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2020/08/04 20:09:54
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Actually if you look at BCP results, marines are performing quite bad, but BA are going strong
No, I'm not serious before someone jumps on my throath for that.
We can't really conclude anything from just a dozen or so small event results.
I do find it amusing that no one wants to talk about the buggy Orks taking 1st and DE 3rd in a 42 player tournament as quickly though.
This thread is called "Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes", so...
It's also hilarious that Xeno thinks that he was right about Squig Buggies, when in fact it was the only buggy that wasn't in the list. He literally brought all the others, including a wartrike and a snazzwagon.
It's pretty safe to assume that the six scrapjets and two bonebreakers were giving any primaris he encountered hell. It also does a decent job at denying secondaries, despite buggies not being especially durable, killing six of them is still a ton of wounds you need to go through.
I literally said that myself and laughed. You have no sense of humor bro. All ork buggies are good. You are going to see LOTS of them. Squig buggy probably is the best buggy though. ESP with the obscuring rules. It is a lot easier to hide them. You can literally sit back with 9 squig buggies chucking 24 d3 str 6 ap-1 d3 damage shots and 10 smash guns and just blow armies apart. I say again though - all the buggies are really good. I know because I play against them a lot. I agree though...lets get back on topic. how good are squig buggies vs gravis units...wow...so they are faster - can shoot over walls at them and a single failed save can be a dead gravis.
If the topic is custodes. I can confirm pretty handely that gravis get merked by custodians. 2+ saves make your auto bolters and flamers worthless unless you are in tactical doctrine.In melee Custodes hit on 2's compared to 4's to wound on the same number and a 4++ vs a 6+ save.They are literally killing at twice the rate in CC for being only 30% more expensive?
Xenomancers wrote: How in here thinks Repulsor executioners should cost as much as a titan?
Are you suggesting that Repulsor Executioners should cost 2000 ppm like Warhound titans? Or 6000 ppm like Warlords? That's the best idea you've ever had Xeno! What a great way to get those eyesores off the table! Maybe then loyalists will start using some of their real tanks like Sicarans. No, wait, you want a tank that can also act as a transport but still have lots of guns while being really tough. I know, Land Raider Achilles! And it's only 14 ppm more than an Executioner with the big laser whatever it is (because we all know nobody takes the big plasma whatever it is). What a brilliant idea to beautify the game, I love it. Now, how do we get rid of those godawful Ninja Not Really a Dreadnoughts......
Umm... He... He made a typo...
He meant "Who in here thinks Repulsor executioners should cost as much as a titan?" Who, not How.
It doesn't even make sense with how...
Obviously . He was implying that the executioner is overpriced, which it isn't. It goes back to your own point about how loyalist players see their units. Everything should be at least +1 of what everyone else has, for less points. So I fed him some satire. A flying tank with that many guns? And it only took a 16% hit? Compared to the points increase other armies got? And of course he wants it to be cheaper so loyalists can use it to move the already grossly underpriced eradicators quickly and safely up the board. Right, cut points for loyalists, they need all the help they can get.
Oh no - I admit that eradicators are too cheap. I literally posted it in that thread lol. The executioner is dang near 100 points over costed though. At least 80. Twin Heavy bolters are all overcosted too. 6 str5 ap -1 is not worth 30 points. That is literally insane.
I'll break it down. Executioner lost it's special ability...POTMS - all non vheicals get that. Lost the ability to fail back and shoot. Half the heavy weapons in the game give it no save when you shoot it. Why the heck would I not just take 3 vindicators for the points? 33 t8 3+ wounds compared to 16...
What if those heavy bolters were s5 ap -1 d2?
There is no point in trying to balance the game if you are going to give 1 army a blanket rule that doubles the damage of a weapon and every other army has to pay the points for the weapon at half the efficiency. Even in this case that only works for 1 turn (the first turn) and you could just hide from it and then they just have over-costed weapons.
I'm extrapolating from the invictor changes and it would be on the assumption it was game wide
well given the invictor changes have it only firing 1 shot from ti's pistol....
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2020/08/04 20:22:53
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Quite honestly a lot of those units aren't great, particularly the Paladins and Bullgryns, because the only way they can be "good" is stacking buff after buff and Stratagem after Stratagem.
You're gonna need to run that by me re: Bullgryns, which don't have any particularly useful stratagems and don't get subfaction bonuses, yet were commonly featured in AM lists all through 8th.
