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 kodos wrote:

Icegoat wrote:
There is no second run people have latched onto something that is totally untrue.

there are shops who already take pre-orders for a second run shipped on August, so something must be there, if it is really another production run or just somehting that is already on stock but meant to be shipped later or the real 2-player starter set is something we don't know yet

and GW is constantly lying to the costumer, but people just don't care, because GW is still seen as the friendly garage-company start-up that must be forgiven because they don't have figured it out yet

No, I don't care because Evil MegaCorp or friendly garage company:
1) they're the ones making the models I want.
2) I don't have any problem getting what I want from them.
3) wether or not I care won't have any effect on 1 & 2. "Oh no, the company that makes my plastic toys lied to me about ____ !" (btw, what'd they lie to me about exactly?) So I just don't worry about them.

Tyel wrote:
It was obviously going to happen once it was revealed the box would be so cheap.

Personally think GW could have easily charged £200, maybe even £250. Or whatever double is in your respective currency - and they'd have still got through the stock (although, perhaps not in half an hour.)

But then we'd have had threads about how GW was ripping off people who for some reason have been playing this expensive hobby for years and years, but their plastic addiction means they can't afford to eat.

Exactly. GW could also have made it a webstore exclusive, and controlled sales that way...cue screeching about GW killing off independent retailers.

 kodos wrote:

Icegoat wrote:
There is no second run people have latched onto something that is totally untrue.

there are shops who already take pre-orders for a second run shipped on August, so something must be there, if it is really another production run or just somehting that is already on stock but meant to be shipped later or the real 2-player starter set is something we don't know yet

and GW is constantly lying to the costumer, but people just don't care, because GW is still seen as the friendly garage-company start-up that must be forgiven because they don't have figured it out yet

People don't care because for them, it's the only wargame in town. They sigh and complain but know they're going to keep paying or not play at all. Treating them as "they make friendly social media posts, surely they've changed!" just makes that bitter pill easier to swallow.

I think it's fair to say that quite a lot of the responses from the community have been an even greater flaming dumpster fire than GWs handling of the release.....I mean sheesh, I know scalpers suck, but people need to calm down a bit.

Yeah seriously, why would EVERYONE who plays 40K want this Indomitus box set? Its only Space Marines and Necrons. Order the 9th edition rulebook and play with any of the excellent armies besides the dudes in blue and the resurrecting robots. Alot of unnecessary drama in this thread honestly. ill bet if half the winers on this thread actually started calling around the local 40K game stores and put in a pre order they might see it sooner rather than later anyways.

Seabass wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Icegoat wrote:
There is no second run people have latched onto something that is totally untrue.

there are shops who already take pre-orders for a second run shipped on August, so something must be there, if it is really another production run or just somehting that is already on stock but meant to be shipped later or the real 2-player starter set is something we don't know yet

and GW is constantly lying to the costumer, but people just don't care, because GW is still seen as the friendly garage-company start-up that must be forgiven because they don't have figured it out yet

Do you even really understand what you're saying here? GW is considered a friendly garage startup?

Just, no.

I have never seen a game do so well by a community, that by all standards I can imagine, is objectively hated by the (at least mostly) vocal community on the internet?

Just, no. It's ok if you're upset you didn't get what you wanted (or maybe you did, I don't know) but pretending that people are looking favorably upon GW is clearly bereft of any observation of the community reaction to this.

there are some bubbles around that see GW as an evil Megacorp and/or 40k as a bad game

"the community" is different, switch the bubble and GW is the friendly Start-Up that still need time to learn how to write rules or to proper calculate the demand of Box-Sets, so people just need to be patient and keep buying so that GW is there long enough to figure those things out and get better

same as there are those bubbles that GW never did anything wrong and it was the evil community that caused games to fail, as well as those that consider 40k to be the best possible SciFi game that could be made as perfect balance is unachievable anyway

some of those folks are also here on dakka, others can be found on FB or Reddit (there were those nice discussions here that GW needs time to learn from bad written rules in 8th as if this was their first try on a SciFi game at all) but this part of the community is larger than the one who thinks of evil megacorps or bad written ruls, hence why GW can make that much money

it is part of their marketing and advertising, this is Nu-GW after all and they have nothing to do with old evil Kirby-GW and not even know anything about the games/rules that were made before (and it works very well)

