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I for one am indeed unironically looking forward to it, and am only annoyed at the paywall.


I'm personally hoping for a little more Lex Luthor in it as well.

Steady now...

Yeah, no need to light the Morden signal in here yet!

I’m cautiously optimistic on this one still - not sure why but there it is

 insaniak wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I can't be worse, right?

Oh, it can definitely be worse. The existing movie with all of the more light-hearted moments stripped out in order to be all dark and gritty would be worse. More Superman, particularly more moody and grimdark Superman, would be worse. Over four hours of either of those things would be infinitely worse.

From what's been suggested, a big part of the reshoots were to put in more Superman and Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman was the only part of the movie that was good, to the extent it was good. That Roose Bolton bank robbery scene? Lit.

There was so little Superman I don't know how they could have done less and still have had a cohesive story.

Again, supposedly is a key bit here:
From what's floating around out there? Superman shows up later in the film. Lois is the driver for him to be resurrected rather than Bruce alone. Clark waking up, supposedly, wasn't violent but rather a bit more peaceful. Purportedly, there isn't the whole fight between the League. There were supposed to be more fights between the League and Steppenwulf as well--notably on Paradise Island after Gotham.

Diana's role additionally was purportedly not diminished, but the whole bit with Victor Stone was more Alfred centric rather than Diana centric.

By Snyder's account, we've only seen 25% of HIS film. Whedon wrote and shot a LOT. You could tell that right from the credits he got.

Cyborg was supposed to have a bigger arc with much more character development. Think I read that the actor went to the premiere and wondered WTF happened. They didn't necessarily know what footage from a movie essentially shot twice was going to make the final cut. Surprise! And about that solo film...

Think I read Aquaman had more stuff too. More Superman stuff at the Kent farm. We can definitely expect to see more cameos.

Will it be better? I expect it to be more coherent - being one vision and not a Frankenstein creation - and the extra time will give it room to breathe just like the BvS directors cut did. That's a plus. And I assume he'll lose all the Affleck reshoots where he was clearly (borderline unprofessionally) mailing it in. And hey, no super-stache! That's all good.

Otherwise, we'll see. I'm sure it'll be more serious in tone, and we know some nerds only want sterile quipfests like the worst entries in Marvel's catalog. The story will probably be different, and that could still be worse even if that doesn't seem possible.

It would be worthwhile if Steppenwolf is developed further, otherwise I quite enjoyed Justice League as it was.

 Ouze wrote:

There was so little Superman I don't know how they could have done less and still have had a cohesive story.

I had been running under the assumption that Steppenwulf would steal Clark's body and he would return as Darkseid's general at the end to set up the sequel based on the setup in BVS.

My friends and I really enjoyed this at the cinema.

I'd watch it to see what was changed but if ii just became another attmept at Nolan style movie i'd likely give up during.

I would rather have a Josh Wheedon cut myself

That's what the rumors were - "Evil Superman" in JL1, returns as good Superman in JL2 to help save the day vs. Darkseid and Company.

Do we think we'll get Snyder's 'real' JL1 and it will end on that cliffhanger, or will they try and somehow make the JL1 and JL2 into one move in the Synder Cut?

JL was such hot trash that unless they completely changed .... well everything it won't be much better.

Too much team building crammed into too short of a movie with too many set pieces that made no sense. Far FAR too much "because the script says so" moments.

While they aren't "good" movies I've watched the MCU multiple times, I've watch Nolan's Batman flicks multiple times, I've even watched WW, Aquaman and the trash that is BvS multiple times. I've watched JL1 once and might go back for this just to see if there is any saving the DCEU.

I actually liked the original movie, am interested in seeing the Snyder cut but have low expectations.

The word is HBO Max is trying to decide to cut it into 6 episodes or release it as a 4 hour movie. Either would be fine by me, not looking for perfection.

I'm just hoping this isn't the traditional brutal Zack Snyder movie, maybe he's had some time to learn from what went wrong with the first film. While I did enjoy the movie, it just wasn't a Justice League story.

Hard to explain the narrative elements that were missing, the conflicts just seemed drawn out and sometimes pointless. The flashbacks and dream sequences were a little too dramatic and seemed more resonate than the main conflict. While I could appreciate what was happening, there were time I was questioning if this was actually a linear storyline or a shared delusion of the main characters.

There's a chance to make that better. Looking forward to whatever he comes up with, but not expecting it to be better / worse than the original film.

Guess that depends on what he has to work with?

JL was quite close to the MCU genius if not up to their standard, I know people feel that people can't be emulate them as its not edgy enough or something but will he be able to reach a coherent tone with bits and peices slotted together.

 techsoldaten wrote:
I actually liked the original movie, am interested in seeing the Snyder cut but have low expectations.

The word is HBO Max is trying to decide to cut it into 6 episodes or release it as a 4 hour movie. Either would be fine by me, not looking for perfection.

