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I’ve been sticking with a couple close combat mixes that I really like. They aren’t very creative but have been effective against my normal opponents (necrons, thousands sons, Custodes, tons of marines).

10 x Veterans w/ Blackshield, 2 x Heavy Thunder Hammers on the Sarge and Blackshield, 2x Storm Shield and Chainsword.

8 Veterans, Sarge w/ Hyperphase Sword and Storm Shield, Blackshield w/ dual Claws, 2x Stormshield and Chainsword.

These units go in a Corvus or Rhino with Character support. I’ve been using two Librarians so I can pack along Null Zone and Psychic Fortress with the excellent Deathwatch powers. I remember fighting units of 5+/5++ Nobs with power klaws back in the day and the two hidden characters in these units reminds me of those same ‘thorn in the side’ kind of characters. The extra damage is good against the masses of Scarabs, Skorpekhs, Custodes, Dreadnaughts and Terminators that seem so prevalent.

I’ve used the 3x Cyclone, 4x Missile Launcher squad a few times but the D6 damage really skews things sometimes. They are good for hitting a model like Redemptors or Telemons hard enough that I can finish them with a good charge but I’ve been struggling with the general application of force that my shooting in my armies have so far. They also do well against 3W squads but armies that make good use of cover can be a real struggle.

I’ve had consistency from the 3x power weapon bikes and 2 x Stormshield Vanguard, and used the 3x Assault Cannon Termies, + 2 Storm Bolter terminators and 5 Storm Bolter vets with the troop killing tactics against Necrons and it has been the best answer to the teleporting warrior blobs I have found. With Cultists still being used en masse and my Custodes buddy starting to bring sisters with his new shield of the imperium or-whatever-host I think the dakka squads will maybe see more time. I’ve been wondering about putting 4 frag cannons in the squad now that they are a bit cheaper, and that’s a lot of S6 shots to wound those Heavy Bolter/Multi Melta bitches on 2’s...

Eradicators have been ok to deal with so far mostly because I have a lot of fast moving hammers in my army (I take a few in a Van Vet squad as well). We also have good access to flat 3 damage weaponry on characters that can be sprinkled around that the slower moving or close combat oriented 3W models scare me less than they did at the beginning of 9th. The worst things I have to deal with now are the 6 man inceptor squads which I feel like I basically concede to upon sight at this point. When they are willing to bring these kinds of squads I think Deathwatch struggle a lot. If the game sees any shift toward tanks like the Reaper, Predators or multiple whirlwinds I think it’s a tough game. I have an admech army as well and don’t know how I’d fight the horsemen and objective camping lists I’ve been concocting.

I am honestly very pleasantly surprised by the naked Power Sword and Boltgun and want to kick myself often when I don’t stick with it. The S5 and pushing most units off their save or comfortably into their invulnerable save makes them slick. I’ve gotten lucky a few times with Null Zone and don’t think that trick will work much anymore, but with the brotherhood of vets most other space marine units really need to think twice about charging us, and I’ve really liked that they have the ability to dig units out of cover better; it’s really noticeable against the armies 8m up against, especially the raised rubrics who typically take the middle of the table and still get all is dust vs my D1 swords.

Characters

Watch Master - Backline Warlord, mostly enables the Strat to change target
Primaris Bike Chaplain - Smash captain of 9th so far. Really shines with Outrider Fortis and can Beacon well.
Captain with Aegis - Ideally with a Jump Pack but excellent support and counterpunch.
Librarian - 2 excellent powers from our discipline make him a solid choice.

Apothecary - It's pretty easy to chain the Outriders back to him. With the WLT, he pays for himself VERY quickly.
Company Champion - He's not.... great, but a cheap Aegis/Charge Reroll that takes an Elite slot instead of HQ.

The 3 HQ limit hurts, though I think a 4th is hitting support bloat anyway. I have not decided who best to drop, though my first two picks currently are the Captain and Chaplain. The librarian often gets the axe just because the Apothecary is so good and failing his powers really hurts.

