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 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Anyone gonna talk about how CRAZY the void dragon is?!

It's essentially morathi from aos. With the healing as well it is crazy

Essentially, if it doesn't take wounds in the first battle round and it kills a vehicle then it will last for the entire game. If it takes full 3 every round, but it kills 4 vehicles, it will last the entire game. Coupled with a brutal vehicle killer shooting attack and combat profile.

And that's on top of all the ctan MW shenanigans. Chuck this into someone's lines and it is a repeatedly exploding bomb of MW that physically cannot be removed.

Seriously, this is primarch level power here. Better than that as it can hide and it cannot be focused.

We don't know for certain it can hide. If it can't then it's still just going to eat some small arms, couple of smiles and a decent charge then die potentially.

It has some decent tank hunting potential but it seems middle of the road to me, but then I don't expect it to be a character.

**edit**

Nevermind, it is per phase. Still. Pretty damn crazy

 nintura wrote:
My god man.... do NOT let the void dragon get near your vehicles. I'm hoping he's as hard to kill as he sounds.

Morathin AoS has similar damage restrictions as does Gotrek and they've generally worked ok. There's a few other ways to get past the 3 wound per turn limits; plus their point costs often make them super powerful, but also a very heavy point sink. So sure the can do a lot, but they are only one point on the table and can be distracted/tarpitted or otherwise disabled or even (in the case of gotrek - who is slow and has no speed boosts allowed) avoided.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

It seems that you roll for each dead model like before, for every time you roll.

No. The dice you roll for your pool after an enemy unit's attacks is just from models destroyed by that enemy unit's attacks.

Models destroyed earlier (and not reanimated) aren't even getting a shot anymore.

 Overread wrote:

 nintura wrote:
My god man.... do NOT let the void dragon get near your vehicles. I'm hoping he's as hard to kill as he sounds.

Morathin AoS has similar damage restrictions as does Gotrek and they've generally worked ok. There's a few other ways to get past the 3 wound per turn limits; plus their point costs often make them super powerful, but also a very heavy point sink. So sure the can do a lot, but they are only one point on the table and can be distracted/tarpitted or otherwise disabled or even (in the case of gotrek - who is slow and has no speed boosts allowed) avoided.

This is 3 wounds per phase, not turn. If he's caught out somewhere you can kill him without receiving a blow in return, even if that is unlikely to happen.

 vipoid wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
The new RP doesn't trigger off psychic powers or vehicles exploding etc. Since it specifies an attack sequence.

Oh good. Because what RPs really needed was a stealth-nerf.

Yeah I agree. The old rule was actually a lot better but so rarely could come into effect.

I feel like with the way it works now it's going to need some additional stratagems or abilities that let you roll more times to bring models back. Otherwise - there is no reason to take anything but 1 wound models.

I feel the best way yo take advantage of this new rule is to take lots of warriors with ghost archs and illuminator/crtptecs. Or Immortals can work too.

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Anyone gonna talk about how CRAZY the void dragon is?!

It's essentially morathi from aos. With the healing as well it is crazy

Essentially, if it doesn't take wounds in the first battle round and it kills a vehicle then it will last for the entire game. If it takes full 3 every round, but it kills 4 vehicles, it will last the entire game. Coupled with a brutal vehicle killer shooting attack and combat profile.

And that's on top of all the ctan MW shenanigans. Chuck this into someone's lines and it is a repeatedly exploding bomb of MW that physically cannot be removed.

Seriously, this is primarch level power here. Better than that as it can hide and it cannot be focused.

It can suffer 9 damage on single turn. Even fully healed enemy can kill　it in one turn. Some armies won't even need all the　phases

Ghaz has same limit and can heal better without being invincible.

Also likely non character

 Super Ready wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Remember that you're supposed to resolve all attacks made with weapons that have the same profile before resolving attacks with the next.

That isn't relevant for Reanimation Protocols, though.

"Each time an enemy unit shoots or fights, after it makes its attacks"
In other words, after you've resolved attacks from the entire unit.

Did you even read the post that I replied to...?

