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After much juggling with the new house I finally got time to catch up on my MCU stuff.

Wandavision is pretty much everything already addressed here, and I'm chomping at the bit to see what they wind up doing with both NuVision and Photon.



Falcon and the Winter Soldier? I had a much different takeaway from this one than people here. Walker needed mentoring for a job that he wasn't as prepared for as he thought. And the two people most suited for mentoring him? Treated him like absolute gak for the crime of not being Sam or Steve. Period. Walker's trip off the rails was every bit as much Sam and Bucky's fault as it was his.

Oh, and by the time the show ended I had secretly hoped that 3/4 of the last episode would have been an excruciating and slow death for Karli, not what we got. And Sharon's heel turn didn't seem as much of a natural evolution as people claimed. Someone who believed in things enough to risk her career to help Sam and Steve out turned into a crimelord fixer because she couldn't pop in to say hi to a cuz? WOW.

And on a final note, I had thought that with the glowing accolades on here about Julia Louis-Dreyfus' appearance that somehow she wouldn't be playing a slightly more cloying version of Elaine that she always seems to play. I thought wrong.

 Just Tony wrote:

Falcon and the Winter Soldier? I had a much different takeaway from this one than people here. Walker needed mentoring for a job that he wasn't as prepared for as he thought. And the two people most suited for mentoring him? Treated him like absolute gak for the crime of not being Sam or Steve. Period. Walker's trip off the rails was every bit as much Sam and Bucky's fault as it was his.

I agree that this is what he needed. But I also don't think this is what he was looking for.

He had bought into his own press by quite a bit. When he showed up it wasn't looking for mentors and help. It was looking for side kicks to fall in line. Yes, he does take a moment on the back of that truck where he starts to have some humility for the position he has been placed into and asks for them to join him. But even then it's looking for Steve's "Wingman" to be his wingman.

Walker's trip off the rails is made worse by the super soldier serum. It amplifies whats already there, remember? Walkers pride skyrockets.

 AduroT wrote:
Modok was ok. It watched the whole thing, and it wasn’t terrible. I initially didn’t like it but watched a few and it got better. Is it getting more seasons? I know it was on the tail end of them switching gears with the Marvel shows. It definitely ends with stuff unresolved though.

Given how Marvel Studios has killed everything Marvel Television was working on, it's doubtful that MODOK comes back.

 Just Tony wrote:
And Sharon's heel turn didn't seem as much of a natural evolution as people claimed. Someone who believed in things enough to risk her career to help Sam and Steve out turned into a crimelord fixer because she couldn't pop in to say hi to a cuz? WOW..

That's a bit of an extreme simplification. She believed in Steve's cause enough to risk her career... and then saw everyone else involved in that episode pardoned while she was seemingly forgotten about by her friends and still considered a criminal by the authorities.

I think she can be excused for getting a little bitter and twisted about that.

Lance845 wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

Falcon and the Winter Soldier? I had a much different takeaway from this one than people here. Walker needed mentoring for a job that he wasn't as prepared for as he thought. And the two people most suited for mentoring him? Treated him like absolute gak for the crime of not being Sam or Steve. Period. Walker's trip off the rails was every bit as much Sam and Bucky's fault as it was his.

I agree that this is what he needed. But I also don't think this is what he was looking for.

He had bought into his own press by quite a bit. When he showed up it wasn't looking for mentors and help. It was looking for side kicks to fall in line. Yes, he does take a moment on the back of that truck where he starts to have some humility for the position he has been placed into and asks for them to join him. But even then it's looking for Steve's "Wingman" to be his wingman.

Walker's trip off the rails is made worse by the super soldier serum. It amplifies whats already there, remember? Walkers pride skyrockets.

Even if he wasn't asking for it, advice would have come almost immediately. Picture Sam saying "Look dude, some advice? The hype train is nice and everything, but it just gets in the way. Steve was a PR thing at first, sure, but he dropped it as soon as there was legit work to do."

That little step right there might have been enough, but as it stood Lamar was his only grounding voice and even HE was on the Walker hype train because of their shared military combat experience.

Which that bugs me, too. Sam and Bucky were BOTH combat vets, and even with that common ground they chose to essentially gak on Walker from the get go. Not very good optics, honestly.

insaniak wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
And Sharon's heel turn didn't seem as much of a natural evolution as people claimed. Someone who believed in things enough to risk her career to help Sam and Steve out turned into a crimelord fixer because she couldn't pop in to say hi to a cuz? WOW..

That's a bit of an extreme simplification. She believed in Steve's cause enough to risk her career... and then saw everyone else involved in that episode pardoned while she was seemingly forgotten about by her friends and still considered a criminal by the authorities.

