Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Beyond eradicators, which somehow managed to dive straight off the deep end in the codex, the rest seems fine however. Bladeguard are still a touch cheap but that's easily fixed.

but will they be?

this was the time to fix it

Their transport got nerfed and they don't get full rerolls any more, there's plenty of reasons they maybe want to wait and see what the community do. It's not like they do a pass of all points every year.

Ice_can wrote:


Vehicals need about 1/3 reduction in price Xeno players are being overcharged rediculously. But please continue with how this makes eradicators not the prime example of GW having failed to balance a unit.

I prefer giving them more wounds. Reducing the model count to 10-15% was a good move for GW, I don't want to come back to huge armies in standard games only because lethality is too high.

 Blackie wrote:

Ice_can wrote:


Vehicals need about 1/3 reduction in price Xeno players are being overcharged rediculously. But please continue with how this makes eradicators not the prime example of GW having failed to balance a unit.

I prefer giving them more wounds. Reducing the model count to 10-15% was a good move for GW, I don't want to come back to huge armies in standard games only because lethality is too high.

Agreed, it also helps differentiate between anti infantry and anti armour, makes d2 weapons etc less appealing to spam against vehicles if they have more wound but gives more scope to increase anti tank damage (as they have) which is wasted on infantry.

 Blackie wrote:

Ice_can wrote:


Vehicals need about 1/3 reduction in price Xeno players are being overcharged rediculously. But please continue with how this makes eradicators not the prime example of GW having failed to balance a unit.

I prefer giving them more wounds. Reducing the model count to 10-15% was a good move for GW, I don't want to come back to huge armies in standard games only because lethality is too high.

How many more wounds do you give a warhound titian, Acresstus class Knights Falchion and Fellblades,
A Riptide, Russ all need like 20 something wounds to not give out 100%+ returns in a single volly from eridicators.
Knights are now 50 wounds, Titains at the 80+ range?
I'm not opposed to the idea but man looks like anyone without a codex is going to be unplayable in the new Eradicators meta.

Ice_can wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Ice_can wrote:


Vehicals need about 1/3 reduction in price Xeno players are being overcharged rediculously. But please continue with how this makes eradicators not the prime example of GW having failed to balance a unit.

I prefer giving them more wounds. Reducing the model count to 10-15% was a good move for GW, I don't want to come back to huge armies in standard games only because lethality is too high.

How many more wounds do you give a warhound titian, Acresstus class Knights Falchion and Fellblades,
A Riptide, Russ all need like 20 something wounds to not give out 100%+ returns in a single volly from eridicators.
Knights are now 50 wounds, Titains at the 80+ range?
I'm not opposed to the idea but man looks like anyone without a codex is going to be unplayable in the new Eradicators meta.

Just ask your opponent not to bring 18 eradicators, or don't bring anything they're good at killing. Not ideal but if you're that worried it's the best way.

Dudeface wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Ice_can wrote:


Vehicals need about 1/3 reduction in price Xeno players are being overcharged rediculously. But please continue with how this makes eradicators not the prime example of GW having failed to balance a unit.

I prefer giving them more wounds. Reducing the model count to 10-15% was a good move for GW, I don't want to come back to huge armies in standard games only because lethality is too high.

How many more wounds do you give a warhound titian, Acresstus class Knights Falchion and Fellblades,
A Riptide, Russ all need like 20 something wounds to not give out 100%+ returns in a single volly from eridicators.
Knights are now 50 wounds, Titains at the 80+ range?
I'm not opposed to the idea but man looks like anyone without a codex is going to be unplayable in the new Eradicators meta.

Just ask your opponent not to bring 18 eradicators, or don't bring anything they're good at killing. Not ideal but if you're that worried it's the best way.

18 haha good one, 6 of them can one round a knight with what sounds like will be the new standard marine buffs.

The sad thing is even if I leave the big units at home they can achieve a 100%+ return against crisis suits FFS.

