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Racerguy180 wrote:
More realistically, I hope that the new codex format actually means something other than new layout....I know, I know hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

Aside from the cleaner datasheet layout from Indomitus/the starters, and the promised inclusion of Crusade material and faction secondary objectives, what would you want to see in this new codex format?

dunno, maybe more lore, customizing, a hobby tutorial or 2(like they used to)?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
As with every gw preview I must ask: WILL THEY FINALLY SHOW US THE NEW FW BOOKS?

I'm almost positive that FW is going to be folded into GW proper and Resin will be completed forced out by 2025.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:
More realistically, I hope that the new codex format actually means something other than new layout....I know, I know hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

Aside from the cleaner datasheet layout from Indomitus/the starters, and the promised inclusion of Crusade material and faction secondary objectives, what would you want to see in this new codex format?

I'm calling it now. Remember how CA2020 was two small books. All the data sheets and points will be in a small portable book that comes paired with the hardback codex. The hardback will have lore, paint tips, crusade rules, missions, pictures and art. The tiny book will have the game stuff.

They could go back to the old style of Codex- whereby points, upgrade options and stats are all on the single page for a model. Rather than model on one page; points on another; weapons on another; points for weapons on another etc... Back in the 3rd ed and such codex you could see all a single unit could do on a single page, perhaps two for some big character units. Now you have to keep flipping back and forth all the time.

 Overread wrote:
They could go back to the old style of Codex- whereby points, upgrade options and stats are all on the single page for a model. Rather than model on one page; points on another; weapons on another; points for weapons on another etc... Back in the 3rd ed and such codex you could see all a single unit could do on a single page, perhaps two for some big character units. Now you have to keep flipping back and forth all the time.

Would make updating points less easy though. It would come down to:

"page X, tactical marine. Y pts per model. Lascannon Z pts each"
"page X, devastator marine, G pts per model, Lascannon J pts each"

Quick everybody! build up your unrealistic expectations so that you can moan, groan and complain on the day about it being "underwhelming".

I just want them to finally reveal those goddamn models from The 'New Edition, New Models" video

 Overread wrote:
I'm guessing this means we will see some of those models they teased for other factions revealed in full or teased some more. They might show off others and perhaps we'll see a road map for at least the next two to three codex for 40K being updated/released (or at least the next one after Necrons/Marines).

Considering that November is clearly tangled up with AoS releases (Morathi and Slaanesh) then that would leave December with ample time to get at least one more codex out for 40K.

I doubt it, it says the codex edition, we know for a fact that not everything has been revealed, the primaris land speeder for example. and I bet there's some necron stuff yet to be revealed

 Overread wrote:
They could go back to the old style of Codex- whereby points, upgrade options and stats are all on the single page for a model. Rather than model on one page; points on another; weapons on another; points for weapons on another etc... Back in the 3rd ed and such codex you could see all a single unit could do on a single page, perhaps two for some big character units. Now you have to keep flipping back and forth all the time.

It could be worse. It could be the 5th Edition Codices where you had:

1. Unit profiles and special rules on one page.
2. Unit profiles (again), but no special rules, but points and options.
3. A separate "Wargear" section that had all the weapon rules.
4. Except it didn't, because so many of the weapon entries had "see page X", which led you back to the first point, as some unit entries had unique weapon rules. I think the most notorious example of this was the 5th Ed Guard Codex, which had a "Vehicle Armoury" section consisting of 31 separate entries, of which 23 were references to other parts of the book (or the core rulebook)! Why even have that section if it's just going to reference other pages in three quarters of its entries?

5th Ed Codices were a complete mess.

I'm not expecting much to change with the "new format", probably just the new style icons for the data sheets for the profiles and weapons etc.

Since nothing has been heard regarding forge world, it makes me wonder if FW stuff will just be included in the faction codex now, especially as the rules are done by the same team. Unlikely though, because fW rules are another revenue stream in addition to the codex.

Aash wrote:
I'm not expecting much to change with the "new format", probably just the new style icons for the data sheets for the profiles and weapons etc.