PS: and I don't care, I learned my lesson long time ago and will never ever again buy into a new game (neither physical nor digital) in pre-order or start playing on release day

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Yeah seriously, why would EVERYONE who plays 40K want this Indomitus box set? Its only Space Marines and Necrons. Order the 9th edition rulebook and play with any of the excellent armies besides the dudes in blue and the resurrecting robots. Alot of unnecessary drama in this thread honestly. ill bet if half the winers on this thread actually started calling around the local 40K game stores and put in a pre order they might see it sooner rather than later anyways.

The vast majority of people play Space Marines and a sizeable portion of people will want to start a Necron army with the new releases (how long they stay committed to that project is a different story). A good proportion of people who don't 'main' Marines probably have an army of them as well, and with some of these models - supposedly - being limited sculpts they similarly don't want to miss out.

I do think this is somewhat Intentional from GW. The promised that they had made load and loads and said we shouldn’t worry, we got excited for what looks like a great release and 125 is a great price. They dropped it from 6 to 3 purchases, I would guess, knowing that they would get too much stick for letting half as many people buy up the stock.

They will do a second release but wait for everyone to get mega frustrated and hyped so it can sell out instantly again or at least fly off the shelves. My other thought is that it will be the same model set but the full 40 starter box now 160-180 pounds.

Why do I think this.... I work in a high demand customer focused environment. If something like this happened and I was genuinely suprised by the uptake, which then comprised a significant portion of customers, I would have at least sent out an email saying sorry this was unprecedented and we are going to do the following......

I don’t know much about the GW production line process but if they are using foreign production sources there is no way on gods green earth that they couldn’t have another 100k units made In a few weeks.

Personally I have no idea if they will make more, but if they do not they are leaving money on the table. Any holdup in a second/third/whatever print run will be down to having to get the print materials ordered, made and shipped from China or whatever. In turn any sprue production will inevitably hit other planned releases as machines are possibly turned over to making more Primaris and Crons.

Let's not forget that their release schedule has already been severely altered this year. On one hand that means at least GW are currently more open and ready to change on the drop of a dime but equally they may be less willing to.

I assume that the past 24 hours at GW head office has seen them ask :

Are we making more?
Can we make more?
When can we release them?
How will this alter our release schedule?
And how in the hell are we going to rectify this PR disaster?

Hopefully the answers appear on a Warhammer Community article in short order.

mrFickle wrote:
I do think this is somewhat Intentional from GW. The promised that they had made load and loads and said we shouldn’t worry, we got excited for what looks like a great release and 125 is a great price. They dropped it from 6 to 3 purchases, I would guess, knowing that they would get too much stick for letting half as many people buy up the stock.

They will do a second release but wait for everyone to get mega frustrated and hyped so it can sell out instantly again or at least fly off the shelves. My other thought is that it will be the same model set but the full 40 starter box now 160-180 pounds.

Why do I think this.... I work in a high demand customer focused environment. If something like this happened and I was genuinely suprised by the uptake, which then comprised a significant portion of customers, I would have at least sent out an email saying sorry this was unprecedented and we are going to do the following......

I don’t know much about the GW production line process but if they are using foreign production sources there is no way on gods green earth that they couldn’t have another 100k units made In a few weeks.

If GW made an announcement that, "Wow we're so shocked by the success of Indomitus!" and then said they'll have a two week window where any and all orders for the box will be honoured, albeit coming months later due to needing to be produced, I would not be surprised. This also has the benefit for them of positive PR spin "GW do listen to us guys!" and that in that time they'll probably sell a lot of rulebooks to those same people who want to get a game in NOW.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Given Covid I understand people not going down to their FLGS (if they are even currently open) to stand around with a load of other people but the bigger independent stockists had dual problems in that their allocations were smaller than expected and their websites ground to a halt due to traffic around 10am. This was the case with Element, Firestorm and plenty of others. The allocations were so low that many did not offer their 10 to 20% discount on the box. What shocked me most was the anger from a lot of people accusing the stores of profiteering by not offering a discount like they are entitled to it.