I think she can be excused for getting a little bitter and twisted about that.

Yeah, how could 3 people not find a woman who went so far off the grid that the entire US government couldn't find her? This is just bad storytelling in order to justify a garbage tier heel turn.

 insaniak wrote:
That's a bit of an extreme simplification. She believed in Steve's cause enough to risk her career... and then saw everyone else involved in that episode pardoned while she was seemingly forgotten about by her friends and still considered a criminal by the authorities.

Then saw half the world population just disappear then a few years later reappear with all the ensuing stresses and confusion that comes with that.

When did they even pardon them? Didn’t they go directly from on the run to Snap? And they thought she died in the snap.

 AduroT wrote:
When did they even pardon them?

At some point after everyone came back. Sam and Bucky mention it very briefly, I think in the episode that introduces Isaiah Bradley.

 Just Tony wrote:

Lance845 wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

Falcon and the Winter Soldier? I had a much different takeaway from this one than people here. Walker needed mentoring for a job that he wasn't as prepared for as he thought. And the two people most suited for mentoring him? Treated him like absolute gak for the crime of not being Sam or Steve. Period. Walker's trip off the rails was every bit as much Sam and Bucky's fault as it was his.

I agree that this is what he needed. But I also don't think this is what he was looking for.

He had bought into his own press by quite a bit. When he showed up it wasn't looking for mentors and help. It was looking for side kicks to fall in line. Yes, he does take a moment on the back of that truck where he starts to have some humility for the position he has been placed into and asks for them to join him. But even then it's looking for Steve's "Wingman" to be his wingman.

Walker's trip off the rails is made worse by the super soldier serum. It amplifies whats already there, remember? Walkers pride skyrockets.

Even if he wasn't asking for it, advice would have come almost immediately. Picture Sam saying "Look dude, some advice? The hype train is nice and everything, but it just gets in the way. Steve was a PR thing at first, sure, but he dropped it as soon as there was legit work to do."

That little step right there might have been enough, but as it stood Lamar was his only grounding voice and even HE was on the Walker hype train because of their shared military combat experience.

Which that bugs me, too. Sam and Bucky were BOTH combat vets, and even with that common ground they chose to essentially gak on Walker from the get go. Not very good optics, honestly.

That's not the point I was making though. The point I was making was even if Bucky and Sam decided to give advise to this person they had never met before, that person was not listening. Walker, throughout the entire series, was stepping up into a role that he was unprepared for and didn't actually understand and handled that by taking charge. Sam and Bucky COULD have offered advise and been mentors. And Walker wouldn't have listened.

As to Sam and Bucky, Sam was furious that he even had the shield and was just doing what he could to stay polite. Bucky was trauma incarnate. Neither was in a position to start giving advise or be this guys mentor. Both didn't really blame HIM for having the shield but both were mad as hell that he had it. Bucky and Sam are flawed people. They are NOT Steve Rogers. Steve absolutely would have been a mentor, given advise, and stepped in to stop him when he started crossing the line. But they are not Steve. Just about the only person in Marvel with a near perfect track record of doing the right thing is Steve Rogers.

 Just Tony wrote:

Lance845 wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

Falcon and the Winter Soldier? I had a much different takeaway from this one than people here. Walker needed mentoring for a job that he wasn't as prepared for as he thought. And the two people most suited for mentoring him? Treated him like absolute gak for the crime of not being Sam or Steve. Period. Walker's trip off the rails was every bit as much Sam and Bucky's fault as it was his.

I agree that this is what he needed. But I also don't think this is what he was looking for.

He had bought into his own press by quite a bit. When he showed up it wasn't looking for mentors and help. It was looking for side kicks to fall in line. Yes, he does take a moment on the back of that truck where he starts to have some humility for the position he has been placed into and asks for them to join him. But even then it's looking for Steve's "Wingman" to be his wingman.

Walker's trip off the rails is made worse by the super soldier serum. It amplifies whats already there, remember? Walkers pride skyrockets.

Even if he wasn't asking for it, advice would have come almost immediately. Picture Sam saying "Look dude, some advice? The hype train is nice and everything, but it just gets in the way. Steve was a PR thing at first, sure, but he dropped it as soon as there was legit work to do."

That little step right there might have been enough, but as it stood Lamar was his only grounding voice and even HE was on the Walker hype train because of their shared military combat experience.

Which that bugs me, too. Sam and Bucky were BOTH combat vets, and even with that common ground they chose to essentially gak on Walker from the get go. Not very good optics, honestly.

insaniak wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
And Sharon's heel turn didn't seem as much of a natural evolution as people claimed. Someone who believed in things enough to risk her career to help Sam and Steve out turned into a crimelord fixer because she couldn't pop in to say hi to a cuz? WOW..

