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 BleachHawk wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
I really hate losing FNP!
It sucks ass for everone not playing against marines. But it seems like everyone is, so I guess I just have a sucky meta now.

Same here. I try not to get my hopes up that the Surgeon will actually provide something against D1 weapons.

Yeah! Or mortal wounds, damn it! Plus, it feels a bit like we've lost some of the things that made DG feel unique. PLus, we lost a lot of resilliance. I don't care that they are more resilient against 2D weapons. I don't face any anyway. I'd rather have a 5+ save against EVERYTHING than an extra wound.

Very underwhelming aura, hope there is more to him than that. Even if our bolters were made plague weapons for free only 2 or so shots from a 10-man squad would actually get the -1ap on average.
The stratagem might have uses but I'm doubtfull, on the plus side it hits even characters on a 3+ which is rare for this kind of stuff I think, but every other unit in the game doesn't really care for D3 mortals were I play.

It hits infantry characters on a 2+ (The plus and minus cancel each other out)
Does mean you can never get D6 wounds on a character though.
I doubt I will ever use this, BUT if an opponent has some characters and squads bunched up in a forest then you could use it to break up a castle. Stop their rerolls etc, or they have to take the MWs.
If placed right they will have to scatter in different directions as they will be -2 movement. Perfect storm of Morty being close by and they can't even get away if they want lol

 techsoldaten wrote:
The acronym LOV will take some getting used to. Every time I read it, my brain parses 'Line of Sight.'

The LOV seems like infantry support, he's the guy who deep strikes near a couple cc squads of Plague Marines who are ready to clear some space on the table.

Don't know if I will buy another $30 character model, will probably convert one from parts. But I think he has a use in most armies.

You'd have a point if he buffed ALL Plague Weapons instead of just ranged ones, so as it stands he only helps the Blight Launchers and the lone guy throwing a blight grenade. That's not really a sound investment. Only real use I can conjur up is three drones with the heavy Blight Launchers but that's still just two shots getting the extra AP. I really don't get it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also really sucks that I can use my Huron stand-in to pretty much represent him (and was potentially looking forward to that) and instead, for what's been revealed, he's just NOT good.

 Castozor wrote:
Very underwhelming aura, hope there is more to him than that. Even if our bolters were made plague weapons for free only 2 or so shots from a 10-man squad would actually get the -1ap on average.
The stratagem might have uses but I'm doubtfull, on the plus side it hits even characters on a 3+ which is rare for this kind of stuff I think, but every other unit in the game doesn't really care for D3 mortals were I play.

He almost has to do something else. CORE and ranged plague weapons is basically just grenades, blight launchers, and the various flamer-equivalents which is pretty naff, and then a 6" bubble limits even more. 1 in 6 of every d6 plague weapon attacks, which is maybe 2 models per unit (3 if you're also in grenade tossing range)... hurrah for DiceHammer.

 BleachHawk wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
I really hate losing FNP!
It sucks ass for everone not playing against marines. But it seems like everyone is, so I guess I just have a sucky meta now.

Same here. I try not to get my hopes up that the Surgeon will actually provide something against D1 weapons.

At first I was disappointed in losing it as well, but the more I thought about it the more it makes sense. With DG's high toughness and good saves, they will already be a lot harder to wound with most 1 damage weapons. Then once you consider things like the extra wounds and contagions of nurgle, losing the FNP starts to feel a little more fair. Our Terminators essentially have 6 wounds against any weapons that aren't D1, which feels pretty strong to me honestly. Some rebalancing seems important for DG, I haven't lost a single game since war of the spider dropped and they were starting to feel a little OP at times.

RobouteNurgleman wrote:

 BleachHawk wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
I really hate losing FNP!
It sucks ass for everone not playing against marines. But it seems like everyone is, so I guess I just have a sucky meta now.

Same here. I try not to get my hopes up that the Surgeon will actually provide something against D1 weapons.

At first I was disappointed in losing it as well, but the more I thought about it the more it makes sense. With DG's high toughness and good saves, they will already be a lot harder to wound with most 1 damage weapons. Then once you consider things like the extra wounds and contagions of nurgle, losing the FNP starts to feel a little more fair. Our Terminators essentially have 6 wounds against any weapons that aren't D1, which feels pretty strong to me honestly. Some rebalancing seems important for DG, I haven't lost a single game since war of the spider dropped and they were starting to feel a little OP at times.

Except Lasguns. Those hit ordinary Marines just as hard as Plague Marines.

 JNAProductions wrote:

RobouteNurgleman wrote:

 BleachHawk wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
I really hate losing FNP!
It sucks ass for everone not playing against marines. But it seems like everyone is, so I guess I just have a sucky meta now.