Do you know what royally pissed me off about this was the underhanded way it was done. No announcement that "sorry but we can't discount this". I'd be fine with that. I would go to someone who would and/or GW for security of supply. To not mention this and then to wait a few precious minutes before dropping the bombshell, leaving your customers with a straight choice of miss out or suck it up. That was what enraged me so much. Don't discount, fine. Always, always discount and don't even hint that you might not, let me draw up my budget and have an amount I know I can spend, that is in line with the discount you have applied EVERY damned time, then you are taking the proverbial. Running a business who's banner on the website states a certain discount of GW then picking and choosing when you apply that with no pre-warning is sharp practice at best. If the allocation is so low then what difference is a few £hundred going to make compared to misleading and cheating your customers? If I withdraw my business now they will lose a lot of money, over a long period of time for the sake of a few hundred quid? "Entitled"? Well if you clearly state a discount on your banner, literally the first thing on it then your customer is damned well entitled to you honouring that, or stating clearly that you won't. How can I trust them in future now. Every limited release they might decide "sod it we'll not discount that". I don't have money to throw away and GW is my major, major leisure spend so 20% off that is a massive part of my hobby allowances. I use the FLGS because they discount, if they don't do it, no sale, GW here we come. It's a business, they offer me a service and I accept their terms. If they start unilaterally choosing when to apply their own stated terms and that throws out my budgeting and ruins whatever plans I've got then hell yes I am entitled to be p***ed off. I am a customer, not some money pit that they can decide when to mine deeper. If GW do these limited editions and I want one, they sell out instantly. If I can't guarantee the discount I am told is on offer and only find out when the pre-order goes up that leaves me in a major problem. I won't have time to switch to another website, so I am likely to not go with them at all, because chances are when I try to switch it's too late. Foo me once and all that. So yes, if you advertise a discount your customers are quite literally entitled to it, because if you then magically decide not to apply it without warning on a product that they either accept the hit or miss out, then that is a disgraceful and cowardly ambush and it is lying and cheating. It is the store deciding that they can shaft their customers by forcing them to pay extra or miss out, it is like if I go down to Sony to pick up a new PS5 at Christmas and they advertise it at £500 on their website, then when I get to the front of the queue "sorry it's actually £750 now" and you know if you walk away it is months to wait, then you are being cheated. Same difference here. It might only be £25 but it all adds up and it might be that on every limited box from now on. If you warn me in advance then I can accept that, fair play, I go elsewhere. If you decide to reveal it on the day with a "take it or leave it" well then you are trying to scalp me plain and simple.

I don't think the mess is in any way intentional by GW....I take it as clownery all the way.

Perhaps GW could offer Blood of The Phoenix box sets to those that missed out

Mess is players having wrong expectations. Any who have seen limited edition sales before knew what to expect. Nothing Really surprising happened yesterday. slight surprise was it lasting as long as it did. Guess gw did make loads more than before.

 harlokin wrote:
I don't think the mess is in any way intentional by GW....I take it as clownery all the way.

Perhaps GW could offer Blood of The Phoenix box sets to those that missed out

At least people remember Blood of the Phoenix.

I hear the Wrath and Ruin box sets have weekly counselling sessions.

mrFickle wrote:
I do think this is somewhat Intentional from GW. The promised that they had made load and loads and said we shouldn’t worry, we got excited for what looks like a great release and 125 is a great price. They dropped it from 6 to 3 purchases, I would guess, knowing that they would get too much stick for letting half as many people buy up the stock.

They will do a second release but wait for everyone to get mega frustrated and hyped so it can sell out instantly again or at least fly off the shelves. My other thought is that it will be the same model set but the full 40 starter box now 160-180 pounds.

Why do I think this.... I work in a high demand customer focused environment. If something like this happened and I was genuinely suprised by the uptake, which then comprised a significant portion of customers, I would have at least sent out an email saying sorry this was unprecedented and we are going to do the following......

I don’t know much about the GW production line process but if they are using foreign production sources there is no way on gods green earth that they couldn’t have another 100k units made In a few weeks.