Kill Teams

Fortis - Outriders are an obvious go to. . The footprint of 5 of them is hilarious and lets you do all kind of goofy things while being a serious melee threat. You can actually keep the 10 man together better than expected and abuse ablative wounds which can really help them take advantage of our buffs. Hellblaster teams aren't bad, but feel like lesser Eradicators (as do most things)

Spectrus - Eliminators with a Helix Gauntlet that provide a deepstrike bubble are nice. Optimal? Less certain, but they make a cool unit regardless. I think an optimal list will likely end up including one unit of these teams with 5 Incursors instead. I see a lot of success with a pair of concealed position units taking early objectives in 9th for marines in general. Being able to run both units with the 12" denial zone for 15 points left seems like a pretty solid advantage.

The Primaris stuff tends to be pretty straightforward. Mix your base with 5 of something else and go from there. I haven't really worked out the most optimal Proteus team and haven't worked too much on Heavy Intercessors, but I usually use a Fortis/Spectrus and play around with a 3rd or 4th.

Dreadnaughts

Redemptor - really powerful in general and even better with our rerolls and an invul. Powerhouse unit in general in 9th.

Ven Dread - a bit more dedicated to anti-tank, but very efficient Las platform.

Leviathan - I need to really run the numbers on this guy, but he seems to be very efficient still. Competes well with the Redemptor from what I've seen, but really wishes it was Core.

Others

Bladeguard and Eliminators are both just really powerful units. The latter can wind up in our Gravis team eventually, but dropping Bladeguard on an objective can do a solid job holding it down.

Personally, I've been doing two Fortis teams, bringing 10 outriders and pairing with a bike chaplain. They have been amazing objective holders, and with +1 to wound on the charge (from chaplain) paired with furor and chapter trait against troops, in the assault doctrine they blend up even a 20 man warrior blob (average 23).

Many have pointed out that they are not as points efficient as veteran bikers and don't hit as hard as other fast options (vvets mainly).

But I want a beefy chunky ob sec unit that can blend troops, and survive the punchback. As long as you keep them in dominus aura and or hit them with fortitude, they take crazy amount of punishment.

I pair them with two groups of inceptors... been working nice.

There's a pretty decent argument that Proteus does it better with 3 Vet Bikers and a couple VanVets. I definitely think there's some truth to it, but it does depend a bit on what buffs you're stacking.

 LunarSol wrote:
There's a pretty decent argument that Proteus does it better with 3 Vet Bikers and a couple VanVets. I definitely think there's some truth to it, but it does depend a bit on what buffs you're stacking.

Im firmly in this camp. You may get a few fewer wounds, but T5 2+/4++ obsec infantry that can kool aid man through walls (among all the other cover related bonuses they can acquire) while also packing LCs or Hammers of your preferred persuasion and being eligible for fallback shoot and charge shenanigans are hellaciously valuable disruptor units. Being able to not only be legitimate melee threats but ObSec on a mobile platform as well is the kind of combination that wins games in 9th.

The fact that they do it to the tune of 50-ish or more points cheaper than the Outrider blob (depending on your loadout) is icing on the cake.

I'm really digging the idea of some Indomitor teams with Eradicators deep-striking in to support a trio of Redemptor dreadnoughts. Everything is tough, and its a lot of anti-tank/anti-elite firepower. My main concern is the lack of melee weapons available to Heavy Intercessors, which I'm trying to cover with support characters and the dreads. What else should I look out for in a list like this?

Jump pack captain w/ teeth of terra & vigilance incarnate
Primaris chaplain on bike (smash variant)

5x Heavy Intercessors + 4x Eradicators
5x Heavy Intercessors + 4x Eradicators
5x Heavy Intercessors + 5x Plasma Inceptors

3x Redemptor Dreads w/ Onslaughts and rocket pods
Primaris Apothecary w/ upgrade
Company Champion w/ Dominus Aegis

Any thoughts on Jump Pack Captain loadouts? The Dominus Aegis and Master Crafted Xenophase combo is tempting.

