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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
None of the units in the FW books where used.
What WAS used was Infantry and bullgryns.
What people are forgetting is alot of the units that are gone, sucked.

Hard to be cool and add to the salt pile if you’re being reasonable, come on now. That kind of rationality gets you in bother round here.

 xttz wrote:
Hierodules start at BS 3+ W18
I think the barbed one has a 2+ save but it's not clear.
Bio-cannon is now flat 2 damage, Heirodule scything talons S+2, D3+3 damage

18 wounds? They made them weaker?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Hierodules start at BS 3+ W18
I think the barbed one has a 2+ save but it's not clear.
Bio-cannon is now flat 2 damage, Heirodule scything talons S+2, D3+3 damage

18 wounds? They made them weaker?

Well yeah is they're now a sub 300 point heavy support that kinda makes sense.

they lost a whopping 5 wounds but cost less and arent superheavy detachment anymore. Big win since they can now gain hive traits.

 Mothman wrote:
Sicaran down 30 points, loses all its special rules, costs a CP and down 2 shots, in return gets +1 ap and +1 damage, not sure if thats worth it. Shame it lost its rend and anti flyer niche now its just a boring tank.

Why does it cost a CP?

 Nicorex wrote:

 Mothman wrote:
Sicaran down 30 points, loses all its special rules, costs a CP and down 2 shots, in return gets +1 ap and +1 damage, not sure if thats worth it. Shame it lost its rend and anti flyer niche now its just a boring tank.

Why does it cost a CP?

all the dreadnoughts and tanks for chaos get "martial legacy" which means +1 cp for each one if battle forged

Back when the Carny was the biggest GW made the Heiroduels were huge in comparison; now they are rubbing shoulders with the likes of the other superheavies. So I'm not too shocked to see the small lord of wars shift down a gear into regular super heavies.

It might actually be a boon that encourages their use more so on the tabletop. Even if they aren't more powerful they are more practical and cheaper in points to reflect that.


Granted it means Tyranids have lost lords of war and are left with only the two huge and expensive titan class models. So that's a bit of a blow, but then again who knows GW might give Tyranids a nice plastic Lord of War style model at some stage.

 Overread wrote:
Back when the Carny was the biggest GW made the Heiroduels were huge in comparison; now they are rubbing shoulders with the likes of the other superheavies. So I'm not too shocked to see the small lord of wars shift down a gear into regular super heavies.

It might actually be a boon that encourages their use more so on the tabletop. Even if they aren't more powerful they are more practical and cheaper in points to reflect that.

Granted it means Tyranids have lost lords of war and are left with only the two huge and expensive titan class models. So that's a bit of a blow, but then again who knows GW might give Tyranids a nice plastic Lord of War style model at some stage.

The Harridan is much improved and they did make the Hierophant usable in regular 40k games (no longer 2000pts lol) so we effectively gained LOWs.

However I'd much rather have Hierodules like this as 18W heavy support units that benefit from hive fleet traits, over the old wound values and have to pay a CP tax to bring them. The point drops have been substantial at 40-45%. What's more, most of the previous complaints with them have been fixed: random damage is now flat damage, BS3+ for the bio-cannons, melee units no longer degrade both WS and Attacks together. Dermic Symbiosis helps to fix their lack of invuln save.

Kronos Barbed Hierodules with Dermic Symbiosis are looking very interesting right now.

The old rules did make me chuckle a bit that the scythed could reach close combat and have worse stats than the ranged versions in close combat - that is if they took damage and stats degraded.

Making them more practical for games is indeed a big boon. Big expensive stuff is nice, but its nicer to have stuff you can use in a 2K game rather than only on the apoc game

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
None of the units in the FW books where used.
What WAS used was Infantry and bullgryns.
What people are forgetting is alot of the units that are gone, sucked.

Yeah, because Leman Russes with built in to hit rerolls and twin linked heavy bolter chimeras were *clearly* inferior. As well as being able to field three artillery pieces with no cover save that compared to the Bassie you saved enough points to buy a whole infantry squad was clearly for chumps.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
None of the units in the FW books where used.
What WAS used was Infantry and bullgryns.
What people are forgetting is alot of the units that are gone, sucked.

Yeah, because Leman Russes with built in to hit rerolls and twin linked heavy bolter chimeras were *clearly* inferior. As well as being able to field three artillery pieces with no cover save that compared to the Bassie you saved enough points to buy a whole infantry squad was clearly for chumps.

