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I think they've pulled the facemasks off the warhammer merch store. Or run out of stock/moved them or such as they don't appear today.

Cheers. Maybe facemasks are only available in other regions. Would explain why I couldn't see them.

For those considering the Red Bubble ones, I bought four (not 40k inspired) ones earlier in the year.

They’re three ply cotton, and very comfortable.

No, they were up there when I viewed the merch store before the other day.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
pretty sad state of affairs if anyone finds any of this merch offensive, there is nothing there. Stop reaching...

There’s a difference between us knowing what it represents. It’s quite another to recognise that out there, somewhere, there’s someone who won’t get it. And a further another to realise I probably don’t really have the energy to deal with such and set them straight.

That belief system you are expressing has its own inherent dangers.
However, I don't want to derail this thread from its intent so will refrain from OT conversation.

 bullyboy wrote:
pretty sad state of affairs if anyone finds any of this merch offensive, there is nothing there. Stop reaching...

You know what a black templar is. Johnny NotWargamer will see a white cross on your chest on all-black hoodie. You can blame them for ruining certain symbols for everyone.

Gotta agree, first thing I thought when I saw a lot of these new designs was "kind of tone-deaf, GW." The symbols work just fine on the tabletop and in the fluff because they're contextualize in a onetime satirical, now half-serious grimdark universe. And there are plenty of people who are now unironically using those same symbols within our community to promote hate. That's pretty gross.

I joyfully painted my brother up some Black Templars last Christmas, because we both read Grimaldus and love that Chapter. But neither of use would likely choose to wear a shirt with just the Templar cross on it and nothing else. It's about being respectful of the larger context in which we operate.

This context will be different on a local level, and I don't expect much friction from someone wearing a Templar shirt into their FLGS and having a fun pick-up game. But if they stop at the supermarket on their way home, they are bringing that symbol to another context. I'd argue that most people in a random supermarket are more familiar with that symbol in the context of hate and oppression (or the Crusades ~ same thing! A joke, but also not a joke).

I'm not telling anyone not to wear clothing they want to wear. But you are responsible for the messaging you send to the world around you, so why not be strategic and not cause stress and uncertainty in spaces that don't need it?


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Edit: also not to derail: I do love that Necron Christmas sweater. I looked up some reviews of Merchoid, they seem to be of variable repute, some people being really unsatisfied with their service. Thoughts and feelings? anyone have experience buying from them? I assume GW wouldn't partner with an outright scam, but it wouldn't be the worst public gaff they made.

It might be worth telling/reminding GW of this because I tink all they've done is take a load of symbols and give them to the merch firm to print on stuff. They've likely not thought outside the box at all.

 Overread wrote:
It might be worth telling/reminding GW of this because I tink all they've done is take a load of symbols and give them to the merch firm to print on stuff. They've likely not thought outside the box at all.

Yeah, I might send an email to the customer service page. I don't think I'd have any new information that the most basic market research wouldn't reveal, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.

Well, we do know what GW used to think of market research - hint, it wasn't positive - but that attitude may have changed over the last few years.

It can't hurt and heck a simple "Warhammer 40K" logo or such on the shirts or near the icon would easily resolve most of the ambiguity and wouldn't be that detracting to a potential buyer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:
Well, we do know what GW used to think of market research - hint, it wasn't positive - but that attitude may have changed over the last few years.

One hopes that that market attitude left with Kirby. Whilst he wasn't all bad (indeed in his early days his strategies really turned GW's financials around for the good of the firm and us), the whole lack of market research and the desire to even avoid it was a very bad practice for any firm; but especially one so heavily reliant on their customers to promote their brand and game.

 Overread wrote:
It can't hurt and heck a simple "Warhammer 40K" logo or such on the shirts or near the icon would easily resolve most of the ambiguity and wouldn't be that detracting to a potential buyer.

Yeah, an elegant solution. Providing the necessary context.

 Dysartes wrote:
Well, we do know what GW used to think of market research - hint, it wasn't positive - but that attitude may have changed over the last few years.