Same here. I try not to get my hopes up that the Surgeon will actually provide something against D1 weapons.

At first I was disappointed in losing it as well, but the more I thought about it the more it makes sense. With DG's high toughness and good saves, they will already be a lot harder to wound with most 1 damage weapons. Then once you consider things like the extra wounds and contagions of nurgle, losing the FNP starts to feel a little more fair. Our Terminators essentially have 6 wounds against any weapons that aren't D1, which feels pretty strong to me honestly. Some rebalancing seems important for DG, I haven't lost a single game since war of the spider dropped and they were starting to feel a little OP at times.

Except Lasguns. Those hit ordinary Marines just as hard as Plague Marines.

That's more the fault of the wounding table than anything.

The lord of virulence so far isn't too impressive. The aura buff plague weapon ap is nice. Since he's in terminator armor it may be worth deep striking him in with Blightlords to charge out of deepstrike or have him pop up next to a unit of Bloat drones. Though I will say between the Blight Bombardment strategem and the Harbinger's Relic and Shamble Rot warlord trait, I'm starting to see a theme of area denial bigger than just the -1 toughness. Well, maybe not complete area denial, but definitely making your opponents weigh their option instead of charging headlong to the point. Both the Bombardment and relic are once per game, but could be enough to stop a decent amount of primary scoring depending on the mission.

Not sure how either the relic and especially the bombardment will stop one from scoring primary. Scoring primaries is well worth d3 mortals on anyone unit, but yes it might make the enemy pay ffor doing so. Depends on what you face I suppose, I face CSM, Nid, Orks and SM with lots of infantry and none of those are too worried about a few mortal wounds on their units.

Tycho wrote:

My point is just yes, have different fluff reasons for the things. However when they do the same thing, just say it and have all the fluff you want for why it happens that way. Like when i started things that came down anywhere on the board and scattered was just deep strike, didn't matter why they did it, came from underground, teleported, fell from the sky, fell off an apple cart, etc. It was just deep strike and if I said " Hey these units are deep striking later " They all instantly knew what was happening with them, how they did it didn't matter outside of a fluff talk of why they could do that.

Surprised no one has pointed this out yet, but there's a very good reason they have different names now. It has almost nothing at all to do w/the fluff. In past editions, you would get a USR shared by, say 9 units. Then, at some point we would all realize that said rule made "unit X" OP. So GW would nerf the USR. But the nerf hit all 9 units. So now you have the OP unit properly toned down, 6 units that are now not as good as they were (for no good reason), and 2 units that were unintentionally made unplayable because of how bad the change made them. The idea with the new system was that GW could alter the specific "version" of the rule that was causing problems, without touching any other units. Brilliant on paper, but I don't think they actually ever made use of it in that manner in any meaningful way since they implemented it.

On the face of it, very underwhelming LoV article. Will still be picking one up but was really hoping he'd be for supporting my backfield PBC... which is looking unlikely now.

Wasn't a fan of the look of the model from the start, but on top of that, he doesn't seem all that great? I realize there's probably a lot more to him than the article suggests, but he's kind of underwhelming considering it's only the second DG codex ever, and the first in what? 4 years I think? Meh ....

That is true, but they have not really done that with any of these rules that are just like deep strike they all work exactly the same. So all they are currently adding is confusion and aren't doing anything to help keep balance. Especially not when everything can pretty much outflank these days, as well deep strike didn't make any unit op that I can remember, and we went through lots of good and bad. So yeah, I can see how the varying names lets you tweak the rules but they seemingly don't tweak the rules and rarely even tweak the points on units that have been poo for decades. Basic bit is USRs would be better than as this over the top bespoke jargon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The acronym LOV will take some getting used to. Every time I read it, my brain parses 'Line of Sight.'

Think of him as a Rickroll. 'What is LoV? Baby don't hurt me..'

Damn you for making me laugh to this LOL.


Edit: Yeah the LoV is a good wait for later buy for me now. I still have hope it will be a good book over all but the LoV stuff is poor showing. Makes me wonder how they can make the game and make such a useless guy for it as our only new model. I'm more excited about possessed at this point, tell me how crazy is that ?

 Castozor wrote:
Not sure how either the relic and especially the bombardment will stop one from scoring primary. Scoring primaries is well worth d3 mortals on anyone unit, but yes it might make the enemy pay ffor doing so. Depends on what you face I suppose, I face CSM, Nid, Orks and SM with lots of infantry and none of those are too worried about a few mortal wounds on their units.