Just remember who you're talking to, catbarf - anything that disagrees with a taken position can be discounted as "anecdotal", while anything that agrees with it is obviously valuable data.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2020/08/04 20:30:22
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Xenomancers wrote: I literally said that myself and laughed. You have no sense of humor bro. All ork buggies are good. You are going to see LOTS of them. Squig buggy probably is the best buggy though. ESP with the obscuring rules. It is a lot easier to hide them. You can literally sit back with 9 squig buggies chucking 24 d3 str 6 ap-1 d3 damage shots and 10 smash guns and just blow armies apart. I say again though - all the buggies are really good. I know because I play against them a lot. I agree though...lets get back on topic. how good are squig buggies vs gravis units...wow...so they are faster - can shoot over walls at them and a single failed save can be a dead gravis.
The squig buggy is one of the worst units in the codex, it got an extremely powerful kustom job and still sucks, that's how bad it is. And it's terrible at killing gravis with any of it's three profiles.
But it's good to see that a new edition hasn't stopped you from insisting that some of the worst ork units are overpowered
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 20:30:48
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/08/04 20:30:56
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Actually if you look at BCP results, marines are performing quite bad, but BA are going strong
No, I'm not serious before someone jumps on my throath for that.
We can't really conclude anything from just a dozen or so small event results.
I do find it amusing that no one wants to talk about the buggy Orks taking 1st and DE 3rd in a 42 player tournament as quickly though.
This thread is called "Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes", so...
It's also hilarious that Xeno thinks that he was right about Squig Buggies, when in fact it was the only buggy that wasn't in the list. He literally brought all the others, including a wartrike and a snazzwagon.
It's pretty safe to assume that the six scrapjets and two bonebreakers were giving any primaris he encountered hell. It also does a decent job at denying secondaries, despite buggies not being especially durable, killing six of them is still a ton of wounds you need to go through.
I literally said that myself and laughed. You have no sense of humor bro. All ork buggies are good. You are going to see LOTS of them. Squig buggy probably is the best buggy though. ESP with the obscuring rules. It is a lot easier to hide them. You can literally sit back with 9 squig buggies chucking 24 d3 str 6 ap-1 d3 damage shots and 10 smash guns and just blow armies apart. I say again though - all the buggies are really good. I know because I play against them a lot. I agree though...lets get back on topic. how good are squig buggies vs gravis units...wow...so they are faster - can shoot over walls at them and a single failed save can be a dead gravis.
If the topic is custodes. I can confirm pretty handely that gravis get merked by custodians. 2+ saves make your auto bolters and flamers worthless unless you are in tactical doctrine.In melee Custodes hit on 2's compared to 4's to wound on the same number and a 4++ vs a 6+ save.They are literally killing at twice the rate in CC for being only 30% more expensive?
Xenomancers wrote: How in here thinks Repulsor executioners should cost as much as a titan?
Are you suggesting that Repulsor Executioners should cost 2000 ppm like Warhound titans? Or 6000 ppm like Warlords? That's the best idea you've ever had Xeno! What a great way to get those eyesores off the table! Maybe then loyalists will start using some of their real tanks like Sicarans. No, wait, you want a tank that can also act as a transport but still have lots of guns while being really tough. I know, Land Raider Achilles! And it's only 14 ppm more than an Executioner with the big laser whatever it is (because we all know nobody takes the big plasma whatever it is). What a brilliant idea to beautify the game, I love it. Now, how do we get rid of those godawful Ninja Not Really a Dreadnoughts......
Umm... He... He made a typo...
He meant "Who in here thinks Repulsor executioners should cost as much as a titan?" Who, not How.
It doesn't even make sense with how...
Obviously . He was implying that the executioner is overpriced, which it isn't. It goes back to your own point about how loyalist players see their units. Everything should be at least +1 of what everyone else has, for less points. So I fed him some satire. A flying tank with that many guns? And it only took a 16% hit? Compared to the points increase other armies got? And of course he wants it to be cheaper so loyalists can use it to move the already grossly underpriced eradicators quickly and safely up the board. Right, cut points for loyalists, they need all the help they can get.
Oh no - I admit that eradicators are too cheap. I literally posted it in that thread lol. The executioner is dang near 100 points over costed though. At least 80. Twin Heavy bolters are all overcosted too. 6 str5 ap -1 is not worth 30 points. That is literally insane.