Since nothing has been heard regarding forge world, it makes me wonder if FW stuff will just be included in the faction codex now, especially as the rules are done by the same team. Unlikely though, because fW rules are another revenue stream in addition to the codex.

It would be so immensly pro consumer, that it would probably get you fired if you ever brought it up in a GW board meeting...

 Hollow wrote:
Quick everybody! build up your unrealistic expectations so that you can moan, groan and complain on the day about it being "underwhelming".

I'm at the point where I'm happy to see the world burn - reveal that marines were under performing compared to their expectations so they're actually getting 5 new army wide special rules that basically make everyone else redundant. Chaos confirmed to get a 10% tax on any items that loyalists have because of the spikes. New faction: Xenos - this will be a consolidated book of generic profiles to use in single players, balanced against the new marine rules so they lose every time.

In reality, I think the last few kits will be shown off and given the previews on facebook we might get a "here's the next few books after" or due to the way the chaos tarot cards are spread possibly a book for each of the last 2 main legions. Possibly the end of the "daemons codex".

Dudeface wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
Quick everybody! build up your unrealistic expectations so that you can moan, groan and complain on the day about it being "underwhelming".

I'm at the point where I'm happy to see the world burn - reveal that marines were under performing compared to their expectations so they're actually getting 5 new army wide special rules that basically make everyone else redundant. Chaos confirmed to get a 10% tax on any items that loyalists have because of the spikes. New faction: Xenos - this will be a consolidated book of generic profiles to use in single players, balanced against the new marine rules so they lose every time.

In reality, I think the last few kits will be shown off and given the previews on facebook we might get a "here's the next few books after" or due to the way the chaos tarot cards are spread possibly a book for each of the last 2 main legions. Possibly the end of the "daemons codex".

Oh no, it's an iron warrior that has ascended peak salt! He has , dare i say it, become a salbliterator.



Ok jokes aside, i think you are spot on, but maybee gw surprises us ?

I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.

the_scotsman wrote:
I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.

What do you with the non god aligned legions? which allready took a comparative backseat to the mono ones?

Allbeit a propper legion dex, a propper Daemonsdex, and a chaos fodder dex would solve most issues if done propperly.

I'm still betting on gw giving csm the same treatment as loyalists: one big codex covering all the legions + supplements for each legion including the Chaos botherers. Because that = more $$$.

the_scotsman wrote:
I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.

But as Not Online!!! asks: what of the non-chaos worshipping legions?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
But as Not Online!!! asks: what of the non-chaos worshipping legions?

Conveniently forgotten.

IF GW did what they did in AoS then we'd see 4 mono-god factions with their own book and then a single "Chaos" army book which covers the greater bulk of those who either support all the gods or none at all.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'm still betting on gw giving csm the same treatment as loyalists: one big codex covering all the legions + supplements for each legion including the Chaos botherers. Because that = more $$$.

the_scotsman wrote:
I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.

But as Not Online!!! asks: what of the non-chaos worshipping legions?

They're not chaos space marines, they're renegade marines

In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.

End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.

But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.

Overread wrote:IF GW did what they did in AoS then we'd see 4 mono-god factions with their own book and then a single "Chaos" army book which covers the greater bulk of those who either support all the gods or none at all.

And how well is that second group handled, might I ask?

terry wrote:

Spoiler:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'm still betting on gw giving csm the same treatment as loyalists: one big codex covering all the legions + supplements for each legion including the Chaos botherers. Because that = more $$$.

the_scotsman wrote:
I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.

But as Not Online!!! asks: what of the non-chaos worshipping legions?

They're not chaos space marines, they're renegade marines

No, they're not, they're the original Traitor Legions that have been fighting The Long War for 10,000 years.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
But as Not Online!!! asks: what of the non-chaos worshipping legions?

Conveniently forgotten.

At which point I'd conveniently forget 40k.

It seems like the "big book+Supplements" approach is probably the most permissive way to handle chaos.

