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Kayback wrote:
Predator 1987 was bad. It was an 80's action movie that did some scenes well but overall was an 80's action movie.

Gonna have to disagree with you there! Original Predator starts out as a cheesy 80's action movie but rather unexpectedly (at the time) transforms into a thriller, almost horror. That's what makes it a great film, but arguably its success and the prevalence of the Predator in pop culture works against it these days. Everyone knows the tonal switch is coming.

 Super Ready wrote:

Kayback wrote:
Predator 1987 was bad. It was an 80's action movie that did some scenes well but overall was an 80's action movie.

Gonna have to disagree with you there! Original Predator starts out as a cheesy 80's action movie but rather unexpectedly (at the time) transforms into a thriller, almost horror. That's what makes it a great film, but arguably its success and the prevalence of the Predator in pop culture works against it these days. Everyone knows the tonal switch is coming.

It's like the chest-burster scene. In the original film it was terror inducing and violent - today its so well known that its not as horrific compared to back then.
We get the same thing with a lot of landmark films - take Jurassic Park where one of the biggest landmark features for it was the first time seeing dinosaurs that weren't either stop-motion; enlarged iguanas or a guy in a suit who looks like a guy in a suit. Heck the film even toys with us by showing the caged Raptor right at the start which is what we'd normally see- hardly anything in really dark black and close scenes to get around the fact that they don't have a raptor. Then BOOM we get that strong musical score and open fields and huge dinosaurs

The only way i could enjoy the original predator was with Rifftrax.
I watched Predator 2 and found it much better, yet im told its worse.
I honestly think that sometimes, people watch things when they are kids a few time, with only half memories of it. and then are told by others later on on how bad or how good something is and then form their opinion that way. Not saying its always true however, but it feels that way sometimes.
I think its prudent for people to go back and visit things they watched as kids and reevaluate them.

True but sometimes you have to also learn to appreciate things within context. Plus there's no problem with having earlier impressions colour your impression of something.


Heck consider something like the Redwall books - books that I can't enjoy reading as an adult. However I can see that were I a lot younger when I first read them I likely would have really enjoyed them and would then enjoy them through nostalgia as an adult.


That said I do agree sometimes its good to go back and experience things again. Though as I recall Predator and Predator 2 were 18 rated films sooooo most of us "shouldn't" have been kids when we watched them.


though the fact they made a kids version of Robocop I think suggests that everyone knows kids don't follow age guidelines

Oh yeah, i should have said "adult" media would be appropriate, things made for kids dont necessarily warrant a revisit.
What im more talking about is when people form an opinion on "Something is bad" based on what people say, despite only seeing the movie awhile ago.Thats why I think things warrant a revisit when you are older, to form your own opinion. and my Opinion is, Predator 2 is the best of the franchise

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The only way i could enjoy the original predator was with Rifftrax.
I watched Predator 2 and found it much better, yet im told its worse.
I honestly think that sometimes, people watch things when they are kids a few time, with only half memories of it. and then are told by others later on on how bad or how good something is and then form their opinion that way. Not saying its always true however, but it feels that way sometimes.
I think its prudent for people to go back and visit things they watched as kids and reevaluate them.

I like them both - very different films

PLus Aliens cast in Pred 2!

Also as a lad loved the Whole cod Voodoo gang stuff mixed in with the Predator lore

I think its prudent for people to go back and visit things they watched as kids and reevaluate them

What makes you think some or any of us watched these when we were kids?

 Azreal13 wrote:

I think its prudent for people to go back and visit things they watched as kids and reevaluate them

What makes you think some or any of us watched these when we were kids?

I did?
My friends where born after they where made, and watched them growing up.
They had Kid cartoons

Which was my point.

Just because you did, doesn't mean that anybody else currently participating in the thread did.

Equally most people will have rewatched films they like, perhaps even many, many times as they've grown up if they did watch them when they were young, giving ample opportunity to re-evaluate their opinion.

Unless you're suggesting people go back and rewatch films they don't like, which seems pretty futile.

