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the_scotsman wrote:


Which they will. Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure Aircraft Keyword+Open Topped Transport was not intentional on GW's part yall. i would not run out and buy 10 of these things.

They've been out of production for a while. Im amazed they've not been given the legends treatment.

 Lysit wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


Which they will. Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure Aircraft Keyword+Open Topped Transport was not intentional on GW's part yall. i would not run out and buy 10 of these things.

They've been out of production for a while. Im amazed they've not been given the legends treatment.

Give it...tops one edition. Most likely less. Do not buy models for good rules, SUPER DUPER EXTRA do not buy FORGEWORLD models for good rules.

You'll pay twice as much, and you'll get your investment invalidated 100% harder and 100% faster.

Its more like people wanna use Ghaz, and since the game is more midfield-focused now Goffs arent AS bad now and Ghaz is just too sexy of a model to leave out if you happen to be running a lot of melee.

I dont think we'll see Ghaz at the top tables, or at least the highest Orks go, but he isnt dead thats for sure.

Still say deathskullz are the go-to faction, they just arent as obvious of one.

--

So i'm doing something incredibly stupid because...i can..lol..

Battalion: Goff

HQ:
Makari
Ghaz (Warlord)
Megamek KFF/Rokkit/Oiler

Troops:
3x10 Grots

Elites:
3x10 Killsaw Nobz
Painboy
Bannernob (no PK)

KFF covers 2 MANz squads (not enough space for all 3) by being sandwiched between them, painboy to heal the occational damage and allow me to not be able to actually move away from ghaz/makari if i need to. Bannernob...because why would i not with that many unweildy weapons?

This is a horridly stupid list that unless you have a printer i wouldnt recommend trying....but i has a printer..so im trying lol. Never see myself using more than 10 nobz, which i have the proper models for, so the other 20 will be "alternatives" so i dont break my wallet lol.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Its more like people wanna use Ghaz, and since the game is more midfield-focused now Goffs arent AS bad now and Ghaz is just too sexy of a model to leave out if you happen to be running a lot of melee.

I dont think we'll see Ghaz at the top tables, or at least the highest Orks go, but he isnt dead thats for sure.

Still say deathskullz are the go-to faction, they just arent as obvious of one.

Yeah fair. Honestly if I do double detachment, Goffs w/ Ghaz looks mighty tempting. I'm not sure that the deep strike -> charge stuff is as interesting as a midfield broozer that basically can push an objective nearly alone.

Ghaz just makes *sense* in 9th. His ruleset really lends itself to what he does best -- Go to the midboard and HOLD an objective. If you heal and screen him properly, he's just so annoying to shift, and if he's above 5 wounds, he'll basically win almost any CC battle he gets into.. or at the very least, more than make his points back.

I think if you want to build around Ghaz then mono Goffs make sense. DS giving obsec to MANz and Kommandos seems very good though. The hardest part I'm having in listbuilding is not giving up a ton of easy secondaries.

Thoughts on Killa Kanz? I really want them to be good but I'm not sure they are.

They are not!!!
Try again next edition

I think ghaz will be a competitive list option but no orks will be on the top tables
Ghaz greatest strength is he is incredibly difficult to get slay the warlord from without over committing to killing him and thus ignoring to much of the rest of the army. His ideal list is goff and boy heavy with kff and invul keeping them alive... and then greentiding them back to full. It’s annoying and you shouldn’t worry about killing everything just playing the mission and denying your opponent the mission.

And yes he just takes away one midfield objective “come at me bro”... the new rule with adv and charge makes ghaz move much faster.

Nope, theyre trash.
They could have been good if they didnt hyke their prices so much. Allowing them to shoot rokkits in melee would have been a nice boon but not with that price hyke on an already expensive for what it does model.

Killa Kanz got hit with a double whammy of a nerf, rough points increase plus they give up really easy "bring it down" VPs. They were already quite mediocre in post CA2019 8th because they don't get kulturs and strats so as of right now I see absolutely no reason to run them (unless you love the models and just want something fluffy&fun).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elfric wrote:
Thoughts on Killa Kanz? I really want them to be good but I'm not sure they are.

