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Kebabcito wrote:
Want to try this as white scar

- Chaplain bike full cheated, 3x3 outriders flanking the enemies

- Captainwith 5 bladeguards, ancient, apothecary and judicar front line

- Lieutenant with 5 assault intercessors and 3 aggressors looking for objective

- 2x5 assault intercessors into some objectives too

- 2x3 erradicators trying to deal with tanks

- eliminators deployment zone objectives

what do you think? I'm going white scars

Against hordes I've got a lot of choppy guys and 3 aggresors. Against MEQ I'm white scars, I can crush marines at turn 3. Against R8 I'll suffer, but erradicatrs are still not nerfed...

This is the standard White Scars list that is popular right now, except most people do intercessors in the backfield because they're more durable than eliminators.

If you want to go full on netlist, you should replace your lieutenant with a Reiver Lieutenant with the Vox Espiritum and Rites of War warlord trait, and then add a chief apothecary.

Opponents who have faced your list before will know that, if they don't have the firepower to crack the central block of troops and characters (and most armies don't, especially if you use the apothecary), then they should focus on taking out your bikes, eradicators, and rear-area objective holders so that the giant troop/character block is limited to really only holding one objective at a time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also remember that in order to benefit from Look Out, Sir, the chaplain has to be within 3” of a unit of 3 models. If the only things near him are minsize outrider units, then your opponent can blow away a few outriders, then target the chaplain.

 Niiai wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
H all, don't know if this has been discussed, but I wonder is Droppod spam good again?

Now 9TH edition is mostly about mobility, catching objective and do actions. Meanwhile I heard that Droppod now allows you Null deploy once again, and Tactical Squad have 2W made them as tough as Intercessors. So is it a Droppod dominate list viable again?

Huh. I did not know Drop Pod bypassed the null deployment rule. I know it bypasses turn 1 reserves.

Anyway, I do not think it would be very good. Not knowing how many units you want to deploy the 70 points per drop pod is quite steep. Say 5 or 6 drop pods in your list, that is 350/420 points less that you get units for. Secondly, if your opponent want to be up and close to you then you are paying 420 points to do them a favour.

Space Wolfs, Black Templars or Ultramarines would potensially be good for this. I own 7 drop pods, so please tell me if it is good. :-)

In my experience it was a very unpatient way to suround your enemy and die fast. Back in 5th edition.

The issue with them was always they didn't have good things to transport. Now It can be 10 sterngard with combi flamers...10 devs with 8 MM. A combo of stern and devs...pretty nasty stuff. Stuff that will pretty much be assured to get it's points back if you put it in the right spot with the right targets. I think they will work well in combination with bikes...which are also good now. Use naked bikes to screen the devs/stern and also bring a few HQ bikers along too.

Hello friends, was just curious if an all Phobos army could do well. I want to make a small force of Raven Guard in Phobos with Shrike.

I think it could work, but you would need to work in some vehicles or something similar for support. Phobos are lacking in anti-tank and any heavy weaponary in general. Maybe some dreads?

However if you are just aiming for a small army(like 1k or less) then I wouldn’t worry about it too much, could work quite well.

Yeah it would be 1k. I was thinking something along these lines maybe?

HQ
- Shrike

TROOPS
- 5x Infiltrators
- 5x Infiltrators

ELITES
- 5x Vanguard Vets w/ Jump Packs, twin claws (converted to have Reiver legs and bodies)
- Invictor Warsuit w/ Autocannon

HEAVY SUPPORT
- 3x Eliminators w/ Las-Fusils

FLYER
- Stormtalon w/ 2x Heavy Bolters, 2x Assault Cannons

can't google the correct point cost for chief apothecary, is it 15 or 25? codex SM has two different, so has GW said which is correct?

They haven't. They've released no errata.

Xirax wrote:
can't google the correct point cost for chief apothecary, is it 15 or 25? codex SM has two different, so has GW said which is correct?

We don't know until we get the errata. Until then the consensus locally is to use the points in the back of the book.

So I'm recently getting back into 40k after about 6 years off. I was building a White Scars army and am looking to continue it. I've got some regular biker models that I never ended up building, I'm looking to see what guns I should put on them, like what's viable for them these days. Can anyone help out?

Vorkah wrote:
So I'm recently getting back into 40k after about 6 years off. I was building a White Scars army and am looking to continue it. I've got some regular biker models that I never ended up building, I'm looking to see what guns I should put on them, like what's viable for them these days. Can anyone help out?