Eep, yer right! I always forget about the Tom Kirby days, that was when I took my eight-year hobby hiatus. Lots of things I wasn't crazy about 8th ed, but it got me back in the hobby.

I'm amazed they'd offer pre-issue 100 WD t-shirts that mention non-GW games.

Still nothing for any of the Undivided Legions except for Black Legion? Booo gw, throw a Nostroman a bone already.

And to anyone who thinks these are too "busy" or "offensive", you've obviously never seen my collection of Cannibal Corpse and Agoraphobic Nosebleed t-shirts.

I like the chaos jacket. Looks really cool.
But way too much.
Christmas Necron jumper is funky.
You’d pay £15-20 for a Christmas jumper, that’d be alright

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:
Gotta agree, first thing I thought when I saw a lot of these new designs was "kind of tone-deaf, GW." The symbols work just fine on the tabletop and in the fluff because they're contextualize in a onetime satirical, now half-serious grimdark universe. And there are plenty of people who are now unironically using those same symbols within our community to promote hate. That's pretty gross.

I joyfully painted my brother up some Black Templars last Christmas, because we both read Grimaldus and love that Chapter. But neither of use would likely choose to wear a shirt with just the Templar cross on it and nothing else. It's about being respectful of the larger context in which we operate.

This context will be different on a local level, and I don't expect much friction from someone wearing a Templar shirt into their FLGS and having a fun pick-up game. But if they stop at the supermarket on their way home, they are bringing that symbol to another context. I'd argue that most people in a random supermarket are more familiar with that symbol in the context of hate and oppression (or the Crusades ~ same thing! A joke, but also not a joke).

I'm not telling anyone not to wear clothing they want to wear. But you are responsible for the messaging you send to the world around you, so why not be strategic and not cause stress and uncertainty in spaces that don't need it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
---------

Edit: also not to derail: I do love that Necron Christmas sweater. I looked up some reviews of Merchoid, they seem to be of variable repute, some people being really unsatisfied with their service. Thoughts and feelings? anyone have experience buying from them? I assume GW wouldn't partner with an outright scam, but it wouldn't be the worst public gaff they made.

Haven’t read bullgak like in the link to vice for a while now. Love the journalism of “we are reporting it with no evidence”. Can’t believe people still think, that Pepe the frog is racist, or the existence of a meme with Trump as Emperor is hurtful and demonstrates, that 40k fans are white supremacists (nice logic pattern, huh?). And what kind of a “free” world do you live in, where you would have to explain someone on the street, why you have an Imperial eagle on your jacket? Or the cross of Black Templars? And here is a puzzler for you: the BT cross is promoting hate, but real Catholic symbols don’t?

The Merch is fine, wouldn’t really pick something up myself- just not THAT keen on any of it. The sweaters are ugly though, haha
I wish there was a wider range of t shirts with WD covers on them. Well, with art from WD covers, the WD logo I can live without.

Once a symbol has been claimed, it cannot be removed from that larger context. You have the freedom to not explain your choice to wear those symbols - but to ignore that they also have meaning to other people that are not you is a bit myopic. The claim isn't that the symbols are inherently bad. The claim is that in a context where there are heightened instances of racially-motivated violence and acts of hate, wearing a symbol that has been appropriated by actual, literal nazis is - in my opinion - a legitimate point of critique.

Whut. We're not talking about legitimate, associated-with-massive-atrocities "hate symbols" here, where any and all former meaning has been washed away in the minds of the vast majority of people by its association with some massive horror. I mean heck, templar crosses have been used by various "unsavoury" groups for decades, from religious extremists to biker gangs, but despite that the first association the vast majority of people would have with it is either the actual historical Templars, or the Assassin's Creed videogames. Being self-censorious to the kind of degree you're talking about is...well, I legitimately can't find words to express how bizarre within the rules of the forum. Very, very, very bizarre.


Anyway, if we can drift back to discussing the merch itself rather than teetering on the edge of a Critical Theory 101 lecture: has anyone ordered any of the art prints? They're obscenely, farcically, outrageously priced for what are, basically, posters...but I really do have a thing for that 3rd edition Black Templars boxart. What sort of quality do you get for that ridiculous price? Do the larger sizes have sufficient print resolution that they don't look fuzzy? Is the paper any good?

