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MANz can’t use Loot It.

 JNAProductions wrote:
MANz can’t use Loot It.

Why not? The minimum save is 2+ of course. If I remeber right, you can use +1 save againts AP, so you still have 2+ againts ap -1. There was some FAQ like this,

Or do I remeber it wrong?

“Improve the Save characteristic of that infantry unit by 1 (e.g. a Save characteristic of 6+ will become a Save characteristic of 5+), to a maximum of 2+” so you' re right, I play it wrong. Oups..

 Tomsug wrote:
So next new ork wave is Snakebites? Well.... If I had liked to model some fantasy, I would play AoS.

After discussion here about different wagons, I' ve gave a try to them.

I run a list with usual mix of buggies and kommandos + deffrola Battlewagon (4 manz and 10grots inside), Gunwagon with ZagZap (10 boyz and kff mek inside) and Kannonwagon.

Jidmah, you were right. ZagZap is very decent. Last game was againts Tau with tones of -1to hit huge drons and ZagZap was exactly the solution.

MANz with Loot it and Grots standing in front of them works also great. Super hard to kill. If you describe well how grot shield works in advance, most of the people shoot at grots first. So grots protect the MANz and you don' t have to waste the CP for the real grotshield

Ninja'ed by JNAProductions.

The pregame upgrade stuff for Archons, Succubi, and Haemonculi gives me a lot of hope for what they'll do for Ork leadership, they'll probably call it a Council of WAAAGH! and let you upgrade a Warboss to be a Warlord/Biggest Boss with his corresponding special ability/stat boost as well as bespoke WL trait and relic, followed by our Big Mek becoming a Mek Boss, and our Painboy becoming either a Mad Dok or Painboss.

With the way you can upgrade units into Bloodbrides and Trueborn, I can see them doing the same for Ardboyz (probably instead of a unit cap, maybe one upgrade per detachment?). I can even see the Bully Boyz making a comeback this way, with them being a Meganobz retinue option for a Biggest Boss or Ghazzy, getting +1WS and an extra attack.

I think the upgrades for biggest boss, cleverest boss and weirdboy will just become points upgrades. Doc is not an HQ, but a support character so it's unlikely that they would work in a similar way.

Bully boyz seems likely, considering that one of the WD goff sheets also does something similar.

It's also a given that kustom job will cost points in future, though I hope they manage to balance that properly.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if hit em harder becomes a bespoke rule. Either for meganobs in general or for the bullyboyz upgraded meganobz. It just seems too easy and straightforward. Exactly what GW would do. Also, kidna makes sense. An ork in a powered suit of armour would hit harder with a killsaw than one out of said armour would.

 some bloke wrote:
I'm hoping that this is instead them making big shootas a lot better! otherwise there's no way 2 big shootas = 2 rokkits.

Possibly they will upgrade them similar to the heavy bolter treatment...sadly I doubt it will be worth as much. Atm a heavy bolter is 10pts on a model with BS3 It is 3 shots at S5 AP-1 and 2 Damage.

if they upgrade Big shootas to be Flat 2 dmg they will still be garbage, if they give it AP-1 and 2 dmg it will be worth 5pts on a BS5 model.

2 Big shootas at 5pts each with S5 Ap-1 and 2dmg equals literally the same as a heavy bolter in the hands of a Space Marine at BS3 In fact, the price point between the two is fairly equal with the 2 boyz costing 16pts and the 1 Space Marine costing 18. All we can do is wait and see.

I don' t want the changes. I' m happy now. There is so much more to try...

And I' m sad from Snakebites era. I hoped the walkers Killkans / Deffdreads / Mega Dreads era will come. Or anything more 40k. I don' t want to paint the spears...

Snakebites are the focus for the new toys but doesnt mean they wont buff up walkers.

Remember, FW added the WALKERZ keyword to everything which currently does absolutely zilch.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Snakebites are the focus for the new toys but doesnt mean they wont buff up walkers.

Remember, FW added the WALKERZ keyword to everything which currently does absolutely zilch.

Yeah, that' s what makes me hope..

On other side, I have unfinished projects on the table for a year at least, so I can simply skip this phase and wait for another

Walkers are close to being viable they get fixed by allowing kans to have clan traits, price drops, and I’m super glad that the ork codex is coming out Immediately after this editions mid rules change... armies of renown is a great way to fix kans by stacking extra rules to help them.

