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H.B.M.C. wrote: Do you have trouble adding up numbers?
A calculator beyond the scope of your abilities?
Pen and paper just too "out there"?
Does Microsoft Excel scare you?
Then pay monthly for an army builder that you can use on a tiny mobile phone touch screen.
Bargain!
Your "argument" falls apart the moment you remember stuff like battlescribe exists . Thus revealing your sole purpose in thread is to troll
The existence and popularity of Piratescribe would appear to prove two things - firstly, that a lot of people appear to fall into groups along the lines HBMC suggested. Secondly, a lot of people appear to feel entitled to get access to rules content for free, rather than paying the content creator.
Well when the codices are actually worth the $50+ they want to charge let us know.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Battlescribe is nice for poking around on building lists before you commit to a new army and buy all the stuff for it, too. I'd expect it earns GW far more sales than it loses them. As would a good, free official app.
I was holding out hope for this app. I thought the army builder might save it. Now that I've seen the (admittedly beta version) list builder, I can conclusively say I for one will stick with BattleScribe. Or, if that was not an option, Excel. Or pen and paper. Anything other than this app. Even if it were free.
This is less a player resource than a DRM tool for GW. You cant put a unit in list if you haven't unlocked it first by entering the code from the book into the app. Which makes sense if your biggest priority is making sure only people who have paid for your books can read the rules.
However, one of the biggest benefits to battlescribe is I can send my opponant my roster file and he can see what my units do, even if he doesnt own my codex.
Without that functionality, this list builder is practically useless.
This is less a player resource than a DRM tool for GW. You cant put a unit in list if you haven't unlocked it first by entering the code from the book into the app. Which makes sense if your biggest priority is making sure only people who have paid for your books can read the rules.
Billicus wrote: I'm not seeing any reason to use this over Battlescribe and at least one good reason not to
Not having to constantly go back and forth between the unit entry and full list to see what each relic or Warlord trait does is more than enough to put it over Battlescribe for me. All the other ease of use features are icing on the cake past that.
Uh, what? Battlescribe has an army view that puts all the rules for the selected force in a single scrollable list, Battle Forge requires you to drill into each unit entry to see what it does while the relics/psychic powers/etc are not with the unit data card. My captain's stats and his base equipment stats, what equipment, relic and warlord traits I gave him, what that warlord trait does, and what that relic does are all in different places.
That's actually the make-or-break feature for me, if the final version doesn't have an army summary view then it's garbage.
On the other hand, Battlescribe chugs like a cottage cheese margarita when I open a list and it crashes altogether loading after an update, Battle Forge beats it like a rented mule on that front.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/09 16:54:54
GaroRobe wrote: I like that they show off the "Ancient in Terminator armor" which was the Japenese exclusive terminator from the Space Marine Heroes paint set
It was available as a blind box in the RoW Series 2 boxes.
Billicus wrote: I'm not seeing any reason to use this over Battlescribe and at least one good reason not to
Not having to constantly go back and forth between the unit entry and full list to see what each relic or Warlord trait does is more than enough to put it over Battlescribe for me. All the other ease of use features are icing on the cake past that.
Uh, what? Battlescribe has an army view that puts all the rules for the selected force in a single scrollable list, Battle Forge requires you to drill into each unit entry to see what it does while the relics/psychic powers/etc are not with the unit data card. My captain's stats and his base equipment stats, what equipment, relic and warlord traits I gave him, what that warlord trait does, and what that relic does are all in different places.
On the other hand, Battlescribe chugs like a cottage cheese margarita when I open a list and it crashes altogether loading after an update, Battle Forge beats it like a rented mule on that front.
Try actually reading what I wrote. Here's what I'm talking about: In Battle Forge, the weapons, Warlord options, and Relics give your their rules when you go to select them. For Battlescribe, you HAVE to go to the Army View to read what they do. If I want to look at what the various options do in Battlescribe, I have to continuously go back and forth between the unit options and list view. For Battle Forge, all I need to do is pull up the list of options. If I hit the Relics button, I have a list of all valid Relics AND their rules, that isn't a thing in Battlescribe, you just get a list in which you have to select one and then go to list view to see what that ONE does, repeat ad nauseum.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/12/09 16:58:34
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GaroRobe wrote: I like that they show off the "Ancient in Terminator armor" which was the Japenese exclusive terminator from the Space Marine Heroes paint set
It was available as a blind box in the RoW Series 2 boxes.