I can just about talk myself into spending 60 quid on a poster if it's a really nice poster that will look good on a wall and be durable once in a frame, but TBH I don't trust GW not to be selling what is functionally a 4 quid band poster that will fade and degrade within a couple of years.

 bullyboy wrote:
pretty sad state of affairs if anyone finds any of this merch offensive, there is nothing there. Stop reaching...

If people can find it in themselves to complain about a miniature of a religious executioner wearing a capirote and a noose, or even the Nega Chin from Fairly Odd Parents..... they’ll complain about this stuff. I could also see an actual veteran getting mad about some dork wearing the imperial guard slogans.

But anyways, I bought the World Eaters sweater last year but I could go for that Eye of Horus sweater to wear to work this year

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:
Gotta agree, first thing I thought when I saw a lot of these new designs was "kind of tone-deaf, GW." The symbols work just fine on the tabletop and in the fluff because they're contextualize in a onetime satirical, now half-serious grimdark universe. And there are plenty of people who are now unironically using those same symbols within our community to promote hate. That's pretty gross.

I joyfully painted my brother up some Black Templars last Christmas, because we both read Grimaldus and love that Chapter. But neither of use would likely choose to wear a shirt with just the Templar cross on it and nothing else. It's about being respectful of the larger context in which we operate.

This context will be different on a local level, and I don't expect much friction from someone wearing a Templar shirt into their FLGS and having a fun pick-up game. But if they stop at the supermarket on their way home, they are bringing that symbol to another context. I'd argue that most people in a random supermarket are more familiar with that symbol in the context of hate and oppression (or the Crusades ~ same thing! A joke, but also not a joke).

I'm not telling anyone not to wear clothing they want to wear. But you are responsible for the messaging you send to the world around you, so why not be strategic and not cause stress and uncertainty in spaces that don't need it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
---------

Edit: also not to derail: I do love that Necron Christmas sweater. I looked up some reviews of Merchoid, they seem to be of variable repute, some people being really unsatisfied with their service. Thoughts and feelings? anyone have experience buying from them? I assume GW wouldn't partner with an outright scam, but it wouldn't be the worst public gaff they made.

Haven’t read bullgak like in the link to vice for a while now. Love the journalism of “we are reporting it with no evidence”. Can’t believe people still think, that Pepe the frog is racist, or the existence of a meme with Trump as Emperor is hurtful and demonstrates, that 40k fans are white supremacists (nice logic pattern, huh?). And what kind of a “free” world do you live in, where you would have to explain someone on the street, why you have an Imperial eagle on your jacket? Or the cross of Black Templars? And here is a puzzler for you: the BT cross is promoting hate, but real Catholic symbols don’t?

The Merch is fine, wouldn’t really pick something up myself- just not THAT keen on any of it. The sweaters are ugly though, haha
I wish there was a wider range of t shirts with WD covers on them. Well, with art from WD covers, the WD logo I can live without.

Once a symbol has been claimed, it cannot be removed from that larger context. You have the freedom to not explain your choice to wear those symbols - but to ignore that they also have meaning to other people that are not you is a bit myopic. The claim isn't that the symbols are inherently bad. The claim is that in a context where there are heightened instances of racially-motivated violence and acts of hate, wearing a symbol that has been appropriated by actual, literal nazis is - in my opinion - a legitimate point of critique.

I wish nazis would adopt logos of Apple or Google. I wonder how then the “claimed symbol” argument would stand. German crosses from WW2 look different, btw, just so you know. And the nazis haven’t used the two headed eagle. So those symbols are not the symbols you’re talking about, therefore your critique is out of place. Slayer T-shirts are a dozen times more risqué.