Every edition tends to have a mid edition codex additional rules change that adds to the power creep.. most non space marine armies tend to get left out because they have thier new codex.

Yeah they dont reallyh need to do much to make all the ork walkers awesome.
Deffdreads getting the -1 damage is probably expected and would be substantial (with 8w and a cheap-ish cost, bulk of what hit them was 2-3D guns so big difference there)
Killakanz need kulture perks and strat access, they of all the gretchin should be allowed (though i'd be happier to see that restriction gone entirely). Doubt they'd get the -1 damage but they could get a 6++ or something else minor to help durability.
Nauts really just need a slight price drop, their stats are awesome as is just a tad pricy.

Stompa will never be good

I would like to see point cut for warbikers and maybe a clan trait (evil sunz) to give them obsec.
I would love to have playable greenskin motorcycle gang.

I' ve played another few games with my wagon lists and Jidmah - hey - Zagzap is really interesting and great! Unbelievable level of reliability!

In compare, Kannonwagon is really the trick or treat...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah they dont reallyh need to do much to make all the ork walkers awesome.
Deffdreads getting the -1 damage is probably expected and would be substantial (with 8w and a cheap-ish cost, bulk of what hit them was 2-3D guns so big difference there)
Killakanz need kulture perks and strat access, they of all the gretchin should be allowed (though i'd be happier to see that restriction gone entirely). Doubt they'd get the -1 damage but they could get a 6++ or something else minor to help durability.
Nauts really just need a slight price drop, their stats are awesome as is just a tad pricy.

Stompa will never be good

I have doubts that dreads will get a -1 damage rule. Much more likely that ramshackle will be ported over to most if not all ork vehicles. Less reliable but potentially more powerful when a damage 8 attack becomes a 1.

Warbikers should get -1 to hit
Dreads -1 to damage
Like others have said I’m not sure that’s happening

So my model most likely to be cut from codex and sent to legends....
- deffkoptas
-zagstrukk
Snikrot is close but his mold isn’t nearly as bad as zagstruk

I really feel like they won't get rid of Zagstruk, Snikrot, or Badrukk. All three still have very serviceable modern designs and even if they're in finecast I don't think they'll be getting rid of them that quickly. Mad Dok Grotsnik would be the most likely option given how tiny and old his model is currently, though I would love to see him properly updated.

 Tomsug wrote:
I' ve played another few games with my wagon lists and Jidmah - hey - Zagzap is really interesting and great! Unbelievable level of reliability!

In compare, Kannonwagon is really the trick or treat...

Glad to hear!

Sometimes it's just worth tossing all those underused units in an army and see how far they go

Oh, I do hope that this is a preclude to a whole bunch of squig-based stuff for the orks. I want to see dedicated transport squiggoths, and perhaps some gretchin-based squigs.

Based on GWs policy of "make a cool model and then stat it exactly as it is modeled", though, I am now expecting this squig rider to have an orks ballistic skill and a grots weapon skill...

 Grimskul wrote:
I really feel like they won't get rid of Zagstruk, Snikrot, or Badrukk. All three still have very serviceable modern designs and even if they're in finecast I don't think they'll be getting rid of them that quickly. Mad Dok Grotsnik would be the most likely option given how tiny and old his model is currently, though I would love to see him properly updated.

Badrukk looks terrible, model wise, but i do use him in my shooting armies. Hes not a bad unit, he has good stats i feel. I dont hope they remove him.

Furthermore for Zagstruk and Snikrot, i have both of them (unpainted tho) so i hope they will still be updated.

The video is pretty telling of what we can expect - GW doesn't bother with creating art for things they don't plan to sell anymore. A list of things in the video that don't have models:

. squig herd*
- Nob/boss wearing something that might be MA with big choppa and grot turret
- MAN with chainaxe*
- previewed fourlegged squig rider, with cyberboar and nob(?) with klaw option
- painboy with faceshield and squig-drip*
- squig-sled with rokkit, big shootas, kannon? and some boss with an ork on top that seems to have a mek-glyph for a boss pole
- two-legged squig rider with slugga
- nobz with unique armor, slugga and choppa (seems to be the model which has been partially reviewed last year)
- Warboss that looks like the AoS megaboss with shoulder-mounted squig turret and a sword-looking choppa.

