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So what predictions do you guys have for the upcoming codex that hasn’t been previewed?

Here are a list of my top 7:
1) We keep Hateful Assault, but lose DTTFE
2) Poxwalkers get a 5+ invul save to replace DR
3) Lords of contagions get the reroll 1s aura for core units and lose thier dumb MW aura.
4) they give our chaos lords T5 or remove them from the codex
5) We get access to obliterators.
6) Nurgle daemons are no longer in the codex
7) Arch-contaminator is no longer an option

Bonus: if the Tallyman keeps 7-fold chant it works on a 7 or greater roll and the Plague Surgeon gives us a 6+++

I still hope for the Tallyman to be able to actually chant things like the apostles.

broxus wrote:
So what predictions do you guys have for the upcoming codex that hasn’t been previewed?

Here are a list of my top 7:

4W Deathshroud.

 techsoldaten wrote:

broxus wrote:
So what predictions do you guys have for the upcoming codex that hasn’t been previewed?

Here are a list of my top 7:

4W Deathshroud.

We've seen their amended box datasheet which shows 3W, making this rather unlikely

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

broxus wrote:
So what predictions do you guys have for the upcoming codex that hasn’t been previewed?

Here are a list of my top 7:

4W Deathshroud.

We've seen their amended box datasheet which shows 3W, making this rather unlikely

I saw the datasheet for Blightlords, hadn't seen Deathshrouds.

Would have made them truly useful.

Something fun like the Nurgle space hulk lads and bugs would be cool.

 lare2 wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
I know I'm getting a bit into wishlisting, but seeing as we are talking about what Chaos Units do not suit being in a DG army, I've been thinking about what could potentially be added.

I'd love to have greater integration of Nurgle daemons.

I say make one army book for each god containing both the mortal and daemon elements. Works really well in AoS.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 lare2 wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
I know I'm getting a bit into wishlisting, but seeing as we are talking about what Chaos Units do not suit being in a DG army, I've been thinking about what could potentially be added.

I'd love to have greater integration of Nurgle daemons.

I say make one army book for each god containing both the mortal and daemon elements. Works really well in AoS.

I agree with this 100%

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 lare2 wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
I know I'm getting a bit into wishlisting, but seeing as we are talking about what Chaos Units do not suit being in a DG army, I've been thinking about what could potentially be added.

I'd love to have greater integration of Nurgle daemons.

I say make one army book for each god containing both the mortal and daemon elements. Works really well in AoS.

Great idea, because the game absolutely needed more bloat to begin with.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 lare2 wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
I know I'm getting a bit into wishlisting, but seeing as we are talking about what Chaos Units do not suit being in a DG army, I've been thinking about what could potentially be added.

I'd love to have greater integration of Nurgle daemons.

I say make one army book for each god containing both the mortal and daemon elements. Works really well in AoS.

Great idea, because the game absolutely needed more bloat to begin with.

It would actually reduce the books and get rid of the daemon bookend place the units in other codexes.

Yeah, it would be less bloat. Not sure what he's getting at there.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Yeah, it would be less bloat. Not sure what he's getting at there.

It's Slayer - I think he thinks he has a contractual obligation to whine (and/or angrily rant) about bloat any time someone suggests adding something new to 40k.

Tying some of the DG rules/auras to "friendly NURGLE" rather than just "friendly DEATH GUARD" would help with the integration - I can't remember, and I'm away from my books, but is Nurgle a Faction Keyword or just a Keyword?

 Dysartes wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Yeah, it would be less bloat. Not sure what he's getting at there.

It's Slayer - I think he thinks he has a contractual obligation to whine (and/or angrily rant) about bloat any time someone suggests adding something new to 40k.

Tying some of the DG rules/auras to "friendly NURGLE" rather than just "friendly DEATH GUARD" would help with the integration - I can't remember, and I'm away from my books, but is Nurgle a Faction Keyword or just a Keyword?

NURGLE is a faction keyword. For the record, Mortarion's faction keywords are NURGLE, CHAOS, HERETIC ASTARTES, and DEATH GUARD. I'm betting that's going to be the same for most Death Guard units.

AoS Chaos book organization is miles ahead 40k one.

5 chaos books, one for each god with demons+dedicated legion and one for all the other chaos legions and you are set. You can have other books for other chaos forces just like in aos you have beasts of chaos etc...

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Yeah, it would be less bloat. Not sure what he's getting at there.

It depends on how many shared mortal units you have? if few to none then its not bloat but if every dex has lots of generic Chaos Marine units its the same issue as Marines?