I think about everything is viable, plasma and melta are both considered "pretty damn good" depending on your needs, for example.

Also recently getting back into 40k after having taken a break around early 6th ed. I'm planning on going Black templars after getting my hands on some second-hand stuff. What are some good resources for BT in 9th? Can I run crusader squads in drop pods to decent success? I could only find 8th edition resources and nothing really for templars specifically.. Also, with the new index/faq, can Black Templars take librarians? I was told that the PA rules that said no librarians got invalidated.

miscNouns wrote:
Also recently getting back into 40k after having taken a break around early 6th ed. I'm planning on going Black templars after getting my hands on some second-hand stuff. What are some good resources for BT in 9th? Can I run crusader squads in drop pods to decent success? I could only find 8th edition resources and nothing really for templars specifically.. Also, with the new index/faq, can Black Templars take librarians? I was told that the PA rules that said no librarians got invalidated.

You might want to check implausible nature on youtube and the black templars subsection on the bolter and chainsword, we have a strong community there. Basically what worked in 8th still does in 9th, using devout push to attack out of an Impulsor for example. We just got better stuff to do it with in the form of Bladeguard and Assault Intercessors ^^

I know very little about current black templars. Do they stil have a mixed squad of marines and scouts? And do they stil have the emperors champion?

 Niiai wrote:
I know very little about current black templars. Do they stil have a mixed squad of marines and scouts? And do they stil have the emperors champion?

yup.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/ldTwb1v6UEhFAbdK.pdf
see there for all the rlevant BT rules

Does anyone think that the 8th Ed supplements will get a 2.0 for 9th, with included Crusade stuff?

Does anyone think that Black Templars will get their own supplement?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Does anyone think that the 8th Ed supplements will get a 2.0 for 9th, with included Crusade stuff?

Eventually, yeah. The fact they included new secondaries in SW and DW suggests they'll get a trivial revamp at some point, just for the sake of reselling them.

Does anyone think that Black Templars will get their own supplement?

Nope. IF, CF and BT have so few datasheets between them that it seems entirely unnecessary, especially with the comparative length of the new supplements.
A new IF one could add 20 odd pages to add crusade stuff, secondaries, and miscellaneous stuff for each and still be the same length as the SW book.

Hi guys, wanna ask if anyone have thought of how to deal with Harlequins? Looks like these clowns are among the deadliest opponent to Space Marines.

They might look squishy on paper if they are not buffed. However, they have a tons of trick to make themselves almost unkillable. They have army wide 4++ while can make many infantry and bikes to 3++ and -1 to hit. They have transpots and jetbikes that are -1 to hit and 4++. The Shadowseers can make everyone nearby -1 to wound, and even reduce your range weapon by 6". If they want something to survive Marine aggression, that unit will almost certainly make it through at least one turn.

They are super fast by default, and like supersonic fast if loaded in their transport. Not only will they be "in your face" T1, their high speed itself also let them have the initiative in deciding where to strike and have the high advantage in avoid being alpha striked. The reduced table size perfectly favours them in a battle against marines. As there is no where to hide from them, while the distances between objectives makes their mobility still meaningful in capturing by making Marines still one step behind them in rushing to objectives.

When they strike SM, almost nothing in SM army can survive the salvos of melta shots, Haywire cannons and 4A per model reroll all wound rolls AP-2 multi dmg.

What should we do to stand a chance fighting Harlequins?

Most of those buffs for the harlequins are determined on their turn, so you can adjust accordingly. Ignore the juiced up unit. Take advantage of the fact that -1s don’t stack more than once, and make sure you have some speed in your army that isn’t the front lines. Their weapons are powerful, but not exactly long ranged, so fight the instinct to automatically put your fast units out front and save them for a counter punch.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Hi guys, wanna ask if anyone have thought of how to deal with Harlequins? Looks like these clowns are among the deadliest opponent to Space Marines.

Nick Nanavati Harlequins vs. John Lennon White Scars

https://youtu.be/zQpi-jYCtBE (I would post the Twitch link, but I'm old and I don't understand Twitch.)

3 hours well spent to watch the whole thing.

The takeaway is that Space Marines deal with Harlequins by castling up in the middle of the board, using overlapping auras (especially the chief apothecary) to minimize the effects of their shooting, and the threat of countercharge to hold the clowns back.

Notice that all the Harlequin advantages you listed are defenses against shooting. So the way to beat them is not to stand back and try to shoot, but force them into melee with your strong melee units.