They are extremely overcosted. Which is a shame because with Tin 'eadz Kulture and a kustom job they could have been decent at least. They were in the last months of 8th edition.

tulun wrote:
Seems like a lot of love is going the Goff way. Are people that high on them competitively?

They do seem poised to replace evil suns as the CC army.

Problem with Goffs is that they are mostly horde oriented which is a style of playing that I don't like. Plus I consider a Morkanaut almost mandatory and I'm not in favor of fielding two 300+ points single models in the same list. But Goffs are definitely in a good spot now and probably work fine even without 90+ (skar)boyz.

I'm playing Deathskullz, which is the theme of my army anyway. So far I've tried basically the same list:

 Blackie wrote:

Problem with Goffs is that they are mostly horde oriented which is a style of playing that I don't like. Plus I consider a Morkanaut almost mandatory and I'm not in favor of fielding two 300+ points single models in the same list. But Goffs are definitely in a good spot now and probably work fine even without 90+ (skar)boyz.

Mork being an mandatory? Wow, that's certainly a hot take. In all lists, or just the mech style?

I think the Goff horde stuff will be really good. Honestly, blast sucks but its super expensive, but horde jamming up the midboard probably wins games, especially when you can build around the ultimate midboard holder, Ghaz.

tulun wrote:


Mork being an mandatory? Wow, that's certainly a hot take. In all lists, or just the mech style?

Mech style of course, which is what I like to run, not mandatory in any type of list. Probably not exactly mandatory but it provides a significant amount of firepower and it's able to soak a lot of anti tank shots. Mech style lists must have redundancy or they just fail miserably. A Wazbom with an additional wagon could replace it maybe.

 Blackie wrote:

tulun wrote:


Mork being an mandatory? Wow, that's certainly a hot take. In all lists, or just the mech style?

Mech style of course, which is what I like to run, not mandatory in any type of list. Probably not exactly mandatory but it provides a significant amount of firepower and it's able to soak a lot of anti tank shots. Mech style lists must have redundancy or they just fail miserably. A Wazbom with an additional wagon could replace it maybe.

Totally fair.

It's a shame Burna Bombers seem to wanna eat up the flier slots. I think the Wazbom actually made out alright, but if you're playing to win, double Burna is probably the way to go in every list.

the_scotsman wrote:

Probably because suicide short range antitank units are not a new thing? They're 120pts with 6 melta shots, right? And presumably you're getting them one of those flying ford F-150s so they don't get shot if you don't get first turn.

6

Which they will. Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure Aircraft Keyword+Open Topped Transport was not intentional on GW's part yall. i would not run out and buy 10 of these things.

Reserves rather than transport.

And yes chinorks can be shot though plenty of terrain that flat out hides chinork anyway physically and 10 isn"t that easy to take down especially for certain armies. Necrons for example will weep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lysit wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


Which they will. Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure Aircraft Keyword+Open Topped Transport was not intentional on GW's part yall. i would not run out and buy 10 of these things.

They've been out of production for a while. Im amazed they've not been given the legends treatment.

No index replacement has come yet. Thus no legends for any fw

gungo wrote:


Chinorks!!!
Open topped
Fast movement gets you where you need to be
And gives even more dakka
But once it’s popped your stuck being tankbustas again

I really like using Chinorks and have done all through 8th. Tankbustas is nice (deepstrike!) but nowadays I put in deffskull Nobs - two rokkits/klaw/big choppa and dual choppas (sometimes a couple of kombi-skorchas as well). When their ride goes down they have more stayingpower (3+ save) then tankbustas. DS gives them a reroll as well as their ammorunt. Love 'em.

But if you're using Chinorks competative, fill them up with bustas and deepstrike them to really put some hurt on your opponent.