The guy commented about this "encouraging to commit enough shots to wipe out a unit then fire".
p217 of the Core Rulebook specifies:
-Select targets for all weapons before any attacks are resolved.
-At least one model in the target unit must be visible to the attacking model and within range of the attacking weapon.
-If a unit targets multiple units, all attacks against one unit must be resolved before resolving attacks against the next.
-If a unit shoots with multiple weapons, all attacks made with weapons that have the same profile must be resolved before resolving attacks with the next.

The new Resurrection Protocols? It makes it so people are going to have to figure out that weight of fire is important when fighting Necrons. When not wiping a unit can lead to said unit getting back up? Oh boy, that'll be a sight!

Bonus points though:
-All of a ranged weapon's attacks must be made against the same target unit.

The long and short of my 'reminder' was that while you can choose to devote different weapons to targeting different units when choosing targets, but the resolution of the attacks is supposed to be done based upon the weapons in question.

"Proliferation" of dangerous units with wound limitations like that makes it more important to have a Psyker in your list, just in case.

Maybe the "Abhor the Witch" secondary is so "skewed" towards Psyker armies, because it will be a real drawback not to be able to inflict damage in that phase.

I can imagine Tyranids will get a similar rule on the Swarmlord, Chaos on Abaddon and so on.

 buddha wrote:
Also, still a number of questions on characters and RP. It will next to useless if you need to roll five 5+ dice for an overlord or something to work.

Other missing Codex information notwithstanding - as it looks right now, it doesn't work for characters at all, at least not if they're an individual unit of 1. The moment the model goes down, the unit's gone too, so you're not eligible to roll for RP.

 Super Ready wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Also, still a number of questions on characters and RP. It will next to useless if you need to roll five 5+ dice for an overlord or something to work.

Other missing Codex information notwithstanding - as it looks right now, it doesn't work for characters at all, at least not if they're an individual unit of 1. The moment the model goes down, the unit's gone too, so you're not eligible to roll for RP.

Throwing this out there, but "Edge of Silence" has zero characters with Reanimation Protocols.

The closest thing to a character are the Cryptothralls who get both Living Metal and RP. Skorpekh Lord, Plasmancer, Overlord, Royal Warden all have Living Metal.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
The new RP doesn't trigger off psychic powers or vehicles exploding etc. Since it specifies an attack sequence.

Oh good. Because what RPs really needed was a stealth-nerf.

Yeah I agree. The old rule was actually a lot better but so rarely could come into effect.

I feel like with the way it works now it's going to need some additional stratagems or abilities that let you roll more times to bring models back. Otherwise - there is no reason to take anything but 1 wound models.

I feel the best way yo take advantage of this new rule is to take lots of warriors with ghost archs and illuminator/crtptecs. Or Immortals can work too.

With Immortals back to T5 and just 17 points, I think they're a pretty good contender for best Troop choice, but granted this is just the beginning of the edition.

So Living Metal is probably regaining wounds?

Nobody's going to comment on the fact that the stupid rule "when you GET CHARGED" still exists ? It's lazy, discourages aggressive gameplay from both players and makes no sense. Just stop pretending and give them +1 top Hit or +1 to Wound permanently, the second round of CC is never relevant anyway.

Getting punished for charging a unit by getting hit harder in return is anti-fun. If the Blood Angels unit is in a Defensible terrain it can get +1 to Hit too in the same phase lol.

Also just to continue on the subject, looks like they just buffed the Chapter traits instead of nerfing them. Glad to see the game is going in a good direction. Every faction is going to get buffed to high heavens and we'll get the same lethality as 8th but with more wounds.

Doohicky wrote:
Is it just me, or is that a really wordy way of giving them a worse version of FNP?

It's FNP which can be negated by wiping out squad and is less useful on multi wound models basically.

Only small advantage is being able to replace models in new positions

It's actually a little better than FnP because excess damage from the attack will just be lost rather than trigger additional FnP rolls.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
The new RP doesn't trigger off psychic powers or vehicles exploding etc. Since it specifies an attack sequence.

Oh good. Because what RPs really needed was a stealth-nerf.

Yeah I agree. The old rule was actually a lot better but so rarely could come into effect.

I feel like with the way it works now it's going to need some additional stratagems or abilities that let you roll more times to bring models back. Otherwise - there is no reason to take anything but 1 wound models.

