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My limited understanding is that HeroQuest was first an idea to be part of RuneQuest back in the day (70s and 80s), but the guys behind never actually got around to publishing it despite talking it up in a few publications at the time. Hasbro/GW published HeroQuest in '89 and got the trademark, which scuppered the plans for the RuneQuest bit.

However, when they stopped printing HeroQuest, neither company apparently kept up the trademark and the "original" idea holder applied for and was granted the trademark in the early 2000s. However, that doesn't invalidate Hasbro's copyright on the actually-published game and then how those two interact is undoubtedly a muddled space I wouldn't want to wander into without at least few dedicated semesters of law. That trademark currently belongs with Chaosium if I understand things correctly.

I imagine that Hasbro kept up some of the IP matters, but perhaps not in all jurisdictions. This could be what allowed GameZone the veneer of legality because they may have been able to get the copyright/trademark in Spain, but then would have been barred from distributing most anywhere else (Macross fans in the US can likely empathize with how this scenario plays out).

There seems to be a decent write-up at: https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/9337-heroquest-ip-history/

Chaosium has sold the trademark to Hasbro and all Heroquest branded RPG material will be rebranded.

https://www.chaosium.com/blogmoon-design-publications-transfers-ownership-of-the-heroquest-trademark-to-hasbro/

I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for the Chaosium - Hasbro discussions.

Well, not really.

But I'm curious to know how much Hasbro paid to get the trademark back.

Bucket of cash or you guys could just sue us, I suppose..

 pancakeonions wrote:
But... Hasbro has said they will ship beyond US/Canada... From just a few posts above: https://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/2020/hero-quest-relaunch-nur-in-nordamerika/ (translation: bully for you if you don't live in NA)

Just after the initial North American shipments go out.

I don't pretend to understand why they're doing it this way, but it sounds like it will eventually make its way 'round the world.

Albeit without access to the bonus miniatures and unlocks, which are exclusive to Hasbropulse. Admittedly, not all of those are that interesting, but some variant sculpts are still a nice inclusion.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Is there a brief history of why international HeroQuest rights are so messed up?

They're sort of not really. But the thing is that trademarks do lapse if you don't keep using them, and then other people register them in some territories and not others, then things get fragmented.

Hasbro have lost the trademarks to a lot of names of popular Transformers over the years because they spent several years not caring about the original cast very much and other people jumped on them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Is there a brief history of why international HeroQuest rights are so messed up?

There is probably something in the 40 page thread of doom & despair down in the boardgames forum!

I can't bring myself to go and have a read though I'm afraid, feel like I am grave-robbing

 Pacific wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Is there a brief history of why international HeroQuest rights are so messed up?

There is probably something in the 40 page thread of doom & despair down in the boardgames forum!

I can't bring myself to go and have a read though I'm afraid, feel like I am grave-robbing

The current trademark rights are all in the hands of Hasbro.
The rights are not all messed up at all, as it seems that Hasbro owns the trademark practically everywhere until 2025.
The only thing messed up is that Hasbro doesn’t seem interested in producing localized copies yet.
That’s likely the main issue with an EU release and not trademark rights. Like in Quebec (and why it’s not being sold there either), a large corporation like Hasbro is more inclined to not push any regional packaging laws.
That’s my assumption based on all I’ve read so far.

The Pulsecon panel didn’t reveal much but they have a lot more stretch goals planned after $2 million with new minis and alternate sculpts. Joe Manganiello hosted and revealed he designed some scenarios which include a new boss mini - it’s the $4 million goal - it didn’t come across like a joke but who knows? No mention about international orders and they never mentioned GW despite going into the design of the original game. They also mentioned that whilst the rules are the same as the original some of the stretch goals will have new rules.

That's going to be hard to make it to $4million considering they've locked out the International and likely most of the Canadian markets. Plus its not like a wargame or some of the larger boardgames where there are a lot of models/addons which adds up to a lot per customer.

Every third or fourth post to the live chat was

INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING

Jeez. you'd think they'd get a clue...

It really seams like they looks at a lot of these KSers that pull in money like that and think it's something they can easily do but not realize how SGs, addons and yes international sales lead to that.

Trademarks don't work the same way in the USA vs. internationally. In the USA, it's "use it or lose it" while, internationally, someone can practice "trademark squatting" where they trademark a name and wait for someone to buy it off of them. I'm not saying that's the case, but I'm pretty much with Krinsath, in that we'd need some real understanding about international law -- not that IP laws have ever been definitive -- instead of the usual internet armchair quarterbacking that IP discussions usually devolve to (how many pages were those Hex vs. WotC discussions again???).

