Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Play tested a new list to see the flow and while I like it it seems to be less my style. Maybe I need to get out of my "shooty" theme more.

Question: If I am running a Technomancer with a Control Node to help my 12 Wraiths and a CCB with Relic Orb to bring a number of them back, (also have x2 Reanimators to get 3+ with Orb....if that is correct), do you find it as har as I do to keep the Technomancer and CCB in range of everything that wants it?

Other Question.....Novok or 6" pregame move and Obsec......opinions when it applies to a heavy Wraith, Spyder and Scarab list?

RP cannot be modified more than +1. Give the technomancer thrall of the silent king to increase his control node range to 9". I prefer pregame move and obsec. Novokh does nothing when you dont reach melee.

Thank you for the info. Reanimators are nice, but after looking at what I had, the Nightbringer just looked too good, so he is back in.

CCB just seems like a massive waste of points when it doesn't give much to a Canoptek list. Bumped it down to a Lord with relic Orb. Already had Node on Technomancer.

If I ever play the CCB I think I will always want Tomb Blades with him. My CCB always sucks wind in Melee so no wasting Voltaic on him.

I am liking more Scarabs and more Wraiths now. :-)

Decided to just pull out the necrons
My question is

What is the best order for protocols?

And what are the list factors that determine a shift?

Meaning is it dependent on what dynasty is being run or should vengeful stars and hungry void always be used between turns 2-4?

Typically I do Eternal Guardian turn one, choosing Cover if I’m going second and Steady/Defend if I’m going first. Turn two is Conquering Tyrant to let me Fall Back and shoot, generally wasted if I ended up going first. Turn three is Sudden Storm if I’ve got Actions in that game. Otherwise Undying Legions and Vengeful Stars wrap me up with just some nice bonuses.

russellmoo wrote:
Decided to just pull out the necrons
My question is

What is the best order for protocols?

And what are the list factors that determine a shift?

Meaning is it dependent on what dynasty is being run or should vengeful stars and hungry void always be used between turns 2-4?

T1 Guardian - survivability is crucial in the early game and you can deploy your forces out in the open instead of compromising position to get cover or stack the bonus on top of the -1 to hit from a forest. If enemy shooting or T1 charges are not a concern, Storm is good for board control and Stars is good against heavily-armoured enemies.
T2 Legions - same role as Guardian, it comes after Guardian because if you go first then you won't have any damaged vehicles. Using Storm T2 is good if you have shooty deep strike units that need to perform an action. Against heavily armoured shooting factions Stars is good T2 since shooting armies are better able to ensure that none of our units survive in a damaged state.
T3 Tyrant - You'll probably have shooting unit in melee T3, T2 would be more impactful in some circumstances, but leaving it for T3 makes it give more reliable value. If you don't have shooting units then I would move Tyrant to T5.
T4 Void - Even our slowest or rearguard units will have made it into combat by now. If you are running a list with only vehicles or something silly then you should go for Stars instead.
T5 Storm - Get to the objectives and do the actions, killing enemy units and surviving here is not as important.

I leave Tyrant for T6 when I use the Silent King, that enables me to use it when it can have the largest impact, whether that is T2 or T4.

Void T2 when using Novokh for deep striky killy goodness.

Reroll a Reanimation dice has been great turn one or turn two as keeping things like my Wraith alive is vital, but to be honest............all of these really depend so much on what your army has and what your opponent has.

Some like getting to do actions depend on if that is in your plans and I always thought getting it off early when you can dictate it easier is better than waiting latter when you won't know what is alive and where on the board it will be.

The more I play the less I like Protocols due to the need to be within range of a character.................my damn Wraiths movement ALWAYS puts them out of reach of everything....including a CCB with orb!

:-(

Plasmancers are simply amazing. I took out the five Lychguard in my Crusade force for a pair of them and they just get So Much Work done. Just a steady stream of Mortal Wounds the opponent can’t Deny. Get closer to them and they do Even More.

 AduroT wrote:
Plasmancers are simply amazing. I took out the five Lychguard in my Crusade force for a pair of them and they just get So Much Work done. Just a steady stream of Mortal Wounds the opponent can’t Deny. Get closer to them and they do Even More.

I used them and they are good, cheap and worthy of the Veil of Darkness, but in my Wraith/Scarab list they are far too slow......My double C'Tan can barely keep up. If I had a different/slower list I think they would be awesome behind Warrior mobs and scarabs that were pacing themselves.... :-)

So I tried something I have been having issue with in a play test, but was wondering if people could poke holes in it.............