Kayback wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

If the green laser thing was getting you then you should have been upset about the aliens going from face hugger to full grown aliens in less than 20 minutes. Or the preds knight being immune to alien acid but not it's armor, or net. Or how a pred took off his mask, got knocked out, woke up, and didn't realize he had been face huggered and then blew up the whole place with his wrist bomb immediately. Or how the drones attacked the queen to free it instead of attacking themselves. Or how the drones were more intelligent in the movie then any other movie for no good reason. Or how that one aliens tail was like... 20 feet long.

We've seen Xenomorphs grow from chest burster to full size on the remains of a dog (albeit with maybe implied other prisoners) so who knows. Same with the other stuff. Alien technology/biology is alien to us. We know how green lasers don't perform in low temperatures.

AVP is a terrible movie.

This is where semantics come in. I was EXPECTING a terrible movie. They all have been. Predator 1987 was bad. It was an 80's action movie that did some scenes well but overall was an 80's action movie. Predator 2 was a 90's cop film, but with aliens. It was also bad. Alien and Aliens were good. Aliens 3 was not, neither was Resurection. I didn't have a very high bar for AvP. I wasn't disappointed. I was annoyed by the green laser thing as it's physics.

Well, that was a production issue. The "dog alien" was supposed to have come out of a bull. It grew to the size it was at on "birth" because it had more body to grow in. Further, bare minimum hours if not a day goes by before anyone sees it again.

In AVP the temple changes every 15 or 20 minutes. AFTER one of those changes the eggs come up out of the platforms. Then the face huggers attach, fall off die, and chest bursters come out. And by the time the temple shifts again they are all already full grow.

It takes longer then that for the face huggers to do their thing.
It takes longer then that for the chest burster to do it's thing.
And it takes longer then that for the aliens to grow.

So doing all 3 at once is just insanity.

Thats not semantics. It's opinion.

Honestly when they re-did Alien 3 I hated that they changed it from dog to bull. Sure you can argue about growth speed, but honestly the bull hatching scene was tame and the Xeno didn't really have any bull like properties or shape besides being on all fours.

Instead the dog hatching scene is FAR more horror inducing; far more shocking. Furthermore the alien looks like a dog; its lithe, smaller and generally sized more akin to the dog.

Overall dog wins and its about the only change in the directors cut editions that I wish they had not made.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly when they re-did Alien 3 I hated that they changed it from dog to bull. Sure you can argue about growth speed, but honestly the bull hatching scene was tame and the Xeno didn't really have any bull like properties or shape besides being on all fours.

Instead the dog hatching scene is FAR more horror inducing; far more shocking. Furthermore the alien looks like a dog; its lithe, smaller and generally sized more akin to the dog.

Overall dog wins and its about the only change in the directors cut editions that I wish they had not made.

Thats fine. I was just talking about the production change as it relates to the aliens growth pre birth.

Arguably a chest burster that emerges from a dog with roughly 1/4 the body mass of a person should be smaller then the chest burster we saw in the original alien. Coming out with all 4 limbs and tail already developed and able to run around on all 4s only makes sense if it spent more time gestating inside of the larger mass of the bull.

Since it was originally intended to be the bull they never built the props for the chest burster. When the reshoots and production changes happened to change it to a dog they just mashed the props they had together with close up shots of gore and some pick up shots of a dog pacing and said it came out of a dog.

I do seem to recall that Alien 3, for all its powerful two preceding films, got messed around a lot during production and post-production editing.

Yeah. So much so that the director struck his name from anything that had to do with it. He has no credits or anything.

While Alien and Aliens have directors cuts Alien 3 has the Assembly Cut, because they brought in someone else to use the directors original notes and the production script to reassemble what had been shot into the closest approximation of what he would have made. The director reportedly would not even take a call to talk about going back to work on the movie again.

 Lance845 wrote:
Yeah. So much so that the director struck his name from anything that had to do with it. He has no credits or anything.

Errr, David Fincher's name is in the credits for Alien 3.