 Tomsug wrote:
Goff? No, but everybody paint Ghaz and want to play him

This

Plus the beginning of an edition is the only time you can get away with playing goff while everyone else is still struggling to make sense of the new edition

Jidmah - true is that this moment is awesome. Everything is possible. Just try and enjoy. In couple of month the meta armies smash the fun in T1

Not to mention you may get lucky and mess with someone's brain so they start to think about that ridiculous list you tried that actually worked that one time....except you are doing something totally different now lol

Yeah, compare to it to the beginning of 8th when what we had was the crappy index. Now we have a codex and a supplement, both more than decent. And index points costs were disgustingly higher than the new ones on most of the stuff! These are great times, indeed.

So standard Ork build until codex probably be something like this?

A few questions for y'all:

Big Choppas or Klaws on Boy Squad Nobz?
and
Makari or a Painboy?

Mainly having issues with Makari since he is an HQ slot and a Battalion can only take 3

 gmaleron wrote:
A few questions for y'all:

Big Choppas or Klaws on Boy Squad Nobz?
and
Makari or a Painboy?

Mainly having issues with Makari since he is an HQ slot and a Battalion can only take 3

I think killsaws are the clear winners, better AP and flat 2 damage. I'd go for the painboy over Makari if you are only taking one just to medi squig Ghaz.

Personally for boyz Mobs I'd go big choppa for the cheapness. I wouldn't expect more than 1 out of 2 boyz units to actually make it into combat unless they're full sized ones. And even then units like the new gladiator tank make that look unlikely.

Nobz Mobs would be the ones to get those expensive, killy options due to having higher armour.

Bigdoza wrote:
So standard Ork build until codex probably be something like this?

Spoiler:

2000 <Goffs> Batallion

Big Mek W/ KFF
Ghazghkull Thraka
Makari

Boyz - Shoota x9, Nob w/Killsaws
Boyz - Shoota x9, Nob w/Killsaws
Boyz - Shoota x9, Nob w/Killsaws
Trukk x3

Kommandos x4 - Nob: Power Klaw
Kommandos x4 - Nob: Power Klaw
Meganobz w/Killsaws x5
Painboy

Battlewagon - 'Ard Case, Deff Rolla, Forktress
Mek Gunz - Smasha Gun x6

Burna-bommer x2

Probably not. It's just everyone messing around with Thrakka right now since the change to his Waaagh! might actually leave him as a decent choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gmaleron wrote:
A few questions for y'all:

Big Choppas or Klaws on Boy Squad Nobz?
and
Makari or a Painboy?

Mainly having issues with Makari since he is an HQ slot and a Battalion can only take 3

IMO it's killsaw > big choppa > klaw

 gmaleron wrote:
A few questions for y'all:

Big Choppas or Klaws on Boy Squad Nobz?
and
Makari or a Painboy?

Mainly having issues with Makari since he is an HQ slot and a Battalion can only take 3

I'd go with Big Choppa for anything that isn't Deathskullz or maybe Goffs. Killsaw the only other competitive option. Power klaws only for playing pure WYSIWYG if models were built with those but killsaws outperform them completely.

Boyz don't do much unless they get significant buffs: Ghaz and Deathskulls re-rolls + Maniacal Seizures are their best options to make them more killy IMHO. If you want to bring killy boyz or you have a few spared points give them killsaws, otherwise if you plan to use them for board control, surround objectives or contest objectives that are controlled by some enemy units big choppas will do fine.

Appreciate the feedback guys! Have tentatively put together yet another list but this one I am definitely more confident about as it gives me speed, decent durability, more board control/objective taking ability, thoughts?

I personally wouldn't run MANZ in squads bigger than 5, as it has drawbacks both in terms of blast weaponry and stricter coherency checks (also, they become quite pricey IMO). If you remove a single meganob you could put a squad of boyz in that same battlewagon (which would mitigate losses if it blows up, as you simply kill your boyz instead). Meaning you could also remove a trukk, I'd look around for a couple of more points to shave such as a couple of tankbustas and grot riggers to create enough space for a burna bommer.

That's my take on it, I'm not even sure if 2 KFF meks are worth it as they might have trouble to keep up but you can probably make that work with a bit of kunnin'

PiñaColada wrote:
I personally wouldn't run MANZ in squads bigger than 5, as it has drawbacks both in terms of blast weaponry and stricter coherency checks (also, they become quite pricey IMO). If you remove a single meganob you could put a squad of boyz in that same battlewagon (which would mitigate losses if it blows up, as you simply kill your boyz instead). Meaning you could also remove a trukk, I'd look around for a couple of more points to shave such as a couple of tankbustas and grot riggers to create enough space for a burna bommer.