I feel the best way yo take advantage of this new rule is to take lots of warriors with ghost archs and illuminator/crtptecs. Or Immortals can work too.

With Immortals back to T5 and just 17 points, I think they're a pretty good contender for best Troop choice, but granted this is just the beginning of the edition.

I thought Immortals were 18ppm? That's what Battlescribe has them listed as.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
The new RP doesn't trigger off psychic powers or vehicles exploding etc. Since it specifies an attack sequence.

Oh good. Because what RPs really needed was a stealth-nerf.

Yeah I agree. The old rule was actually a lot better but so rarely could come into effect.

I feel like with the way it works now it's going to need some additional stratagems or abilities that let you roll more times to bring models back. Otherwise - there is no reason to take anything but 1 wound models.

I feel the best way yo take advantage of this new rule is to take lots of warriors with ghost archs and illuminator/crtptecs. Or Immortals can work too.

With Immortals back to T5 and just 17 points, I think they're a pretty good contender for best Troop choice, but granted this is just the beginning of the edition.

I thought Immortals were 18ppm? That's what Battlescribe has them listed as.

We don't know what points they will be.

True that, the Codex is coming in a few weeks so we'll know for sure.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

It seems that you roll for each dead model like before, for every time you roll.

No. The dice you roll for your pool after an enemy unit's attacks is just from models destroyed by that enemy unit's attacks.

Models destroyed earlier (and not reanimated) aren't even getting a shot anymore.

Oh yeah you’re right. It’s just a really complicated and worse version of DR now.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

It seems that you roll for each dead model like before, for every time you roll.

No. The dice you roll for your pool after an enemy unit's attacks is just from models destroyed by that enemy unit's attacks.

Models destroyed earlier (and not reanimated) aren't even getting a shot anymore.

Oh yeah you’re right. It’s just a really complicated and worse version of DR now.

You roll for the total wounds of the dead models not the number of dead models. Makes a lot of difference for multi-wounds models like Lychguard.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

It seems that you roll for each dead model like before, for every time you roll.

No. The dice you roll for your pool after an enemy unit's attacks is just from models destroyed by that enemy unit's attacks.

Models destroyed earlier (and not reanimated) aren't even getting a shot anymore.

Oh yeah you’re right. It’s just a really complicated and worse version of DR now.

You roll for the total wounds of the dead models not the number of dead models. Makes a lot of difference for multi-wounds models like Lychguard.

It makes it possible for them to revive, but still gives them terrible odds of actually doing so. Especially for the 3-wound models like Destroyers.

At the top of the space marine article is the leaked image from the start of the year. Is this the first time GW have published it?

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

It seems that you roll for each dead model like before, for every time you roll.

No. The dice you roll for your pool after an enemy unit's attacks is just from models destroyed by that enemy unit's attacks.

Models destroyed earlier (and not reanimated) aren't even getting a shot anymore.

Oh yeah you’re right. It’s just a really complicated and worse version of DR now.

You roll for the total wounds of the dead models not the number of dead models. Makes a lot of difference for multi-wounds models like Lychguard.

Yeah it’s a bad version of DR. With DR, you roll there and then and can keep multi-wound dudes around a while. With this you have to wait and hope the unit isn’t fully destroyed before getting to roll your DR equivalent roll, and then need to roll every wound worth of 5+ to get them back, not just getting to stay alive with a wound like DR. So I went from thinking this was a cool change to a really disappointing change that just turns it into a really complicated and bad version of DR.
It was meant to become more consistent, not receive such a big nerf lol.
Alright, I’ll stop nerd raging now haha.

 vipoid wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

It seems that you roll for each dead model like before, for every time you roll.

No. The dice you roll for your pool after an enemy unit's attacks is just from models destroyed by that enemy unit's attacks.

Models destroyed earlier (and not reanimated) aren't even getting a shot anymore.

Oh yeah you’re right. It’s just a really complicated and worse version of DR now.

You roll for the total wounds of the dead models not the number of dead models. Makes a lot of difference for multi-wounds models like Lychguard.

It makes it possible for them to revive, but still gives them terrible odds of actually doing so. Especially for the 3-wound models like Destroyers.