It's hard to know where the incompetence ends and the intention begins. Certainly the Catachan Colonel was intention, they could have done that made to order and had stores make a load off it, instead they gave out 1 or 2 and the three FLGS i know/follow (and im sure many are the same) all didn't know what to do with one model, would have felt gakky selling to the highest bidder, and so either did a random giveaway or did a raffle for charity, and didn't make anything off them.

THen we have this box set that went through:
'it will be available for a limited time only but we've made boat loads'
'you will be able to get one if you want one'
'you'll have to be quick'
'you'll need to be there on pre-order day'
and then sold out after ~15mins

it seems so odd that so many people on here are then having a go at the people who are annoyed because they weren't able to get one, and want to somehow blame the FOMO on them, when a) it's not FOMO if you do actually miss out, it's just missing out, and b) GW had a massive month long (6 weeks?) campaign of daily twitch videos and community articles all hyping it up, told everyone they would be able to get one, and then through incompetence or planning sold out after 15 mins. turning that into 'stupid consumer, why do you even care about getting the new edition with the super value box set, you'll be able to get everything over the next ~12months at 4x the cost anyway!' is just baffling, but also not, because its peak dakkadak

i mean this is the place where you regularly have people say stuff like

Blastaar wrote:


What's to like in 40k's gameplay, anyway? It's an exercise in rolling dice and removing models. 7th was more fun than this, despite the massive imbalance. Or maybe the brain-dead aspect is desirable, in our checked-out, lazy world.

i mean if you think that why are you here?

@Isengard, I get where you are coming from with those expectations given the discount applying at most of those stores most of the time (IIRC Feast of bones was originally at full rrp at Element and others due to the initial small print run, I think the Grand Master Edition of AT was the same). It is about communication, they should have been upfront with the price and their stock numbers which they clearly were not. I think the FLGS were blindsided by GW and in turn (whether on purpose or accidentally, I do not know) they ended up blind siding their customers.

The line of this thread is absolutely hilarious and tragic for those defending GW it started with ont be so stupid they will never run out of indomitus it will be in the shelves for months. Then it was it might run out but we dont know to oh of course it ran out ot was limited edition we always knew it would sell out quickly. Then it was dont worry obscure flgs and ebay scalpers will be selling it. Now it's why do you guys even care about this box get over it it's just plastic. This is a 40k forum people with that attitude and that blindness and subservience to GW should just hang their head in shame. It's a disgrace this box set should never have sold out but GW did this no one else.

Isengard wrote:
I would go to someone who would and/or GW for security of supply. To not mention this and then to wait a few precious minutes before dropping the bombshell, leaving your customers with a straight choice of miss out or suck it up. That was what enraged me so much.

i wouldn't read too much into this, there were a few websites that were late updating and i imagine its because they were getting hammered and having trouble. even waylands didn't go up until like 10 past, outpost's website completely crashed, giftforgeeks was i think about 10 past too, and all these three were running discounts and had no reason not to go live at 10.

Icegoat wrote:
The line of this thread is absolutely hilarious and tragic for those defending GW it started with ont be so stupid they will never run out of indomitus it will be in the shelves for months. Then it was it might run out but we dont know to oh of course it ran out ot was limited edition we always knew it would sell out quickly. Then it was dont worry obscure flgs and ebay scalpers will be selling it. Now it's why do you guys even care about this box get over it it's just plastic. This is a 40k forum people with that attitude and that blindness and subservience to GW should just hang their head in shame. It's a disgrace this box set should never have sold out but GW did this no one else.

Uh should never run out? What obligation gw has to make discount boxes? It's discount box. Not starter set.

Some entitlement there.

Just a point but how are GW leaving money on the table not making more? Each box is perhaps £4-500 worth of stock being sold for £100. Anyone who is a die-hard fan who "needs" that content will end up buying it for four to five times the price at regular retail values.

So GW isn't leaving money on the table. This isn't a once in a life time print of Dreadfleet that once its gone its gone; this is just a short term discount bundle of products that will go on general retail release.