Billicus wrote: I'm not seeing any reason to use this over Battlescribe and at least one good reason not to
Not having to constantly go back and forth between the unit entry and full list to see what each relic or Warlord trait does is more than enough to put it over Battlescribe for me. All the other ease of use features are icing on the cake past that.
Uh, what? Battlescribe has an army view that puts all the rules for the selected force in a single scrollable list, Battle Forge requires you to drill into each unit entry to see what it does while the relics/psychic powers/etc are not with the unit data card. My captain's stats and his base equipment stats, what equipment, relic and warlord traits I gave him, what that warlord trait does, and what that relic does are all in different places.
On the other hand, Battlescribe chugs like a cottage cheese margarita when I open a list and it crashes altogether loading after an update, Battle Forge beats it like a rented mule on that front.
Try actually reading what I wrote. Here's what I'm talking about: In Battle Forge, the weapons, Warlord options, and Relics give your their rules when you go to select them. For Battlescribe, you HAVE to go to the Army View to read what they do. If I want to look at what the various options do in Battlescribe, I have to continuously go back and forth between the unit options and list view. For Battle Forge, all I need to do is pull up the list of options. If I hit the Relics button, I have a list of all valid Relics AND their rules, that isn't a thing in Battlescribe, you just get a list.
Ah, I follow you now. They're each missing an important piece of functionality, Battlescribe won't tell you what Trophy Hunter or The Burning Blade does until after you select them, Battle Forge doesn't give me a summary view that says what my Captain with Trophy Hunter and The Burning Blade does while leaving out the Power Fist and Plasma Pistol that I didn't give him. Battle Forge is a better reference for building a list, Battlescribe is a better reference for playing a list.
Obviously we have different priorities there, hence why I read what you wrote as "I need to flip back and forth in Battlescribe because the army list doesn't show me what my relics do" instead of "I need to flip back and forth in Battlescribe because only the army list shows me what my relics do".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/09 17:24:03
Billicus wrote: I'm not seeing any reason to use this over Battlescribe and at least one good reason not to
Not having to constantly go back and forth between the unit entry and full list to see what each relic or Warlord trait does is more than enough to put it over Battlescribe for me. All the other ease of use features are icing on the cake past that.
Uh, what? Battlescribe has an army view that puts all the rules for the selected force in a single scrollable list, Battle Forge requires you to drill into each unit entry to see what it does while the relics/psychic powers/etc are not with the unit data card. My captain's stats and his base equipment stats, what equipment, relic and warlord traits I gave him, what that warlord trait does, and what that relic does are all in different places.
That's actually the make-or-break feature for me, if the final version doesn't have an army summary view then it's garbage.
On the other hand, Battlescribe chugs like a cottage cheese margarita when I open a list and it crashes altogether loading after an update, Battle Forge beats it like a rented mule on that front.
I really haven't had any issues running Battlescribe and I have what is maybe a late 00's laptop doing it.
Also you already have a standard idea of what relics there are and the requirements to take them. There's only so many entries to memorize.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Billicus wrote: I'm not seeing any reason to use this over Battlescribe and at least one good reason not to
Not having to constantly go back and forth between the unit entry and full list to see what each relic or Warlord trait does is more than enough to put it over Battlescribe for me. All the other ease of use features are icing on the cake past that.
Uh, what? Battlescribe has an army view that puts all the rules for the selected force in a single scrollable list, Battle Forge requires you to drill into each unit entry to see what it does while the relics/psychic powers/etc are not with the unit data card. My captain's stats and his base equipment stats, what equipment, relic and warlord traits I gave him, what that warlord trait does, and what that relic does are all in different places.
That's actually the make-or-break feature for me, if the final version doesn't have an army summary view then it's garbage.
On the other hand, Battlescribe chugs like a cottage cheese margarita when I open a list and it crashes altogether loading after an update, Battle Forge beats it like a rented mule on that front.
I really haven't had any issues running Battlescribe and I have what is maybe a late 00's laptop doing it.
Also you already have a standard idea of what relics there are and the requirements to take them. There's only so many entries to memorize.
I'm running it on a mobile device, I've had all kinds of performance issues with Battlescribe.