He has publicly "disowned" the film, but hasn't actually followed through on it, despite there being precedent for just that. (Although that may only apply before release, I dunno.)

For a hat trick I'll submit all 3 of the godzilla anime that were on netflix recently.

To say these things sucked would be to disparage the term suck, as the term suck can have positive confrontations, like "Man my new vacuum cleaner really sucks the dirt out of my carpet in one pass!" or... "My new..."Never mind.

These were ghawdawful, depressing, hopeless and no fun at all.

They also harked to the old "technology bad!" luddite meme that implies humans are better off living a very low tech, stone age existence.

A man without technology is a dead, naked ape, not a happy noble savage.

On a side note, the message at the end of the execrable godzilla anime series reminded me of the same idiocy that managed to poison the last episode of battlestar galactica, which pulled the same idiot meme that would condemn 98% of the survivors to slow starvation, death by easily treatable medical conditions and illnesses, exposure, etc. With such an inane ending the SFC managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory yet again.

I wiped those from my mind...........
God where they sooooo bad. Mechagodzilla was a city, ghidorah just tentacles with heads......

 Mr Morden wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

I strongly suspect that in order to have not seen that coming, you would need to have left the room 15 minutes prior to the film starting...

Really? I really enjoyed that film and it was a surprise to me. It was fun film with silliness and even the death at the end was a bit different to the normal filme fare..

Honestly, the only way that death could have been more blatantly telegraphed was if he was wearing a bikini, took off his top, and said 'Gosh, I hope there's no sharks in this here pool...'

 Matt Swain wrote:
For a hat trick I'll submit all 3 of the godzilla anime that were on netflix recently.

To say these things sucked would be to disparage the term suck, as the term suck can have positive confrontations, like "Man my new vacuum cleaner really sucks the dirt out of my carpet in one pass!" or... "My new..."Never mind.

These were ghawdawful, depressing, hopeless and no fun at all.

They also harked to the old "technology bad!" luddite meme that implies humans are better off living a very low tech, stone age existence.

A man without technology is a dead, naked ape, not a happy noble savage.

On a side note, the message at the end of the execrable godzilla anime series reminded me of the same idiocy that managed to poison the last episode of battlestar galactica, which pulled the same idiot meme that would condemn 98% of the survivors to slow starvation, death by easily treatable medical conditions and illnesses, exposure, etc. With some an inane ending the SFC managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory yet again.

It's amazing how much worse they got as they went.

Yeah, honestly you'd be better off watching shin godzilla than any of these crapanime vids.

Speaking of shin godzilla the interesting thing was the explanation of godzilla's energy source. Sure, it was BS, but if it could be duplicated we'd have a new power source that ran off the most common elements on earth and while radioactive, the radiation had a half life of 20 days which means sore it for 400 days and it would be basically non radioactive at the end.

That would make Godzilla a solution to pollution and very much eco friendly.

Oops, wrong thread.

 Matt Swain wrote:
These were ghawdawful, depressing, hopeless and no fun at all.

So what you're saying is the cartoon films were about as good as the last two live action Godzilla films.

 Overread wrote:


though the fact they made a kids version of Robocop I think suggests that everyone knows kids don't follow age guidelines

Which was the "kids" version of robocop?

The marvel cartoon? (yes, it had a SMC slot alongside the hulk and spiderman).

 chromedog wrote:

 Overread wrote:


though the fact they made a kids version of Robocop I think suggests that everyone knows kids don't follow age guidelines

Which was the "kids" version of robocop?

The marvel cartoon? (yes, it had a SMC slot alongside the hulk and spiderman).

The cartoon and Robocop 3.

Oh, and Robocop in WCW.

 insaniak wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

I strongly suspect that in order to have not seen that coming, you would need to have left the room 15 minutes prior to the film starting...

Really? I really enjoyed that film and it was a surprise to me. It was fun film with silliness and even the death at the end was a bit different to the normal filme fare..

Honestly, the only way that death could have been more blatantly telegraphed was if he was wearing a bikini, took off his top, and said 'Gosh, I hope there's no sharks in this here pool...'