That being said I really like the idea of five books for chaos - one for each Power and one for anything else/ unaligned.

The way it works is off the God-specific keyword. So for 40k it would be one book for Nurgle, this would contain all of the things that are specific to him. Daemons of Nurgle, Death Guard, Gellarpox, and anything else that can only be fielded as Nurgle. The army-wide benefits (doctrine equivalents) would be for having all units be Nurgle, with extra bonuses for individual detachments that were DG or DoN. Some buffs would be based off the Nurgle keyword while others remain specific; something that buffs bolters or blight grenades, for example, would obviously remain specific to Death Guard. But your daemon prince and greater daemon auras would affect anything Nurgle.

Importantly, while none of the generic CSM would be in this book they can gain the Nurgle keyword. Meaning detachments of all Nurgle-marked CSM could be part of an army and still benefit from the army-wide Nurgle effects. Codex: Generic Chaos would have all of the generic CSM and Daemons stuff (like DPs, soul grinders, cultists) and have the detachment-specific rules for CSM legions/warbands just like it does now. It would also have the rules for army-wide benefits if the entire army is CSM, and these benefits would not 'care' about god keyword (and obviously an army could only get one set of army-wide buffs).

Does that make sense?

Makes sense and would be lush.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The way it works is off the God-specific keyword. So for 40k it would be one book for Nurgle, this would contain all of the things that are specific to him. Daemons of Nurgle, Death Guard, Gellarpox, and anything else that can only be fielded as Nurgle. The army-wide benefits (doctrine equivalents) would be for having all units be Nurgle, with extra bonuses for individual detachments that were DG or DoN. Some buffs would be based off the Nurgle keyword while others remain specific; something that buffs bolters or blight grenades, for example, would obviously remain specific to Death Guard. But your daemon prince and greater daemon auras would affect anything Nurgle.

Importantly, while none of the generic CSM would be in this book they can gain the Nurgle keyword. Meaning detachments of all Nurgle-marked CSM could be part of an army and still benefit from the army-wide Nurgle effects. Codex: Generic Chaos would have all of the generic CSM and Daemons stuff (like DPs, soul grinders, cultists) and have the detachment-specific rules for CSM legions/warbands just like it does now. It would also have the rules for army-wide benefits if the entire army is CSM, and these benefits would not 'care' about god keyword (and obviously an army could only get one set of army-wide buffs).

Does that make sense?

As long as the Undivided codex has good rules for the Legions that don't run around with daemons and worship the Chaos Gods. That said, the Death Guard codex should have all NURGLE units in it, and including them in an army shouldn't "break doctrines". It wouldn't be "bloated", it isn't like Death Guard have that many units to begin with.

Nah the Death Guard codex shouldn't contain or cater to daemons at all - Nurgle Daemons stopping contagions from spreading is fluffy.

Err wait a minute, that doesn't sound right.

I'd like all daemon units to be in the DG codex, but I'd like to see a split in how the armywide doctrines work.


Have three sections:

If all units are Nurgle you get X bonus.

If all units are Death Guard you get Y bonus.

If all units are both Death Guard AND Nurgle you get X and Y bonus.

I don't think there would be a distinction between 2 and 3 there. It would be impossible to be completely Death Guard and not be completely Nurgle. No?

Something closer to how AoS does it would be nice. Be tricky to get the Undivided book right though (I have no idea how they'll be able to do the 9th CSM book and have the pure faction buffs work properly for all subfactions.)

It's probably asking for way too much but I love nurglings so I hope they are there. The little buggers are just so cute, come on GW, make it a nurgling new year.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Nah the Death Guard codex shouldn't contain or cater to daemons at all - Nurgle Daemons stopping contagions from spreading is fluffy.

Err wait a minute, that doesn't sound right.

DG only being able to operate a full efficiency when they bring daemons or other legions along is even less fluffy. This kind of rule is meant to reward playing mono-codex DG, something that was nothing but a handicap up until now.

If you want a fluff justification - I imagine controlled spreading of the newest plagues and toxins your putrifiers and blightspawn have cooked up in months of work is quite troublesome if a horde of plague daemons is chaotically infecting people with whatever their instincts them.

I have to disagree it's somehow not fluffy to use nurgle demons in battle plans of death guard. The last book had in them even stories or tactics in which they used them to augment their forces with battle plans.

I mean Death guard should be able to run on their own good enough but I think it's well within the fluff for them to use some demon help, wether the demons want to or not, or even know they are doing so.