I run a heavy Wraith and Scarab list with Nightbringer and Skorpekh Destroyers........my Technomancer with Control Node and one regen of canoptek model has a massive issue with speed. He is never in position due to his 5" move. I run him and do all that I can to keep him in range, but as you all know, Wraiths go through stuff while the walking Technomancer has to walk/run around it.

I've tried CCB with Orb, but even its often not fast enough, has a big foot print and is always just outside of the needed 6" in the command phase for Orb.

My solution = put Veil of Darkness on Technomancer and have a 10 man Warriors squad escort him in the jump to 9" away from enemy. Wraiths are already near that and on charge will be within the need 9" +1 Attack range and 6" Reanimate range.

 Da-Rock wrote:
So I tried something I have been having issue with in a play test, but was wondering if people could poke holes in it.............

I run a heavy Wraith and Scarab list with Nightbringer and Skorpekh Destroyers........my Technomancer with Control Node and one regen of canoptek model has a massive issue with speed. He is never in position due to his 5" move. I run him and do all that I can to keep him in range, but as you all know, Wraiths go through stuff while the walking Technomancer has to walk/run around it.

I've tried CCB with Orb, but even its often not fast enough, has a big foot print and is always just outside of the needed 6" in the command phase for Orb.

My solution = put Veil of Darkness on Technomancer and have a 10 man Warriors squad escort him in the jump to 9" away from enemy. Wraiths are already near that and on charge will be within the need 9" +1 Attack range and 6" Reanimate range.

You could just give him the deep strike wargear or outflank him if you don't need him T1. You could also take a Ghost Ark or Night Scythe. Technomancers are Infantry so they can walk through ruins. Veil of Darkness being great isn't news, perhaps you should consider taking 5 Immortals instead of 10 Warriors to save points.

Play Nephrekh and you can Deepstrike him for 1 CP, and then when he runs he always gets the extra 6” and can move thru terrain! And if he doesn’t run you can give him the staff that denies your opponent Overwatch!

Thrall of the silent king increases range of the canoptek cloak by 3".

Good suggestions:

1st Turn I am one turn away from charging and I've taken damage to my Wraiths/Destroyers.....

Rites of Reanimation is Command Phase so I need a 1st turn Veil jump to be there on Turn 2 Command phase and within 6". (I love a 20 point, "Bring back a Wraith or Destroyer" ability). I reanimate and then send them in. I have the Thrall of the Silent King as that is mandatory.

Each mission and terrain dictates a lot, but often there is a midfield Objective and I like veiling in 10 to 15 warriors. The Technomancer is more reliable than an Orb, (in all my games) as it can revive D3 warriors, but not Immortals, (sucks!). 5 vs 10 to 15 leans to Warriors.

Finished game six of the Crusade League, the last of the 500pt games. Sidelining the Lychguard for the pair of Plasmancers was definitely the smartest decision. Those two just carry my games, and after being tabled the first two games I went on to three wins and a draw I Should have won but for absentminded model placement on my part after their inclusion. And they’re only getting Better, with one having gotten the once per game roll three extra dice for Mortal Wounds, and both nearing level three where they’ll pick up some Arkana to deal even more Mortals.

Meanwhile I realized after game four I had been cheating in games 2-4 when I gave my Phaeron a Crusade Relic he can’t have until Heroic tier because I missed a single line header at the top of the page. It was only actually Used in one of the games, being a relic that grants my Phaeron a Deny The Witch attempt and only one of the three games having an opposing psyker, but it was also that draw, so maybe that one Shouldn’t have been a victory. I’ve been piling the bonus three exp on my Phaeron most games, plus he demonstrated Nephrekh’s dominance over the vile Novokh Dynasty in game six (in large part to a lucky roll to go first) to earn that bonus five exp, so he’s actually already just a mere one game away from being able to repurchase the Relic, plus a second Relic of the same rarity at the same time. I think he’s going to earn the name Taneleer for his habits, and take the bonus exp for killing characters with Relics trait from the list he gets to choose from for that third victory.

Nice, sounds good!

So the Plasmancers have been good? I keep pondering using them. Do you have any game details on how they worked?

With the ability to use Harb of Destruction twice a turn makes them a good choice.
Able to get reroll ones as well makes them damage dealing far more consistent.