I'll break it down. Executioner lost it's special ability...POTMS - all non vheicals get that. Lost the ability to fail back and shoot. Half the heavy weapons in the game give it no save when you shoot it. Why the heck would I not just take 3 vindicators for the points? 33 t8 3+ wounds compared to 16...
What if those heavy bolters were s5 ap -1 d2?
There is no point in trying to balance the game if you are going to give 1 army a blanket rule that doubles the damage of a weapon and every other army has to pay the points for the weapon at half the efficiency. Even in this case that only works for 1 turn (the first turn) and you could just hide from it and then they just have over-costed weapons.
I'm extrapolating from the invictor changes and it would be on the assumption it was game wide
well given the invictor changes have it only firing 1 shot from ti's pistol....
Well yeah, it's a pistol version of a heavy bolter hence the one shot maybe, or it's now just a unique weapon to that unit and heavy bolters don't change, but it would explain their price increase.
2020/08/04 22:42:34
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Quite honestly a lot of those units aren't great, particularly the Paladins and Bullgryns, because the only way they can be "good" is stacking buff after buff and Stratagem after Stratagem.
You're gonna need to run that by me re: Bullgryns, which don't have any particularly useful stratagems and don't get subfaction bonuses, yet were commonly featured in AM lists all through 8th.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Plus you'll notice based on the math that Custodes are pretty close anyway.
Soooo you just ignored all the math where Custodes lose by a significant margin in a straight fight, barely win if they get the charge, and get absolutely wrecked if they get charged?
You mean the Bullgryns that are only ever taken as long as you can get off Barrier at minimum and sometimes Shroud? Strats are mostly a Paladin thing but I'm like 90% sure they have one in Awakening that gives a -1 to hit for a unit near them.
Also saying they lose by a significant margin is pretty wrong. They might lose, but not by a lot. That's fine for a troop choice.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/08/05 02:41:44
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Xenomancers wrote: How in here thinks Repulsor executioners should cost as much as a titan?
Are you suggesting that Repulsor Executioners should cost 2000 ppm like Warhound titans? Or 6000 ppm like Warlords? That's the best idea you've ever had Xeno! What a great way to get those eyesores off the table! Maybe then loyalists will start using some of their real tanks like Sicarans. No, wait, you want a tank that can also act as a transport but still have lots of guns while being really tough. I know, Land Raider Achilles! And it's only 14 ppm more than an Executioner with the big laser whatever it is (because we all know nobody takes the big plasma whatever it is). What a brilliant idea to beautify the game, I love it. Now, how do we get rid of those godawful Ninja Not Really a Dreadnoughts......
Umm... He... He made a typo...
He meant "Who in here thinks Repulsor executioners should cost as much as a titan?" Who, not How.
It doesn't even make sense with how...
Obviously . He was implying that the executioner is overpriced, which it isn't. It goes back to your own point about how loyalist players see their units. Everything should be at least +1 of what everyone else has, for less points. So I fed him some satire. A flying tank with that many guns? And it only took a 16% hit? Compared to the points increase other armies got? And of course he wants it to be cheaper so loyalists can use it to move the already grossly underpriced eradicators quickly and safely up the board. Right, cut points for loyalists, they need all the help they can get.
Oh no - I admit that eradicators are too cheap. I literally posted it in that thread lol. The executioner is dang near 100 points over costed though. At least 80. Twin Heavy bolters are all overcosted too. 6 str5 ap -1 is not worth 30 points. That is literally insane.
I'll break it down. Executioner lost it's special ability...POTMS - all non vheicals get that. Lost the ability to fail back and shoot. Half the heavy weapons in the game give it no save when you shoot it. Why the heck would I not just take 3 vindicators for the points? 33 t8 3+ wounds compared to 16...
Ok, once again, trying to respond to what I think you're trying to say. You mean that all vehicles get the equivalent of potms now, and not all "non vheicals", right? So are you saying everything that used to have potms/daemonic machine spirit should get a discount? Then how about super heavy tanks? "Steel Behemoth" no longer makes them special by allowing them to fire their weapons into and out of melee. Want to give them a discount too? Units shouldn't get a discount just because gw changed the rules for vehicles so that they make more sense and actually encourage movement instead of penalizing it. And as far as the executioner "losing" its ability to fall back and still shoot, no one is upset about that except for people who are sad their flying armory can no longer just float away from whatever was lucky enough to make it into combat with it, despite its -2 to charge rule, so that it can unload all 173.5 of its guns into them. That was a bad rule, and few will miss it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/05 02:43:08
2020/08/05 02:52:04
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You mean the Bullgryns that are only ever taken as long as you can get off Barrier at minimum and sometimes Shroud?