I would personally go relic blade instead of xenophase, but really it just depends on what you expect to send him after.

For a smash captain, I imagine you'd want a Paragon(Salamanders)+Sword of the Imperium Teeth of Terra build. Puts you at 9 attacks on the charge of Str8 -2AP 2D. Alternate option is Paragon(Space Wolves) for only Str6 attacks, but +1 attack and +1 to wound when attacking a vehicle or monster. Makes you a little worse at killing marines (in this meta?!) but a little better against tanks and tyranids (because you're worried about Xenos... lol...) Or you can keep the Salamanders +2S trait and hit your smash cap with the +1 to wound litany from a friendly biker chaplain when it would matter.

Dominus Aegis is a relic for a defensive support captain, you don't want to be leashing your cruise missile to a mass of infantry to share the 5++, you want to loose that beast on a priority target and burn it down.

Sterling191 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
There's a pretty decent argument that Proteus does it better with 3 Vet Bikers and a couple VanVets. I definitely think there's some truth to it, but it does depend a bit on what buffs you're stacking.

Im firmly in this camp. You may get a few fewer wounds, but T5 2+/4++ obsec infantry that can kool aid man through walls (among all the other cover related bonuses they can acquire) while also packing LCs or Hammers of your preferred persuasion and being eligible for fallback shoot and charge shenanigans are hellaciously valuable disruptor units. Being able to not only be legitimate melee threats but ObSec on a mobile platform as well is the kind of combination that wins games in 9th.

The fact that they do it to the tune of 50-ish or more points cheaper than the Outrider blob (depending on your loadout) is icing on the cake.

Sorry can you tell me more how you get a t5 2+/4++ blob?
5 DWV with ss + 5 vet bikers?

They would only be as mobile as the DWV allowed, and you'd get 1 blob which is more expensive than the combat-squaded outruders, (taking only the value of the outriders)..

3 Vet Bikes 2 VanVets with Shields.

 Eldarain wrote:
3 Vet Bikes 2 VanVets with Shields.

Ah nice, down side is your start Nevis are temporary, but that does seem pretty hot in terms of options. How do you gear the vets? Ss/lc?

If you're giving a squad member a storm shield, he's likely to die before the non shielded members, thus you're better off putting special weapons on the non shielded members. Ergo, a vanguard veteran in a kill team carrying a storm shield ought likely be carrying a chainsword or deathwatch bolter to keep the model as cheap on points as possible. If you're spending points on special weaponry (unless it's a heavy thunder hammer, which precludes use of a storm shield), give them to the bikes.

weaver9 wrote:

Ah nice, down side is your start Nevis are temporary, but that does seem pretty hot in terms of options. How do you gear the vets? Ss/lc?

I'd almost certainly find the 6 total points for a claw apiece. If you're *really* tight on points you can go with chainswords. Their primary role is disruption, but giving them a melee bite that can scare somewhat beefier targets is points well spent IMO.

ryzouken wrote:
If you're giving a squad member a storm shield, he's likely to die before the non shielded members, thus you're better off putting special weapons on the non shielded members. Ergo, a vanguard veteran in a kill team carrying a storm shield ought likely be carrying a chainsword or deathwatch bolter to keep the model as cheap on points as possible. If you're spending points on special weaponry (unless it's a heavy thunder hammer, which precludes use of a storm shield), give them to the bikes.

Bikers in a Proteus Kill Team can only choose to take a Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Power Sword, Power Axe or Power Maul. They cannot take special or combi-weapons (the Sergeant can, but he isnt a legal option for a kill team). Likewise, VanVets cannot take bolters or combi-weapons.

 Leth wrote:
I would personally go relic blade instead of xenophase, but really it just depends on what you expect to send him after.