?!? the plattforms and field gun versions were initially cheaper as they should've been for the lesser durability, afterwards though (first CA) they were ALL far more expensive then the basi..
also the chimera wasn0t up to task for quite some time now.

 xttz wrote:
However I'd much rather have Hierodules like this as 18W heavy support units that benefit from hive fleet traits, over the old wound values and have to pay a CP tax to bring them.

That is a good point. I didn't consider the CP tax side of things. But if I'm bringing Dermic Symbiosis, what am I going to give my Exocrine?

Glad that they remembered that the acid gun on the Hierodule used to be a hellstorm template.

18" flamer and 3d6 S6 -1 1 instead of that little 8" squirt gun.

Not Online!!! wrote:

?!? the plattforms and field gun versions were initially cheaper as they should've been for the lesser durability, afterwards though (first CA) they were ALL far more expensive then the basi..
also the chimera wasn0t up to task for quite some time now.

I wasn't talking about the platforms, but rather, the humble Griffon, who's only real downside went away with the introduction of a four foot table. And while a standard chimera is, very much, as you say, some of the FW variants were much superior for the points.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

?!? the plattforms and field gun versions were initially cheaper as they should've been for the lesser durability, afterwards though (first CA) they were ALL far more expensive then the basi..
also the chimera wasn0t up to task for quite some time now.

I wasn't talking about the platforms, but rather, the humble Griffon, who's only real downside went away with the introduction of a four foot table. And while a standard chimera is, very much, as you say, some of the FW variants were much superior for the points.

Also true, rather the twin linked or the one with an AC then a normal chimera, but also lets be honest here, even the "superior" ones were still not an issue.
As for the griffon, or any artillery piece really, the rather small tables and the tendency of GW torwards even smaller tables did indeed make it a superior choice in many ways, but it was allways outshined by wyverns and manticors imo.

generally though arty in 40k is a bit of an iffy history.

I just looked at the Astra Militarum section of that video. Some interesting stuff I took away:
It seems Death riders now have a flat 5++ instead of "only against S4 or less". So they might (!) acutally become an alternative to Bullgryns I think. Should they stay at 15 points as of the last points update you could get 3 x T4, W2, 4+, 5++ instead of one T5, W3, 2+ OR 4++. And at least in the turn they charged they seem to be better in CC than the Bullgryns with (per 3 riders), 6 S5, AP-3, D2 attacks followed by 6 S5, AP-1, D1 attacks.
Also for some reason the Death Rider Command Squad went from elite to fast attack and the normal riders from fast attack to elite?

The Trojan is still there and seems to be able to let a vehicle with a one-shot weapon fire again (hello Death Strike missile) => I'm pretty sure this is a misunderstanding or FAQed away, but would be hilarious
Tarantulas are now Fortifications.

I loved my Autocannon Chimeras back in the day. Just sit back at 48" away and cause a ruckus.

 Mothman wrote:

 Nicorex wrote:

 Mothman wrote:
Sicaran down 30 points, loses all its special rules, costs a CP and down 2 shots, in return gets +1 ap and +1 damage, not sure if thats worth it. Shame it lost its rend and anti flyer niche now its just a boring tank.

Why does it cost a CP?

all the dreadnoughts and tanks for chaos get "martial legacy" which means +1 cp for each one if battle forged

ALL OF THEM? So it costs me CP to use non-daemonic vehicles in my daemon hating Night Lords? That's ! Even the LOWs that already cost 3CP just for the detachment?

I’m hearing leviathans are T7 and 3+ skills, which is all I need to hear to know the guys writing this book have made almost negative effort to retain the fluff of units they’re adapting.

changemod wrote:
I’m hearing leviathans are T7 and 3+ skills, which is all I need to hear to know the guys writing this book have made almost negative effort to retain the fluff of units they’re adapting.

Sounds like they tried to actually balance things. Leviathans were absurdly better than any other dreads.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 xttz wrote:
However I'd much rather have Hierodules like this as 18W heavy support units that benefit from hive fleet traits, over the old wound values and have to pay a CP tax to bring them.

That is a good point. I didn't consider the CP tax side of things. But if I'm bringing Dermic Symbiosis, what am I going to give my Exocrine?

TBF I'm looking at the Barbed Hierodule as a 'heavy' Exocrine now. They both have similar basic profiles + ranged weapons, but +60% points gets you +50% wounds, a much stronger melee profile, and the Heirodule doesn't need a stratagem to move & fire at full power. The Hierodule also trades a point of AP for extra strength, which will be handy against tougher targets.

I'm very tempted to run one of each, both with Dermic Symbiosis.

 Crimson wrote:

changemod wrote:
I’m hearing leviathans are T7 and 3+ skills, which is all I need to hear to know the guys writing this book have made almost negative effort to retain the fluff of units they’re adapting.