Also, you might have a standard idea of what all your relics and warlord traits do, but I sure as heck don't. I own four armies (because I apparently have a problem) and I couldn't begin to tell you what the Custodes warlord traits or relics are off the top of my head. I doubt that even a Tyranid player who doesn't own another army could tell you what their warlord traits are outside of "god awful". Even for Marines I wouldn't trust that I remember what The Burning Blade does and I use that one all the time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/09 17:39:52
Especially with GW's "re-use the name of the item/rule/etc but subtly change how it works every year or two so you can't just rely on your recollection". But yeah I guess "just memorize all the info" is technically a solution
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/09 17:47:32
Billicus wrote: I'm not seeing any reason to use this over Battlescribe and at least one good reason not to
Not having to constantly go back and forth between the unit entry and full list to see what each relic or Warlord trait does is more than enough to put it over Battlescribe for me. All the other ease of use features are icing on the cake past that.
Uh, what? Battlescribe has an army view that puts all the rules for the selected force in a single scrollable list, Battle Forge requires you to drill into each unit entry to see what it does while the relics/psychic powers/etc are not with the unit data card. My captain's stats and his base equipment stats, what equipment, relic and warlord traits I gave him, what that warlord trait does, and what that relic does are all in different places.
That's actually the make-or-break feature for me, if the final version doesn't have an army summary view then it's garbage.
On the other hand, Battlescribe chugs like a cottage cheese margarita when I open a list and it crashes altogether loading after an update, Battle Forge beats it like a rented mule on that front.
I really haven't had any issues running Battlescribe and I have what is maybe a late 00's laptop doing it.
Also you already have a standard idea of what relics there are and the requirements to take them. There's only so many entries to memorize.
I'm running it on a mobile device, I've had all kinds of performance issues with Battlescribe.
Also, you might have a standard idea of what all your relics and warlord traits do, but I sure as heck don't. I own four armies (because I apparently have a problem) and I couldn't begin to tell you what the Custodes warlord traits or relics are off the top of my head. I doubt that even a Tyranid player who doesn't own another army could tell you what their warlord traits are outside of "god awful". Even for Marines I wouldn't trust that I remember what The Burning Blade does and I use that one all the time.
I have run it on multiple laptops of different brands and 4 mobile devices (all Android) and haven't had a single issue (well maybe a couple of small ones that were patched up a few days later with an update but nothing that wont happen with BattleForge or any other app).
I don't know by hart almost any rules, to see them I add the same character/unit with various loadouts in the same roster, compare them on the summary page and then delete those that I don't want to keep. Some people might fin that tedious but it takes just a couple of extra minutes.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Do you have trouble adding up numbers?
A calculator beyond the scope of your abilities?
Pen and paper just too "out there"?
Does Microsoft Excel scare you?
Then pay monthly for an army builder that you can use on a tiny mobile phone touch screen.
Bargain!
Your "argument" falls apart the moment you remember stuff like battlescribe exists . Thus revealing your sole purpose in thread is to troll
The existence and popularity of Piratescribe would appear to prove two things - firstly, that a lot of people appear to fall into groups along the lines HBMC suggested. Secondly, a lot of people appear to feel entitled to get access to rules content for free, rather than paying the content creator.
His entire premise is that people are too lazy or stupid to build lists using simpler tools, and that's just bs. It's equivalent to telling people that buying a car is stupid because you have two healthy legs that you could use instead, completely ignoring that using a car/ list builder is a much faster and easier way to get the same result.
Your argument regarding piracy and entitlement is completely separate from that, and I have to agree - although the real question is if it's really worth 5 euros a month, and I'm tending towards "no" even if there was no battlescribe - as I'd probably use Excel instead as thats available on desktop PCs.
Nostromodamus wrote: Must be too busy trying to shine this turd of an app to answer my emails about my Deathwatch codex code not working.
There's a few characters that are poorly distinguished in the font they used. I had to go through 1/l/I ("one"/"el"/"eye") until I figured out the right character in mine.
Billicus wrote: I'm not seeing any reason to use this over Battlescribe and at least one good reason not to
Not having to constantly go back and forth between the unit entry and full list to see what each relic or Warlord trait does is more than enough to put it over Battlescribe for me. All the other ease of use features are icing on the cake past that.
Uh, what? Battlescribe has an army view that puts all the rules for the selected force in a single scrollable list, Battle Forge requires you to drill into each unit entry to see what it does while the relics/psychic powers/etc are not with the unit data card. My captain's stats and his base equipment stats, what equipment, relic and warlord traits I gave him, what that warlord trait does, and what that relic does are all in different places.