Yeah, I like the Relic Blade option as well, but taking away most every saving throw completely and still getting to D2 seems pretty nifty. It's likely a meta call, but most things worth sending a captain against probably have at least a 5++. I do like both, but the Xenophase stands out as something unique.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ryzouken wrote:
For a smash captain, I imagine you'd want a Paragon(Salamanders)+Sword of the Imperium Teeth of Terra build. Puts you at 9 attacks on the charge of Str8 -2AP 2D. Alternate option is Paragon(Space Wolves) for only Str6 attacks, but +1 attack and +1 to wound when attacking a vehicle or monster. Makes you a little worse at killing marines (in this meta?!) but a little better against tanks and tyranids (because you're worried about Xenos... lol...) Or you can keep the Salamanders +2S trait and hit your smash cap with the +1 to wound litany from a friendly biker chaplain when it would matter.

Dominus Aegis is a relic for a defensive support captain, you don't want to be leashing your cruise missile to a mass of infantry to share the 5++, you want to loose that beast on a priority target and burn it down.

Good options as well, but I think for the most part a Captain is too expensive to be just support, particularly if they have a jump pack (and without I've seen them mostly get stranded mid game) . It doesn't cost all that much to give him some bite to contribute, though its definitely not the smashiest thing out there.

The main thing I've started to lean on is that if I have a captain, its probably where I want the Aegis and I'm not really getting another Captain. The Champion is really the only cheap place for it otherwise and while I think he's an interesting option, the lack of utility beyond the Aegis itself makes him quite a bit less than the real thing even at nearly a third of the points.

 Sterling191 wrote:

ryzouken wrote:
If you're giving a squad member a storm shield, he's likely to die before the non shielded members, thus you're better off putting special weapons on the non shielded members. Ergo, a vanguard veteran in a kill team carrying a storm shield ought likely be carrying a chainsword or deathwatch bolter to keep the model as cheap on points as possible. If you're spending points on special weaponry (unless it's a heavy thunder hammer, which precludes use of a storm shield), give them to the bikes.

Bikers in a Proteus Kill Team can only choose to take a Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Power Sword, Power Axe or Power Maul. They cannot take special or combi-weapons (the Sergeant can, but he isnt a legal option for a kill team). Likewise, VanVets cannot take bolters or combi-weapons.

My apologies, my wording was imprecise. By special weapons I meant the special close combat weapons. Power swords, for instance, are particularly nifty with that +1S. The van vets not having access to bolters is a good catch, I was commenting away from codex and have been focusing more on primaris than firstborn. My point there was, if you expect to take the shield bearing van vets as casualties first, keeping them as cheap as possible makes a great deal of sense as you're otherwise investing points into models with short time to live.

The new Primaris shinies just got more expensive. Not at all surprised really, but it will be interesting to see how people react to pretty significant bumps in their cost.

Inceptors probably taking the biggest hit from that given the numbers they were being run in. Eradicators are still in the viability range, especially for DW.

Sterling191 wrote:
Inceptors probably taking the biggest hit from that given the numbers they were being run in. Eradicators are still in the viability range, especially for DW.

It makes them make a little more sense beside Aggressors now at least. Those guys had been pretty heavily outclassed outside of their melee potential. Not sure if either is really in the running anymore, but its more of a choice at least.

Is there any scope for deathwatch using the while we stand we fight change to combat squad cheap troops and expensive elites then hide the troops?
I'm thinking for example a Fortis kill team of 5 bikes and 5 intercessors. About a 350pt unit? Keep the intercessors at the back out of harm's way best you can?
Indomitor kill team could be good option too, already very difficult to kill all that gravis.

Maybe a waste of points...

Seems very doable. Apothecary/Librarian/Aegis can give us some really sturdy units even without Combat Squadding.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Currently thinking about this list. I’ve got 10 points left since the Eliminators and Outriders haven’t been updated that will probably turn into a Power Fist on the Intercessors. Also probably spend another CP on a WLT. Any thoughts?


