We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics

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**Tomsug**

zoltan88 wrote:

Furthermore, every winning list having 12-18 smasha gunz just drives home the likelihood that they will get nerfed with the next codex. Probably reduce unit size to 2 per or something along those lines.

Let it be the answer to the discussion, whether KMK will be better in 9th than SMG or vice versa

**Blackie**

DS dreads with KMB and +1BS aren't really that different from buggies, basically same stats, same points cost, similar but probably better damage output since they can really fight. Slower but with many armored models that's not an issue, we don't need to throw everything in the opponent's face turn 1 or 2 anyway.

As long as elite oriented lists remain popular burna bombers will always be a solid option.

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zoltan88 wrote:

Furthermore, every winning list having 12-18 smasha gunz just drives home the likelihood that they will get nerfed with the next codex. Probably reduce unit size to 2 per or something along those lines.

Old artillery was 1-3 models per unit. Worst case scenario we would probably run 9 mek gunz at most, which is still a lot of mek gunz.

I'd really love a total rewrite on them though. 50$ models can't cost 40-65 points, I wish they make 100-150 ppm but totally worthy of that points cost.

**cody.d.**

zoltan88 wrote:
Tomsug wrote:
zoltan88 wrote:

Deff Dreads won a tourney?!?!

I say it all the time - ork army is full of options and wonderful unexpected new combinations

Honestly, both lists are pretty much different from we saw before. They stink by TTS, I saw some deffdreads in alpha league videos and just the madman tries to move 3x30boyz in TTS in to the area terrain with more floors

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some bloke wrote:

We also had the option for a SAG mek on a warbike. Warbikes gave relentless so he could move and shoot an ordnance weapon, in a time where you couldn't move and shoot heavy weapons. I made a really cool model for that, sadly we lost the option before it saw the paintbrush.

Yeah! I' ve almost started the construction of 3 SAGbikes to ad them to my 3 regular SAGs and play 6 of them in one game! Like 2 years ago? Sweet memories.

Furthermore, every winning list having 12-18 smasha gunz just drives home the likelihood that they will get nerfed with the next codex. Probably reduce unit size to 2 per or something along those lines.

Don't forget the FW mekboy Junka. A tank that let you take a SAG as well.

**SemperMortis**

I'd love to see a break down of their opponents.

**Tomsug**

Blackie wrote:

I'd really love a total rewrite on them though. 50$ models can't cost 40-65 points, I wish they make 100-150 ppm but totally worthy of that points cost.

I prefere the sale to 15$ honestly

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cody.d. wrote:

Don't forget the FW mekboy Junka. A tank that let you take a SAG as well.

I'm too short in the hobby unfortunately

**deffrekka**

Blackie wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Wait.

We used to have a waaaagh! banner on a bike?

Thats amazing!

Prior 8th edition banner nob was not a character, just a possible loadout for a single guy in a nobz squad. In the 5th edition codex (that one released at the end of 4th) the painboy wasn't a character either, but just an option for a nobz squad. So in conclusion both painboy and waaagh banner were possible options for nobz squads. And warbikes were just equipment for nobz squads.

In 5th edition Nobz were extremely powerful. Typically 5 man squads, including a painboy to provide cybork bodies, a banner dude and a couple of power klaws at least. All on bikes or riding into a Battlewagon.

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deffrekka wrote:

That all changed come 9th edition, we already lost access to a 5++ (real painful on our Warbosses)...

We gained a 4++ for our Warboss that we never had before though.

Whilst true (granted we did have access to a 4++, it just Clan locked) that we gained Da Biggest Boss, that doesnt mean it stays around come the new Codex and whilst a 4++ is good, thats strictly on 1 model. The rest of your characters are running around with a 4+ or 6+ save at best with no access to invuns in melee unless your a Badmoon Warlord or Deathskulls but a 6+++ will rarely save you as it is. Even Imperial Guard Lord Commissars and Company Commanders kept their 5++. Gaining access to one 4++ for a single Warboss doesnt replace the lose of a 5++ to numerous other characters and Nobz.