It's risk / reward. Hasbro is located in the USA and knows that Heroquest is more popular there, so that's where they're focusing first. They may make less *revenue* in the HQ crowdfunder, but revenue isn't profits. I doubt there's a suit at Hasbro willing to have a private talk with his boss if the project has an international IP problem.

EDIT: Not simple like HQ, but Dungeon Universalis looks like a good hobby-level dungeoncrawler for campaign gaming, though you'd have to proxy the miniatures.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2461512/dungeon-universalis-review

 Ghool wrote:
Like in Quebec (and why it’s not being sold there either), a large corporation like Hasbro is more inclined to not push any regional packaging laws.
That’s my assumption based on all I’ve read so far.

Two reasons come to mind why Hasbro isn't shipping this to Quebec:

1: Laws related to language used on commercial products. Quebec is really anal about using French and Hasbro doesn't want to spend money producing alternate-language material.

2: Quebec has stronger consumer protection laws than the rest of Canada. You can get away with some shady practices elsewhere, but not Quebec.

In addition to the official campaign, I was inspired to update some of my old stuff like I've been planning for years. Ordered some 3F printed doors off ebay that are much nicer than the cardboard ones, but I also wanted a mousepad material board, and found one already available! Ordered it Sept 23 and it just came in today, and it is REALLY nice! Not cheap, mat was $50 and it was another $20 to ship, but I highly recommended for anyone who like mousepad mats for boardgames (I wish more board games would make these available, they hit my Gamer OCD just right).

https://shop.x-raypad.com/shop/soft-rubber-heroquest-gaming-boards-custom-playmat/

Website doesn't have an image of what you get, but fortunately somebody filmed a review and put it on youtube, which is what convinced me to try it and I agree that it is every bit as good, and slightly oversized to fit larger models better

$1.8 million and 33 days to go in case you're wondering.

https://hasbropulse.com/products/heroquest-game-system

They’re either very lucky or very well researched in their stretch goals then, because they top out at $2m

 Jadenim wrote:
They’re either very lucky or very well researched in their stretch goals then, because they top out at $2m

During their PulseCon video, they hinted at having stretch goals out to $2 million.
Also, Joe M. is D&Ds celebrity spokesperson, and has featured as Deathstroke in the
Justice League movie post credits scene, and he had a recurring minor role on
How I Met Your Mother, as one of Marshall’s college buddies, and later rival lawyer in
Ah is first major court case on the show. I do believe he was also on the 90s sitcom Freaks and Geeks.

They hinted at having stretch goals at out to *4* million - that Joe fellow had some missions and a boss monster planned as the $4m reward. Which seems very ambitious, unless they plan on other activities to drum up interest in the interim. There might be a little bump at the end, but I doubt it'll be much (e.g., I didn't see a "remind me" button for undecided potential backers to get a nudge at the end of the campaign)

So far, there really hasn't been that much effort to get folks into this - and given that it's Hasbro (a billion dollar company that surely sees this as piddling amounts of $$$) I don't see much changing.

<rant>

3 of the female characters only available as a bonus is insulting!

Lack of international shipping is an annoyance, selling it through their own store is neither here nor there.

Only having the 3 additional female characters as a bonus is incredibly tone deaf in this day and age.

I'm sure their are many among us of a certain age old enough to have young children to play this with or nieces and nephews. Heroquest is a great place to start. Treating females as an optional bonus not so much.

Heck even the heel draggers at GW are starting to get the message. We aren't just selling to 10 year old boys anymore.

</rant>

Completely agreed. I was happy to see all characters got female variants (and it looks like the Warlock might *only* have a female version?)

But I see that only a few minis (Sir Ragnar? Maybe also the Witch Lord and Mentor male wizard) are "only available during the campaign" so my hope is that these figures will be available for folks who miss this campaign, but still want to pick up a copy of the game to play with their friends and family who might want to play a female dwarf!

 pancakeonions wrote:
Completely agreed. I was happy to see all characters got female variants (and it looks like the Warlock might *only* have a female version?)

But I see that only a few minis (Sir Ragnar? Maybe also the Witch Lord and Mentor male wizard) are "only available during the campaign" so my hope is that these figures will be available for folks who miss this campaign, but still want to pick up a copy of the game to play with their friends and family who might want to play a female dwarf!

I certainly hope so, especially the female dwarf.

---

With the negatives out of the way I can talk about the positives of this new release. The changed artwork and new miniatures will mean they can release new content with a consistent style. If they want to do more expansions which add more advanced rules they can keep it cohesive. Merely resurrecting the game as an unchanged reprint would make that task more difficult.