This all reminds me of The Narcissist's Prayer:

That didn't happen. (GW won't make too few.)
And if it did, it wasn't that bad. (There's plenty even if some big stores got less than they asked for.)
And if it was, that's not a big deal. (What's the problem? It's just plastic toys, you nut)
And if it is, that's not my fault. (Coronavirus is at fault for halting production, not GW!)
And if it was, I didn't mean it. (GW didn't anticipate demand / GW made an honest mistake.)
And if I did...
You deserved it.

Icegoat wrote:
The line of this thread is absolutely hilarious and tragic for those defending GW it started with ont be so stupid they will never run out of indomitus it will be in the shelves for months. Then it was it might run out but we dont know to oh of course it ran out ot was limited edition we always knew it would sell out quickly. Then it was dont worry obscure flgs and ebay scalpers will be selling it. Now it's why do you guys even care about this box get over it it's just plastic. This is a 40k forum people with that attitude and that blindness and subservience to GW should just hang their head in shame. It's a disgrace this box set should never have sold out but GW did this no one else.

Subservience? And what are you exactly? The rebel revolutionary?

I understood Indomitus as what it was. A sale.

Lots of people lost the sale opportunity. I could have as well for a matter of minutes. Scalpers might be a problem, yes, but no idea why people are blaming GW over this fiasco

GW are apparently evil geniuses who want to help scalpers by making Indomitus great value, but not producing an unlimited number of the boxes. Then they are also the idiots who made Blood of The Phoenix, which was overpriced and full of useless, reheated gak.

The only sane conclusion is that GW are conspiring with Icegoat, to give him something to vent his spleen over.

The difference is needing and wanting to though. You may only need a £35 box of assault intercessors or a £40 rulebook. In turn it is better to get £125 when the buyer may not need most of it. How many of our wargaming friends or selves have hundreds of pounds of product stored away and unused somewhere? I am far more likely to spend the money on a splash release like this rather than 4 or five times that money on piecemeal releases as the months roll on.

Did I buy the box, yes, I like the marines in it and I want to give necrons a try.

Is the whole release strategy horrible and likely to annoy a lot of people, also yes.

I only bought the box because I’ll end up buying the rule book and those marines probably off eBay and I don’t want to be charged through the nose for them. GW knew this box was going to sell out in a short space of time, and if they didn’t they’re either real dumb or should get the marketing team to dial down the hype. A lot of people on here make the mistake of not realising everyone in the hobby is as in the loop as us, people were unaware of the box even being released, they’re were people interested but not realised when it went on sale or even that it was due. It’s just going to leave people feeling a bit jaded and left out.

My question?

Did OP get a copy?

Did he even want a copy?

Or is it all just manufactured outrage for reasons best known to himself?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
My question?

Did OP get a copy?

Did he even want a copy?

Or is it all just manufactured outrage for reasons best known to himself?

I think that OP was pretty obviously a setup to be able to come back and post HAHA I WAS RIGHT SHEEPLE later on, sadly.

Manufactured outrage is my call.

I see we're onto the "You deserved it!" stage of the Narcissist's Prayer. I think I posted a few posts too early.

 Overread wrote:
Just a point but how are GW leaving money on the table not making more? Each box is perhaps £4-500 worth of stock being sold for £100. Anyone who is a die-hard fan who "needs" that content will end up buying it for four to five times the price at regular retail values.

So GW isn't leaving money on the table. This isn't a once in a life time print of Dreadfleet that once its gone its gone; this is just a short term discount bundle of products that will go on general retail release.

When you say 4-500 pound of stock do you mean if it were sold as separate units on the shelf? Cos that is the wrong way to look at the value of the stock. The fact that is sold for 125 doesn’t mean they are under cutting themselves or doing us a favour, it’s evidence of the amount of markup on most products. GW is the only uk store that continued to make a profit and increase its share price proves that they make money on every sale.

Their business model is to create demand and control supply. It’s not new and it’s fair enough. But it’s not a business model that that should be defended by customers because it’s the demand is based on want of the product not satisfaction of.