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Deathwatch) [112 PL, 1,940pts, 8CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of Extra Relics

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 110pts, -1CP]: Astartes Chainsword, Jump Pack, Master-crafted boltgun, Stratagem: A Vigil Unmatched, Teeth of Terra, The Imperium's Sword, Warlord
. 2. Paragon of their Chapter: Salamanders: Anvil of Strength

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, 140pts]: 2. Catechism of Fire, 4. Mantra of Strength, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate, The Beacon Angelis

Watch Master [7 PL, 130pts]

+ Troops +

Fortis Kill Team [16 PL, 325pts]
. Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor w/ Bolt rifle: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Bolt rifle, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. 5x Outrider: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 5x Twin Bolt rifle

Indomitor Kill Team [24 PL, 370pts]
. 4x Eradicator w/ Heavy Melta Rifle: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Heavy Melta Rifle
. Eradicator w/ Multi-melta: Multi-melta
. Heavy Intercessor Sergeant: Hellstorm Bolt Rifle
. 4x Heavy Intercessor w/ Hellstorm Bolt Rifle: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Hellstorm Bolt Rifle

Proteus Kill Team [18 PL, 259pts]: Jump Packs
. Deathwatch Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Deathwatch Boltgun
. Deathwatch Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Deathwatch Boltgun
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. Veteran Biker: Power sword
. Veteran Biker
. Veteran Biker
. Watch Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Deathwatch Boltgun

Spectrus Kill Team [17 PL, 271pts]
. 4x Eliminator w/ Bolt Sniper: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Bolt sniper rifle, 4x Camo cloak, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Incursor
. 3x Infiltrator: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades, 3x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Helix Adept
. Infiltrator Sergeant

+ Elites +

Company Champion [3 PL, 55pts]: Dominus Aegis

Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, 95pts, -1CP]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

++ Total: [112 PL, 8CP, 1,940pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 LunarSol wrote:
Seems very doable. Apothecary/Librarian/Aegis can give us some really sturdy units even without Combat Squadding.

Gonna concur with this. Proteus teams behind a wall of shields, or Indomitors backed up by Invulns, FNPs and restoratives make for an interesting approach to the Secondary.

Can someone tell me if I have this right:

1. Take a Spectrus Kill Team.
2. Put 5 Eliminators in it.
3. Give them all Las Fusils.
4. Combat Squad them into their own unit.
5. Take a Phobos Librarian.
6. Put Soul Sight on them + Shrouding.

Do I now have 5 Las Fusils that can't be shot at unless they're the closest target and re-roll hits?

Audustum wrote:
Can someone tell me if I have this right:

1. Take a Spectrus Kill Team.
2. Put 5 Eliminators in it.
3. Give them all Las Fusils.
4. Combat Squad them into their own unit.
5. Take a Phobos Librarian.
6. Put Soul Sight on them + Shrouding.

Do I now have 5 Las Fusils that can't be shot at unless they're the closest target and re-roll hits?

Yes that's correct. Shrouded phobos units are also a good candidate for optimised priority to double up on usefulness, just bear in mind the opportunity cost of not using a librarian to access the very useful xenopurge discipline.

Insularum wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Can someone tell me if I have this right:

1. Take a Spectrus Kill Team.
2. Put 5 Eliminators in it.
3. Give them all Las Fusils.
4. Combat Squad them into their own unit.
5. Take a Phobos Librarian.
6. Put Soul Sight on them + Shrouding.

Do I now have 5 Las Fusils that can't be shot at unless they're the closest target and re-roll hits?

Yes that's correct. Shrouded phobos units are also a good candidate for optimised priority to double up on usefulness, just bear in mind the opportunity cost of not using a librarian to access the very useful xenopurge discipline.

Those are good spells too. Thank you!

I'm a little late on the draw, but a Deathwatch list just took a spot midway in the 5-2 bracket in a large event down under. For context, out of a nearly 80 player field only five went 6-1 or better.