So hold on, Bullgryns are 'not that great' and shouldn't be compared to Bladeguard as a baseline, but give them just a +1 to their save and maybe a -1 to hit and suddenly they're great and regularly show up in top AM lists?
And what does that mean for Bladeguard when they get to leverage their own psychic abilities, subfaction traits, auras, doctrines, and psychic powers?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Also saying they lose by a significant margin is pretty wrong. They might lose, but not by a lot. That's fine for a troop choice.
33% is a pretty significant margin. Bladeguard could go up 5pts and they'd still be point-for-point better than Custodes even without factoring in any of the force multipliers Marines have.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You mean the Bullgryns that are only ever taken as long as you can get off Barrier at minimum and sometimes Shroud?
So hold on, Bullgryns are 'not that great' and shouldn't be compared to Bladeguard as a baseline, but give them just a +1 to their save and maybe a -1 to hit and suddenly they're great and regularly show up in top AM lists?
And what does that mean for Bladeguard when they get to leverage their own psychic abilities, subfaction traits, auras, doctrines, and psychic powers?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Also saying they lose by a significant margin is pretty wrong. They might lose, but not by a lot. That's fine for a troop choice.
33% is a pretty significant margin. Bladeguard could go up 5pts and they'd still be point-for-point better than Custodes even without factoring in any of the force multipliers Marines have.
You're missing the grand point on purpose.
Both Bullgryns and Paladins are only taken because of the buffs you can stack on them for the points or Stratagem cost. Paladins might already be a thousand times better than Terminators in the first place, but lists wouldn't have been built around them if it weren't for the constant Strats put on them. So that's why I'd argue the overall decent performance with Paladins but Bullgryns just not being good.
So is it really that Bladeguard are that broken or are you just used to needing to put that many resources into a unit for it to function? Doesn't THAT say more about the game that those units don't function as intended under their own merit? Would you really take Bullgryns if you couldn't make them ultra durable? The answer to that question is a resounding no.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/08/05 05:26:02
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You mean the Bullgryns that are only ever taken as long as you can get off Barrier at minimum and sometimes Shroud?
So hold on, Bullgryns are 'not that great' and shouldn't be compared to Bladeguard as a baseline, but give them just a +1 to their save and maybe a -1 to hit and suddenly they're great and regularly show up in top AM lists?
And what does that mean for Bladeguard when they get to leverage their own psychic abilities, subfaction traits, auras, doctrines, and psychic powers?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Also saying they lose by a significant margin is pretty wrong. They might lose, but not by a lot. That's fine for a troop choice.
33% is a pretty significant margin. Bladeguard could go up 5pts and they'd still be point-for-point better than Custodes even without factoring in any of the force multipliers Marines have.
They are 33% better in a specific scenario which isn't actually going to be that common. That is different from being 33% better.
Going by the stats, custodes compared to bladeguards are +1S, +1T, +1WS, troops, obsec, have a small ranged attack and a little save against psy mortals. That's enough stuff to justify at least a 10-11 point increase when applied to a 3W platform. If custodes are overcosted comparred to bladeguards, we are talking about a 3-4 point difference, surely not 33%.
2020/08/05 06:56:50
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You mean the Bullgryns that are only ever taken as long as you can get off Barrier at minimum and sometimes Shroud?
So hold on, Bullgryns are 'not that great' and shouldn't be compared to Bladeguard as a baseline, but give them just a +1 to their save and maybe a -1 to hit and suddenly they're great and regularly show up in top AM lists?
And what does that mean for Bladeguard when they get to leverage their own psychic abilities, subfaction traits, auras, doctrines, and psychic powers?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Also saying they lose by a significant margin is pretty wrong. They might lose, but not by a lot. That's fine for a troop choice.
33% is a pretty significant margin. Bladeguard could go up 5pts and they'd still be point-for-point better than Custodes even without factoring in any of the force multipliers Marines have.
They are 33% better in a specific scenario which isn't actually going to be that common. That is different from being 33% better.
Going by the stats, custodes compared to bladeguards are +1S, +1T, +1WS, troops, obsec, have a small ranged attack and a little save against psy mortals. That's enough stuff to justify at least a 10-11 point increase when applied to a 3W platform. If custodes are overcosted comparred to bladeguards, we are talking about a 3-4 point difference, surely not 33%.