That's easier to stomach if they're not priced like they're always going to be resurrecting (or at all in the case of destroyers), so unit pricing will be key

 xttz wrote:
At the top of the space marine article is the leaked image from the start of the year. Is this the first time GW have published it?

I was surprised no one else mentioned this. I believe its the first time we've seen this image in its non heavy pixelated form.

Dudeface wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

It seems that you roll for each dead model like before, for every time you roll.

No. The dice you roll for your pool after an enemy unit's attacks is just from models destroyed by that enemy unit's attacks.

Models destroyed earlier (and not reanimated) aren't even getting a shot anymore.

Oh yeah you’re right. It’s just a really complicated and worse version of DR now.

You roll for the total wounds of the dead models not the number of dead models. Makes a lot of difference for multi-wounds models like Lychguard.

It makes it possible for them to revive, but still gives them terrible odds of actually doing so. Especially for the 3-wound models like Destroyers.

That's easier to stomach if they're not priced like they're always going to be resurrecting (or at all in the case of destroyers), so unit pricing will be key

This is GW so they most likely will.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

It seems that you roll for each dead model like before, for every time you roll.

No. The dice you roll for your pool after an enemy unit's attacks is just from models destroyed by that enemy unit's attacks.

Models destroyed earlier (and not reanimated) aren't even getting a shot anymore.

Oh yeah you’re right. It’s just a really complicated and worse version of DR now.

You roll for the total wounds of the dead models not the number of dead models. Makes a lot of difference for multi-wounds models like Lychguard.

It makes it possible for them to revive, but still gives them terrible odds of actually doing so. Especially for the 3-wound models like Destroyers.

That's easier to stomach if they're not priced like they're always going to be resurrecting (or at all in the case of destroyers), so unit pricing will be key

This is GW so they most likely will.

Please don't say it... I have hope...

Of course all this assumes that regular Destroyers still exist in the new Codex...

.

 Aaranis wrote:
Nobody's going to comment on the fact that the stupid rule "when you GET CHARGED" still exists ? It's lazy, discourages aggressive gameplay from both players and makes no sense. Just stop pretending and give them +1 top Hit or +1 to Wound permanently, the second round of CC is never relevant anyway.

Getting punished for charging a unit by getting hit harder in return is anti-fun. If the Blood Angels unit is in a Defensible terrain it can get +1 to Hit too in the same phase lol.

Also just to continue on the subject, looks like they just buffed the Chapter traits instead of nerfing them. Glad to see the game is going in a good direction. Every faction is going to get buffed to high heavens and we'll get the same lethality as 8th but with more wounds.

It's also amazing! The Ultras trait continues to be terrible even though it is clearly the ONLY trait that needs to be buffed or chaged. The others give you raw stats LOL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

It seems that you roll for each dead model like before, for every time you roll.

No. The dice you roll for your pool after an enemy unit's attacks is just from models destroyed by that enemy unit's attacks.

Models destroyed earlier (and not reanimated) aren't even getting a shot anymore.

Oh yeah you’re right. It’s just a really complicated and worse version of DR now.

Except on 1 wound models where it is a lot better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
The new RP doesn't trigger off psychic powers or vehicles exploding etc. Since it specifies an attack sequence.

Oh good. Because what RPs really needed was a stealth-nerf.

Yeah I agree. The old rule was actually a lot better but so rarely could come into effect.

I feel like with the way it works now it's going to need some additional stratagems or abilities that let you roll more times to bring models back. Otherwise - there is no reason to take anything but 1 wound models.

I feel the best way yo take advantage of this new rule is to take lots of warriors with ghost archs and illuminator/crtptecs. Or Immortals can work too.

With Immortals back to T5 and just 17 points, I think they're a pretty good contender for best Troop choice, but granted this is just the beginning of the edition.

Yeah I think they are great. t5 with a 5+ FNP (even better except against mortals) and 2 solid weapon choices. Warriors also pretty great. My 2 k list I had planned was running 20 immortals and 20 warriors. I might increase that to 30 and 40. Also might take a royal warden with all these damn infantry running around. Probably worth it. Illuminator is also pretty auto include too.