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tneva82 wrote:
Power is +1 to save rolls. No 2++.

Ah, right, that way it properly interacts with AP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
First post updated:
+ unit rankings and summaries for 9th
+ subcultures rankings and summaries
+ kustom job summaries
+ completed specialist detachments
- legends units removed

Sniff.

It’s beautiful.

Orks first place.

https://www.40kstats.com/adelaidegt

A snazzwagon?
That baffles me more than being the top.

The only thing i could conceivably see a snazzwagon for is since that is a 100% solid vehicle list it was probably his dedicated Action unit, as while it cant shoot it still gets -1 when attacked so its a little tougher to kill than a second KBB.

 Jidmah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Power is +1 to save rolls. No 2++.

Ah, right, that way it properly interacts with AP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
First post updated:
+ unit rankings and summaries for 9th
+ subcultures rankings and summaries
+ kustom job summaries
+ completed specialist detachments
- legends units removed

I just read it through, fantastic job man. I have a couple of little nitpicks/differing opinion but they are super minor as I found myself agreeing with basically all of it.

- Calling the KMK a "budget smasha gun" seems odd as it's more expensive. That KMK is upgunned to a fault IMO as it turns it into too much of a glass cannon, although the lower range isn't as much of a negative anymore.
- I'd argue Nob bikers with their modest points increase and access to the "Full speed ladz" strat buffing their big choppas to S8 make them as least as good as normal warbikers and thus yellow.
- I'm sort of wondering if the waaagh banner nob should be yellow as well? He's so darn expensive, doesn't do anything other than his buff and is pretty squishy..
- Same thing with the SAG mek, with no more SSAG, way uphiked points, limited HQ slots & easier character targeting I'm finding a real tough time seeing any truly good reason for taking him. Just bring 3 smashas instead. I'd say yellow here..

PiñaColada wrote:
- Calling the KMK a "budget smasha gun" seems odd as it's more expensive. That KMK is upgunned to a fault IMO as it turns it into too much of a glass cannon, although the lower range isn't as much of a negative anymore.

Budget in a way of spending actual money. Six KMK have a similar performance to 12 smashas, but only cost half as much when buying them.

Otherwise, valid points. Especially nob bikers seemed off when I left them in red.

 Jidmah wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
- Calling the KMK a "budget smasha gun" seems odd as it's more expensive. That KMK is upgunned to a fault IMO as it turns it into too much of a glass cannon, although the lower range isn't as much of a negative anymore.

Budget in a way of spending actual money. Six KMK have a similar performance to 12 smashas, but only cost half as much when buying them.

Otherwise, valid points. Especially nob bikers seemed off when I left them in red.

Ah, that makes sense. Also maybe put all the specialist detachment stuff in a spoiler as it's getting increasingly less relevant but should still be accessible if you want to use it? Just to make post a bit less daunting in size.

Are you planning/want to have a tier list for secondaries as well?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
A snazzwagon?
That baffles me more than being the top.

The only thing i could conceivably see a snazzwagon for is since that is a 100% solid vehicle list it was probably his dedicated Action unit, as while it cant shoot it still gets -1 when attacked so its a little tougher to kill than a second KBB.

my guess would be he used it to block off / camp on objectives. -1 to hit and that mad max strat allowing the wagon to ignore/negate a wounding hit, makes it annoying to remove. especially since its weapons are only really 'effective' against chaff


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HAHAHAHA

DEFFKILLA WARTRIKE [125] 2nd Relic (- 1 CP) da Fixer Upper

lulz

I'm starting to reconsider the Snakebites.

1 Power Klaw nob, backed by 9 Sluggaboys and 20 Shootaboys, is 220 pts. Take one of those per 500 pts of game.

Take a KFF Big Mek, who can protect two units who, in turn, keep him safe.

At 2000, that gives you two "horns" that are 60 wounds with a 5+ invulnerable, 6+ Feel No Pain, enough dakka to keep things at arms' length, but enough close combat that you don't want to charge 'em, and use these to take and hold objectives. They're not Spare Marine tough, but you're going to have to *work* to dislodge that many 5++/6+++ wounds, and it still leaves 1120 (minus the two KFF Big Meks) for the killy stuff. Toss a Deff Dread and the Warboss into one, two Deff Dreads into the other, you *still* have a decent number of points for other stuff.

True, the Snakebites aren't the best force around, but just being so darn *stubborn* can get things done, I think.

Still TheoryHammer at this stage since no game store's playing locally due to Covid, but.

