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As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?

Anyone can fall.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?

Why is it ok for Grey Knights to be immune and not others. After all hundreds of the thousands of Astartes have fallen across the millenia.

I'm not so sure about Custodes but the Adepta Sororitas are pretty numerous. If a Space Marine can fall to Chaos I don't really see what justification there is to say that SoB can't.

I imagine a lot of this is simply a case of factions doing no wrong in their own Codexes, and these factions in particular not getting an awful lot of fluff elsewhere. If you look at your average Marine Codex, they always get the big spiel about how "their faith is their armour" and they "know no fear" etc etc, but we all know there are exceptions to those "facts".

I could also see an argument for Custodes and Grey Knights being few enough in number that if any of them DID fall, it wouldn't be the most difficult thing in the world for their comrades to take them out and hush it up before it became widely known. The Dark Angels managed the latter half, after all.
Sisters... hmm... there's probably just too many of them about for that to be practical, so I reckon we're well overdue some crises of faith among them. We know they're at least slightly fallible, otherwise Repentia wouldn't exist.

 Super Ready wrote:
The Dark Angels managed the latter half, after all.

To be fair to the First Legion, they had the benefit of the rest of the Imperium being in utter chaos to cover it up during and they're constantly working to try and keep it secret from other Imperial factions(but don't seem to care that the 4th Sphere Tau know).

El Torro wrote:
I'm not so sure about Custodes but the Adepta Sororitas are pretty numerous. If a Space Marine can fall to Chaos I don't really see what justification there is to say that SoB can't.

You could argue that they have Faith to protect them - unlike the Marines (for the most part)

Or they already have their souls comitted to a power of the warp - the Emperor

Sort of the same thing.

Grey Knights were never immune before the Matt War Abomination Lore - in fact originally only a very few in the Chapter were psychic to protect them from possible possession.

Daemonifuge, which apparently is canon, explicitedly featured Chaos-corrupted Sororitas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
The Dark Angels managed the latter half, after all.

To be fair to the First Legion, they had the benefit of the rest of the Imperium being in utter chaos to cover it up during and they're constantly working to try and keep it secret from other Imperial factions(but don't seem to care that the 4th Sphere Tau know).

I've always found it a bit odd that the Dark Angels that abandoned ship 10,000 years ago are this DARK, ZEALOUSLY GUARDED SECRET, but that things in the Inner Circle are apparently far more casual in regards to the Dark Angels that have joined Chaos in the time since then and now.

Do post-HH renegade Dark Angels technically count as Fallen?

There is at least 1 sister of battle that was traitorous, I recall being in a inquisitor related novel. As for custodes: they may not have fallen to chaos, but they have fallen to aliens, there was a instance where the original custody fell to a space vampire, it mimic its shape to the custode, I recall that in a Salamanders novel, possibly HH.

For the Sororitas' infallibility, I think it's largely propaganda. It's probably rare that a sister falls to chaos since their zeal makes them paranoid about anyone straying even a little bit away from dogma, but it has to happen sometimes. When it does happen, the Ecclesiarchy certainly makes sure no one hears about it and tries to deal with it quietly.

The fact there are repentia means SoB are not infallible and do still have cases of disobedience and fleeing from battle. Similarly, the Death Korps of Krieg have this reputation for being almost like biological robots but in the Imperial Armour Siege of Vraks books, there is an instance of them breaking, retreating, and shooting their Commissars. A lot of the stuff written about factions is often propaganda, the idealized image they want to have. Even if largely true, there are still the exceptions to the rule. These exceptions are probably covered up and scrubbed from records if the blemish is too great.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Grey Knights were never immune before the Matt War Abomination Lore - in fact originally only a very few in the Chapter were psychic to protect them from possible possession.

I've got to call this out as incorrect - the Grey Knights have been all-psyker and completely incorruptible for as long as I've been playing, which would be 2nd ed. Specifically, they're covered in the 'Codex Imperialis' that came with the 2nd ed box and the Dark Millennium expansion.
Even that far back, their fluff uses words along the lines of "not a single member has ever turned traitor".

The biggest changes Matt Ward brought about was their use of power armour, and the sudden proliferation and variety of units. Prior to that, they were only available in squads of Terminators that you'd take as a special ally - kind of like you would Legion of the Damned.
I stand corrected, power armour came earlier than Ward.