Ice_can wrote:

I'm not opposed to the idea but man looks like anyone without a codex is going to be unplayable in the new Eradicators meta.

It's nothing different than early 8th when SM had their codex and pretty much anyone else still had the index. Guilliman's Ultramarines, even without 6+ razorbacks, were basically impossible to defeat with my Orks, Drukhari or SW unless the SM player toned down his list by a large margin. And I had 10k of orks, 7k of SW and 5k of Drukhari back then, so it wasn't like I didn't have options.

I guess it won't be different now, SM players can either avoid bringing tournament level lists to casual games or play against themselves. Nothing new here.

 Blackie wrote:

Spoletta wrote:


Unfortunately the sisters compare actually quite nice to the eradicators.

Eradicators look quite underpowered compared to the sisters, at least damage/point wise.
GW screwed up a lot of AT units with their new hotness for melta, not just eradicators.

Deal with it, you will not see anything with more than 3 wounds in 9th edition.

Not at all. Those sisters retributors are T3 1W 3+ dudes that cost 32ppm. Eradicators look 10 times better, because they aren't glass cannon while their damage output is certainly not inferior.

Sisters melta retributors were and they may be finally good while their army is not going to dominate the meta because of it. Eradicators were overpowered before and they're even more overpowered now. Their army was dominating the meta before, and I'm referring to any possible levels of gaming from ultra casual to ultra competitive, (tournament data from Australia aren't real info), and will continue to do it.

And I wouldn't be so sure about what we're going to see or not. When 9th was released many players considered armies with cheaper infantry models dead, with only the more elite oriented ones to perform well, and they ended up wrong. Now we may assume that this edition will still be the elite oriented one or some return of the hordes but let's wait 1-2 months and we'll all predict completely different metas.

Yes, and that's why I said that compared well damage/point wise, so you telling me that they don't compare well in thoughness, doesn't exactly count as a counter argument

Spoletta wrote:


Yes, and that's why I said that compared well damage/point wise, so you telling me that they don't compare well in thoughness, doesn't exactly count as a counter argument

Comparisons make sense only considering the units as a whole Better if also taking into account the actual impact they have on their armies and the meta. Damage/point wise means nothing without comparing toughness as those sisters will fire one turn and then evaporate, while those SM will likely fire multiple times and they're also easier to spam, I don't think many sororitas armies will bring more than a unit of retributors.

I can deal with a single glasscannon unit that can kill a land raider in one turn, I probably can't if I have to face three, which aren't even glasscannon, on top on a top tier army.

Overall Eradicators are way better than Multimelta retributors.

Spoletta wrote:

Yes, and that's why I said that compared well damage/point wise, so you telling me that they don't compare well in thoughness, doesn't exactly count as a counter argument

Excpet they don't eradicators are Flat out better
Heck I layed out the maths for you, but as usual it was ignored as it showed your point to be untrue.

Retributors cost 15 points per wound to a Russ
Eradicators cost 13 points per wound or 10 points per wound done thats not even remotely comparable.

And they can both be buffed to be more efficent.

Ice_can wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

Yes, and that's why I said that compared well damage/point wise, so you telling me that they don't compare well in thoughness, doesn't exactly count as a counter argument

Excpet they don't eradicators are Flat out better
Heck I layed out the maths for you, but as usual it was ignored as it showed your point to be untrue.

Retributors cost 15 points per wound to a Russ
Eradicators cost 13 points per wound or 10 points per wound done thats not even remotely comparable.

And they can both be buffed to be more efficent.

Include the armorium cherubs, for that first round you're getting 14 wounds out even after moving (i.e. from further away or from safely disembarking) with no buffs, which is categorically better than the heavy eradicators with multimelta standing still.

They're both good units, both have quirks in different ways and on the face of it eradicators are slightly better but retributors are more flexible imo.

Dudeface wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

Yes, and that's why I said that compared well damage/point wise, so you telling me that they don't compare well in thoughness, doesn't exactly count as a counter argument

Excpet they don't eradicators are Flat out better
Heck I layed out the maths for you, but as usual it was ignored as it showed your point to be untrue.