*might just be artistic freedom and not be actual new models

 Jidmah wrote:

... - Warboss that looks like the AoS megaboss with shoulder-mounted squig turret and a sword-looking choppa...

Seems like all the AoS megaboss conversions we all have in our shelfs - because it' s a cool model - would have a datasheet

The only reason I think zagstruk might be removed is his official model is horribly miscast.. the model I got from Gw several years ago was so bad I had to carve out certain pieces and green stuff a lot just to remove all the resin that was wrong... snikrot and badrukk didn’t give me those issues. I’m also half assuming we get a named HQ since remaking named models is popular at gw.
I can’t see them removing all the named resin either.

That's just regular finecast troubles though. You essentially have a relatively high chance of running into those issue whenever you buy any finecast models that used to be metal.

Hmm.

looking over my Zagstruk model he dont seem to have any problems

 Tomsug wrote:
I don' t want the changes. I' m happy now. There is so much more to try...

And I' m sad from Snakebites era. I hoped the walkers Killkans / Deffdreads / Mega Dreads era will come. Or anything more 40k. I don' t want to paint the spears...

Tbh im the complete opposite. Squigs are a huge part of Orkoid warfare and we have been missing Squigs for so long. If the game can have Thunderwolf cav, Deathriders, Seekers, Serberys, etc why is an Ork riding a large Squig too far from 40k? Everything about Orks are engineered for warfare, Squigs are your low-tech equivalent of bikes, vehicles and other weapons of war that are widely available which also doesnt have a huge logistical cost behind it. Orks are the perfect species when it comes to fighting, their use of Squigs and the many kinds they have is utterly alien and interesting.

For so long ive been wanting Squigs to be more fleshed out for 40k. Nobz enforcers with Attack Squigs, Squig Herd, smaller Squiggoths that are more like Knarloc riders. I dont think they look out of place in 40k, people have been using Brutes. Megabosses and Ard Boyz in 40k for ages. If you dont want to paint spears, give them Big Choppas, or Power Stabbas... Glue a Slugga and some Stikkbombs to them, give them some traditional Orky armour, do a head swap. Personally what has been teased is perfect (except maybe the Warboss at the end, he looks too over the top in my eyes).

We already kind of had the era of Kan walls and Dreadmobs, just like we had the era of Nob Bikers and Greentide. I think the new Codex will improve a lot of our units and I think we will receive some fundamental changes (like Waaagh! becoming more of an army wide thing, like how now Dark Eldar can all advance and charge turn 2) that will bring most of the aspects of Orky warfare up to 9th edition standards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
The only reason I think zagstruk might be removed is his official model is horribly miscast.. the model I got from Gw several years ago was so bad I had to carve out certain pieces and green stuff a lot just to remove all the resin that was wrong... snikrot and badrukk didn’t give me those issues. I’m also half assuming we get a named HQ since remaking named models is popular at gw.
I can’t see them removing all the named resin either.

My Zagstrukk was fine when I got him all those years back. I havent really had any problems with finecast, Ive had more problems with Forgeworld Resin if anything. I think you just got an extra bad cast.

My zagstruk model was fine, probably one of the cleaner finecasts ive gotten.
Snikrot is pretty good too, he had a hole in his bicep somehow but thats easily fixed...the detailed parts was fine.
I dont own Badrukk since i think his model looks kinda goofy.

The only miniature I have ever purchased in finecast is the Weirdboy. It was cast cleanly, but it had a lot of supports and flash that had to be cleaned up. It came out looking very crisp, but it took quite a bit of time to prepare.

Have you ever bought resin tankbustas?

 Tomsug wrote:
Have you ever bought resin tankbustas?

Nope, mine are metal and I am very happy about that

 Bonde wrote:
The only miniature I have ever purchased in finecast is the Weirdboy. It was cast cleanly, but it had a lot of supports and flash that had to be cleaned up. It came out looking very crisp, but it took quite a bit of time to prepare.

My Thrakka had to be replaced four times till I had one that was damaged little enough to make fixing without modelling skills possible.

I went through a total of 7 KFF big meks and didn't find a single one which wasn't completely destroyed by bubbles. The model was completely incompatible with finecast, which is the reason why it's not longer available.

My weirdboy was so bent out of shape that it can't be properly assembled. It was the final straw that made me never buy a single finecast model ever again.

I now have metal versions of almost all ork finecast units except kommandoz. I just use boyz with a specific paintjob for them.