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I just wish they'd get better names. 'Plague Surgeon' is probably the best of the bunch.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I just wish they'd get better names. 'Plague Surgeon' is probably the best of the bunch.

Tallyman also works well... for the others, it's pretty telling when your entire gaming group calls them "Caster with the stink cloud", "Biology Professor", "Bell Guy" and "Puke-achu" (German: Pikotzu) instead of their official names.

I meant characters across both HQ & Elite slots, although I wasn't wrong re: HQ choices either. DG gained access to more characters than they lost. From the 6th/7th codex to 8th they lost Warpsmiths & Dark Apostles but gained Lords of Contagion + Malignant Plaguecasters + Noxious Blightbringers + Foul Blightspawns + Biologus Putrifiers + Plague Surgeons + Tallymen. Now in 9th we also get the Lord of Virulence. In case you were struggling, the number they gained is bigger than the number they lost.

Most outdone by having a Daemon Prince on the board.

I really hope the DG characters get some better abilities and usefulness. I have all the characters painted but very little reason to use them on the table.

 Eldarsif wrote:

I meant characters across both HQ & Elite slots, although I wasn't wrong re: HQ choices either. DG gained access to more characters than they lost. From the 6th/7th codex to 8th they lost Warpsmiths & Dark Apostles but gained Lords of Contagion + Malignant Plaguecasters + Noxious Blightbringers + Foul Blightspawns + Biologus Putrifiers + Plague Surgeons + Tallymen. Now in 9th we also get the Lord of Virulence. In case you were struggling, the number they gained is bigger than the number they lost.

Most outdone by having a Daemon Prince on the board.

I really hope the DG characters get some better abilities and usefulness. I have all the characters painted but very little reason to use them on the table.

True. I'm cautiously optimistic that GW incorporate some of the abilities they received as stratagems in WoTS into their actual datasheets, which would solve quite a few issues. Would love a reason to run some of our minor characters

I'm hoping they add some undivided units into DG like the disco lord or havocs.

I like that the Death Guard specifically don't have certain things. It gives them more identity and it creates a sensical balance with the army-specific options they gain. Otherwise they would be CSM+extra. I wish loyalist marine armies followed that trend.

For me, I never understood why DG did not get Obliterators.. I mean, come on.. they are techno-VIRUS INFECTED .. which is Papa Nurgles wheelhouse..

That particular one does confuse me as well. And I'm pretty sure there was a fluff snippet about Pet & Morty working together on a new strain, even.

I have 6 beautifully converted, sculpted, and painted Death Guard Obliterators. Makes me super sad that they screwed DG out of those units with the 8th ed codex.

Anyway, I am burned out waiting for the codex and real news. Waiting almost three and a half years for a modern update is rough with an unexpected 5-6 week delay added on top at the last minute. I really wish they would just release the digital version or something. At this point I really want to see the entire thing.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I like that the Death Guard specifically don't have certain things. It gives them more identity and it creates a sensical balance with the army-specific options they gain. Otherwise they would be CSM+extra. I wish loyalist marine armies followed that trend.

I agree, and they used to. Other than Grey Knights there is very little reason to do marine on marine soup anymore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Death Guard Obliterators really do make a lot of sense both fluff wise and visually.

I played a 2k pt game against Blood Angels with all the new rules and reveals. Since I didn’t know how much the points for DG would increase I only played 1800pts. I played a Demon Prince, LoC, 2x PBC, 2x MBH, 2x bloat drones with fleshmowers, 3x PM with two blight launchers each, unit of Blightlords with flail, and a unit of three Deathshroud. I didn’t use any strategems, relics, or traits that I thought would be changed. They were all very vanilla stuff. Additionally I didn’t play DTTFE and only used hateful assault which I expect will be in the codex. Here are my lessons:

IA: Our new chapter trait, well honestly sucks. I really miss being able to not take any modifiers to my blight launchers and bolters are still meh (hopefully there are some strategems). Trying to shoot units out of cover with at 2+ save is almost pointless. In fact, all our small arms lack the volume and AP of our SM brothers. The only real highlight is that our MBH are very nasty shooting in combat. That is the good part or IA.