Maybe for game balance put some limitations on it but the demons would be fodder for the more focused marines and I don't think that would get in the way of their plans much at all.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Nah the Death Guard codex shouldn't contain or cater to daemons at all - Nurgle Daemons stopping contagions from spreading is fluffy.

Err wait a minute, that doesn't sound right.

DG only being able to operate a full efficiency when they bring daemons or other legions along is even less fluffy. This kind of rule is meant to reward playing mono-codex DG, something that was nothing but a handicap up until now.

If you want a fluff justification - I imagine controlled spreading of the newest plagues and toxins your putrifiers and blightspawn have cooked up in months of work is quite troublesome if a horde of plague daemons is chaotically infecting people with whatever their instincts them.

If Contagions were tied to the <Nurgle> keyword, then DG would still be able to make use of them while taking 0 daemons.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Nah the Death Guard codex shouldn't contain or cater to daemons at all - Nurgle Daemons stopping contagions from spreading is fluffy.

Err wait a minute, that doesn't sound right.

DG only being able to operate a full efficiency when they bring daemons or other legions along is even less fluffy. This kind of rule is meant to reward playing mono-codex DG, something that was nothing but a handicap up until now.

If you want a fluff justification - I imagine controlled spreading of the newest plagues and toxins your putrifiers and blightspawn have cooked up in months of work is quite troublesome if a horde of plague daemons is chaotically infecting people with whatever their instincts them.

If Contagions were tied to the <Nurgle> keyword, then DG would still be able to make use of them while taking 0 daemons.

If contagions were tied to the Nurgle keyword, there would be zero reason to play pure Death Guard.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Nah the Death Guard codex shouldn't contain or cater to daemons at all - Nurgle Daemons stopping contagions from spreading is fluffy.

Err wait a minute, that doesn't sound right.

DG only being able to operate a full efficiency when they bring daemons or other legions along is even less fluffy. This kind of rule is meant to reward playing mono-codex DG, something that was nothing but a handicap up until now.

If you want a fluff justification - I imagine controlled spreading of the newest plagues and toxins your putrifiers and blightspawn have cooked up in months of work is quite troublesome if a horde of plague daemons is chaotically infecting people with whatever their instincts them.

If Contagions were tied to the <Nurgle> keyword, then DG would still be able to make use of them while taking 0 daemons.

If contagions were tied to the Nurgle keyword, there would be zero reason to play pure Death Guard.

What some of us were suggesting was that Nurgle daemons be included in the Death Guard codex, so that players who wanted to bring Nurgle daemons with their Death Guard wouldn't need a second codex and they wouldn't break Contagions. One codex for both, no additional book, like how it's handled in AoS, and how CSM (including Death Guard) worked before the 4th edition codex.

I understand that this is what you are suggesting.

What I am saying is that that there needs to be an advantage to just play the Death Guard legion without any daemon involvement.
Death Guard and chaos daemons of Nurgle are already two armies which synergize extremely well, from the utility that nurglings provide, plague bringers just being better pox walkers, character auras affecting daemon engines, psychic powers being able to heal them, GUO reviving MBH up to Epidemius super-charging an entire army.

And now, when for the first time just running plague marines, pox walkers and DG characters gets a small boon, suddenly all the nurgle soup faction players want that too and are complaining about how their army has been ruined and that the fluff is lying in shreds - despite not losing a single thing compared to what they could do before.

 Jidmah wrote:
I understand that this is what you are suggesting.

What I am saying is that that there needs to be an advantage to just play the Death Guard legion without any daemon involvement.
Death Guard and chaos daemons of Nurgle are already two armies which synergize extremely well, from the utility that nurglings provide, plague bringers just being better pox walkers, character auras affecting daemon engines, psychic powers being able to heal them, GUO reviving MBH up to Epidemius super-charging an entire army.

And now, when for the first time just running plague marines, pox walkers and DG characters gets a small boon, suddenly all the nurgle soup faction players want that too and are complaining about how their army has been ruined and that the fluff is lying in shreds - despite not losing a single thing compared to what they could do before.

Ok, I understand, and agree, there should be an advantage to playing pure Death Guard with no daemons. I'm coming from the other side: I want there to not be a disadvantage to playing Night Lords without marks and daemonic/mutated vehicles. I get it.

Having daemons and mortals combined would be nice. It would mean Chaos would end up being:

Maggotkin of Mortarion
Hedonites of Fulgrim
Disciples of Magnus
Blades of Angron

Then you would have a Slaves to Darkness-esque book called Chaos Space Marines.