Retributors cost 15 points per wound to a Russ
Eradicators cost 13 points per wound or 10 points per wound done thats not even remotely comparable.

And they can both be buffed to be more efficent.

Include the armorium cherubs, for that first round you're getting 14 wounds out even after moving (i.e. from further away or from safely disembarking) with no buffs, which is categorically better than the heavy eradicators with multimelta standing still.

They're both good units, both have quirks in different ways and on the face of it eradicators are slightly better but retributors are more flexible imo.

Dont drag our retributers into this, unlike the special snowflake marines we dont have 500 different AT options to choose from, we have melta weapons and the exorcist, end of list.

Dudeface wrote:


Include the armorium cherubs, for that first round you're getting 14 wounds out even after moving (i.e. from further away or from safely disembarking) with no buffs, which is categorically better than the heavy eradicators with multimelta standing still.

They're both good units, both have quirks in different ways and on the face of it eradicators are slightly better but retributors are more flexible imo.

Atleast you haven't gone radio silence when confronted with numbers so I'll try and be as civil avout this as I can.

So your saying make them more expensive with one use only buffs and they get better, than eradicators but nothing like the durability.

Also this isnt using things like Salamanders and other strategum buffs to make the eradicators more efficent that they get every turn for 0 points for adding a facrion keyword.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:


WHAT discussion have you been reading where the concern about ERADICATORS was that they weren't slot efficient enough and needed to be buffed in that regards? Or that they needed to be buffed with new weapons?



This is too extreme levels of absurd to even be annoying, just..... just... what?

Among people that play space marines on other forums and at the new store I go to. More or less everyone was worried if sm will have enough slots, and , which ended up to be true, if scouts stop being a cheap troop option. With everything else going up in points, starting with characters and relics and ending with troops, transports and weapon options, no is going to be able to run that mythical 18 erdictor list. And we play 2250pts here, people here claim they play 2000pts and less, so this is even less of a problem.

Ice_can wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


Include the armorium cherubs, for that first round you're getting 14 wounds out even after moving (i.e. from further away or from safely disembarking) with no buffs, which is categorically better than the heavy eradicators with multimelta standing still.

They're both good units, both have quirks in different ways and on the face of it eradicators are slightly better but retributors are more flexible imo.

Atleast you haven't gone radio silence when confronted with numbers so I'll try and be as civil avout this as I can.

So your saying make them more expensive with one use only buffs and they get better, than eradicators but nothing like the durability.

Also this isnt using things like Salamanders and other strategum buffs to make the eradicators more efficent that they get every turn for 0 points for adding a facrion keyword.

You're also ignoring miracle dice, orders, strats etc for both sides, the fact retributors get cheaper easier to access transports, can split fire and are more mobile as well.

Yes eradicators will do notably more damage if you park them up on a spot and just stand still firing at 1 target every turn. But there is more to the game than just mathematical damage output. Are eradicators too good and too cheap, absolutely. Are the only unit in the game with those sorts of numbers, not at all.

 Blackie wrote:

Spoletta wrote:


Yes, and that's why I said that compared well damage/point wise, so you telling me that they don't compare well in thoughness, doesn't exactly count as a counter argument

Comparisons make sense only considering the units as a whole Better if also taking into account the actual impact they have on their armies and the meta. Damage/point wise means nothing without comparing toughness as those sisters will fire one turn and then evaporate, while those SM will likely fire multiple times and they're also easier to spam, I don't think many sororitas armies will bring more than a unit of retributors.

I can deal with a single glasscannon unit that can kill a land raider in one turn, I probably can't if I have to face three, which aren't even glasscannon, on top on a top tier army.

Overall Eradicators are way better than Multimelta retributors.

Correct, but you have to learn how to answer.