I feel neither one way nor the other about new art and designs, old and new both have their merits. However modern releases have a certain expectation and meeting that makes the product less niche than a 1 to 1 reprint of the original. I can see young players (or their parents) picking up the game, knowing nothing of the original, and enjoying this as a new product giving it a new lease of life.

HeroQuest and the heavier weight Space Crusade is part of what got me into the hobby in the first place, although I was painting Warhammer miniatures before then. The re-release of a light weight, child & family friendly dungeon crawler should be celebrated. Even if the method of its initial reissue is a bit of a shambles.

They've said specifically these female alternates are 'pulse' bonuses so unless you back via the pulse 'kickstarter' you won't get them

now that doesn't prevent them from offering a different female sculpt later if they do get to a retail release, but from the sound of it that's not terribly likely

so if you want to try and influence them drop them a line directly (and try not to let on your not from the USA as at least at the moment they're not paying attention to any other market)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
so if you want to try and influence them drop them a line directly (and try not to let on your not from the USA as at least at the moment they're not paying attention to any other market)

They're not paying much attention to the fact the world has moved on since the 1980s either, a single playable female in the standard set is their only concession to modernity. As you suggest I shall try contacting them directly. At least they will have heard the complaint. I hope the Bard hammers them for this in a future video.

Wait, is that true (i.e., no female variants if you miss the pulse)? I don't see that on the Pulse page, and don't remember hearing that...

Do you (or anyone else) remember where you heard that?

 pancakeonions wrote:
Wait, is that true (i.e., no female variants if you miss the pulse)? I don't see that on the Pulse page, and don't remember hearing that...

Do you (or anyone else) remember where you heard that?

The graphic right above them says "Pulse Bonus"

With a clearer mind after the crushing disappointment, crowd funding was not the way to go. Should have tested the waters with the core game first and done a proper international release. If it sold - which any fool knows it will - they could follow up with Return of the Witch Lord( the most popular expansion ) and then Kellars keep.

The UK would have been an easy sales victory as the game is practically synonymous with Games Workshop, where players are concerned. People can debate about the finer details of who owns the rights to the game, but to the game playing public it was simply MB Games and Games Workshop on the box. Whether GW were to be involved in the new edition or not, players would still make that connection through nostalgia alone.

It is without a doubt that Heroquest and Space Crusade boosted GW to super stardom in the games world back in the early 90s. Christ, even the girl next door had a copy and asked me "how does this s*** work?". And it didn't end at the tabletop neither - both games had home computer adaptations that rubbed shoulders with even the big name film licenses of the time. Heroquest even received the Return of the Witchlord expansion and both adaptations were well received.

I'm not going to speak for our european friends on how successful these two games were, but I do remember a trip to france( loved it ) and in the big department stores they had both games on display in glass cabinets near to those holding the all-conquering NES and top selling games of the time. It was strange seeing alternative art for Space Crusade, but do remember it well. Speaking of the NES there was a prototype of HQ made but for whatever reason was never released...

While time has moved on, Heroquest - at least - has an incredible legacy amongst players even today. Seriously, this feels like Disney finally getting the keys to LucasFilm and then crowdfunding Episode 7 for showing in America only...

Sigh...

...oh well...anyone up for a game of Hungry Hippos?

For those in New Zealand, Mighty Ape has done a deal with Hasbro by the looks of it, to get the game available in NZ.

 Ghool wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:
They’re either very lucky or very well researched in their stretch goals then, because they top out at $2m

During their PulseCon video, they hinted at having stretch goals out to $2 million.
Also, Joe M. is D&Ds celebrity spokesperson, and has featured as Deathstroke in the
Justice League movie post credits scene, and he had a recurring minor role on
How I Met Your Mother, as one of Marshall’s college buddies, and later rival lawyer in
Ah is first major court case on the show. I do believe he was also on the 90s sitcom Freaks and Geeks.

They’ve definitely got additional stretch goals to add.

If we read the creator’s blurbs, there’s another hero described, and a further quest book.

Whether said Quest Books will come with extra models, who knows!

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 pancakeonions wrote:
Wait, is that true (i.e., no female variants if you miss the pulse)? I don't see that on the Pulse page, and don't remember hearing that...

Do you (or anyone else) remember where you heard that?

The graphic right above them says "Pulse Bonus"

Exactly! Not limited or exclusive. So what do they mean by "bonus"?

The graphic for Sir Ragnar says "Limited Time Exclusives! The Heroic Tier features the fan-favorite character Sir Ragnar. This version of the character miniature will only be available during this campaign!" and I didn't see anywhere similar language for the four "pulse bonus" characters. But maybe I missed it? I presume those would be available retail (seems an easy win for Hasbro to do this, as the optics of excluding the female characters from retail seems worth avoiding?)