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No Bruce Campbell, 0 out of 10.

Also, completely wasted a perfect opportunity to have a Mile Morales appear. Instead it's

"Once again we have a Avengers level threat, and no Avengers. We'll just let the 17 year old kid handle it."

Miles should not appear for a long time. I don't want to see a MCU miles for at least another 6-10 years. Let Peter get older and wiser so that a young Miles can have him as a mentor or take over.

bbb wrote:So, I thought they did a good job with it, but I'm really confused about the direction they're going. Homecoming and Far From Home were all about Peter becoming the next Iron Man, but now that's completely out the window. I get that now Spider-Man is down to his more traditional character of doing his best even though he doesn't have much going for him, but if feels like a complete 180 for the direction of the character. Maybe they have a long term plan to get back to him taking over for Iron Man after he matures and gets more experienc

I tend to agree with Lance and Doc on this. Spiderman's story usually has him as something of a loner. He'll help out the big teams, but he's not really part of any of them. Its just that the film versions tend to get recycled before they move past the insecure young hero phase.

And Iron Man has several heirs-in-waiting, though we're still waiting to be introduced to the most likely one. But it wasn't ever going to be Spidey.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
No Bruce Campbell, 0 out of 10.

Also, completely wasted a perfect opportunity to have a Mile Morales appear. Instead it's

"Once again we have a Avengers level threat, and no Avengers. We'll just let the 17 year old kid handle it."

I take it you walked out of the theatre before Dr. Strange returned from the mirror realm, dealt with the cosmic rifts, & cast the memory wipe spell?
Avenger, dealing with it....

Or are you just referring to Spidy(s) punching/curing the villains? Spidy villains =/= Avengers lv threats. Not even on their best day.

Well, to be completely fair. Dr. Strange ISN'T an Avenger. He doesn't work for Stark and never did. He protects more then the Avengers ever did in the MCU. Really, this wasn't an Avengers level threat. This was a Strange level threat. That Spiderman basically caused and Strange made Spiderman clean up until he fethed around and made a bigger mess.

The Avengers don't really exist at the moment, in practical terms. Some are dead, one is retired, and the few still kickin' around are doing their own things. I imagine when they get around to another Avengers film it will be about reassembling with the new/remaining members.

Exactly, who are the current avengers? Thor, Cap Marvel, the Guardians, Ant Man and Wanda are all on their own following their own sub plots. The Wakandians couldn't care less.

There were basically just Hulk, Falcon and the Winter Soldier available, other than Dr Strange, and who knows what Banner is doing these days .

Yeah, Thor, Capt. Marvel, and the Guardians are all off in space aren't they?

 Easy E wrote:
Yeah, Thor, Capt. Marvel, and the Guardians are all off in space aren't they?

Yup. Wanda is literally off in the middle of nowhere in a cabin in the woods, so I don't think Peter would have been able to find or reach her even if he tried. Tony's dead, Nat is dead, and Steve's retired. Jolena is off hunting down Barton, who is also (mostly) retired. Bruce doesn't look like he's in any shape to fight when we last saw him in Shang Chi, as he's no longer smart Hulk and was wearing a cast nursing that messed up gauntlet arm he deep fried in Endgame.

That does still leave quite a few heroes out though. Scott, Hope, Bucky, and Sam would presumably all be available?

How is messing around with the fabric of space/time NOT an avengers level threat? Last time they did this, it was Avengers Endgame.

I'm not saying I didn't enjoy watching three spidermen be all happy together, but can we at least admit perspective here?

This wasn't a good script, this was Marvel jacking it into a script writing computer and slapping the Spiderman name on it. It had so much it was trying to do, that it really failed to accomplish any of it. Was anyone really surprised that Gwen/MJ was saved? Or that Old Tobey getting stabbed was not the end of him? No. Because there was never really any feeling of tension in this film. Half way through the first act, Tobey has either beat up or rounded up 75% of the Sinister 6, and the others he has "Cured" of evil, or somehow been fooled by. Aunt Hottie deserved to die in this movie, so we never have to see the pathetic attempt at relationship building for her again with Happy. Also, why is Happy still here? No one has told him, he's basically Krillin from DBZ here. Basically useless and just wasting screen time.

Getting back to the point, this movie just wanted to sell tickets to hungry fans of the first 3 franchises, as a buddy action comedy, and it doesn't even have any comedy, and they only really become "buddies" in the last 10 minutes. The best attempt at jokes are ejaculation jokes about where Tobey's web fluid comes from(no pun intended). Other than that it's Waaah people are dead and lets all say that special line together, "With great responsability, comes great PROFITS! We made 1.5 Billion off this!"

I'm sorry, but I didn't enjoy this film afterwards, and I feel like Marvel has given up even trying now. Everything is so poorly written it's just painful.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How is messing around with the fabric of space/time NOT an avengers level threat? Last time they did this, it was Avengers Endgame.