If you answer to a statement which says "Damage wise x is better than y", you don't answer "Not at all! y is more durable than y!" like you did, because that automatically makes you wrong.
You answer "Ok, but if you consider the durability of those units, then y is better than x" and the discussion can go on. Easy isn't it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


Include the armorium cherubs, for that first round you're getting 14 wounds out even after moving (i.e. from further away or from safely disembarking) with no buffs, which is categorically better than the heavy eradicators with multimelta standing still.

They're both good units, both have quirks in different ways and on the face of it eradicators are slightly better but retributors are more flexible imo.

Atleast you haven't gone radio silence when confronted with numbers so I'll try and be as civil avout this as I can.

So your saying make them more expensive with one use only buffs and they get better, than eradicators but nothing like the durability.

Also this isnt using things like Salamanders and other strategum buffs to make the eradicators more efficent that they get every turn for 0 points for adding a facrion keyword.

I missed your answer, but yes I was considering the cherubs in it.

Dudeface wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


Include the armorium cherubs, for that first round you're getting 14 wounds out even after moving (i.e. from further away or from safely disembarking) with no buffs, which is categorically better than the heavy eradicators with multimelta standing still.

They're both good units, both have quirks in different ways and on the face of it eradicators are slightly better but retributors are more flexible imo.

Atleast you haven't gone radio silence when confronted with numbers so I'll try and be as civil avout this as I can.

So your saying make them more expensive with one use only buffs and they get better, than eradicators but nothing like the durability.

Also this isnt using things like Salamanders and other strategum buffs to make the eradicators more efficent that they get every turn for 0 points for adding a facrion keyword.

You're also ignoring miracle dice, orders, strats etc for both sides, the fact retributors get cheaper easier to access transports, can split fire and are more mobile as well.

Yes eradicators will do notably more damage if you park them up on a spot and just stand still firing at 1 target every turn. But there is more to the game than just mathematical damage output. Are eradicators too good and too cheap, absolutely. Are the only unit in the game with those sorts of numbers, not at all.

Yeah The numbers where done to respond to retributors do more damage than eradicators which they don't base.

I'm not familiar enough with sisters of battle to know all the buffs they can stack but if you do I'd be interested in the numbers as compairing them to units in multiple armies I own they look rediculous.

Dudeface wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Beyond eradicators, which somehow managed to dive straight off the deep end in the codex, the rest seems fine however. Bladeguard are still a touch cheap but that's easily fixed.

but will they be?

this was the time to fix it

Their transport got nerfed and they don't get full rerolls any more, there's plenty of reasons they maybe want to wait and see what the community do. It's not like they do a pass of all points every year.

bladeguard are still core, so they get all the rerolls they used to.

 warmaster21 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

Yes, and that's why I said that compared well damage/point wise, so you telling me that they don't compare well in thoughness, doesn't exactly count as a counter argument

Excpet they don't eradicators are Flat out better
Heck I layed out the maths for you, but as usual it was ignored as it showed your point to be untrue.

Retributors cost 15 points per wound to a Russ
Eradicators cost 13 points per wound or 10 points per wound done thats not even remotely comparable.

And they can both be buffed to be more efficent.

Include the armorium cherubs, for that first round you're getting 14 wounds out even after moving (i.e. from further away or from safely disembarking) with no buffs, which is categorically better than the heavy eradicators with multimelta standing still.

They're both good units, both have quirks in different ways and on the face of it eradicators are slightly better but retributors are more flexible imo.

Dont drag our retributers into this, unlike the special snowflake marines we dont have 500 different AT options to choose from, we have melta weapons and the exorcist, end of list.

retributors have been brought up as they're a non marine melta unit that we know will be boosted by these weapons changes and thus is a solid point of comparison.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


Include the armorium cherubs, for that first round you're getting 14 wounds out even after moving (i.e. from further away or from safely disembarking) with no buffs, which is categorically better than the heavy eradicators with multimelta standing still.

They're both good units, both have quirks in different ways and on the face of it eradicators are slightly better but retributors are more flexible imo.

Atleast you haven't gone radio silence when confronted with numbers so I'll try and be as civil avout this as I can.

