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 warmaster21 wrote:
So 10 point Reavers, that sounds like a mistake

Yeah especially when hellions are 17 points.. clearly they mixed the two up lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Wracks just broke the game. 6x20 wracks in PoF with the stratagem..... Reavers and Hellions most likely got mixed up.

For a whole month until they lose the invuln and black cornucopians lol.

Everyone should take a deep breath with these since the book is due in a month or so, and clearly things are changing. The DE book never has minor changes either.

Well it will be in March most likely, so 2 months.

Where are these new points located? I can only seem to find the Errata.

did they lower the unit size cap on the beasts and grotesques? could have sworn they were higher but dont have my book on hand at the moment.

Khymera and grots both lost units sizes

The Unit sizes vary if you look at the Montiorum Field Manual or if you look in the Power Rating Update PDF.

For example, Wracks are 5-20 in the MFM and 5-10 in the PR PDF. Grots are 3-6 in the MFM and 3-10 in the PR PDF.

So, who knows?

From how the MFM is formatted it looks like the Court is back to being a single bodyguard unit instead of individuals wandering around. I always hated that those guys were just the easiest targets for first blood.

 cuda1179 wrote:
From how the MFM is formatted it looks like the Court is back to being a single bodyguard unit instead of individuals wandering around. I always hated that those guys were just the easiest targets for first blood.

Nice find!!! That's good, for sure.

 Denegaar wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
From how the MFM is formatted it looks like the Court is back to being a single bodyguard unit instead of individuals wandering around. I always hated that those guys were just the easiest targets for first blood.

Nice find!!! That's good, for sure.

I actually kind of wish beasts would go back to a single unit too.

Brutus_Apex wrote:Where are these new points located? I can only seem to find the Errata.

FAQs on GW's community FAQ site

warmaster21 wrote:did they lower the unit size cap on the beasts and grotesques? could have sworn they were higher but dont have my book on hand at the moment.

Might be b.c of WWSWF has been changed to full units, having 10 Grots would be really hard to full kill, espiecally now they are 5pts cheaper and you can take 3 units of them with a 4++ or -1D that can heal once a turn.

Link to units below

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/76UtmPgtSCGKJAnW.pdf

 warmaster21 wrote:
did they lower the unit size cap on the beasts and grotesques? could have sworn they were higher but dont have my book on hand at the moment.

Yes. Grotesques used to be able to have units of 10 and now it's down to 6 max. I think clawed fiends were 6 and razorwing flocks and khymerae were 12 each.

Khymerae's are 6 mans now instead of 12 as well.

well that will make it easier to use my horizon zero dawn miniatuers as the different beasts then if I need less of them now

 warmaster21 wrote:
well that will make it easier to use my horizon zero dawn miniatuers as the different beasts then if I need less of them now

One of my favorites games.

Well, the official app is different than the PDF, in some cases.

Grots are still 3-10, Khymerae still 2-12 and go in pairs. Hellion and Reaver have the same points as the PDF though.

Minor changes in some HQ points.

 cuda1179 wrote:
From how the MFM is formatted it looks like the Court is back to being a single bodyguard unit instead of individuals wandering around. I always hated that those guys were just the easiest targets for first blood.

Man alive though would it ever be so easy to have them bring back Trueborns and Bloodbrides by allowing you to take TB BB and Acothysts in your Court unit depending on whether your detachment contains an Archon Succubus or Haemonculus... just give us Command Squads like other factions have, it's not that hard. If anything, it'd help drive sales of the Court models.

Especially now that the ENTIRE hyper-extensive weapons of torture melee weapon list is going to be limited to JUST the sergeants in Wrack squads..

If I'm not mistaken, GW is making units in the new Codexes that can be upgraded paying CP or points.

It wouldn't be madness that we could get one unit of Kabs, Wyches or Wracks or our list, pay like 50% more for them but upgrade them to Trueborns, Bloodbrides or Acothysts.

 Denegaar wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, GW is making units in the new Codexes that can be upgraded paying CP or points.

It wouldn't be madness that we could get one unit of Kabs, Wyches or Wracks or our list, pay like 50% more for them but upgrade them to Trueborns, Bloodbrides or Acothysts.

That would be a heck of an idea. Almost too good for GW to actually realize and implement.

Basically Death Company is something like that... slightly different Intercessors/Tacticals.

And the same for the Captains and Lieutenants.

If they are afraid of Blasterborn in Venoms, they can put a max of one unit for each detachment or so.

I'd love to see it, but the only problem I'd have is that I'd really love them to copy the command squad structure exactly because

1) I don't want to see Trueborns/BBs spammable again

2) I'd really like them to be Unit Size 4, for what is hopefully obvious reasons.

Or just give us the same goddamn TC6/TC11 that everyone else has already :/ if you're THAT dedicated to every HQ being on-foot monoloadout melee build.

the_scotsman wrote:
I'd love to see it, but the only problem I'd have is that I'd really love them to copy the command squad structure exactly because

1) I don't want to see Trueborns/BBs spammable again

2) I'd really like them to be Unit Size 4, for what is hopefully obvious reasons.