They only get to double Harbinger once per game though, so that’s Nice, but not Great. In general it’s just the pair of them sitting there rolling six dice between them and doing a Mortal Wound for every 4+. No Deny the Witch. If you get up and engage their Warrior “meat” shield in melee, something they typically don’t like, that’s Another two 4+ Mortal Wounds, except now it’s again each target in range, not just the closest, and that goes off in Both players’ turns. There’s been a couple times where something engaged the Warriors, and I didn’t have to fall back to be able to shoot because the Plasmancers just cleaned up. For Arkana I’m planning on the Quantum Orb ital strike, and the one that does yet more Mortal Wounds for ending a Charge Move near them. The opponents are suddenly discovering a love for the Artisan Bionics Crusade Relic for its 5+ save vs Mortal Wounds for their Warlords.

Quick question, would a unit killed by the Triarchal Menhirs count for the Code of Combat secondary since they don't have the Noble keyword but are part of a unit that does? My interpretation is no but I want to be sure.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Quick question, would a unit killed by the Triarchal Menhirs count for the Code of Combat secondary since they don't have the Noble keyword but are part of a unit that does? My interpretation is no but I want to be sure.

KEYWORDS (SZAREKH): VEHICLE, CHARACTER, FLY, SUPREME COMMANDER, PHAERON, NOBLE, DYNASTIC AGENT, THE SILENT KING
KEYWORDS (TRIARCHAL MENHIRS): VEHICLE, FLY, DYNASTIC AGENT, THE SILENT KING, TRIARCHAL MENHIRS

Score 3 victory points at the end of the battle for each enemy unit that was destroyed by a NECRONS NOBLE unit from your army.

I'd say it counts if my opponent was using it, it was destroyed by a unit with the NOBLE and NECRONS keywords. I'd ask the TO/my opponent before choosing it myself though.

More appropriate for UMDC forum, this is way too biased a place to show your opponent "well the internet says this" which is sort of weak in the first place. "Necron players agree, it should be interpreted in the way that benefits Necrons" is maybe exaggerating but that's how I'd feel if a Grey Knights player tried to convince me about a rules interpretation from a GK tactics thread.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Quick question, would a unit killed by the Triarchal Menhirs count for the Code of Combat secondary since they don't have the Noble keyword but are part of a unit that does? My interpretation is no but I want to be sure.

Yes. Allow me to quote the Core Rules:

"While a unit has models with different keywords, it is considered to have all the keywords of all of its models"

Since Szarekh has the Noble keyword, the entire unit is considered to have the Noble keyword. Code of Combat does not require a Noble "model" to destroy an enemy unit - it requires a Noble "unit". Therefore, units destroyed by either the Menhirs or Szarekh will qualify for Code of Combat.

 MinMax wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Quick question, would a unit killed by the Triarchal Menhirs count for the Code of Combat secondary since they don't have the Noble keyword but are part of a unit that does? My interpretation is no but I want to be sure.

Yes. Allow me to quote the Core Rules:

"While a unit has models with different keywords, it is considered to have all the keywords of all of its models"

Since Szarekh has the Noble keyword, the entire unit is considered to have the Noble keyword. Code of Combat does not require a Noble "model" to destroy an enemy unit - it requires a Noble "unit". Therefore, units destroyed by either the Menhirs or Szarekh will qualify for Code of Combat.

That's brilliant thanks. I don't have the BRB on hand but do you have the page number for this so I can make a note of it?

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

 MinMax wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Quick question, would a unit killed by the Triarchal Menhirs count for the Code of Combat secondary since they don't have the Noble keyword but are part of a unit that does? My interpretation is no but I want to be sure.

Yes. Allow me to quote the Core Rules:

"While a unit has models with different keywords, it is considered to have all the keywords of all of its models"

Since Szarekh has the Noble keyword, the entire unit is considered to have the Noble keyword. Code of Combat does not require a Noble "model" to destroy an enemy unit - it requires a Noble "unit". Therefore, units destroyed by either the Menhirs or Szarekh will qualify for Code of Combat.

That's brilliant thanks. I don't have the BRB on hand but do you have the page number for this so I can make a note of it?

Page 2 in the core rules or 197 in the big book.

I would like to report that im very happy with conqueror/expansionists 3x9 scarabs and two spyders hiding behind obscuring terrain. The spyders reanimates one destroyed model every turn, while the scarabs score take and hold, and ancient machineries. The scarabs make more points than they give away.