So your saying make them more expensive with one use only buffs and they get better, than eradicators but nothing like the durability.

Also this isnt using things like Salamanders and other strategum buffs to make the eradicators more efficent that they get every turn for 0 points for adding a facrion keyword.

You're also ignoring miracle dice, orders, strats etc for both sides, the fact retributors get cheaper easier to access transports, can split fire and are more mobile as well.

Yes eradicators will do notably more damage if you park them up on a spot and just stand still firing at 1 target every turn. But there is more to the game than just mathematical damage output. Are eradicators too good and too cheap, absolutely. Are the only unit in the game with those sorts of numbers, not at all.

Yeah The numbers where done to respond to retributors do more damage than eradicators which they don't base.

I'm not familiar enough with sisters of battle to know all the buffs they can stack but if you do I'd be interested in the numbers as compairing them to units in multiple armies I own they look rediculous.

ok, so with mircle dice each time you gain one, you roll a D6 and bank it, and you can then put that dice aside and use it to replace a certain roll. obviously it's VEEEEERY popular for people to save their 5s and 6s for melta damage.

Chief Apothecary and Eradicators. No reroll hits (don't need them, really), but the ability to make them stick around seems quite strong.

Doctrines are as is. Even without Salamanders this will be stupid strong.

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-codex-space-marines-9th-edition/

Holy gak. This guy. This fething guy. He loses the re-roll abilty he had before, but picks up the old Selfless Healer Warlord trait that lets him heal two models instead of one. Now hold on, you might be saying, what if I wanted to take Father of the Future for that 6+ ignore wounds? Well, you’re in luck, because that’s now baked into the Apothecary’s datasheet (though notably, it now has no bonus effect for Iron Hands, who instead have to live with the same 6+ as everyone else gets. Boo hoo). So for +15 pts, you’re essentially getting both of the Faith & Fury Warlord Traits with the option of a new-and-improved Selfless Healer, which makes him heal a flat 3 wounds instead of d3 on both of his targets, and also lets them use the new Combat Revival stratagem for free, letting them revive a dead model at full wounds without having to spend your precious CP. You can also give him the Acquittal relic bolt pistol, which has a decent profile at strength 5, AP-3, damage 2. It only gets better when you point it at an INFANTRY model, though, since it always wounds on a 2+ and goes up to an impressive damage 4.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


regarding nightlords, apparently reivers are getting a rule that removes obsec from nearby units' I'd not be at all suprised if that ended up as part of the night lords chapter tactics when C:CSM came out

Don't get my hopes up. That would be wicked.

oh boy , that would be so dope and actually make sense.

stratigo wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Beyond eradicators, which somehow managed to dive straight off the deep end in the codex, the rest seems fine however. Bladeguard are still a touch cheap but that's easily fixed.

but will they be?

this was the time to fix it

Their transport got nerfed and they don't get full rerolls any more, there's plenty of reasons they maybe want to wait and see what the community do. It's not like they do a pass of all points every year.

bladeguard are still core, so they get all the rerolls they used to.

I thought chapter master was only full reroll hits for characters now? Or was that a typo?

Dudeface wrote:

stratigo wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Beyond eradicators, which somehow managed to dive straight off the deep end in the codex, the rest seems fine however. Bladeguard are still a touch cheap but that's easily fixed.

but will they be?

this was the time to fix it

Their transport got nerfed and they don't get full rerolls any more, there's plenty of reasons they maybe want to wait and see what the community do. It's not like they do a pass of all points every year.

bladeguard are still core, so they get all the rerolls they used to.

I thought chapter master was only full reroll hits for characters now? Or was that a typo?

I'm fairly sure the CM selects one unit of core or a character to get Rerolls for a turn. Which can be bladguard, and likely would be on the turn they are pushing an objective

Cool, well now we know eradicators are dumb in their current form and price, shall we all mutually agree to let this thread die?

Kinda feel the purpose is served overall.