GW could have stated the price and set pre orders before production started and fulfilled every order, even if we had to accept Covid related delays. We would have accepted that I’m sure. But if they did that it will instantly undermine the whole business model because suddenly our expectations are changed.

 auticus wrote:
Kind of. The thing with video games though is typically unless its just blatant pay to win, if I buy a video game thats pvp, I don't have to invest a ton of money into buying the faction first, and the company doesn't then invalidate my faction by making it crap at their annual FAQ/"rebalancing" session that forces me to buy a new faction to keep playing.

I can just jump over to a different faction typically.

It depends on the game.

Someone mentioned FIFA. Most people who consider themselves gamers don't interact with or think about sports games. Sports games have long since had the most predatory monetization properties in gaming, but because there is that divide, gamers only notice when monetization tested in sports migrates to a more traditional game. Like, oh, battlefront 2. All the horrible gak people flipped out over? Been in FIFA for yeeeeeears.

But often it's not even about winning. Fortnite, still number one popular game on the planet, doesn't give a feth about the W. What is does care about and what it pushes its players, a large proportion children, to seek is self expression tools. Monetizing how you look and interact. And this has, well, a detrimental effect on interactions tween the kids that can, through permissive parents and economic security, express themselves, and those that can't. Cause kids are more honestly gakky with each other over the things we're generally gakky with each other about.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blastaar wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

It certainly is terrible if people are having fun. We can't have that.

I bough the box because the models are amazing. Easily worth the money.

I wouldn't call them "amazing." The sculpts have some serious flaws. The captain posing for a photo shoot on the middle of the battlefield. The veterans who donned their tabards and armor in the wrong sequence. The grip on the super-meltas. The pig-nosed necrons. The goofy drapes on the characters. The unnecessarily-huge support structure for the tripods' melee weapons. I don't care for GW's move away from gauss rods, either- thankful 3rd parties still make them.

Continuing to buy minis, however pretty, does not encourage GW to write better rules, either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Blastaar wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

I don't understand that type of thinking. If socializing is the priority, why play 40k? Why not a cheaper game? Why not just hang out over a couple beers?

Because they like the models? Because they like the setting? Maybe, and this is a crazy thought, they actually like 40K as a game?

You misunderstand me. If socializing is the priority, not gaming, why bother with any game? Is it impossible for some folks to converse without chucking dice?

What's to like in 40k's gameplay, anyway? It's an exercise in rolling dice and removing models. 7th was more fun than this, despite the massive imbalance. Or maybe the brain-dead aspect is desirable, in our checked-out, lazy world.

For some people? Yes it is difficult for them to interact without the context of a game.

The very idea that the best way to interact is over beers at a pub is actually kind of old fashioned and separately gross. And if this is actually your primary form of interaction, it won't be cheaper either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Apple fox wrote:

 Knockagh wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Thing is some scalpers have had preorders up on ebay for nigh on two weeks, no doubt the suckers will have been expecting more boxes than they actually got. Most of their pre order auctions are filled with provisos that the auction is dependent upon getting a supply so hopefully a lot of them have been burned and are now furiously having to offer refunds. Not sure if PayPal or ebay take any cut on that but even if they have not lost some money they will certainly have wasted a lot of time. Small joys and all that.

I had this problem a few months ago during the sisters release. I went on to get the limited novel but it came out same day as the next seige book. So not wanting to miss the seige book I bought it first and the sisters book was gone when I went back. I went to the filthy scalpers to buy one and found one at £80 but it now. Bought it didn’t hear anything for weeks and then got an email saying the seller had a supply problem. In other words he never even had the item! I couldn’t believe it, left him a one star review and he went bonkers pleading with me to change it and then eventually calling me a liar! He even posted a reply to my review saying he had been let down by his supplier and that had caused the issue. I had never used eBay for books before and never will again. If I miss out I miss out. I’m pretty sure many of the eBay scalpers are GW employees. I’ve seen pictures of books taken in stores etc. Can’t be certain but I wouldn’t be surprised if employees get first chance to buy.

Sadly it happens, years back a local EBgames got cleaned out for it. Every employee was fired over Scalping issues. So i can imagine that someone at a GW somewhere would do it.

Someone at a GW somewhere DID do it. Years ago. And GW took away privileges from all their employees over it.