Because movie Avenegers have never faced someone messing with space time or alternate realities. An Avengers level threat is cleaning up Hydra post Winter Soldier and the fall of shield. Ultron. The Chitari invasion. And Thanos, which they lost. Tears in reality and people from other dimensions bleeding through would put them all right out of their depth.

I'm not saying I didn't enjoy watching three spidermen be all happy together, but can we at least admit perspective here?

This wasn't a good script, this was Marvel jacking it into a script writing computer and slapping the Spiderman name on it. It had so much it was trying to do, that it really failed to accomplish any of it. Was anyone really surprised that Gwen/MJ was saved? Or that Old Tobey getting stabbed was not the end of him? No. Because there was never really any feeling of tension in this film. Half way through the first act, Tobey has either beat up or rounded up 75% of the Sinister 6, and the others he has "Cured" of evil, or somehow been fooled by. Aunt Hottie deserved to die in this movie, so we never have to see the pathetic attempt at relationship building for her again with Happy. Also, why is Happy still here? No one has told him, he's basically Krillin from DBZ here. Basically useless and just wasting screen time.

Getting back to the point, this movie just wanted to sell tickets to hungry fans of the first 3 franchises, as a buddy action comedy, and it doesn't even have any comedy, and they only really become "buddies" in the last 10 minutes. The best attempt at jokes are ejaculation jokes about where Tobey's web fluid comes from(no pun intended). Other than that it's Waaah people are dead and lets all say that special line together, "With great responsability, comes great PROFITS! We made 1.5 Billion off this!"

I'm sorry, but I didn't enjoy this film afterwards, and I feel like Marvel has given up even trying now. Everything is so poorly written it's just painful.

I respect your opinion here. I disagree with all of it. It was a funny movie when it was light. It had great acting all around. The story highlighted Peters unwillingness to kill or let people be killed which so far only the Tom Hollad Spiderman has done.

You don't need to question whether MJ is going to get caught in the same way you don't need to question that Gwen Stacy won't. Anyone who thinks about it for even a second is well aware of what is going to go down.

I don't want to be nitpicky. But the first Avengers movie, they faced Loki who literally had the Space Stone.

That is the thing a bout The Avengers, they are always out of their depth. But they bring it together and work something out.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How is messing around with the fabric of space/time NOT an avengers level threat? Last time they did this, it was Avengers Endgame.

How would they have known? When it really started happening was at the end of the film and the only people that knew were there at that time. The randomly sprinkled around the universe Avengers don't have super wristwatches that tell them their has been a subtle shift in reality and that maybe something soon is going to escalate the problem. The one person, Stephen (that still sounds weird), who would know was there and dealing with it.

Plus that is almost always a general problem when you have shared universes with multiple characters. Since the first Avengers film almost every film after that in the MCU that was a solo film I've seen someone say "Why wasn't X Avengers there?" or some variation.

Finally got to see it this weekend and really really liked it. I am a little disappointed in the rebooted nature of the ending. Tom could literally just morph into Tobey at this point and be good to go, but such is the One More Day nature of the story. I do kind of hate that he doesn't respect any of his friends wishes in the name of protecting them in the end, simply because that failing was a huge part of what started this in the first place. Like even with Strange, he has every ability to tell him that he cast this spell and Stephen would at this point have to be "uh... yeah, that sounds like a thing I'd do".

On that note, I do have to give the film a lot of credit for telling far more of a story than the vast majority of MCU films. I really don't get why people are so dismissive of the plots of these things. Like, they're not mysteries or mechanically complicated, but that's not really the point. They're character driven stories and while I think a lot of them have pretty ho-hum central drives, this one pulls off the themes of balancing power and responsibility better than anything since Doc Ock recognized the danger of his hubris in Spidey2. The character is really forced to grow up in a way that we rarely see play out to the point where even my criticism above kind of misses the point that by the end Peter chooses to lay in the bed he made rather than take easy outs available.

To a degree though, that might be the one place where I feel a thematic throughline was missed. Pretty early on its established that a lot of this mess was caused by Peter failing to trust his friends to be willing to make sacrifices for him and failing to let them make their own decisions. There's a decent chance that there's some sequel bait in that, but the final choice really is no better than the mistake that started it all and.... on a purely personal note, I HATE the trend of superheroes not willing to have a support network. It's like the one real kryptonite for Batman and most other characters should do better.

Anyway, good film, probably one of the best in the MCU. Not sure if I'm going to like the sequels, but as a mini Endgame for the Spiderman franchise; it was really good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gorgon wrote:

And WTF is up with teasing Tom Hardy's Venom meeting up with Spidey...but apparently saying 'nope, we're not doing that'? Are they just hedging their bets?

A chunk of the Symbiote gets left in the MCU where in all likelihood, it'll be picked up on spring break by Flash Thompson so he can be Agent Venom.

I doubt they go the Agent Venom route. This Flash just ain’t got that in him I don’t think.