Not to me - and not to plenty of others - to you apparently and a couple of my friends but majority nope.

 chromedog wrote:

 Overread wrote:


though the fact they made a kids version of Robocop I think suggests that everyone knows kids don't follow age guidelines

Which was the "kids" version of robocop?

The marvel cartoon? (yes, it had a SMC slot alongside the hulk and spiderman).

They made a live action series, one season, for Robocop. It was based after the first film if I recall right and its, cheesy. For kids/young teens its fine, but its very clearly aimed at them as there's no blood/extreme violence. Its the kind of situation where Robocop will fire his gun and instead of killing, it will hit a plank that then knocks someone out etc...

 Overread wrote:

 chromedog wrote:

 Overread wrote:


though the fact they made a kids version of Robocop I think suggests that everyone knows kids don't follow age guidelines

Which was the "kids" version of robocop?

The marvel cartoon? (yes, it had a SMC slot alongside the hulk and spiderman).

They made a live action series, one season, for Robocop. It was based after the first film if I recall right and its, cheesy. For kids/young teens its fine, but its very clearly aimed at them as there's no blood/extreme violence. Its the kind of situation where Robocop will fire his gun and instead of killing, it will hit a plank that then knocks someone out etc...

I think I remember absolutely loving that as a kid for some reason, I'm shocked to realise it was only one season. Looking back it was everything people make fun of kid friendly adaptations for being - non lethal fights, badguy *somehow* gets away to be back next episode, discount store renaming of movie-only characters, kid sidekick...

Casualty wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 chromedog wrote:

 Overread wrote:


though the fact they made a kids version of Robocop I think suggests that everyone knows kids don't follow age guidelines

Which was the "kids" version of robocop?

The marvel cartoon? (yes, it had a SMC slot alongside the hulk and spiderman).

They made a live action series, one season, for Robocop. It was based after the first film if I recall right and its, cheesy. For kids/young teens its fine, but its very clearly aimed at them as there's no blood/extreme violence. Its the kind of situation where Robocop will fire his gun and instead of killing, it will hit a plank that then knocks someone out etc...

I think I remember absolutely loving that as a kid for some reason, I'm shocked to realise it was only one season. Looking back it was everything people make fun of kid friendly adaptations for being - non lethal fights, badguy *somehow* gets away to be back next episode, discount store renaming of movie-only characters, kid sidekick...

Aye I really enjoyed it too as a kid. Rewatching it now (its on Amazon Prime UK) I can see the "kids adaptation" elements in it; plus add to it the aging process of being a TV show made in an era before the big budgets and higher end CGI of modern shows and you can see it pales compared to the film. But it is fun and for its target audience its well made and suited.

Hmm a tie between Starship Troopers 3 and Jaws 2.
I loved the original starship troopers, played a lot of starcraft 1 as a kid really fitted. The ingenius use of thousands of poorly kitted infantry with little other support in an effort to outswarm the bugs, the fact that I now learn that this is a direct subversion of the book only makes me love it more. You build a society that requires endless war and ensures large parts of the population are recruited into the military? Well they're not all going to get marvelous power armour are they? And it's not necessarily always great if they make it back alive in the type of numbers they were sent out in. The Cassus Bellum is also dodgy as hell in the movie, which makes complete sense given that their society must always want for war. Come Movie no 3 90% of the movie is a small party hoofing it through the desert pinneing the whole way about how the state does not sanction worship of their Jesus. I'm sorry, I watch this to see masses of poorly kitted soldiers fight an uphill battle against brutal warrior bugs for a worthless rock.

Shark literally kills like maybe 2 people and a orca(done offscreen too). Not counting the first 'victim' who literally self immolates as soon as Jaws has a go at the outboard motor. You can't attribute this kill to Jaws. People also bounce off Jaws's mouth which does not really happen, because sharks project their mouth forwards when they bite. Becasue if prey bounced off shark's mouths when they went to bite, they'd all starve to death.