I'm just hoping this isn't the traditional brutal Zack Snyder movie, maybe he's had some time to learn from what went wrong with the first film. While I did enjoy the movie, it just wasn't a Justice League story.

Hard to explain the narrative elements that were missing, the conflicts just seemed drawn out and sometimes pointless. The flashbacks and dream sequences were a little too dramatic and seemed more resonate than the main conflict. While I could appreciate what was happening, there were time I was questioning if this was actually a linear storyline or a shared delusion of the main characters.

There's a chance to make that better. Looking forward to whatever he comes up with, but not expecting it to be better / worse than the original film.

These are all good points but I wonder if Snyder will in fact 'learn from what went wrong' OR be, for lack of a better term, be "empowered" by the "Snyder Cut Movement", stock to his guns and just release what he was always going to release?

I hope we somehow get the 'whole story' and not half of it - with 4 hours to work with, I think he could (and should?) give us the whole thing, if possible.

 Ouze wrote:
Wonder Woman was the only part of the movie that was good, to the extent it was good. That Roose Bolton bank robbery scene? Lit.

But if she's faster than a speeding bullet, as is that other guy who can watch Flash run past him, what *exactly* does Flash contribute?

 Alpharius wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
I actually liked the original movie, am interested in seeing the Snyder cut but have low expectations.

The word is HBO Max is trying to decide to cut it into 6 episodes or release it as a 4 hour movie. Either would be fine by me, not looking for perfection.

I'm just hoping this isn't the traditional brutal Zack Snyder movie, maybe he's had some time to learn from what went wrong with the first film. While I did enjoy the movie, it just wasn't a Justice League story.

Hard to explain the narrative elements that were missing, the conflicts just seemed drawn out and sometimes pointless. The flashbacks and dream sequences were a little too dramatic and seemed more resonate than the main conflict. While I could appreciate what was happening, there were time I was questioning if this was actually a linear storyline or a shared delusion of the main characters.

There's a chance to make that better. Looking forward to whatever he comes up with, but not expecting it to be better / worse than the original film.

These are all good points but I wonder if Snyder will in fact 'learn from what went wrong' OR be, for lack of a better term, be "empowered" by the "Snyder Cut Movement", stock to his guns and just release what he was always going to release?

I hope we somehow get the 'whole story' and not half of it - with 4 hours to work with, I think he could (and should?) give us the whole thing, if possible.

We will see.

I think everyone in the industry learned a lot from the failure of the original Justice League. DC is a very different company as a result, they collected a lot of information that informed all of their other films.

OTOH, Directors seem to have a lot less influence over films these days, other movies have become group efforts that lack a single coherent vision.

I have no clue what to expect, so I'm trying not to. It's just a different place from where the movie originally started, there's opportunities to make it better or worse.

Kayback wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Wonder Woman was the only part of the movie that was good, to the extent it was good. That Roose Bolton bank robbery scene? Lit.

But if she's faster than a speeding bullet, as is that other guy who can watch Flash run past him, what *exactly* does Flash contribute?

One of my favorite pages:

Kayback wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Wonder Woman was the only part of the movie that was good, to the extent it was good. That Roose Bolton bank robbery scene? Lit.

But if she's faster than a speeding bullet, as is that other guy who can watch Flash run past him, what *exactly* does Flash contribute?

Humanity - a different perspective.

You could say the same about synderverse Batman when you have Aquaman, Superman and Wonder Woman - they even talk about it in the film when flash and co are digging up the dead Kryptonian

or the MCU Spiderman when you have Thor, Iron Man and Vision.

Powers and style is not everything, its about humanity, personalities, heart and soul, having light to make the darkness more impactful - all the things that the Nolan films never had or understood.

Kayback wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Wonder Woman was the only part of the movie that was good, to the extent it was good. That Roose Bolton bank robbery scene? Lit.

But if she's faster than a speeding bullet, as is that other guy who can watch Flash run past him, what *exactly* does Flash contribute?

Comic relief.

 AduroT wrote:

Kayback wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Wonder Woman was the only part of the movie that was good, to the extent it was good. That Roose Bolton bank robbery scene? Lit.

But if she's faster than a speeding bullet, as is that other guy who can watch Flash run past him, what *exactly* does Flash contribute?

Comic relief.

That too.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Powers and style is not everything, its about humanity, personalities, heart and soul, having light to make the darkness more impactful - all the things that the Nolan films never had or understood.

Takes me back.




The Timmverse spoiled me at an early age for any DC screen efforts that came after. Especially with a director who seems to be much better at shooting comic adaptations panel by panel than putting together decent (semi)original stories. At this point the Snyder cut just feels like throwing good money after bad.

 Vermis wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Powers and style is not everything, its about humanity, personalities, heart and soul, having light to make the darkness more impactful - all the things that the Nolan films never had or understood.

Takes me back.




The Timmverse spoiled me at an early age for any DC screen efforts that came after. Especially with a director who seems to be much better at shooting comic adaptations panel by panel than putting together decent (semi)original stories. At this point the Snyder cut just feels like throwing good money after bad.