Hey, I don’t think it’s gotten mentioned yet here, but the heavy rifles and Multimelta on them isn’t free. They’re 40 base, +5 for the heavy rifle, +10 for the Multimelta.

 AduroT wrote:
Hey, I don’t think it’s gotten mentioned yet here, but the heavy rifles and Multimelta on them isn’t free. They’re 40 base, +5 for the heavy rifle, +10 for the Multimelta.

Well that's like 5% less busted but they're still way undercosted.

 AduroT wrote:
Hey, I don’t think it’s gotten mentioned yet here, but the heavy rifles and Multimelta on them isn’t free. They’re 40 base, +5 for the heavy rifle, +10 for the Multimelta.

No that is important - thanks

BrianDavion wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
I will be shocked if all future Space Marine lists don't start with

Chapter Master
LT

Intercessors x5
Intercessors x5
Intercessors x5

3x 6 Eradicators (720pts)
3x 6 Aggressors (720pts)

if by start you mean "and then choose if they want a chaplain or a librarian" then maybe. that list is about 1900 points.

True, you poor guys, only being able to obliterate about 80ish Ork boyz a turn and destroy 6 buggies/trukkz a turn, woe is you.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Why would I spend my time bitching about Aggressors (and setting up disingenuous comparisons by using max shots - not you)?
And low and behold the anticipated nerf was real. Waiting was appropriate, was it not?

Yep, what a hell of a nerf it was to! Instead of killing an entire mob each turn with 4 they can only kill 2/3rds of a mob with 6. So now it takes them 1.5 turns to earn back their points shooting at boyz instead of 1 turn. Again, you poor guys, how will you ever make do with such weak units.

Spoletta wrote:

That's what shocks me too.
All of the codex changes are truly nice, both for the SM and for the rest of the game.
Then you read eradicators...
Are we going to see the SM being turned into a mid/high tier faction that is propelled into OP due to an unbalanced datasheet?

Again, Truly nice is relative. The basic intercessor squad is better at ranged combat then Ork shoota boys of similar point value and the intercessor squad is as good if not BETTER than the average choppa Ork mob of similar point value. And that is before you add in any buffs at all.

Aggressors obliterate 2/3rds of a mob a turn and that isn't even getting into anything else the codex has. Eradicators are just the cherry on top.

BrianDavion wrote:

in fairness when people say "but your unit is crap" what they're saying is "no one ever uses this unit if they're remotely compeitive, and we've been saying they need to be buffed for ages"

So compare Ork boyz to intercessors, compare tankbustas to Eradicators, compare shoota boyz or any anti-infantry ork unit to Aggressors. How does that work out? SM's even before their new codex leaks were better across the board. And ork boyz and tankbustas were being used in competitive lists.

Karol wrote:
Well now that the codex has been leaked, the rules look fine. Erdictors got the 6 man unit with option to combat squads and a Multi Melta in every 3 dudes, which is nice, because some people were worried that they would be caped at 3 men. Now they are a lot more slot efficient.

enter the player saying the rules look fine even though there is literally no unit in the game remotely close to as good as this is right now.

Karol wrote:
Veteran intercessors for assault marines are a thing, so maybe those people who wanted to play a melee horde are going to find a slot for them. Hand flamers and melee weapons for all sgts not just assault intercessors ones are nice too.

Nothing like having basic infantry being as efficient as assault oriented armies infantry.

Karol wrote:
Bummer about the aggresors nerf to all people that stocked up on them, but who knows, maybe they are still worth it. Am not a good player enough to judge the changes in points and rules.

Sorry SM players, your easy button now requires you to push it....twice. 1 Aggressor = 40pts, kills between 3-4 boyz a turn or 24-32pts no buffs required.

Dudeface wrote:
Beyond eradicators, which somehow managed to dive straight off the deep end in the codex, the rest seems fine however. Bladeguard are still a touch cheap but that's easily fixed.