That's actually the make-or-break feature for me, if the final version doesn't have an army summary view then it's garbage.
On the other hand, Battlescribe chugs like a cottage cheese margarita when I open a list and it crashes altogether loading after an update, Battle Forge beats it like a rented mule on that front.
I really haven't had any issues running Battlescribe and I have what is maybe a late 00's laptop doing it.
Also you already have a standard idea of what relics there are and the requirements to take them. There's only so many entries to memorize.
I'm running it on a mobile device, I've had all kinds of performance issues with Battlescribe.
Also, you might have a standard idea of what all your relics and warlord traits do, but I sure as heck don't. I own four armies (because I apparently have a problem) and I couldn't begin to tell you what the Custodes warlord traits or relics are off the top of my head. I doubt that even a Tyranid player who doesn't own another army could tell you what their warlord traits are outside of "god awful". Even for Marines I wouldn't trust that I remember what The Burning Blade does and I use that one all the time.
You really don't need to memorize every detail outside playing the game. I generally know what the Burning Blade or Axe of Medusa are and what they replace for example. I don't need their rules present though to know that Primaris Captains basically won't have access to the Axe since they don't have Power Axes standard. I wouldn't even really call that a shortcut.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Try actually reading what I wrote. Here's what I'm talking about: In Battle Forge, the weapons, Warlord options, and Relics give your their rules when you go to select them. For Battlescribe, you HAVE to go to the Army View to read what they do. If I want to look at what the various options do in Battlescribe, I have to continuously go back and forth between the unit options and list view. For Battle Forge, all I need to do is pull up the list of options. If I hit the Relics button, I have a list of all valid Relics AND their rules, that isn't a thing in Battlescribe, you just get a list in which you have to select one and then go to list view to see what that ONE does, repeat ad nauseum.
The good news is you can use the lookup feature without subscribing for Codices you own. I've been using that in tandem with Battlescribe when I don't have the hard copy. Granted, that doesn't solve the horrendous sorting they have in the app or the way rules are scattered into multiple subcategories, but it does give me a solid list of these things. I'm hoping the app can solve this for me eventually, but the cost is pretty ridiculous. They need to at least have a 12 month discount or something to be even remotely competitively priced.
Just reading the reviews of this list builder doesn't inspire me to subscribe for that feature of the app.
Biggest issue I've run into is that with this update I can no longer access my Supplement: Blood Angels rules even though I redeemed the code. My buddy with a subscription and no supplement can view all the rules for the new BA book, but I cannot =\. Hopefully an email to their support team gives results.
I'm interested in a full-access app, for $5 CAD per month.
All books, all rules, all WD articles, all the bits and pieces that get released across a dozen books.
GW would make much more money off of me in terms of rules buying if that were the case. Because right now, I don't buy new. I'll buy used, because to me the books aren't worth $50 CAD period... I don't mind spending $20 on a codex but that's about my limit. Expension books? Pfft. If you're getting rid of it and I'm already buying something from you? I'll add $10.
But I honestly would pay $5 a month to have access to any and all rules related to the game. That's fair to me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/09 20:32:48
Mulletdude wrote: Just reading the reviews of this list builder doesn't inspire me to subscribe for that feature of the app.
Biggest issue I've run into is that with this update I can no longer access my Supplement: Blood Angels rules even though I redeemed the code. My buddy with a subscription and no supplement can view all the rules for the new BA book, but I cannot =\. Hopefully an email to their support team gives results.
For what it's worth, outside of the lack of a consolidated "Army View" feature I actually really like what I'm seeing of Battle Forge. It loads quick, it runs without any visual stutter, it's pretty easy to navigate, the polish is there that I'd expect out of an app I'm actually paying for, and it does work well as a reference for building an army. Add the Army View and I'm sold. Unfortunately that Army View is the critical feature, because as far as I'm concerned the app is a game aid and if it doesn't work well as a reference for actually playing the army then it's broken.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/09 20:37:19
greatbigtree wrote: I'm interested in a full-access app, for $5 CAD per month.
All books, all rules, all WD articles, all the bits and pieces that get released across a dozen books.