Contagions of Nurgle: a very nice ability I hope there are more options. It really only seems to make a difference against T4 units mostly. It did come up occasionally with other things, but I’m curious what else they may have.

Plague Marines: Are much more resilient than they were before. The damage 2 weapons only being D1 really helps them survive. It did feel weird that bolter shots no longer got DR. They are better for sure. Additionally, they are much more deadly in close combat with the -1 AP on their plague knives, contagions ability, and extra attack. I assume they will keep a strategem like trench fighters so I used it and they are almost as deadly as BA assault marines charging and can clear objectives.

Deathshroud: (I kept them as a 4++) These guys after 5 turns actually were able to kill a unit of intercessors. The biggest problem is they lack any mobility or ways to make charges easier out of deepstrike and get shot to bits. The STR 3 no AP flamers were meh and think did a wound. They are still just too slow to be useful.

Blightlords: (I kept them as a 4++) I didn’t use aura of rust, but the biggest problem with these guys is the same as above. They really cant even go toe to toe with a unit of blade guard veterans. They only have have D1 weapons which is problematic and are very slow. The flail is the only saving grace in combat. If they nerf it I don’t seeing these being very viable.

Lord of Contagion: This guy seems to be very tough. I also gave him the trait/relic that allows him to get back a 1HP each turn and reduce Str of units within 3” assumed he now had the reroll ones for core units ability and lost his silly Mortal Wound ability. He was a beat stick with his 3 damage weapon which clears BGVs and other units. Super slow but he can hang back and go jump in a fight.

DP: Still super expensive not sure if he is worth it with wings 200pts is steep. I think I would rather have Tyhpus or something.

MBH: Yea these guys did very well. They are very solid in shooting and combat. Love the IA rules allowing the melta and missiles really hurt unit that charge into them. I expect they keep the -1 to hit and the 7” cover save aura, but lost the tri-lobe skill.

PBC: THe new entropy cannons are very nasty and the mortars did some serious work picking off hiding units. The D3+3 (assumed plague weapon) is very good. I love the BS3 on these and not making them core. It makes it so you don't feel like you have to keep them in a parking lot.

Fleshmowers: Really didn’t do too much for me, but were a big distraction. I don’t think these will see a huge points increase. THey remind me a Furioso Dreadnaught that is a big distraction to allow your force to move up.

The game ended up being very close, but ended in a DG victory on turn 5 when the BA player was tabled. The book depending on points and strategems could be very good. The terminators really need a way to get into combat more reliably and it would be nice to see a Nurgle transhuman ability that makes it so that a unit can be more resilient when you need it.

All good stuff to hear, well not good for what under performs but over all just good news with what we know and how it works without knowing the full story. I guess the points and strats are going to really make or break us.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I like that the Death Guard specifically don't have certain things. It gives them more identity and it creates a sensical balance with the army-specific options they gain. Otherwise they would be CSM+extra. I wish loyalist marine armies followed that trend.

True, but in the case of giving them access to the Disco Lord(and if they keep the Ironclot Furnace), DG could possibly be better poised to push the daemon engine spam than vanilla CSM.

Lore-wise the lord discordant is out of question for DG, so don't get your hopes up.

 l0k1 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I like that the Death Guard specifically don't have certain things. It gives them more identity and it creates a sensical balance with the army-specific options they gain. Otherwise they would be CSM+extra. I wish loyalist marine armies followed that trend.

True, but in the case of giving them access to the Disco Lord(and if they keep the Ironclot Furnace), DG could possibly be better poised to push the daemon engine spam than vanilla CSM.

We already know that the Lord of Virulence is going to be our "daemon engine guy". I don't think DG are going to gain access to the Lord Discordant.

I just wish they would bring back Oblits for them. I'd be pretty pleased personally speaking.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
I just wish they would bring back Oblits for them. I'd be pretty pleased personally speaking.

You'd think it'd be their way of creating some new plague ridden DG oblits. If Morty is trying to make some new variant it'd be a good time to give them a new plague oblit or whatever oddball name they'd give them.