I dunno, if you're going to be bubbling up with Ork boyz then why not just take a painboy instead and keep a better clan kultur? Keepin' 60 boyz wholly within a KFF bubble is not fun BTW and will severely hamper movement

wouldnt it just be 'better' to run deathskullz and a painboy instead? thats a 6++, 6+++
it spares you to waste the HQ slots and doesnt mess around with the rest of the army, put in a rokkit and you also got a rerollable anti tank annoyance on top

RedNoak wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
A snazzwagon?
That baffles me more than being the top.

The only thing i could conceivably see a snazzwagon for is since that is a 100% solid vehicle list it was probably his dedicated Action unit, as while it cant shoot it still gets -1 when attacked so its a little tougher to kill than a second KBB.

my guess would be he used it to block off / camp on objectives. -1 to hit and that mad max strat allowing the wagon to ignore/negate a wounding hit, makes it annoying to remove. especially since its weapons are only really 'effective' against chaff


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HAHAHAHA

DEFFKILLA WARTRIKE [125] 2nd Relic (- 1 CP) da Fixer Upper

lulz

You know what? I don't hate it.

He can heal himself d3 wounds, and everything in the army is basically an 8+ wound vehicle. Unbracketing a bonebreaker or topping off a hurt buggy might make a difference more than a personal FNP or something.

What I'm surprised about is taking that over Gork's roar. That extra range just seems like a game changer. 8" is not great, bob. 12" isn't either, but it helps.

But 10 warbikers and a snazz wagon... what a strange army overall. Hell, I'd rather take 3 KBB if he was using those as screens, unless he literally just wanted like 30 choppa attacks on a counter charge? Heck, just put some stuff IN your bonebreakers. 5-6 nobs is way cheaper with double choppa.

RedNoak wrote:
Yeah that was faq'd

Naah saga faq mentions nothing. No need as　saga says it's modifier　to roll. I checked that first thing as people incorrectly said it modifies character giving me cold shivers


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Wakshaani wrote:
I'm starting to reconsider the Snakebites.

1 Power Klaw nob, backed by 9 Sluggaboys and 20 Shootaboys, is 220 pts. Take one of those per 500 pts of game.

.

Uh. 1 nob, 29 orks　is 30 models. 8 points　a piece 240. How you get220 with power klaw?

I have found an interesting use for footnobz as a filler oddly enough.

Nauts have a capacity of 6, and really nothing ever goes in there as not much can even fit and they cant shoot.
If you dont have another buggy to add to a list but have a naut, add 5 nobz. Even with just choppachoppa thats a lot of attacks for cheap that if you cant bring another KBB or MekGunz you might as well toss in there.
Surprised the hell out of my opponent when i did that as he sent cultists to try and tie it up and surprise meatblender pops out lol.

Relatively weak argument for regular nobz but if youre like me and dont have a gakton of mekguns because you refuse to shell out 50USD for ONE MEK GUN its a good option lol. Especially since in this edition so far i keep ending at 1900ish points and trying to figure out what to do with that last ~100, and i ran out of buggies to add.

tulun wrote:
He can heal himself d3 wounds, and everything in the army is basically an 8+ wound vehicle. Unbracketing a bonebreaker or topping off a hurt buggy might make a difference more than a personal FNP or something.

What I'm surprised about is taking that over Gork's roar. That extra range just seems like a game changer. 8" is not great, bob. 12" isn't either, but it helps.

It can just take both.

I wouldn't read too much into the specifics of his, keep in mind that many people simply won't attend such events in the current time and that people are still testing the waters around the new missions.

 Jidmah wrote:

tulun wrote:
He can heal himself d3 wounds, and everything in the army is basically an 8+ wound vehicle. Unbracketing a bonebreaker or topping off a hurt buggy might make a difference more than a personal FNP or something.

What I'm surprised about is taking that over Gork's roar. That extra range just seems like a game changer. 8" is not great, bob. 12" isn't either, but it helps.

It can just take both.

I wouldn't read too much into the specifics of his, keep in mind that many people simply won't attend such events in the current time and that people are still testing the waters around the new missions.

Oh yeah I know. I just wonder if he didn’t wanna go below 6 CP.

I agree. I’ll be more convinced with more results. This seems unoptimized and I bet could be improved it holds any weight.

To be fair, a pure vehicle list uses a lot less CP than you'd think.
Most of the CP is spent on infantry models, as aside from Ramming Speed or Kustom Jobz there...kinda isnt any that vehicles can even use anyway.
6cp to start isnt too bad in that case.
They can use the deathskullz strat iirc, though i generally forget that one even exists.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
To be fair, a pure vehicle list uses a lot less CP than you'd think.
Most of the CP is spent on infantry models, as aside from Ramming Speed or Kustom Jobz there...kinda isnt any that vehicles can even use anyway.
6cp to start isnt too bad in that case.
They can use the deathskullz strat iirc, though i generally forget that one even exists.