You have Blight Bombardment, the relic, and applied pressure from Plagueburst Crawler blasts and fast moving units like Bloat Drones or Blight Haulers. The unit on the point must also survive until the next command phase to score, giving you the round to shoot/assault. I also notice a shift back to MSU for some so d3 mortals could hurt, if its a MSU of marines its possible to do d6 mortlal wounds with Bombardment. The once per game mortal wounds from both might not be a complete area denial or even enough to wipe a unit, but all things considered makes taking/keeping a point pretty rough. I'm also not saying this is the best strategy so far, but I think the 'area denial with tough units' theme is what we should be playing towards.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The acronym LOV will take some getting used to. Every time I read it, my brain parses 'Line of Sight.'

The LOV seems like infantry support, he's the guy who deep strikes near a couple cc squads of Plague Marines who are ready to clear some space on the table.

Don't know if I will buy another $30 character model, will probably convert one from parts. But I think he has a use in most armies.

You'd have a point if he buffed ALL Plague Weapons instead of just ranged ones, so as it stands he only helps the Blight Launchers and the lone guy throwing a blight grenade. That's not really a sound investment. Only real use I can conjur up is three drones with the heavy Blight Launchers but that's still just two shots getting the extra AP. I really don't get it.

D'oh! Thought it was all Plague Weapons.

Buffing a Plague Marine with a Flail would be something else.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The acronym LOV will take some getting used to. Every time I read it, my brain parses 'Line of Sight.'

The LOV seems like infantry support, he's the guy who deep strikes near a couple cc squads of Plague Marines who are ready to clear some space on the table.

Don't know if I will buy another $30 character model, will probably convert one from parts. But I think he has a use in most armies.

You'd have a point if he buffed ALL Plague Weapons instead of just ranged ones, so as it stands he only helps the Blight Launchers and the lone guy throwing a blight grenade. That's not really a sound investment. Only real use I can conjur up is three drones with the heavy Blight Launchers but that's still just two shots getting the extra AP. I really don't get it.

D'oh! Thought it was all Plague Weapons.

Buffing a Plague Marine with a Flail would be something else.

Eh... Even if he did buff all Plague Weapons, you need 40 attacks (hitting on a 3+ and wounding on a 3+, rerolling 1s for the wounds) to net a single extra failed save on average. At least against MEQ. I didn't run the math on GEQ or others.

We are looking at this all wrong, he's just supposed to walk around looking to get into the Roxbury for an amazing night at the club. To do that, he doesn't need good skills. What is LoV ? Baby don't hurt me, no more.

 Castozor wrote:
Not sure how either the relic and especially the bombardment will stop one from scoring primary. Scoring primaries is well worth d3 mortals on anyone unit, but yes it might make the enemy pay ffor doing so. Depends on what you face I suppose, I face CSM, Nid, Orks and SM with lots of infantry and none of those are too worried about a few mortal wounds on their units.

Agreed. I think it would have been much better as 1/2 CP than as 2/3.

So, someone help me here. Blight bombardment is once per game? or once per phase? or once per turn. Because it says you can only use this strategem once ... without any further clarification. If its once per game, its super limited.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So, someone help me here. Blight bombardment is once per game? or once per phase? or once per turn. Because it says you can only use this strategem once ... without any further clarification. If its once per game, its super limited.

It says only use once, so once per game. Though really I'm not sure why you'd want to use it more than that anyway, it's a CP waste unless the rest of our stratagems are trash tier.
Edit: I don't want do double post so fast, so forgive me for quoting a post below me:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

It's still an increased damage output overall compared to...well, this.

Technically this is still a damage increase albeit an incredibly trash one pending unseen rules/buffs. Please GW give me another rule for this supposed "Daemon engine buffer".

 JNAProductions wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The acronym LOV will take some getting used to. Every time I read it, my brain parses 'Line of Sight.'

The LOV seems like infantry support, he's the guy who deep strikes near a couple cc squads of Plague Marines who are ready to clear some space on the table.

Don't know if I will buy another $30 character model, will probably convert one from parts. But I think he has a use in most armies.

You'd have a point if he buffed ALL Plague Weapons instead of just ranged ones, so as it stands he only helps the Blight Launchers and the lone guy throwing a blight grenade. That's not really a sound investment. Only real use I can conjur up is three drones with the heavy Blight Launchers but that's still just two shots getting the extra AP. I really don't get it.

D'oh! Thought it was all Plague Weapons.

Buffing a Plague Marine with a Flail would be something else.

Eh... Even if he did buff all Plague Weapons, you need 40 attacks (hitting on a 3+ and wounding on a 3+, rerolling 1s for the wounds) to net a single extra failed save on average. At least against MEQ. I didn't run the math on GEQ or others.

It's still an increased damage output overall compared to...well, this.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So, someone help me here. Blight bombardment is once per game? or once per phase? or once per turn. Because it says you can only use this strategem once ... without any further clarification. If its once per game, its super limited.