"Death Guard Obliterator"

No it would be some kind of other name like " Disturbingly odoriferious Snotblasters "

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
No it would be some kind of other name like " Disturbingly odoriferious Snotblasters "

Well, there it is. The custom name for my Death Guard force.

Can't wait to smell them in action.

 Jidmah wrote:
Lore-wise the lord discordant is out of question for DG, so don't get your hopes up.

For those of us without the CSM book, Jidmah, how significant is the lore blockage?

To put bluntly, DG don't have warpsmiths, so there is little reason why they should have mounted warpsmiths.

Essentially the whole concept of a warpsmith doesn't work for Death Guard, as all their creations would either rot away or turn into flesh. That said, despite all that the defiler's fluff actually says that they are created by warpsmiths and the dark mechanicum in Death Guard manufactoriums all across the galaxy. It's not really clear whether those smiths are actual members of the Death Guard or free agents.

 Jidmah wrote:
To put bluntly, DG don't have warpsmiths, so there is little reason why they should have mounted warpsmiths.

Essentially the whole concept of a warpsmith doesn't work for Death Guard, as all their creations would either rot away or turn into flesh. That said, despite all that the defiler's fluff actually says that they are created by warpsmiths and the dark mechanicum in Death Guard manufactoriums all across the galaxy. It's not really clear whether those smiths are actual members of the Death Guard or free agents.

Given that the Plagueburst Crawler was created by Mortrarian I doubt he would just generously donate it to free agents to create given how paranoid he is.

There's also the fact that there's lore on Nurgle Lord Discordants so it's.. odd to think of otherwise that they couldn't have access to Warpsmith and Warpsmith types, though knowing GW we'd get plague specific ones.

Mortarion is many things, but he never struck me as particularly paranoid about someone stealing his war tactics. A PBC wouldn't be of much use to legions less resilient to plagues and toxins.

Nevertheless, the dark mechanicum already are non-death guard agents, and the blurb was specifically referencing the defiler - a war machine created and given to Mortarion by Abaddon. A warp smith might be essential to that particular process.

They did go through the effort of explicitly banning DG (and TS) from getting the FW warpsmith variants in 8th, so they were rather clear that they don't intend them to have any warp smiths (see here).

 Jidmah wrote:
Mortarion is many things, but he never struck me as particularly paranoid about someone stealing his war tactics. A PBC wouldn't be of much use to legions less resilient to plagues and toxins.

He'd probably want people to emulate his tactics as proof of his genius.

 Jidmah wrote:
Nevertheless, the dark mechanicum already are non-death guard agents, and the blurb was specifically referencing the defiler - a war machine created and given to Mortarion by Abaddon. A warp smith might be essential to that particular process.

They did go through the effort of explicitly banning DG (and TS) from getting the FW warpsmith variants in 8th, so they were rather clear that they don't intend them to have any warp smiths (see here).

I imagine the Death Guard maintain Defilers in the same manner as Bloat Drones / PBCs / Blight Haulers.

Feels like they require a sorcerer more than a mechanic.

I know I'm getting a bit into wishlisting, but seeing as we are talking about what Chaos Units do not suit being in a DG army, I've been thinking about what could potentially be added.

We already have possessed, so I don't see why a greater possessed and Master of possession would not also make sense.
I would drop the regular sorcerer completely or else have it a proper DG version (Same for the regular Lord)

I hope that after showing DG versioned Possessed that ALL units should be DG versions if they are in the book. Points cost changes already included.

Do a servant of Nurgle, and especially ones as exalted in status as the Death Guard, corrosion and regrowth can very much be the same thing. It is possible their vehicles don't need any maintenance because steady erosion over time would empower more than debilitate. Or put simply--they regenerate faster than they wear out. For daemon engines I imagine this is particularly true, provided the daemon(s) are kept bound. Which goes back to what techsoldaten said about needing a sorcerer more than a mechanic.

A sorcerer - or a Master of Possession

Doohicky wrote:
I know I'm getting a bit into wishlisting, but seeing as we are talking about what Chaos Units do not suit being in a DG army, I've been thinking about what could potentially be added.

I'd love to have greater integration of Nurgle daemons.