The Harlequins seem scary, but they still need to crack into your brick to score victory points. They can't do enough shooting to move you from the table center, and if they assault directly, they tend to bounce, which allows you to step up your bully units and kill them.

Just watch out for the strat that allows them to fall back onto objectives when you charge them. ((1)You charge them at the end of your turn, (2) they immediately fall back onto an objective without fighting you, (3) they immediately score primaries at the top of their turn for the objective they fell back onto and (4) the charging unit is pulled away from your brick/auras and is now vulnerable to being wiped out piecemeal. The harlequin player would like to rinse and repeat this tactic as much as possible). As demonstrated in the battle, it's often better to let the harlequins charge you.

Also notice that, while the Space Marine army in the batrep is White Scars, he never really needs to use the +1 damage trait. Any Space Marine army can duplicate this strategy.

BA are extra good at catching the clowns and throwing a zillion dice at them in melee. DC even have a handy 6+++ for those 2 damage weapons.

I'm frankly surprised harlequins do this well vs marines.

a lot of facing harlequins is target priority and positioning. A 4++ is great vs big hits but not so great vs smaller ones on mass.

Personally I would prefer an aggressive approach but then I might be coloured by my BA tendencies.

Their mobile but through selective targeting and positioning of your models you can often zonaly control some sections of the board even if you sacrifice others. We also know they need to score objectives so despite their movement their going to be drawn to certain parts of the board

Finally look at your list certain small shotcount high damage weapons like eradicators may be less optimised than assault hellblasters although this needs to be viewed in the context of your local meta

What's the consensus on the best way to equip a Redemptor Dread?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's the consensus on the best way to equip a Redemptor Dread?

honestly I think it might depend on what you're fighting. Plasma if you're in a marine heavy meta. gatling if you see more guardsman and orc players

I have two that I haven't built yet.

One will get the Plasma, the other the Gatling. I'm just not sure on what other guns to give it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I have two that I haven't built yet.

One will get the Plasma, the other the Gatling. I'm just not sure on what other guns to give it.

I think the consensus is that the underslung Onslaught is preferred over the Heavy Flamer and the Icarus Rocket Pod is a worthwhile 5 point upgrade.

The chest weapons are the same cost and identical str, ap, and damage profile except one is a rapid fire bolt weapon and the other is a bit shorter range but has blast (with the pros/cons of that). It feels like a toss up there unless you're IF.

An antiarmor aggressor can still put out 21 shots a turn, against horde.
An antihorde aggressor can put out around 30. So you are giving up all the antiarmor potential and the longer range of the big plasma, for another 6 or so dead ork boys.

Does the rest of your army kill those 18 orks easier than it kills enemy armor and elite marine heavy infantry? That will inform your choice.

Vilgeir wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I have two that I haven't built yet.

One will get the Plasma, the other the Gatling. I'm just not sure on what other guns to give it.

I think the consensus is that the underslung Onslaught is preferred over the Heavy Flamer and the Icarus Rocket Pod is a worthwhile 5 point upgrade.

The chest weapons are the same cost and identical str, ap, and damage profile except one is a rapid fire bolt weapon and the other is a bit shorter range but has blast (with the pros/cons of that). It feels like a toss up there unless you're IF.

I agree with this. They are fairly comparabel unless you are tailing your list. I build mine with the plasmacannon as my opponent regularly has a lot of T8. I do not own that many lascannons as most of my models are from 5th edition, when rocket launchers where king.

The gatling handcannon and flyer rockets are nice for 10 points. I went for the bolters instead of grenade launchers as Blast weapons can not be used in melee.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Captains (Wolf Lord) and Lieutenants (Wolf Guard Battle Leaders) come in some varius forms. All of them can take terinator armour, standar jump pack in non primaris form, both even have Thunder Wolves in the SW codex. But is there any way for Lieutenants to take a bike?

The reason I am asking is I have my Wolf Lord on thunderwolf. But SW can take a warlord trait that allows to get +1 on advance and charge as well as charge after running/turboboosting. Having 20 in movent sounds sweet. But I would need to swap my Wolf Lord and Wolf Guard Battle Leader around.

I see the FAQ released on the WarCom site. The Chapter Command points costs are clarified, the Heavy Intercessor upgrades are fixed, and the Primaris Apothecary keywords are fixed.

 Vilgeir wrote:
I see the FAQ released on the WarCom site. The Chapter Command points costs are clarified, the Heavy Intercessor upgrades are fixed, and the Primaris Apothecary keywords are fixed.

Yep they are the cheaper values they previewed!!

Glad they went with the cheaper costs.