Yeah, I agree. I generally don't mind spending 6-7 CP pre game.

It could be he wanted enough CP to tellyporta one or two units (the bonebreakers?) in a pinch, depending on match up, for some nasty charges with ramming speed.

Wreckers on the Mork seems pretty solid, although none here.

In regards to the snazz wagon and actions, which of these can it perform? I thought it was mostly infantry that do them.

Some you dont need to be an infantry, but i think theyre limited to specific missions.
The mission where you can scan objectives for instance doesnt mention it has to be an infantry and the core Action rule does not mention it either. Meanwhile, raising a Banner for example does mention Infantry.
The core action rule only excludes Aircrafts from doing it and mentions characters' auras shut down as well.

Theres also simply holding the objective of course.

tneva82 wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
Yeah that was faq'd

Naah saga faq mentions nothing. No need as　saga says it's modifier　to roll. I checked that first thing as people incorrectly said it modifies character giving me cold shivers


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wakshaani wrote:
I'm starting to reconsider the Snakebites.

1 Power Klaw nob, backed by 9 Sluggaboys and 20 Shootaboys, is 220 pts. Take one of those per 500 pts of game.

.

Uh. 1 nob, 29 orks　is 30 models. 8 points　a piece 240. How you get220 with power klaw?

Because I forgot that they weren't 7 each anymore. D'oh.

That list is screaming "WITNESS" all over the place.

It really is a brand new world...

I've read through the last few pages and I'm still trying to wrap my head around Ghazghkull Thraka and make my mind up. I want him to be good and Im ready to talk myself into corner that goffs are actually one of the better factions now.

- When he was spoiled in 8th Saga of the Beast he seemed cool, but didn't really play well with what 8th missions or existing Ork army lists were trying to achieve and probably ended up on the expensive side.

- In 9th he seems to play much better to the tempo of the game, everyone is slugging over midfield objectives. The turn limit coming down to 5 should help him reach nigh invincibility status against armies that only fight in one phase with medi painboy support (Tau lol?). Ghaz is also one of better answers to countering some of the deathstar units in 40k, he's one of the few units that can stand his ground against a unit of wulfen/custode allarus/BA honour guard/etc coming straight at him and deliver as much punishment back as he gets. Due to the unfortunate melee fighting in depth nerfs, much fewer Ork boyz can make it into melee engagement. This has had preserve effect of making Goff Skarboyz with Ghaz near by much better that other factions boyz, since very few of them need to make it into melee to ruin someones day.

- With FAQS now dropping stating his aura effects him and he can now advance & charge it seems his main glaring weakness, how to get him into combat, has been partially addressed. It seems plausible therefor you want him in list with

Ghaz
KFF & Painboy support
~ 90 goff boyz/skarboyz.
Obligatory 1 burna bomma found in every Ork list.

The question then becomes what to do about the rest of the list. Clearly it lacks firepower support and backfield objective holders. Smasha guns for days? Some Ork Kommandos to nab objectives?

Has anyone got any experience and games in with Ghaz?

Asymmetric wrote:

Due to the unfortunate melee fighting in depth nerfs, much fewer Ork boyz can make it into melee engagement. This has had preserve effect of making Goff Skarboyz with Ghaz near by much better that other factions boyz, since very few of them need to make it into melee to ruin someones day.

I've had good results with Deathskullz mobs buffed by Warpath and Maniacal Seizures. Goffs with Ghaz get exploding 6s, +1A, possibly +1S and re-rolling 1s, those Deathskullz get +1A, -1AP, a couple of re-rolls for the nob's Killsaw plus some defensive buffs like the 6++ and possibly -1 to hit from a unit that suffered Maniacal Seizures. Not bad IMHO, considering that the Deathskullz combo is way cheaper than the Goffs one. Sure Ghaz is a monster (litterally, lol) but a Warboss with Killa Klaw and Da Biggest Boss and Mad Dok can wreck stuff as well and they are also 127 points cheaper than the Goffs' leader. Not to mention that Ghaz will likely also have Makari and/or a Painboy with him.

 Blackie wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:

Due to the unfortunate melee fighting in depth nerfs, much fewer Ork boyz can make it into melee engagement. This has had preserve effect of making Goff Skarboyz with Ghaz near by much better that other factions boyz, since very few of them need to make it into melee to ruin someones day.

