. or the ability to use the invuln shield in melee combat. Remember your knights shields don't by default work in melee, which is a real liability for your four t7 armigers.
With house raven, landstrider is worth an extra 4 inches per knight moving forward the first turn, making them much more likely to get into combat, especially with "full tilt".
You could turn graea's command group into a patrol, dropping the techpriest dominus, and viola, you have enough points (=110 more minus the 35 for 5 skitarii) to run the questoris, 2 armigers (your choice) and an engenseer + skitarii patrol.
I believe techpriest domin will give rerolls only to its own subfaction, I could be wrong, but I think that is the case, so you might do better with 3 engenseers in the command detachment if you choose to keep it as such, allowing more buffers for your main admech bunch.
Also, knight lances have some odd rules about earning cp, they apparently don't earn any unless you have a titanic knight in the lance, but if you do, it gets a free CHARACTER keyword. This would give it some interesing heroic intervention options that can make the enemy very carefully terrified of being near you in their own charge phase.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/01 08:20:56
You make really good points. I'd forgotten that Knights need a Questoris class to get the CP bonus, and I'd somehow overlooked that the Tech-priest Dominus only affects its own Forgeworld. I'm honestly only interested in the Mars Forgeworld to give Wrath of Mars to the Infiltrators, because I'm doing a cool conversion for them and I want them to be powerful. I think Graia and Metallica are better Forgeworlds for the bulk of my infantry.
Working with the fact that I'm trying to minimize purchases, I've rearrange the list to this. I'm getting one box of Armigers and one Start Collecting to get to 1000pts. Then I was planning on one more of each ($170) to get 1500pts. Going one Knight and one box of Skitarii (197$) isn't that much more, and I guess need the Knight for the army to work. Anyway, that explains not taking a second Dunecrawler.
The question then is, who's my Warlord, and what's my Relic? If I make the Knight the Warlord for Landstrider, I can't take +1 CP on the Dominus. I think Monitor Marvelous is really neat, and I like the option of giving my infantry Emotionless Clarity. I guess I could take the +1CP Relic and immediately spend it to give the Paladin Landstrider.
DarkHound wrote: That's encouraging to hear. I figure if you're going to have a robot with arms, it should use them. Do you think 4 Warglaives would be better than a 2/2 split?
I couldn't say, but the ones I play against are always twins at 1000 and he uses the Warglaives a lot more than the Helverins.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/01 17:43:38
I've decided to double down and (later, in like year when everything's painted) get a second Start Collecting and then a Knight Preceptor. I'm pretty unimpressed with Dominus on paper, and Dukeofstuff rightfully suggested Daedalosus to save points. After giving up the Dominus (the only model that can take the +1CP relic), it's clear the Knight is more impactful as a Warlord. With the more point efficient Knight Preceptor, I only drop 1 Infiltrator to fit in the second Dunecrawler.
However, eventually, I could conceivably get a third Start Collecting box and fit in a third Dunecrawler, turning the Patrol Detachment into a Spearhead for +1 CP. That would involve cutting literally every option off every other choice and losing 1 Infiltrator.
Spearhead Detachment, Forge World Mars Tech-Priest Enginseer, 30 8 Infiltrators, Flechette, Goad, 120 Onager Dunecrawler, Neutron Laser, Smoke 105 Onager Dunecrawler, Icarus Array, Smoke 100 (or some other choice) Onager Dunecrawler, Icarus Array, Smoke 100 460
I think this is as trim and as 'ard as I can make the list. The weakest part of the army is close combat, so it might be worth swapping the Preceptor for a Gallant (and thus swap House Raven for Krast).
Looking back at the opening post, even allowing my rules mistakes, this latest version would wipe the floor with that list. So thank you guys for helping me tinker with this.
Any thoughts on these versions? Any weaknesses?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/02 02:41:03
I’d consider reducing one of the skitarii squads to free up points to upgrade the Armigers stubbers to meltaguns and maybe to add a carapace weapon to the preceptor.
Also, data tethers instead of smoke launchers on the Dunecrawlers allow for a +2 to hit if you use the Protector Doctrina Imperative stratagem for 1 CP. it allows even the anti-air Dunecrawlers to hit on a 2.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/12 15:27:40
I could go back and forth on some of the details, and there are 10 points to spare. Maybe the Autocannon carapace weapon is better, maybe I should take one Icarus Array on a Dunecrawler.
The only thing I'm worried about is I may not have enough anti-horde capability. The two corrections I could make are taking a Reaper on the Preceptor to spam Chainsweep, and switching the Infiltrators back to Flechette Blasters and Goads. Maybe just one choice or the other is sufficient.
I like this list a lot. Id go one Icarus Array on a Dunecrawler. Ive never run the infiltrators as carbine/powersword but I like the flecheete/goad option myself.
2020/06/01 02:32:31
Subject: Re:[1500] - AdMech+Knights - Titan Guard with Engine War changes
Hey guys, I'm reviving this thread in light of the leaks for Engine War. There's only been leaks for AdMech and Chaos Knights, so there will probably be more things to consider for the Knights later. The impetuous for changes are the new Mars canticle and the custom Forge World rules. After checking the math, I realized Scarifying Weaponry (Radium Weapons get -1 AP) makes Vanguard the most point-efficient anti-infantry in the book. Their only weakness (2 wound MEQ) is remedied by Plasma Vanguard, also our most point-efficient unit against that profile (though I took fewer Plasma to maximize the Dogma benefit). I had already considered souping Mars for Wrath on the Infiltrators, and their new Canticle created more incentive.
The new Warlord traits are super handy. The Magos Manipulus gives 2 dice-pick-the-highest on Advances or exploding 6s, both of which synergize with the Manipulus buffs and Vanguard blob. The Mars Artisan Enginseer gives -1 AP at half range or tanks can fall back and shoot.
The army works by using the Canticles in the correct sequence to capitalize on as many units as possible. The most obvious example is lining up re-roll 1's with the Vanguard getting into range and the Infiltrators coming down. That turn, the Manipulus switches his Magos trait to exploding 6s, Daedalosus marks a target, and the Infiltrators get Wrath. The Mars +1 Strength benefits the Icarus Array more than any other options, and it was already an extremely competitive choice; I'd try to line up the Canticle with the Dunecrawlers reaching half range for -1 AP.
I plan to spend 2 CP on Wrath and 3 on Full Tilt and a charge re-roll. That leaves me about 5 to play with. I shouldn't need to command re-roll anything, which actually leaves a lot of room. I could see myself spending 3 CP for +2 hit on all the Dunecrawlers the turn they get +1 S and -1 AP. With a 32" effective range, that would be a disgusting turn 1 alpha-strike. Otherwise I can ration those 5 points out for Machine Spirit Resurgent, Rotate Ion Shields, double repairs on the Dunecrawlers with the Autocaduceus, and re-using Canticles.