Haven't seen all the leaks yet, but somehow its hilarious you guys all think Aggressors are ok now. 12 shots per model against their chosen target, without buffs killing 3-4 models a turn.

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
No brian, you don't get that favour, the comparisons were allready made to good units.

You wanting to argue further dishonestly is a squarly YOU issue.

no dude, I'm pointing out that ALL Melta weapons are being buffed, and therefore, you must examine eradicators in that light. I gave you a perfectly acceptable point of comparison. a fairly recent unit from another codex. that we know will get it's weapon changed in X a way.

The comparison isn't to Melta weapons, the comparison is to Anti-tank weapons. And again, the best anti-tank unit in my army is arguably the Tankbusta which can't do a fraction of what eradicators can now do.

Dudeface wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Beyond eradicators, which somehow managed to dive straight off the deep end in the codex, the rest seems fine however. Bladeguard are still a touch cheap but that's easily fixed.

but will they be?

this was the time to fix it

Their transport got nerfed and they don't get full rerolls any more, there's plenty of reasons they maybe want to wait and see what the community do. It's not like they do a pass of all points every year.

The math isn't hard, 3 eradicators with heavies and 1 multi-melta are getting 8 shots a turn if they don't move, thats 5-6 hits on average. They are wounding T5-7 vehicles 3-4 times on average, with -4 they are bypassing almost everyones normal saves and if they don't have a invuln they are on average doing enough to pop most of those vehicles.

Dudeface wrote:


Just ask your opponent not to bring 18 eradicators, or don't bring anything they're good at killing. Not ideal but if you're that worried it's the best way.

I'm sure Tournament organizers will hop right on that.

Karol wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:


WHAT discussion have you been reading where the concern about ERADICATORS was that they weren't slot efficient enough and needed to be buffed in that regards? Or that they needed to be buffed with new weapons?



This is too extreme levels of absurd to even be annoying, just..... just... what?

Among people that play space marines on other forums and at the new store I go to. More or less everyone was worried if sm will have enough slots, and , which ended up to be true, if scouts stop being a cheap troop option. With everything else going up in points, starting with characters and relics and ending with troops, transports and weapon options, no is going to be able to run that mythical 18 erdictor list. And we play 2250pts here, people here claim they play 2000pts and less, so this is even less of a problem.

Eradicators were considered the strongest unit in the entire game, and the #1 unit in need of a nerf, by almost the entirety of the competitive community including every single reasonable SM player I've seen (yes, they are rarity on this particular website I'm aware). But to react to them getting buffs by saying "phew, seems there was nothing to worry about, this was the ideal outcome" just displays that you are so far fething disconnected from the competitive scene that you should not be spouting out anywhere near the amount of declarations on the state of faction balance as you do.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Chief Apothecary and Eradicators. No reroll hits (don't need them, really), but the ability to make them stick around seems quite strong.

Doctrines are as is. Even without Salamanders this will be stupid strong.

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-codex-space-marines-9th-edition/

Holy gak. This guy. This fething guy. He loses the re-roll abilty he had before, but picks up the old Selfless Healer Warlord trait that lets him heal two models instead of one. Now hold on, you might be saying, what if I wanted to take Father of the Future for that 6+ ignore wounds? Well, you’re in luck, because that’s now baked into the Apothecary’s datasheet (though notably, it now has no bonus effect for Iron Hands, who instead have to live with the same 6+ as everyone else gets. Boo hoo). So for +15 pts, you’re essentially getting both of the Faith & Fury Warlord Traits with the option of a new-and-improved Selfless Healer, which makes him heal a flat 3 wounds instead of d3 on both of his targets, and also lets them use the new Combat Revival stratagem for free, letting them revive a dead model at full wounds without having to spend your precious CP. You can also give him the Acquittal relic bolt pistol, which has a decent profile at strength 5, AP-3, damage 2. It only gets better when you point it at an INFANTRY model, though, since it always wounds on a 2+ and goes up to an impressive damage 4.

Why waste it on a 3-wound Eradicator when you can bring back an 8-wound ATV?