I just got into 40k this year and I've been working up to 1000 points in necrons. So far I've got:

Overlord /w Glaive
10 Necron warriors /w gauss reaper
3 Skorpekh Destroyers
3 Scarab Swarm
3 Tomb Blades
Canoptek Doomstalker

For 600 pts total so far. For the last 400 points I've been considering adding 10 more warriors (or maybe 8 to make room for some gear options for the tomb blades) and a Ctan Transcendent.

I've been aiming for either a heavy shooting army with some melee for counter and screening or a mixed force approach.

Thoughts or any other suggestions?

 Praetorius wrote:
I just got into 40k this year and I've been working up to 1000 points in necrons. So far I've got:

Overlord /w Glaive
10 Necron warriors /w gauss reaper
3 Skorpekh Destroyers
3 Scarab Swarm
3 Tomb Blades
Canoptek Doomstalker

For 600 pts total so far. For the last 400 points I've been considering adding 10 more warriors (or maybe 8 to make room for some gear options for the tomb blades) and a Ctan Transcendent.

I've been aiming for either a heavy shooting army with some melee for counter and screening or a mixed force approach.

Thoughts or any other suggestions?

Transcendent C'tan are probably a bit better once you get up to higher point values, as far as I understand one of the main things that make them good right now is Sky of Falling Stars, which needs lots of targets to be good, you're not going to find that at smaller point levels. Transcendent C'tan also cost an arm and a leg unless you're going to proxy or get one second-hand because they're only found as a bonus in the Obelisk kit.

Don't get invulnerable saves on Tomb Blades and don't get ignore cover on gauss Tomb Blades.

You could get 10 Warriors, 3 Scarabs, 1 Chronomancer and 1 Ghost Ark (magnetize it so it can be a Doomsday Ark as well).

Wraiths and Scarabs backed by Warriors and Doomstalkers......so much evil fun.

 vict0988 wrote:

Transcendent C'tan are probably a bit better once you get up to higher point values, as far as I understand one of the main things that make them good right now is Sky of Falling Stars, which needs lots of targets to be good, you're not going to find that at smaller point levels. Transcendent C'tan also cost an arm and a leg unless you're going to proxy or get one second-hand because they're only found as a bonus in the Obelisk kit.

Don't get invulnerable saves on Tomb Blades and don't get ignore cover on gauss Tomb Blades.

You could get 10 Warriors, 3 Scarabs, 1 Chronomancer and 1 Ghost Ark (magnetize it so it can be a Doomsday Ark as well).

Went to the hobby shop today to pick up a new model and lo and behold their only models in stock (necron-wise) were SK, tomb blades, doomstalkers, overlords, and spyders. It'll be at least a week til they get some more variety in stock. Which bums me out since they are the only hobby shop in my area besides GW and I do not feel like shelling out full retail prices. Fortunately, I spied a Lady Olynder kit on the shelf and picked her up as she'd make a nice proxy for a Ctan Transcendent. (Along with a pot of Fenrisian Grey)

So it looks like I had to do a detour on my list development.

Also, don’t buy a box of Warriors, buy the small starter box if you can instead. It costs $5 more than a box of Warriors but comes with an additional Necron Royal Warden, plus Space Marine Primaris Assault Intercessors and Bladeguard Lieutenant, and the box makes decent terrain.

 Praetorius wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

Transcendent C'tan are probably a bit better once you get up to higher point values, as far as I understand one of the main things that make them good right now is Sky of Falling Stars, which needs lots of targets to be good, you're not going to find that at smaller point levels. Transcendent C'tan also cost an arm and a leg unless you're going to proxy or get one second-hand because they're only found as a bonus in the Obelisk kit.

Don't get invulnerable saves on Tomb Blades and don't get ignore cover on gauss Tomb Blades.

You could get 10 Warriors, 3 Scarabs, 1 Chronomancer and 1 Ghost Ark (magnetize it so it can be a Doomsday Ark as well).

Went to the hobby shop today to pick up a new model and lo and behold their only models in stock (necron-wise) were SK, tomb blades, doomstalkers, overlords, and spyders. It'll be at least a week til they get some more variety in stock. Which bums me out since they are the only hobby shop in my area besides GW and I do not feel like shelling out full retail prices. Fortunately, I spied a Lady Olynder kit on the shelf and picked her up as she'd make a nice proxy for a Ctan Transcendent. (Along with a pot of Fenrisian Grey)

So it looks like I had to do a detour on my list development.

This is interesting as I had the same thought to use her as a Nightbringer ctan proxy