Sounds like they tried to actually balance things. Leviathans were absurdly better than any other dreads.

I know, because they are absurdly better than other dreads. Raise the price.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Mothman wrote:

 Nicorex wrote:

 Mothman wrote:
Sicaran down 30 points, loses all its special rules, costs a CP and down 2 shots, in return gets +1 ap and +1 damage, not sure if thats worth it. Shame it lost its rend and anti flyer niche now its just a boring tank.

Why does it cost a CP?

all the dreadnoughts and tanks for chaos get "martial legacy" which means +1 cp for each one if battle forged

ALL OF THEM? So it costs me CP to use non-daemonic vehicles in my daemon hating Night Lords? That's ! Even the LOWs that already cost 3CP just for the detachment?

well, that is gak?
like WTF level of gak?

Orks are a mixed bag.

Warboss on Warbike got more attacks, more toughness and access to a killsaw, the wartrike aura, but got more expensive. Net win.
Mekboss Buzzgob can now repair 4 wounds in one turn and has MWBD for ork walkers. Awesome.
Kannonwagon is a renamed Battlewagon with Supa-Kannon that gives it +1 to hit when shooting, a decent side-grade to da boomer.
Meka-dread was split into meka-dread and mega dread again and got a massive point drop.
Nobz on warbikes are fast attack now, but are otherwise unchanged.

Zhardsnark, Lifta-Droppa, Warkopta and the Squiggoth got the axe.

Everything else lost all options that aren't sold by FW, including many favorites like big lobba, supa-skorchas. Gargantuan Squiggoth got a huge points hike, the other LoW remained as bad as they were.

In short, I'm happy that I've never spend any money on FW resin, and I'll start converting a mekboss buzzgob right now

changemod wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

changemod wrote:
I’m hearing leviathans are T7 and 3+ skills, which is all I need to hear to know the guys writing this book have made almost negative effort to retain the fluff of units they’re adapting.

Sounds like they tried to actually balance things. Leviathans were absurdly better than any other dreads.

I know, because they are absurdly better than other dreads.

But they shouldn't. It was exactly the sort of completely unrestrained fanboyish nonsense that gives FW bad name. This dreadnought has more wounds, better armour, better toughness, better WS and BS and crazy good weapons oh and it has invulnerable save too! Please! Two or three of those things would make it 'super dreadnought' what they did was just ludicrous. I'm really glad that the main studio rules team has taken over.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Mothman wrote:

 Nicorex wrote:

 Mothman wrote:
Sicaran down 30 points, loses all its special rules, costs a CP and down 2 shots, in return gets +1 ap and +1 damage, not sure if thats worth it. Shame it lost its rend and anti flyer niche now its just a boring tank.

Why does it cost a CP?

all the dreadnoughts and tanks for chaos get "martial legacy" which means +1 cp for each one if battle forged

ALL OF THEM? So it costs me CP to use non-daemonic vehicles in my daemon hating Night Lords? That's ! Even the LOWs that already cost 3CP just for the detachment?

I would need to go through but only applies to the 30k era tanks and dreads, so sicarans, deredeo, contemptor, leviathan. whirlwind scorpius, xiphon and storm eagle, fire raptor, spartan, typhon, cerebus, falchion, fell blade mastadon, stormbird

It does not effect dreadclaws (odd as those are 30k era tech) nor the land raider variants, termites, rapiers, hell blades, the thunderhawk and kharybdis odly enough dont cost extra cp. Daemon engines also dont have the martial legacy rule.

Honestly I would have been fine if the martial legacy was a 1 time cost for forgeworld, pay it and use as many as you want.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Mothman wrote:

 Nicorex wrote:

 Mothman wrote:
Sicaran down 30 points, loses all its special rules, costs a CP and down 2 shots, in return gets +1 ap and +1 damage, not sure if thats worth it. Shame it lost its rend and anti flyer niche now its just a boring tank.

Why does it cost a CP?

all the dreadnoughts and tanks for chaos get "martial legacy" which means +1 cp for each one if battle forged

ALL OF THEM? So it costs me CP to use non-daemonic vehicles in my daemon hating Night Lords? That's ! Even the LOWs that already cost 3CP just for the detachment?

well, that is gak?
like WTF level of gak?

To be fair, the Corpse-worshippers have the same rule.

Warhound Titan still 2k+ points?

Yep

 CragHack wrote:
Warhound Titan still 2k+ points?

[REDACTED]

And it looks like Aeteos'rau'keres is down to 750.