By RAW you can only ever use the strat once. Once you've used it you can never use it again for the rest of your life.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So, someone help me here. Blight bombardment is once per game? or once per phase? or once per turn. Because it says you can only use this strategem once ... without any further clarification. If its once per game, its super limited.

By RAW you can only ever use the strat once. Once you've used it you can never use it again for the rest of your life.

So what you are saying is if I use it once I don't ever have to again for the rest of my life ? Sounds like I have to use it straight away in my first game with it, just get it out of my face forever then.

So after years of only playing Eldar, I'm going to start death guard.
Is the start playing box worth the money according to the veterans (of the long war) here?

I really don't understand the hate for blight bombardment. It's D3/D6 mortal wounds on all units in a 12" radius. That's a massive area, you could get 4 or 5 units in there.
But it's not really about the damage, it's disrupting your opponent, forcing some units to advance so they can't shoot etc

Abaddon303 wrote:
I really don't understand the hate for blight bombardment. It's D3/D6 mortal wounds on all units in a 12" radius. That's a massive area, you could get 4 or 5 units in there.
But it's not really about the damage, it's disrupting your opponent, forcing some units to advance so they can't shoot etc

Well, it's basically the Orbital Bombardment strategem from the Space Marine codex. How many times have you seen it played against you in four years since the first 8th ed codex?


That's why people are indifferent.

eldarian wrote:
So after years of only playing Eldar, I'm going to start death guard.
Is the start playing box worth the money according to the veterans (of the long war) here?

Not really. If you can find a Dark Imperium box or two sitting on shelves somewhere, you'll get much more value for your money.

 TonyH122 wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:
I really don't understand the hate for blight bombardment. It's D3/D6 mortal wounds on all units in a 12" radius. That's a massive area, you could get 4 or 5 units in there.
But it's not really about the damage, it's disrupting your opponent, forcing some units to advance so they can't shoot etc

Well, it's basically the Orbital Bombardment strategem from the Space Marine codex. How many times have you seen it played against you in four years since the first 8th ed codex?


That's why people are indifferent.

I've used it in conjunction with Huron's personal bombardment and the command Rhino from FW. It's not good overall but it's fun.

 TonyH122 wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:
I really don't understand the hate for blight bombardment. It's D3/D6 mortal wounds on all units in a 12" radius. That's a massive area, you could get 4 or 5 units in there.
But it's not really about the damage, it's disrupting your opponent, forcing some units to advance so they can't shoot etc

Well, it's basically the Orbital Bombardment strategem from the Space Marine codex. How many times have you seen it played against you in four years since the first 8th ed codex?


That's why people are indifferent.

The Orbital Bombardment stratagem from the Space Marine codex was updated for 9th. It used to be instantaneous, had a radius of D6" and only caused damage on a 4+ or 5+ if it was a character. I would absolutely agree that was trash and was never used. Too expensive for too little certainty or payoff.

Now it is a guaranteed full 6" radius and guaranteed hits on non character infantry and anything else on a 2+. Plus it's a 1/6 chance of D6 MWs.

That's a pretty massive increase in consistency and damage caused.

But like I said, it's not just about the damage its the disruption.

LOV might be good in combination with Deathshrouds. Their flamer gauntlets likely got a buff based on the point increase and are plague weapons.

LOV buffs them, and just happens to carry flamer weapons himself. Also, he wears ancient terminator armor. So, he can deep strike in together with the deathshrouds.

Another possible combination would be with Bloat drones. He makes those plague splitters better, and bloat drones are units that want to be up close anyway, so it works out. Maybe deep strike him in on second turn in the middle of a trio of bloat drones and then they all flame stuff. (sorry, this only works if Bloat drones are core)

He also can advance up behind Plague Burst Crawler/s with plague splitters that are moving up to midboard. Then he will give the long range mortars as well as those plague splitters +1 AP, and he himself will serve as a combat deterrant to people who want to get close and tag a PBC. (sorry, this only works if PBC are core). lol

The strategems relentless volley (make combi bolters rapid fire 3) and virulent rounds that turns bolters into plague weapons are probably in this new codex. So, the LOV can deep strike or just move up the board together with 10 combi bolter blightlords and they can now rapid fire 60 shots which are plague weapons and -1AP to boot.

Well, deathshrouds and blightlords at least should be core,,., right? lol

So basically you have to spend even more resources to try to make use of the single model, and quite frankly at that point it's overkill.

Even the article itself billed the LOV as a "support focused HQ". So he has to be used in combination with other units. The deathshroud combination doesn't require any additional CP.

The blightlord one though... yeah, that one needs at least virulent rounds...