That's my take on it, I'm not even sure if 2 KFF meks are worth it as they might have trouble to keep up but you can probably make that work with a bit of kunnin'

Some good advice man, hard to justify a Burna Bomber though since 1 will get shot right out of the sky before it has the chance to do anything.

If I drop the Trukk and 1 MANZ it gives me 105pts to work with so I will see what I could play around with, Meks would be in the Tankbusta Trukks to help keep my Anti-Armor alive. Maybe ill look at 2 squads of Kommandos or some Deffkoptas to help with secondary objectives. Also maybe some Gretchin and use them to hold my backfield objective

tneva82 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Probably because suicide short range antitank units are not a new thing? They're 120pts with 6 melta shots, right? And presumably you're getting them one of those flying ford F-150s so they don't get shot if you don't get first turn.

6

Which they will. Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure Aircraft Keyword+Open Topped Transport was not intentional on GW's part yall. i would not run out and buy 10 of these things.

Reserves rather than transport.

And yes chinorks can be shot though plenty of terrain that flat out hides chinork anyway physically and 10 isn"t that easy to take down especially for certain armies. Necrons for example will weep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lysit wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


Which they will. Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure Aircraft Keyword+Open Topped Transport was not intentional on GW's part yall. i would not run out and buy 10 of these things.

They've been out of production for a while. Im amazed they've not been given the legends treatment.

No index replacement has come yet. Thus no legends for any fw

Wait, the concern is people paying CP to strategic reserve these dudes? So they like turn up turn 2, and they have to be within 6" of a board edge that isn't yours and isn't in your DZ?

Wouldn't that make them pretty ridiculously easy to screen out? Just pile a flank like is smart to do tactically anyway and keep them from popping up on that side of the board... I guess I'm just not seeing why theyr'e SO nuts compared to stuff that works in an extremely similar way like Fire Dragons. You can spend 1Cp to give those guys unrestricted deep strike, and with the basic exarch power they deal 2 more damage on average outside melta range. I'm not saying the Eradicators aren't a solidly better unit for no real reason, but I guess to me they don't seem that meta-shattering that we have to just stop using vehicles. Heck, if you're in a KFF and you screen them out of melta range even a buggy survives them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gmaleron wrote:
Appreciate the feedback guys! Have tentatively put together yet another list but this one I am definitely more confident about as it gives me speed, decent durability, more board control/objective taking ability, thoughts?

Spoiler:

GOFFS:

-Ghaz
-x2 Big Meks with KFF

-x4 Squads of 10 Slugga Boys, Killsaw Nobz, x1 Tankbusta Bomb
-x4 Trukks

-x1 Painboy
-x6 Meganobz w/ Dual Killsaws
-x2 Squads of 10 Tankbustas
-x2 Trukks

-x1 Battlewagon
*w/ Deffrolla, Killkannon, Grot Riggers

TOTAL ARMY: 2,000 POINTS

TACTICS:

-Ghaz pushes up the board with the Painboy, Trukks w/Boyz provide speed, decent Defense and Overwatch tanking ability, Meganobz in Battlewagon aim for the juiciest target while Tankbustas w/Meks zip around the board targeting priority targets.

Really interesting list, I do think trukks are pretty underrated in the new edition and I like the distraction/no win situation of having to pick between targeting them and starting the process of wearing down ghazzy. My only concern would be worrying about getting bogged down in cheap chaff infantr, who would be quite good at shutting down both ghaz and manz.

Chinorks currently deep strike for free. The fact they can be seen behind terrain is largely irrelevant imo.

I think the Eradicators are going to make a major splash. Points going up means hyper point efficient units matter... these are ridiculously point efficient for what they do.

Definitely better in certain chapters. Like Ravenguard, which can give them proper deep strike, or even like White Scars, because they can fully advance and shoot without penalty.