Most characters in the game have some sort of invun barring a few, Orks tend to be the exception. Ghazghkull and Badrukk are the only 2 characters in our army that has one outside of the Saga of the Beast strat.

**Jidmah**

To be fair, the 5++ went away when 7th nerfed cybork into the ground. That codex was by far the worst one ever released for orks, only to be outdone by a supplement that was so gakky that printing 120 pages each containing nothing but "Dear Ork player, feth you, we hope you die." would have been less offensive.

**Beardedragon**

Jidmah wrote:
To be fair, the 5++ went away when 7th nerfed cybork into the ground. That codex was by far the worst one ever released for orks, only to be outdone by a supplement that was so gakky that printing 120 pages each containing nothing but "Dear Ork player, feth you, we hope you die." would have been less offensive.

**Tomsug**

WARPhammer Championship 2021 (120 players TTS)

Ork in final vs Harlequins

final will be available in 4 days for example here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ezhGxqHlMG4&feature=youtu.be

3x KMB Deff Dreads and 2x Kannonwagen!

This is the list

Spoiler:

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This is list is something different than the last two. He has almost no small infantry units etc. No kommandos. Just heavy shooting in vehicles + one blob of boyz and small trukkMANz

**Vineheart01**

Yeah, kannonwagons are dope now that the big gun hits on 4s and they cost a little less.
Loss of T8 stinks but not really all that important since most things that shoot that far is S9+ anyway outside of battlecannons.

**Grimskul**

Jidmah wrote:
To be fair, the 5++ went away when 7th nerfed cybork into the ground. That codex was by far the worst one ever released for orks, only to be outdone by a supplement that was so gakky that printing 120 pages each containing nothing but "Dear Ork player, feth you, we hope you die." would have been less offensive.

They even had the gall to release the WAAAAGH! Ghazzy supplement TWICE, and it was arguably worse since it took out the Green Tide formation. Man, 7th ed was a rough time for Orks.

**cody.d.**

Yeah, the formation system was a bit of a letdown for orks. Some of the Decurion type detachments were broken as hell. All we got was impact hits (s3 ones at that) if a unit fulfilled a couple conditions when charging. Most of our formations sucked squigs as well. Furious charge on the nuats when you had three. Remember that strength capped at 10 so it was hilariously useless on them.

**Grimskul**

cody.d. wrote:
Yeah, the formation system was a bit of a letdown for orks. Some of the Decurion type detachments were broken as hell. All we got was impact hits (s3 ones at that) if a unit fulfilled a couple conditions when charging. Most of our formations sucked squigs as well. Furious charge on the nuats when you had three. Remember that strength capped at 10 so it was hilariously useless on them.

It was DEFINITELY not optimized for us. Versus what it gave to Necrons, Eldar, and SM, we were absolutely left behind in the dust. All we really had was what our base book gave us like the Lucky Stikk Mega Armoured Warboss, a Biker horde with KFF and Painboy support, and the brokenly worded kustom stompa with bursta kannons so we could actually bring out the D weaponry that could somewhat level the playing field for us.

**cody.d.**

If I recall correctly the bursta kannon was like, s8 ap2 (back when that ignored termie armour) and a RADIUS of 3D6 right? I'm not sure if they ever confirmed how that worked with placing the template. Since before scattering you couldn't place the template over your own models. And a potential 36" wide template would cover a lotta that board.

**Grimskul**

cody.d. wrote:
If I recall correctly the bursta kannon was like, s8 ap2 (back when that ignored termie armour) and a RADIUS of 3D6 right? I'm not sure if they ever confirmed how that worked with placing the template. Since before scattering you couldn't place the template over your own models. And a potential 36" wide template would cover a lotta that board.

I believe you're referring to the belly gun. The bursta kannon was a 7" pie plate that was Strength D AP2.

**Jidmah**

cody.d. wrote:
Yeah, the formation system was a bit of a letdown for orks. Some of the Decurion type detachments were broken as hell. All we got was impact hits (s3 ones at that) if a unit fulfilled a couple conditions when charging. Most of our formations sucked squigs as well. Furious charge on the nuats when you had three. Remember that strength capped at 10 so it was hilariously useless on them.