I really love this scene. I feel the JL movie treated him really poorly. Every time he does something cool or heroic, he either immediately fumbles or someone else promptly upstages him. He really is just there for you to laugh at him.

Put me on the "I hope the Snyder cut is terrible" train.

My feeling (maybe hope? I acknowledge this is petty) is that the 'Whedon Cut' will end up being, "the best thing they could salvage out of the disaster".

In other words, you know, damning it with faint praise.


I did think of one way you could make Barry's 'screwups' in the Whedon Cut better... Every single fall and screwup from him is the result of a phased out Reverse Flash messing with him.

Because he is Just That Petty.






On the bigger note, if you want a grimdark Justice League film. - And wow do I mean grim dark, going straight through fully to harrowing. But, actually, you know, still remembers and cares about what Superheroes are about, I recommend




The 'Endgame' of 7 years and 16 films worth of the DC Animated Movie universe.

Would much rather watch that than the Snyder cut any day.

Oh God the animated DCU. People complained that the DC movies were too dark and the animated crew said Hold my beer. Like I watched all of them, and I overall enjoyed them, but man do I cringe at the over the top violence and gore. Sheer incredible brutality that No One is safe from baring your main characters generally. Generally but not always. And then the last movie says this is the last movie so everyone needs to turn in their plot armor before we film. I’ll be really curious to see if that theme continues going forward or if they’ll get a new tone to them now. I’m hoping for a new tone.

DC’s animated stuff definitely has a better track record.

Except Batman Ninja. That was flat out terrible. Was surprised when the Batmobile didn’t eventually become a Bat Kid’s Trike, then Bat Roller Skates.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
I actually liked the original movie, am interested in seeing the Snyder cut but have low expectations.

The word is HBO Max is trying to decide to cut it into 6 episodes or release it as a 4 hour movie. Either would be fine by me, not looking for perfection.

I'm just hoping this isn't the traditional brutal Zack Snyder movie, maybe he's had some time to learn from what went wrong with the first film. While I did enjoy the movie, it just wasn't a Justice League story.

Hard to explain the narrative elements that were missing, the conflicts just seemed drawn out and sometimes pointless. The flashbacks and dream sequences were a little too dramatic and seemed more resonate than the main conflict. While I could appreciate what was happening, there were time I was questioning if this was actually a linear storyline or a shared delusion of the main characters.

There's a chance to make that better. Looking forward to whatever he comes up with, but not expecting it to be better / worse than the original film.

These are all good points but I wonder if Snyder will in fact 'learn from what went wrong' OR be, for lack of a better term, be "empowered" by the "Snyder Cut Movement", stock to his guns and just release what he was always going to release?

I hope we somehow get the 'whole story' and not half of it - with 4 hours to work with, I think he could (and should?) give us the whole thing, if possible.

We will see.

I think everyone in the industry learned a lot from the failure of the original Justice League. DC is a very different company as a result, they collected a lot of information that informed all of their other films.

OTOH, Directors seem to have a lot less influence over films these days, other movies have become group efforts that lack a single coherent vision.

I have no clue what to expect, so I'm trying not to. It's just a different place from where the movie originally started, there's opportunities to make it better or worse.

Just to be clear, DC has basically nothing to do with any of the movies. In fact, the DC comic creators don't even WANT anything to do with the movies. The DC movies are all Warner Brothers and WB has no idea what the feth they are doing.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
DC’s animated stuff definitely has a better track record.

Except Batman Ninja. That was flat out terrible. Was surprised when the Batmobile didn’t eventually become a Bat Kid’s Trike, then Bat Roller Skates.

Oh god, that dumpster fire. I was looking forward to that one because the character designs were really interesting takes on their look, but the movie is just mind bogglingly stupid. Like, if you haven’t seen it, and you watch it now, you’ll be like man, he’s right, this is really dumb. But wait! It’s only half over, and the movie will continue to ratchet up the stupidity several more times. How could this get dumber than this? Don’t worry, the movie finds a way!

Ok, to save you the suffering of sitting thru it yourself, the movie hit the first big dumb milestone when

Once you’ve started to recover from this shocking dumbness

But don’t worry, the good guys can fight that!

I don’t have a good segue here, but

Then they end it with an actual decent Batman vs Joker fight.
Curtain closes with Bruce Wayne (not Batman) riding thru Gotham in an open sided horse drawn Batmobile while sipping tea, because secret identities are for chumps apparently.

Mate, I got as far as the Ever Reducing Batmobile and bailed.

It felt like a really, really, awful FanFic. The sort a Neckbeard Weeb might scrawl.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
DC’s animated stuff definitely has a better track record.

Except Batman Ninja. That was flat out terrible. Was surprised when the Batmobile didn’t eventually become a Bat Kid’s Trike, then Bat Roller Skates.

Oh that film - I could not believe how bad it was given that the concept - Batman in fuedal Japan is a good one.