He will after a couple tours with the US military and the loss of his legs.

But no. I think they will do a black suit/eddie MCU Eddie Brock. Agent Venom is way down the line.

Truthfully they've just kind of left a blank slate to do whatever they want. I don't think or at least hope they don't do Tom in the black suit. This movie covered that arc pretty well (with Tobey stepping in to make up for his failure in a more convoluted nod than Garfield's second chance). This is effectively a full reboot, with cast shipped off to Boston and Peter left starting from scratch.

The main question is whether they'll make that the point. Agent Venom is one way as is the heavy baiting of Ned becoming the Hobgoblin. They even reference MJ's father not liking Spidey, which could be turned into a Beetle/Tombstone kind of deal. Of course, they can just forget those characters entirely as they've been effectively written out.

I think it depends on how much Sony takes the reigns going forward. They largely exorcised all the MCU elements so that seems very possible. That's not got me very hopeful, but remains to be seen.

They’ve also not entirely removed Ned and MJ from the future. They’re still there, they just don’t remember Peter. That’s not the same as killing them off. With Ned’s magical potential, they could enter that as a chink in the spell, allowing Ned to eventually recall Peter and their adventures.

We know there’s a new trilogy on the way. So whilst we may not see much if any of MJ and/or Ned in that one? Audience reaction could easily see them brought back in.

Next entry of course is Morbius. A movie I’m truly loathe to go and see because of the creep in the lead role. However, it seems we can expect to see Michael Keaton back as Toomes/Vulture, so again it’s going to be tied into the MCU to some degree.

Oh, and I feel like everyone forgets about the two teacher’s Spidey Shrine. Right there. In the middle of the high school. The one that confirms Peter is Spidey. And that Peter was a student at that school. Where they’ll have records. About Peter. And his Aunt. Even his former address. If memory serves, the spell only made everyone forget who Peter was. Which lets face it, is not the same as erasing all evidence he existed…. That’s a big old plot hook if ever I saw one, perhaps even a Tysonesque right hook. A Chekhov’s mobile field artillery, if you will.

The rules of the spell are VERY loose. I mean, even the rules of Venom showing up are pretty iffy to begin with (he knows Peter is Spiderman?). Peter getting his GED implies that he no longer exists in his school records even (Strange implies something similar) but there's a lot of big questions regarding paperwork that we probably shouldn't think TOO hard about.

I do feel like they want to do one blank slate film before bringing back the old cast. Honestly, I hope they don't even really touch on the symbiote for a while and just take this opportunity to avoid explaining it later. Maybe it will show up in the end credits for like 2 movies creeping closer, but I don't think Sony has the patience for something like that.

On the subject of Morbius, the strangest thing about that trailer is this weird feeling that there's no actual story. Like, guy gets super COVID and.... like he doesn't seem to be particularly conflicted by his condition or anything and there doesn't seem to be an antagonist of any sort so its like.... dude becomes Bat Man and....

Morbius looks more like..... "Hey look, we have MCU adjacent supers too!"

That movie is going to be so strange and messed up. Probably not even in a good way.

Morbius is going to be his own antagonist.

Morbius is the single biggest neon sign that sony is desperate for MCU validation to date. It REEKS of desperation. It's 1 or 2 steps of desperation away from doing an about face and declaring itself an incel.

Morbius cast one of the world’s worse yet more overrated actors in the lead.

I don’t necessarily want it to suck. But I fear it’s inevitable.

I assume it on some level is looking to replicate Joker which should be hilarious for all the wrong reasons.

 LunarSol wrote:
I assume it on some level is looking to replicate Joker which should be hilarious for all the wrong reasons.

LOL, wut. If they're trying to replicate Joker using Jared Leto, arguably the worst Joker seen on screen so far, they've got a big surprise stinky box office bomb on their hands.

Ok, I’d completely missed the Morbius trailer; doesn’t look great, but neither did Venom and I actually quite enjoyed that when I finally got round to it. Guessing that they’re going to try and make an MCU Dexter “I’m a monster who hunts monsters” character.

Back on the Spider-Man thread, Sony will be making a grave mistake if they don’t include MJ and Ned in future films; the three of them together is the heart of the films and the chemistry between the actors, particularly in this one, is amazing. I just can’t see it working without them. Have to say, I figured that the memory wipe is something that would start to get walked back after Multiverse of Madness, but we’ll have to see.

Watched the Morbius trailer.

Looks like a reskinned Venom template. But without a charismatic lead.

I think the spell utilizes a lot of handwavium to get the result of everyone forgetting Peter even though everyone knows Spider-Man exists.

My biggest hope for MJ and Ned coming back is that MJ was wearing the necklace at the end. The broken black dahlia still means something to her, but she probably doesn't know why.

Oh, nice catch. I love the tiny details like that that fill the MCU.

Plot Twist: Morbius is just a vehicle to introduce Blade, who shows up and kills him at the end of the movie.