Let's also not forget that our "decurion" forced us into the Waaagh! Ghazghkull rules which were flat nerfs. You had to accept challenges (= nobz auto-kill themselves) and mob rule was worse for units with less than 10 models. But yay, you got hammer of wrath when you rolled 10 or higher on your charge!

And let's not forget the formation that forced you to deep strike 31 storm boyz, the flash gits formation which forced you to roll every single flash git one by one and the formation which gave Thrakka three warlord trait rolls on a table with 5 of those warlord traits completely useless to him. It's blatantly obvious that the supplement wasn't playtested even once and that they simply didn't give a gak about it. Not to mention that for every single formation, orks had to bring more models that you possibly field under the old rules. They were just trying to con ork players in buying more models.
The only luck was that this incompetence cut both ways so they had at least two or three formation which weren't total gak.

**Bonde**

Would it ever make sense to take a Meka Dread w. Klaw and Killkannon in a vehicle heavy list with two Battlewagons and a Gunwagon w. Da Boomer, instead of a Kannonwagon for example?

My thinking is that the Meka Dread will find a place futher up the table and try to clear objectives, and can on occation repair a damaged Battlewagon or Buggy.

A Kannonwagon would not be able to fight effectively in close combat, so it would have to stay further back, and I already have a Boomer-wagon.

**PiñaColada**

I personally find the meka dread a lot less appealing than the mega dread, a single killkannon just isn't all that impressive IMO. And the dual kannon build removes all CC capabilities so that's probably less enticing.

2 battlewagon and a gunwagon plus the meka dread means you're already looking at either 2 detachments or a spearhead (I guess a brigade would also work) and I don't think it's worth that barrier of entry. However if that's the way you're leaning even without specifically needing the meka dread then it's a decent enough choice I suppose. I would rather find some points elsewhere and do a mega dread and a mek gun. Or use 2 or even 3 deff dreads buffed with a kustom job.

Both the FW dreads are decent as distraction carnifexes but I think it's a little easier to get good mileage out of the mega variant, just because those extra attacks makes it quite scary in CC and actually has to be dealt with.

**Tomsug**

Kannonwagon has 2D6 4+ 8/-2/3 blast 60” = 3,5 hits of 8/-2/3 on 12” moving platform with unlimited range. Plus some bigshootas all-in-one 170p. That is pretty cool.

Meka Dread for almost the same price (175p) moves just 8” with degradation and his shooting is 24” D6 /-2/2 blast with just 24” range. It' s just 1,75 hits with 1/3 lower damage. With the bolter range. It' s significantly lower shooting. It' s in fact pretty bad shooting. What is totaly wrong imho is the fact, that his kannon is blast. So he can' t shoot in the cc. So you have a slow platform that shoots pretty bad and can' t use one of his 2 weapons in cc. And he has no way how to deal with mass of low W models. His klaw damage is D3+3.

If you compare it with Deffdread with Sparkli bitz, it' s A4 8/-3/D6 4+ shooting for 95p. For similar price like Meka Dread, you have 2 of them = 2xA4 on 4+ = 4 hits before rerolls and dakkadakka etc. With much more better gun on 2 independent platforms with the same T, same total number of W, same save, just slower BUT without degradation, so we can call it equal movement... DD has no CC but all his weapons can fire in CC.

If you want to speak about CC heavy cleaner, BW with deffrolla has in fact with deathskull reroll 6 hits 9/-2/2 vs. aprox 3 hits 14/-3/D3+3. Well, MekaDread seems to be better there, but with all the all kinds of infantry on the table and all these invu around, MD can be easilly uneffective.

BW with deffrola plays a different role in the game of course, but what I want to say is, that Meka Dread does not have much impressive stats now...

**Bonde**

I see your points.

So the Meka dread is a jack of all trades, master of none, because Orks have better heavy support units, be it for CC or shooting.

The requirement for bringing an additional detatchment (or a brigade tax), is an additional tax on an already mediocre unit.

If I intend to bring a spearhead, it should probably be for more worthwhile units, such as a Mork or a couple of Deff Dreads.