But then Bladeguard have chapter tactics, doctrines, and super doctrines on top of them where custodes (If you assume the spear ones) have a subfaction trait that gives them the same invul as Bladeguard. Also, Bladeguard have access to cheap transport and a ton of infiltrate or movility stratagems/subfactions were custodes troops have always been crap because they are slow meele units that never reach meele alive.
I love Bladeguard. They'll surely make work in my Dark Angels force. But they have no reason to have 3 wounds or to have 3 wounds and be as cheap as they are.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/05 06:58:03
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2020/08/05 07:00:02
Subject: Re:Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
I would claim that Bullgryns are good enough without any buffs. They are though, don't falter to light weapons like the rest of the AM non-vehicles and hit pretty hard. A niche that they fill pretty alone in the IG codex. I'm no tournament player but I would undouptedly still take them when they could not be buffed. Also Bullgryn specific stratagems only arrived with greater good and they have been taken before
~6550 build and painted
819 build and painted
830
2020/08/05 07:01:19
Subject: Re:Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Pyroalchi wrote: I would claim that Bullgryns are good enough without any buffs. They are though, don't falter to light weapons like the rest of the AM non-vehicles and hit pretty hard. A niche that they fill pretty alone in the IG codex. I'm no tournament player but I would undouptedly still take them when they could not be buffed. Also Bullgryn specific stratagems only arrived with greater good and they have been taken before
Yeah, and is not like having a psyker casting +1 save on a big unit of bullgryns is a big investment for Imperial Guard armies. Bullgryns are probably one of the best "Good on itself" unit in the game.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2020/08/05 08:39:15
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You mean the Bullgryns that are only ever taken as long as you can get off Barrier at minimum and sometimes Shroud?
So hold on, Bullgryns are 'not that great' and shouldn't be compared to Bladeguard as a baseline, but give them just a +1 to their save and maybe a -1 to hit and suddenly they're great and regularly show up in top AM lists?
And what does that mean for Bladeguard when they get to leverage their own psychic abilities, subfaction traits, auras, doctrines, and psychic powers?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Also saying they lose by a significant margin is pretty wrong. They might lose, but not by a lot. That's fine for a troop choice.
33% is a pretty significant margin. Bladeguard could go up 5pts and they'd still be point-for-point better than Custodes even without factoring in any of the force multipliers Marines have.
Custodian guard are one of the worst tools in the custodes book and you will not be seeing many of them.
2020/08/05 08:59:58
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
It feels like more of the only marine units are competitive stop compairing Marine units to non competitive codex's complaints again
Hard not to say you ahould balance marines vrs other codex's when the 1 codex covers 50% of the competitive meta.
As not everyone wants to play vrs Green Primaris, vrs Blue Primaris, vrs Black Primaris, vrs Red Primaris, Vrs White primaris for all 5 games at an event.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/05 09:11:42
2020/08/05 09:32:20
Subject: Re:Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
According to this the Multimelta is now heavy 2 so this changes how we view eradicators. Or Multimelta devastators
People seem to be assuming that GW will automatically update everyone else's multimeltas. Much like the idea there would be broken Storm Shield.
I wouldn't bet on it before it happens.
2020/08/05 09:48:29
Subject: Re:Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
According to this the Multimelta is now heavy 2 so this changes how we view eradicators. Or Multimelta devastators
People seem to be assuming that GW will automatically update everyone else's multimeltas. Much like the idea there would be broken Storm Shield.
I wouldn't bet on it before it happens.
presumably they'll update them as the codices come out. other then marines, sobs and guard are the only factions to use multi meltas yeah?
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2020/08/05 09:59:03
Subject: Re:Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
According to this the Multimelta is now heavy 2 so this changes how we view eradicators. Or Multimelta devastators
People seem to be assuming that GW will automatically update everyone else's multimeltas. Much like the idea there would be broken Storm Shield. I wouldn't bet on it before it happens.
presumably they'll update them as the codices come out. other then marines, sobs and guard are the only factions to use multi meltas yeah?
Ad Mech, Chaos Marines, Knights, and Chaos Knights all say hi.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/05 10:00:47
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
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2020/08/05 10:04:06
Subject: Re:Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
According to this the Multimelta is now heavy 2 so this changes how we view eradicators. Or Multimelta devastators
People seem to be assuming that GW will automatically update everyone else's multimeltas. Much like the idea there would be broken Storm Shield. I wouldn't bet on it before it happens.
presumably they'll update them as the codices come out. other then marines, sobs and guard are the only factions to use multi meltas yeah?