Or just give us the same goddamn TC6/TC11 that everyone else has already :/ if you're THAT dedicated to every HQ being on-foot monoloadout melee build.

Would spamming trueborn really even be a problem, you would be paying out the ass for T3 1w models with extra special weapon slots.... not to mention there is literally a kabal made almost entirely of trueborn.... also all those useless melee custom kabal traits might even work with 2a trueborn

 warmaster21 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I'd love to see it, but the only problem I'd have is that I'd really love them to copy the command squad structure exactly because

1) I don't want to see Trueborns/BBs spammable again

2) I'd really like them to be Unit Size 4, for what is hopefully obvious reasons.

Or just give us the same goddamn TC6/TC11 that everyone else has already :/ if you're THAT dedicated to every HQ being on-foot monoloadout melee build.

Would spamming trueborn really even be a problem, you would be paying out the ass for T3 1w models with extra special weapon slots.... not to mention there is literally a kabal made almost entirely of trueborn.... also all those useless melee custom kabal traits might even work with 2a trueborn

Imagine a Trueborn with a Blaster is 20, that's around 175 points for 5 of them in a Venom, that gives them pretty good armor and insane mobility. I think it should be a max number for todays standards. I don't know how to balance it though.

Capacities of 6 and 12 should be mandatory for all transports, and we are one of the most transport centric armies.

I agree we need at least +1 capacity on each transport, it sucks there is never room for our leaders to ride aboard... though i guess archons do prefer their own pleasure boats to themselves

For having super stripped down to the bare minimum to maximize speed and maneuverability (and yet somehow we arent super fast compared to the more armored eldar vehicles) we have less transport space (despite in previous edition having kabilites literally hanging off from nets and on the side of the vehicles)....

Don't even get me started. We had to deal with no trueborn for a while and then 9 points 3+ to hit guardsmen for most intents and purposes for just warriors instead of trueborn. I get the weapons were a bit different but 50% more than the cost of guardsmen is a steep flippin cost for just +1 to hit more. Poisoned weapons aren't even good against their intended targets.

Anyway considering all the things GW makes troops or objective secured do any of you think trueborn and bloodbrides should come back and if they do they should technically count as troops? I mean for Guard stormtroopers are currently Troop choices and they have a similar role as our scourge squads currently with a more modest cost. Admech has those kataphron robots as troops. Marines have a huge portion of troops. Even in the old days Dire Avengers were troops. Why can't Trueborn and even possibly scourge be troops? Well maybe not scourge but it'd certainly be silly and is one of several things making scourge not worth taking with the limit of 3 units. Who knows maybe we'll get a halfway decent fix. At least it couldn't be worse than 7th ed dark eldar going against the triple riptide or stormsurge garbage.

Sisters Rets, Doms, Celest's, and BSS all are the same model and literally the same kit. We should be able to get the same treatment, this is what makes me the most mad.

Trueborn 0-4 weapons and Bloodbride's 0-4 wych weapons

In my head, Trueborn are just cockier Kabalites. As they are higher in the Commorragh society, they have access to better weapons... but they are not much different than a Halfborn Warrior, so they should still be troops, IMO.

In 5th edition guards vet squads were troops. They moved em back to elites but stormtroopers are currently troops. Yeah a unit with a similar role to our scourge including the armor and less points. Currently trueborn don't exist but if we are looking for an even playing field making them troops wouldn't be asking too much. It could potentially solve our firepower problems provided gw doesn't price them ridiculously. Of course they'd often be an auto include if they did exist again unless gw could make the rest of our codex worth a damn.

Took Drazhar out of my lists for now. IMO as is he is not worth 135pts. Took Lelith for a couple games and surprisingly she did well. Not as good as a TriSuccubus for Strife, but good enough, sadly she doesn't use up any drugs (its her fluff so thats fine) but that means i can't have more +atks on more wych units if taking a lot, now that is also a plus if you are taking limited Wych units like 2 Wyches, 1 Reaver units, but if you are taking 3 Reaver units and want +1T on them all, then she is not the HQ for you.

I only took 1 Reaver unit of 9 at 10pts as I am 100% sure Hellions and Reavers points got mixed up. I also think Wracks and Wyches got mixed up or Wracks are not supposed to be 5-20, so I played only 2 units of 15 to be a bit nicer and preparing for the change back.

Over all the new updated points are fine besides Drazhar, could he have gone up? Yes, but I would have only done 15pts at most.

Interesting update, thanks.

Do you take many Incubi? I was wondering if Drazhar is still worthwhile in an Incubi-heavy list, for the bonus to wound.

Did you put a Reaper in the Cult of Strife detachment? I'm curious as to whether that would be worth it for the 'shoot again' stratagem.