Perhaps I can just use my Meka Dread as Morkanought, I guess they are roughly similar in size and looks.

**Vineheart01**

Yeah realistically theres no reason to field a meka dread over a kannonwagon except for cool points (walkers win over tanks imo)
Better range, better damage, some extra bigshoota guns, meka maybe sliiiiiightly more durable but the sheer range of the supakannon offsets that.
(iirc for some reason the kannonwagon lacks ramshackle)

**PiñaColada**

I mean, if you already have the model and like the model then I'd try it out a couple of games. It does have a little more versatility than a kannonwagon so there's some upside. It's a cool fluffy unit that by no means is bad IMO. Overall though, it's just one of those units that has a few options in the codex/IA that are actually quite good.

**Vineheart01**

No its definitely not bad its just funny that the kannonwagon is the same slot, like 5pt difference, and superior gun lol.

I mean, you could go 1 gun 1 klaw so you actually have melee but at that point just go megadread....a single killkannon even hitting on 4s isnt that great.

**Grimskul**

Yeah, they would have to significantly buff the killkannon in the new codex for the meka dred to be worth considering over the kannonwagon. Who knows? That might happen. I'm just hoping there's some kustom jobz that apply to the WALKERZ keyword rather than specific units so that way FW units can get some love when we get the new book.

**Beardedragon**

Yea the Meka Dread is somewhat useless. Its entire selling point is the repair ability which is probably not why you would go for this thing.

And maybe its +4 BS.

If you go for double kill kannons = might as well go kannon wagon.

If you go for double CC weapons = Might as well go Mega Dread.

If you go for one kill kannon and one CC weapon then its probably the only thing that makes sense, but even then, as someone said, jack of all trades but master of none. If the Meka dread actually retained its KFF it would be a different story.
Being a little bit good at CC, and being able to shoot a little too, sounds like a bad deal to me. Id rather go all in on one or the other in this case. You also cant fire your kill kannon in CC if you ever run in to CC as its a blast weapon so you could effectively take away that arm if you go in to CC.

The Mega Dread is a solid unit though, and it even has build in "flamethrowers" as well as a mini ramming speed. That unit has things going for it, the Meka dread having its "repair" ability going for it isnt good at all, and its BS of 4 also isnt that appealing when you can just buy a kannon wagon. The Meka dread shouldnt have lost the damn KFF. to me that was the only reason it would compete against a Mega Dread. Now i fail to see a competition between the two.

**Bonde**

FW could at least have given the Meka Dread some kind of "force field generator" to give itself a 5+ invuln to make up for the loss of the KFF.
It has so many bitz and pieces strapped onto it that could represent some "kustom sparkly gubbin". That or it could have retained the extra attacks for the repair klaws, welder and drill bit.
I couldn't imagine a resourceful Mek NOT using those featues in close combat!

**cody.d.**

I wonder if it's too wishful to imagine that we may get a sort of cryptek treatment. Different meks with different specliazations. It would give them an excuse to sell us a few unique or multipart mek models. Zog knows i'd buy em up. Sides that i'm honestly not sure what they could release for orks. Some super heavy infantry?

**PiñaColada**

I still think we're getting new kommandos and tankbustas, I don't know if the new ork model we've seen teased is a kommando but I wouldn't be surprised if he was. We also have a bunch of rumour engines which makes me lean the way of those two new kits.

Honestly, if they just buff the killkannon to be flat 6 shots instead of d6 then that would mean it loses the blast rule and suddenly becomes far more potent both at range and on a dual purpose platform, such as the meka dread.

**Jidmah**

cody.d. wrote:
I wonder if it's too wishful to imagine that we may get a sort of cryptek treatment. Different meks with different specliazations. It would give them an excuse to sell us a few unique or multipart mek models. Zog knows i'd buy em up. Sides that i'm honestly not sure what they could release for orks. Some super heavy infantry?

They could start with giving the mini mek rules that doesn't make it a joke to bring.

**Vineheart01**

it would make more sense to have specialized bosses before meks.

Meks just try to build da biggest vehicle they can. Bosses would have a favored taktik they have adapted to in order to achieve Boss level.