List here

It's an interesting, albeit somewhat unorthodox list. Inceptors and Redemptors covered by a Libby's 5++ with Infiltrators and a Spectrus team for board presence and pressure if I'm understanding how it operates correctly. Xenophase slash cappy for wrecking face, a Jump MoS on Beacon Duty and the Libby is toting the Auspicator to deal with things like Harlequin bikes I expect.

Interesting list. Largely its Marine goodstuff, which admittedly, is what DW is now.

HQ loadout seems to be what is working out to be our best trio with a Captain/Librarian/Chaplain. I think we'll start seeing bikes over Jump Packs eventually, but the abilities are all solid. If only we could have a Master with a Shield. Tome and Beacon are pretty standard with the Auspicator being the Harlequinn meta pick. I suspect that's also the main draw to the Xenophase blade. Surprised there's no Apothecary, but there aren't great targets for it in this list. Callidus is an interesting choice. Always fond of assassins; they're just pricey these days.

Double Redemptor is solid; a bit sad there's no Aegis for them though. Inceptors still shine at killing marines and are increasingly a competitive staple.

Intercessors are a bit of an odd choice. The shoot twice strat may be enough to take them over a KT I suppose. Infilitrators continue to shine in Marine lists in general. Curious how well the Eliminators work for him or if it would be better to just take 5 Incursors in a Spectrus.

All in all, solid list obviously. I see things I want to be different, but my own list often comes to 2200 points so its a matter of what to cut. It'll be interesting to see if Gravis makes a difference.

 LunarSol wrote:
Interesting list. Largely its Marine goodstuff, which admittedly, is what DW is now.

HQ loadout seems to be what is working out to be our best trio with a Captain/Librarian/Chaplain. I think we'll start seeing bikes over Jump Packs eventually, but the abilities are all solid. If only we could have a Master with a Shield. Tome and Beacon are pretty standard with the Auspicator being the Harlequinn meta pick. I suspect that's also the main draw to the Xenophase blade. Surprised there's no Apothecary, but there aren't great targets for it in this list. Callidus is an interesting choice. Always fond of assassins; they're just pricey these days.

Double Redemptor is solid; a bit sad there's no Aegis for them though. Inceptors still shine at killing marines and are increasingly a competitive staple.

Intercessors are a bit of an odd choice. The shoot twice strat may be enough to take them over a KT I suppose. Infilitrators continue to shine in Marine lists in general. Curious how well the Eliminators work for him or if it would be better to just take 5 Incursors in a Spectrus.

All in all, solid list obviously. I see things I want to be different, but my own list often comes to 2200 points so its a matter of what to cut. It'll be interesting to see if Gravis makes a difference.

The more I look at this, the more I'm convinced this is a list built to go headhunting for Assasinate +/- Abhor the Witch, which likely plays into the decision to deploy Eliminators over cheaper bodies in the Spectrus formation. Two different Invuln ignoring melee threats plus souped up snipers mean that an opponent has to be seriously cagey with both movement and screening, or otherwise you're easily down linchpin support pieces plus 9+ VPs.

Wouldn't be able to go for Abhor with the Librarian in there, correct?

I am curious if there's something behind a trio of Eliminators with a Phobos captain for heavy character sniping. Probably not worth it, but it sounds fun. I think the 5 Incursors option is probably ideal for mission overall but Eliminators are a lot more fun.

 LunarSol wrote:
Wouldn't be able to go for Abhor with the Librarian in there, correct?

Correct, good catch. Might have to do a little bit of fiddling with a list of my own in that context...

 LunarSol wrote:

I am curious if there's something behind a trio of Eliminators with a Phobos captain for heavy character sniping. Probably not worth it, but it sounds fun. I think the 5 Incursors option is probably ideal for mission overall but Eliminators are a lot more fun.

I'm personally a big fan of a souped up Phobos captain, but it's not the most competitive choice. For FLGS and casual games though, they're a great pick and I fully intend to run one alongside Spectrus lads for maximum head popping

Honorable mention to Crusade as a format because I believe you can push them to flat 6D over the course of a campaign.