 Tiennos wrote:
For the Sororitas' infallibility, I think it's largely propaganda. It's probably rare that a sister falls to chaos since their zeal makes them paranoid about anyone straying even a little bit away from dogma, but it has to happen sometimes. When it does happen, the Ecclesiarchy certainly makes sure no one hears about it and tries to deal with it quietly.

this was confirmed in.. I wanna say the SOB omnibus where it basicly says that when a sister falls to chaos they cover it up

Well on one hand the Grey Knights and Custodes ARE Mary Sue silver flavor and gold flavor.

On the other, it could be Imperial propaganda. And if you wanted you could always make a Lord or Sorcerer of Chaos out of those models for example.

As a matter of point my Warpsmith is a Sisters of Battle model

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
As a matter of point my Warpsmith is a Sisters of Battle model

Oh, come ON!! You can't just tease us like that and then not show it off!
I've gotta admit the Grey Knights have been a goldmine for psykery/mystical bits for all kinds of other factions' kitbashes over the years. I've got a Blood Angels Librarian that uses just a normal Strike squad torso and the curved hood that comes with it - and it really looks the part.

No SoB falling to Chaos at all? Sounds like Imperial Propaganda to me...

Jokes aside, SoB are human, and fanatical. That is a great combination for falling to chaos, rather on purpose or by accident. I can imagine that with them being the poster children of the Ecclesiarchy, any incidents are kept heavily under wraps. The Imperium has committed genocide for less...

 Super Ready wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Grey Knights were never immune before the Matt War Abomination Lore - in fact originally only a very few in the Chapter were psychic to protect them from possible possession.

I've got to call this out as incorrect - the Grey Knights have been all-psyker and completely incorruptible for as long as I've been playing, which would be 2nd ed. Specifically, they're covered in the 'Codex Imperialis' that came with the 2nd ed box.
Even that far back, their fluff uses words along the lines of "not a single member has ever turned traitor".

The biggest changes Matt Ward brought about was their use of power armour, and the sudden proliferation and variety of units. Prior to that, they were only available in squads of Terminators that you'd take as a special ally - kind of like you would Legion of the Damned.

Power armoured GKs first appeared in the 3rd ed Daemonhunter codex. They preceded the Mat Ward book by a fair few years.

Power armoured Grey Knights were in Rogue Trader.

El Torro wrote:
I'm not so sure about Custodes but the Adepta Sororitas are pretty numerous. If a Space Marine can fall to Chaos I don't really see what justification there is to say that SoB can't.

SoB are fanatically faithful. Space Marines are not. Half of the Space marines fell to chaos...that says to me they are slightly more susceptible to corruption that certain other factions. (though that was mostly the Primarch's fault). Even most top imperial guard regiments can boast a good record against corruption its not like the forces of the imperium fall to chaos that easy. I think the justification is pretty simple you see in most space marine chapters they lose their humanity so that is likely part of why they are most susceptible to chaos. There are exceptions of course like the Salamanders and Space Wolves...but i would imagine them to be more resistant to chaos than most.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous

Grey Knights have been known to commit the occasional blood sacrifice to Khorne...
But in all seriousness their armour and training probably includes a significant self-destruct if corrupted given they are warded in all kinds of anti-daemonic protections that would probably immolate them from the inside if they were to become possessed.

Possessed sisters are numerous in lore. However 'chaos sisters' wouldn't be much of a faction - without their faith they are just elite traitor guard, and their faith is significant protection given that it can literally burn daemons through sufficiently enthusiatic chanting.

The custodes up until recently have been as vague as the Emperor himself and as equally confined to the imperial palace, so there is no lore one way or another.

Ah ok, so I was incorrect on when power-armoured Grey Knights came in. Edited my original post to suit.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Power armoured Grey Knights were in Rogue Trader.

Say what? Really?! ...don't suppose they had models, by any chance? I know the Termie models date back to Rogue Trader, those sculpts were incredible.
Looked a little into it and a LOT changed for the Knights between 1st and 2nd ed.

"The Grey Knights are fully as effective as any other Marine Chapter. They are specially screened to exclude all but the strongest and most resilient psykers, a measure designed to prevent any Daemonic contamination. As a result, very few of the Grey Knights have any psychic power whatsoever. "
...
"Often entire companies are granted an audience with the Emperor, a privilege normally reserved for the Adeptus Custodes."

I can certainly recall a couple of stories where individual sisters of battle have gotten corrupted by chaos. I havn’t read deamonifuge. They are not immune to its influence. Where great knights and custodies are concerned I’m thinking it’s a case of size. If I where to say “no one has ever been corrupted by chaos from the 647th Cadian regiment” that’s not very impressive. The sisters outnumber the custodes and the GK by something like 10000000000:1 and they have been around for something like 6k years (can’t be bothered to double check the goge vandire rebellion). Of course they’ve fallen to chaos on many occasions. I assume the GK and custodes that get tempted and fall would be murdered on the spot by their brothers.