The claimed symbol argument refers to symbols that have been charged in the public discourse. It would take an awful lot of alt-right shitposting to adopt Apple and Google logos in the same way that templar crosses and swastikas have been compromised. My claim is not that there is an unilinear connection from German symbols in WW2 to those being used in Warhammer. My claim is that the way we see those symbols used, matters. This hobby is already fairly niche, and these kinds of subcultures have fewer internal defenses to this kind of symbolic appropriation - and the absence of top-down leadership reminding people that Warhammer is supposed to be satirical. The comparison to Google/Apple is not a valid one, because those logos are much more conspicuous.

You posit that symbols are value neutral. I disagree. I'm not sure further dialogue will be productive because we have that fundamental disagreement.

How would a warhammer fan use the symbols on the merch he’s bought to inflict pain and suffering through “symbol appropriation”? My position is not that all symbols are all neutral, I don’t know why you would think that. My position is that it bloody matters what symbols we are talking about. Templars haven’t used those exact crosses either. To generalize the way you do is just unthinkable. You think that the symbols GW used are charged, and that started the whole debate. I can’t understand why you would think that.

This thread is like two posts away from being completely derailed

 LiftForSwift wrote:
This thread is like two posts away from being completely derailed

Nope, it already has when you have people reaching from the beginning like this. We've hit full political when people already started commenting on certain things.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 LiftForSwift wrote:
This thread is like two posts away from being completely derailed

Nope, it already has when you have people reaching from the beginning like this. We've hit full political when people already started commenting on certain things.

It's not much of a stretch when we literally had a thread back when the OT boards were a thing where a member's date called him a Nazi and walked out because he had the double headed Imperium eagle as a tattoo. The way the average person sees things is waaaaay different from the way people involved in said thing sees them.

Can they please stop putting the Aquila on merchandise?
I dont want to be walking around with a giant eagle on my clothes.

Yeah this aint really worth it too much. It's GW, they should do some better products sometimes rather then the cheaper route.

Most of this merch is horrible. Overgaudi. Good hoodies and t-shirts are ones with stilized cool symbols and iconography.

I was looking for a good adeptus custodes one but they were all too bus.y

I very suspect very little of this had any GW input except for art files and a check to see that they symbols etc are 'right'

most likely the merch companies decide what they want to make

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I very suspect very little of this had any GW input except for art files and a check to see that they symbols etc are 'right'

most likely the merch companies decide what they want to make

People with no real monetary pull have more control over their Teespring products than that, so I doubt a licensed product from a multi-million dollar company has no input from said license giver.

 Overread wrote:
I think they've pulled the facemasks off the warhammer merch store. Or run out of stock/moved them or such as they don't appear today.

Hmm. The masks were a mixed bag. I got one of the ork ones. It is, hands down, the most comfortable mask I have. It doesn't have earloops, which is a godsend for someone who wears glasses (or hearing aids, I suspect).

On the other hand, the metal strip for the nose was waaaaay too long and wasn't fixed in place, so it could slide too far to the left or right. It could also flip over inside the mask, which was annoying. When being washed, it poked it's way through the fabric and exited the mask.

However, that made the mask even more comfortable. If the dang thing hadn't been so expensive, I would have bought five.

 GaroRobe wrote:



For the low, low price of 79 pounds, you too can look like Chaotic Jason Todd

went with this. i'd rather have the imperial one, but black on black is boring. fashion is the first step to heresy

 Olthannon wrote:

 Overread wrote:
The White Dwarf cover shirts might be interesting, though it doesn't seem they are on sale yet?

The annoying thing is the shirts with art on would likely be cheaper than if GW were selling an art print/poster with the same art on them

Totally, honestly if they just had a few subtle things, a dark red shirt with the mechanicus cog on or something, some eldar shirts with the individual craftworld runes on, they'd be really cool.

Yeah, put some of the more unique symbols/designs on there in a faded/washed out style and some of it would look good. While I don't want "maybe nazi?" symbols on my clothing (especially since I am a balding white guy and thus shave my head) I also don't want "Armored Sexy Lady!" or a Daemonette on my shirt.
I'd personally like the Baneblade diagram shirt if it didn't have the Astra Militarum logo on the bottom, same with some of the other ones...put the Blanche and other classic old artwork on shirts (without context) and people will just think you're a hipster.

Y'know America uses eagles in their symbols too.

Just sayin'...