Ad Mech, Chaos Marines, Knights, and Chaos Knights all say hi.
To be fair, we don't actually know if meltaguns and other melta weapons are also changing (I don't believe any of those factions actually get multi-meltas aside from CSMs, could be remembering wrong though), especially with Eradicators having the current melta ability rather than this new one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/05 10:15:16
2020/08/05 10:14:01
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Death Guard would also like the new multi-melta on their MBH very much.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/08/05 10:34:12
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
According to this the Multimelta is now heavy 2 so this changes how we view eradicators. Or Multimelta devastators
Well, Eradicators don't have Multimeltas, they have an Assault Melta Rifle.
I think the point being made was that the units Eradicators are being compared to are benefitting from the multi melta change (hopefully), and as such Eradicators being better might not be so cut and dry.
According to this the Multimelta is now heavy 2 so this changes how we view eradicators. Or Multimelta devastators
People seem to be assuming that GW will automatically update everyone else's multimeltas. Much like the idea there would be broken Storm Shield.
I wouldn't bet on it before it happens.
presumably they'll update them as the codices come out. other then marines, sobs and guard are the only factions to use multi meltas yeah?
Ad Mech, Chaos Marines, Knights, and Chaos Knights all say hi.
ad mech have no multi-meltas, I'm sure of that. Also, which knights have multi-meltas?
Are you talking about regular meltas? in which case, again not admech, but eldar, dark eldar, inquisition, harlequins, and tau all have weapons that are identical to melta guns.
According to this the Multimelta is now heavy 2 so this changes how we view eradicators. Or Multimelta devastators
Well, Eradicators don't have Multimeltas, they have an Assault Melta Rifle.
I think the point being made was that the units Eradicators are being compared to are benefitting from the multi melta change (hopefully), and as such Eradicators being better might not be so cut and dry.
That is, in my opinion given GW's history of being more than happy to hand marines extra-special versions of toys that nobody else gets despite deserving to have them, a BIG IF.
Remember, we are now more than a year into "one IRON HANDS land raider can fight nearly two identically costed <LEGION> land raiders"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/05 12:11:37
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/08/05 12:28:50
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Usually we see a name change to accompany that though. Like if it was called "Astartes Multimelta" I'd say Sisters and IG are screwed, but the fact it doesn't means I'm holding out hope. We also saw the Demolisher upgrade go to IG too.
When they improved the marine Chainsword it got the "Astartes" added in to differentiate it from others.
According to this the Multimelta is now heavy 2 so this changes how we view eradicators. Or Multimelta devastators
People seem to be assuming that GW will automatically update everyone else's multimeltas. Much like the idea there would be broken Storm Shield.
I wouldn't bet on it before it happens.
presumably they'll update them as the codices come out. other then marines, sobs and guard are the only factions to use multi meltas yeah?
Ad Mech, Chaos Marines, Knights, and Chaos Knights all say hi.
ad mech have no multi-meltas, I'm sure of that. Also, which knights have multi-meltas?
.
Ad Mech has MM Servitors. I forgot the Indominus Chassis has twin Meltas instead of Multi-meltas.
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2020/08/05 12:43:39
Subject: Eradicators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Vets, Outriders etc vs Custodes
Sentineil wrote: Usually we see a name change to accompany that though. Like if it was called "Astartes Multimelta" I'd say Sisters and IG are screwed, but the fact it doesn't means I'm holding out hope. We also saw the Demolisher upgrade go to IG too.
When they improved the marine Chainsword it got the "Astartes" added in to differentiate it from others.
Yeah, and its still not clear if that's going to be all chainswords used by all astartes or just assault intercessors. same with storm shields.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
. He was implying that the executioner is overpriced, which it isn't. It goes back to your own point about how loyalist players see their units. Everything should be at least +1 of what everyone else has, for less points. So I fed him some satire. A flying tank with that many guns? And it only took a 16% hit? Compared to the points increase other armies got? And of course he wants it to be cheaper so loyalists can use it to move the already grossly underpriced eradicators quickly and safely up the board. Right, cut points for loyalists, they need all the help they can get. 
~6550 build and painted
819 build and painted
830 