GW would make much more money off of me in terms of rules buying if that were the case. Because right now, I don't buy new. I'll buy used, because to me the books aren't worth $50 CAD period... I don't mind spending $20 on a codex but that's about my limit. Expension books? Pfft. If you're getting rid of it and I'm already buying something from you? I'll add $10.
But I honestly would pay $5 a month to have access to any and all rules related to the game. That's fair to me.
Agreed. I'd be happy if $5 a month got you all the datasheets, and then faction specific stuff (Relics, powers, sub-faction rules) required the armybook code. At least then, I can see the stats of my opponents units in game. The app will loose that versatility with every release.
But, I'm also the person who likes to buy the collectors edition codex for my two armies every time they get a new book lol. I love having the fancy covers.
No... I'm talking full access. No codes, nothing other than I put $5 from my pocket into GW's pocket (EDIT - each month) and they give me digital access to anything they make, rules wise.
That is what would get me to buy in. Unlimited access. Price is negotiable, but the "purchase" is access to everything.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/09 21:52:56
Decided to give it a try.... two of the DW Kill Teams don't exist so... not a great start. Specialisms also don't appear to work.
Takes a hilariously long time to load pre-game strategems. Doesn't include the DW ones. DW Warlord traits exist but it can't handle Paragon of the Chapter. Doesn't give Master of Sanctity an extra Litany... Master of Sanctity doesn't add to the Battalion's point total even though its added to the army....
Unplace is a mildly hilarious feature but helps you discover the void of All Units. You CAN use this view to look up the stats on models in your army pretty quickly, but the extended rules are sadly pretty hidden. A more robust view for play would be hugely appreciated.
So.... it's not terrible. It's got more mistakes than Battlescribe for my army currently but it does a lot of things better, some things worse, but its not beyond salvage. Worth the cost? Not currently? Will it ever be? Probably not, but if you like it and can afford it its not the worst excess I've seen.
I like the app layout..I like the quick reference rules..
However if this app is ever going to work it needs at bare minimum the ability to build and add options to units in the app even for units you don’t have the book code for. I don’t care if they block out the rules references from those books but I need to see what those options do... but as it is designed it is less useful then BattleScribe for list building.
Once they fix that and speed up the memory issues (I still can’t add strats the app just freezes) in certain spots and fix a few illegal builds/options this app will be decent... maybe not $5 good but decent.. from There they can add a reduce cost yearly subscription price like $29.99 for a year with the app.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/12/10 20:36:48
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I'll rather use Numbers on my iPad for list building than this one
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
Paying for a product that's still in the beta stage is perhaps not unusual (in e.g. video games), but I don't think I've seen it in a subscription service before. Sure, nice to get the first month free, but how long will it take before the product is in a fully functional state; how many paid months have passed by then?
My thanks to those trying the app and sharing their experiences already, so others won't have to.
Prometheum5 wrote: This is such a tired argument against list building apps.
It's not an argument against a list building app. It's an argument against this list building app. Y'know, the one that'll have a monthly fee just to use, and you still have to buy the Codices on top of that, and you don't even get a digital copy of the Codex.
tneva82 wrote: Your "argument" falls apart the moment you remember stuff like battlescribe exists . Thus revealing your sole purpose in thread is to troll
You don't pay for Battlescribe, so all that was really revealed is that you didn't understand my post.
Back in the days when Army Builder was the thing everyone used, I used it all the time. There were periods where I always had the program open - literally never closed for weeks - as I'd always find myself jumping in to tinker around with a new concept or a new list. It was fun. And I owned every fething Codex they put out. It wasn't "Army Pirater" or whatever nonsense nickname you might have given it had this very conversation taken place back then.
Trying to pin the anger towards this app on some form of entitlement or a want to "pirate" rules is pants on head moronic. It's bad because GW are taking people for a ride. You'd have to be mad to pay monthly for this garbage.
And just to clarify, because people still don't seem to get it:
I'm not arguing against army-building programs/apps. I'm arguing against this specific one. My post, hyperbolic as it was, was meant to point out that literally anything, even pen and paper, is better than giving GW money for their pathetic app.
And GW have done this before, y'know. They've released army builder programs, promising the world, under-delivered, and then abandoned them. Now this one wants you to pay per month to build lists? And you can only use the list building part if you first purchase a Codex and scan it in, which doesn't even give you an electronic version of the Codex (which they've also stopped selling).
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Why are some of you expecting a different result?
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2020/12/10 08:20:14
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