I've had good results with Deathskullz mobs buffed by Warpath and Maniacal Seizures. Goffs with Ghaz get exploding 6s, +1A, possibly +1S and re-rolling 1s, those Deathskullz get +1A, -1AP, a couple of re-rolls for the nob's Killsaw plus some defensive buffs like the 6++ and possibly -1 to hit from a unit that suffered Maniacal Seizures. Not bad IMHO, considering that the Deathskullz combo is way cheaper than the Goffs one. Sure Ghaz is a monster (litterally, lol) but a Warboss with Killa Klaw and Da Biggest Boss and Mad Dok can wreck stuff as well and they are also 127 points cheaper than the Goffs' leader. Not to mention that Ghaz will likely also have Makari and/or a Painboy with him.

Haven’t you had issue with them just getting shot off the board? Or do you mount them? Because man do boys die fast even with a 5++, 6+++

I actually really like “da fixer upperz” on the wartrike in that winning list. Especially since the wartrike is really a support character with some chaff clearing potential. Having the fixer upperz on him just reinforces the role of keeping him behind the other vehicles to help them get charges.

I'm surprised he didn't slap the Kustom Job Gorks Roar on there too. Just to let the watrike contribute a little more as he does his thing.

russellmoo wrote:
I actually really like “da fixer upperz” on the wartrike in that winning list. Especially since the wartrike is really a support character with some chaff clearing potential. Having the fixer upperz on him just reinforces the role of keeping him behind the other vehicles to help them get charges.

well thats why i lol'd

mean ol warboss on beefed up bike ...and he is an support char -.-
...'with chaff clearing potential' (good way of telling an ork he's a wimpy git)

Its really a bummer that the biker warboss is locked behind FW.. atleast he's in there at all... RESPECT TO FW TO DROP ZHARDSNARK and replacing him with our regular boss on bike




Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
I'm surprised he didn't slap the Kustom Job Gorks Roar on there too. Just to let the watrike contribute a little more as he does his thing.

i guess you dont wanna be temped to throw him away... he isnt that durable

Jidmah wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
- Calling the KMK a "budget smasha gun" seems odd as it's more expensive. That KMK is upgunned to a fault IMO as it turns it into too much of a glass cannon, although the lower range isn't as much of a negative anymore.

Budget in a way of spending actual money. Six KMK have a similar performance to 12 smashas, but only cost half as much when buying them.

Otherwise, valid points. Especially nob bikers seemed off when I left them in red.

I did some maths on it a while ago and CBF doing it again but I remember coming to the conclusion that you could in fact swap KMK's with smashas (after CA19) and expect the same amount of damage. The Smashas came out ahead for raw defensiveness in wounds however. Back then the smasha was 33 points and the KMK was 60 points so you were . The smasha now costs 40 points and the KMK now costs 65 points. So before you could get 18 smasha guns for approximately the price of 10 KMK's, now its 16 smasha guns for the price of 10 KMK's. So if my memory holds up, that would put KMK's ahead in point efficiency for damage and in IRL costs. Smashas still come ahead for defensiveness, obviously, but some of us have to accept reality when fielding these models.

tulun wrote:Sniff.

It’s beautiful.

Orks first place.

https://www.40kstats.com/adelaidegt

Not only a good result but also that list looks fun to play! I'm curious about the mix of buggies outside of the scrapjets but I am also suspecting it was due to model limitations.
I'm a bit confused on the note about CP spent on OUTRIDERS, does anyone know what that is? I can't seem to find it in my Codex or Saga of the Beast.

Do you not get the CP back if you have your warlord in an outrider detachment perhaps? If he also won while having 3 CP less than his opponent that means he did pretty well for himself.

Also time costs. It's a lot faster to roll the wound rolls for the KMK than the same number of SG.

 Quackzo wrote:
Not only a good result but also that list looks fun to play! I'm curious about the mix of buggies outside of the scrapjets but I am also suspecting it was due to model limitations.
I'm a bit confused on the note about CP spent on OUTRIDERS, does anyone know what that is? I can't seem to find it in my Codex or Saga of the Beast.

oh nono

he just took an outrider detachment instead of a patrol or bat. I would guess to fit in all the fast attackers and to skimp on the troop tax

EDIT:
also funny... he didnt spent any CP on those buggys... i would've expected at least a korkscrew upgrade for one those three sets of jets

RedNoak wrote:

 Quackzo wrote:
Not only a good result but also that list looks fun to play! I'm curious about the mix of buggies outside of the scrapjets but I am also suspecting it was due to model limitations.
I'm a bit confused on the note about CP spent on OUTRIDERS, does anyone know what that is? I can't seem to find it in my Codex or Saga of the Beast.

oh nono

he just took an outrider detachment instead of a patrol or bat. I would guess to fit in all the fast attackers and to skimp on the troop tax

EDIT:
also funny... he didnt spent any CP on those buggys... i would've expected at least a korkscrew upgrade for one those three sets of jets

I completely forgot the name of the detachment whoops. Here I was thinking we had some sleeper stratagem I was unaware of.