I think it's more of an opportunity thing. Even in the GrimDark WH40K universe the chances of a SuperNun getting exposed to Chaos is small. Even a BattleNun spends most of the time shooting it with bolters or cooking it with fire.

When your daily devotions are to the Emperor, you're probably fairly well protected.

The GK are specifically trained to fight daemons. This'll include psychic resistance and conditioning. Throw in the elevated religious devotions they go through there are plenty of ways even non psychers can be mentally reinforced to withstand the effects of Chaos.

The Gaunt's book Armour of Contempt shows even mortals can resist the taint if they are strong enough.

Hand selected troops from hand selected armies with hand selection processes will mean that the GK are pretty damn resistant to Chaos.

The Order of the Piercing Thorn was purged, at the request of their own Canoness....for reasons.

The Adepta Sororitas being immune to corruption is pure propaganda, the fact that there aren't many instances has more to do with the dearth of stories about them relative to Astartes.

As for the overall thread question, if there are any factions that are truely immune to corruption, then there are too many.

 Super Ready wrote:
Say what? Really?! ...don't suppose they had models, by any chance?

The original GK list used the old mk6 marine models with bolters, flamers, shuriken catapults, etc.
Slaves to darkness 1988. GK terminators (and nemesis force weapons) came out mid 1989 after marine terminators earlier in the same year.

As far as I'm concerned, the only "immune" faction are the Grey Knights. Custodes probably are/could be.

I think Space Marines aren't as corruptible as everyone makes out. Like, I was under the impression that things like the Abyssal Crusade and Badab War are cataclysmic events, definitely not the norm. I think we, as out of character viewers, think Marines fall way more often than they realistically do, simply because the cases where things like that do happen are interesting.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the only "immune" faction are the Grey Knights.

GK aren't immune, just well protected.

Examples include needing additional anointments to protect themselves against the bloodtide, and only purifiers being permitted to guard the black blade due to the strength required to resist corruption - Crowe being noted as the only GK to be able to carry it for any period of time.

Don't forget for as many warriors as the Imperium has in these elite forces; they've vast multitudes more of regular Guardsmen and insane multitudes more of regular humans who aren't part of the armed forces.


It makes sense that the best at resisting Chaos would end up in armed forces sent specifically do deal with chaos (or which would have a high chance of ending up dealing with Chaos). Heck even in the Inquisition books (Ravenor and Eisenhorn) corruption to Chaos can happen to the Inquisition.


So even if the Imperium has an elite army of warriors who are immune, there's still vast numbers who can fall to Chaos.

 Super Ready wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Grey Knights were never immune before the Matt War Abomination Lore - in fact originally only a very few in the Chapter were psychic to protect them from possible possession.

I've got to call this out as incorrect - the Grey Knights have been all-psyker and completely incorruptible for as long as I've been playing, which would be 2nd ed. Specifically, they're covered in the 'Codex Imperialis' that came with the 2nd ed box and the Dark Millennium expansion.
Even that far back, their fluff uses words along the lines of "not a single member has ever turned traitor".

The biggest changes Matt Ward brought about was their use of power armour, and the sudden proliferation and variety of units. Prior to that, they were only available in squads of Terminators that you'd take as a special ally - kind of like you would Legion of the Damned.
I stand corrected, power armour came earlier than Ward.

I have Slaves to Darkness open next to me right now, though reading back up I see you found this quote anyway.

They are specially screened to exclude all but the strongest and most resilient psykers, a measure designed to prevetn any Daemonic contamination. As a result, very few of the Grey Knights have any psychic power whatsoever.

Page 247.

The Ordo Malleus army list at the back of the book has Tac Squads, Assault Squads and Dev Squads, showing marines in regular power armour. As such, they never had their own dedicated models during Rogue Trader. Even Grey Knight Terminators are not in Slaves to Darkness.

Appreciate the knowledge bomb, thanks.

What's in Slaves to Darkness is so drastically different as to everything that's followed since, that it's fair to say that the "real" Grey Knights hadn't appeared yet.
Bear in mind 1st ed also has things like Marines wielding Eldar shuriken weapons, Leman Russ still kicking around and leading 40k Space Wolves, and of course Inquisitor Sherlock Obi-Wan Clouseau...

I don't really consider anything in Rogue Trader's lore to be "official" canon any more, unless it's been backed up since, or it doesn't conflict with current lore (like the very existence of actual Rogue Traders, for example).