....Though I would like to see Renegades as a separate book with access to all the imperial equipment, or even a "Brood Brothers' Style rule that allows you to bring stuff like Primaris, the loyalist-specific guns and tanks and things, over to chaos.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Overread wrote:IF GW did what they did in AoS then we'd see 4 mono-god factions with their own book and then a single "Chaos" army book which covers the greater bulk of those who either support all the gods or none at all.

And how well is that second group handled, might I ask?

It's "Slaves to Darkness". Model wise they've a huge roster of choices and recently got a new getting started set with chaos warriors and knights inside (though we've yet to see GW release them solo). Balance wise they were the last army to get a 2.0 Battletome so there's some residual "they are the worst" hanging around because they came late to the 2.0 party (someone had to be last). Otherwise I've not seen any strong pro nor con arguments based on their current book which would suggest to me that they are doing well in the middle. Not supremely underpowered and not overpowered.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar?N=647457687+4166110358&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AGB_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+<%3D+1599573060000+and+product.endDate+>%3D+1599573060000%5D



For 40K I would expect to see the Demon books do well solo if just because they'd already have access to Chaos Marine variations of their own. In AoS armies like Slaanesh have suffered a bit in model diversity because they didn't have mono god themed warriors for a long time. So it was mostly reliant on the demon models. That is steadily changing as GW releases more, Khorne and Nurgle have done very well out of it so far in terms of mono-god focused models for mortals.

the_scotsman wrote:
In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.

End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.

But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.

I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.

the_scotsman wrote:It seems like the "big book+Supplements" approach is probably the most permissive way to handle chaos.

....Though I would like to see Renegades as a separate book with access to all the imperial equipment, or even a "Brood Brothers' Style rule that allows you to bring stuff like Primaris, the loyalist-specific guns and tanks and things, over to chaos.

That could work. As long as they keep primaris out of The Legions.

Dudeface wrote:

Spoiler:

the_scotsman wrote:
In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.

End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.

But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.

I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.

But how do they compare to the Space Corgis?

@Overread: Thanks for the lowdown. Nice models. Interesting to see they have actual models for Chosen....

Dudeface wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.

End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.

But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.

I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.

Combined between the Angels, they have about twice as many Unique units than Death Guard do.

Not Online!!! wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.

What do you with the non god aligned legions? which allready took a comparative backseat to the mono ones?

Allbeit a propper legion dex, a propper Daemonsdex, and a chaos fodder dex would solve most issues if done propperly.

IMO a proper represantation of the chaos faction would look like this:
- Daemons (Mono-God, summoned, chaos undivided)
- Knights (as they are now)
- CSM: Legions (big book including TS and DG without reducing their options)
- CSM: Renegades (know renegades like fallen, "build your own renegade chapter" with access to a mix of loyalist and chaos options, similar to ynnari)
- Traitor Guard (chaos regiments, cults)

 Jidmah wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.

What do you with the non god aligned legions? which allready took a comparative backseat to the mono ones?

Allbeit a propper legion dex, a propper Daemonsdex, and a chaos fodder dex would solve most issues if done propperly.

IMO a proper represantation of the chaos faction would look like this:
- Daemons (Mono-God, summoned, chaos undivided)
- Knights (as they are now)
- CSM: Legions (big book including TS and DG without reducing their options)
- CSM: Renegades (know renegades like fallen, "build your own renegade chapter" with access to a mix of loyalist and chaos options, similar to ynnari)
- Traitor Guard (chaos regiments, cults)

that would certainly work, i am unsure if you don't want to combine renegades and legions into one book with 2 lists (heresy i know, and also custommer friendly but still heresy.)
but yeah that WOULD do better then what we have now IF gw actually sits down for all off 5 minutes and actually makes mono daemons viable just aswell as mixed daemons.

Same with Legions and renegades.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.

End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.

But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.

I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.

Combined between the Angels, they have about twice as many Unique units than Death Guard do.

I forgot how many special characters they had to be fair, there's 10 unique hq's in BA alone

Its another miss from me... There is a pattern:

Will be a bunch of waffle about how amazing stuff is going to be and how excited everyone is.
They will tease some rules that already exist in the current codexes, co9ndirm codex will give you rules, and then reveal some space marine model we know is coming.