That's a bit of an extreme simplification. She believed in Steve's cause enough to risk her career... and then saw everyone else involved in that episode pardoned while she was seemingly forgotten about by her friends and still considered a criminal by the authorities.

I think she can be excused for getting a little bitter and twisted about that.

Yeah, how could 3 people not find a woman who went so far off the grid that the entire US government couldn't find her? This is just bad storytelling in order to justify a garbage tier heel turn.

Sam and Bucky had their own issues but these don't count so they could babysit Walker? After that "I never met Captain Rogers but he felt like a brother" line in that risible stadium interview? How that go down with Steve's best friend in WW2 and his best friend from the present day?

We can picture X saying Y to Z but that of course is not the story they wanted to tell. That plot thread was saying you can't just take any soldier (no matter how 'heroic' he may have been), give him the shield (copyright 1943, Stark Industries) and call him Captain America. It takes a special person. A good person. And they were looking in the wrong place. Steve Rogers wasn't a soldier, until chosen for the experiment.

If you watch the show you'll discover that they didn't find her she found them. They weren't even looking for her.

A little over 12 hours to go in the U.K., assuming the usual 8am release window.

I propose a standardised Seven Day Spoilers agreement?

So on the release of episode 2 we can talk openly about episode 1.

I am cool with that.

Why? The title of the thread literally says "spoilers within" and anyone who clicks on the thread knowing they've not watched to date on any show has nobody to blame if they trip over something.

Let people take responsibility for their own actions, not modify our own to mollycoddle the stupid.

to start with because we have a single massive thread to discuss everything. I think at the very least people should put spoilers for the current episode in spoiler blocks?

Then you just get a page and a half of spoiler tags.

What's the Venn diagram of people who absolutely cannot wait to talk about other Marvel TV shows online but aren't that fussed about watching the first episode of a brand new one? On a board that isn't even dedicated to Marvel or TV shows in the majority?

The thread says "Spoilers" right in the title. To come here and expect spoiler tags is...... something.....

Ohhh nooooo. Spoiler tags?

Thread ruined!

I’m not opposed to spoiler tags on Wednesday, but a full week is way overkill. You Shouldn’t be reading the thread if you know the episode is out and you haven’t seen it. I know *I* make a point of not reading the various tv threads here if I’m not up to date.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Ohhh nooooo. Spoiler tags?

Thread ruined!

It's the text equivalent of trying to hold a conversation in poor cell reception.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Ohhh nooooo. Spoiler ____s?

Thread ruined!

Six of one. Half a dozen of the other.

 Scrabb wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Ohhh nooooo. Spoiler tags?

Thread ruined!

Six of one. Half a dozen of the other.

Fixed.

Episode 1.

Not a spoiler, but I really like the look of the TVA - but then I have recently played Control, which has a very similar aesthetic.

Solid opener.

Mad Doc wrote:TVA is suitably shadowy for the time being. Just enough info given for the audience to get a handle on them, leaving plenty yet to be explained.

Honestly, the concept is kinda hellish. Particularly so when Owen is kicking Loki on what he's 'supposed' to be.

I'm very much with Loki on the idea of burning the place to the ground- this is solid nightmare fuel, and the show is openly dismissing the implications of what they're setting up. Just a lot of characters looking to the side and muttering 'well...'

Not sure how this is going to go. These particular tropes, both the metaphysics and the organization (TSAB, Time Lords, whatever it was called in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, etc), have a lot of pitfalls.

Also...

I enjoyed the first episode and am looking forward to the rest.

I do have one issue though, I found the opening quite jarring.

Aash wrote:
I enjoyed the first episode and am looking forward to the rest.

I do have one issue though, I found the opening quite jarring.

Spoiler:

Although it hasn’t been said outright in the MCU (IIRC), the asgardians speak Allspeak, as implied by their ability to speak to all manner of creatures in Thor Ragnarok, so why don’t the Mongolians in the desert understand Loki and vice versus?

Honestly, because it hasn't been said, and they didn't want to spend time explaining it.
The payoff for comicbook trivia like that is kinda.. eh.

Voss wrote:

Aash wrote:
I enjoyed the first episode and am looking forward to the rest.

I do have one issue though, I found the opening quite jarring.

Spoiler:

Although it hasn’t been said outright in the MCU (IIRC), the asgardians speak Allspeak, as implied by their ability to speak to all manner of creatures in Thor Ragnarok, so why don’t the Mongolians in the desert understand Loki and vice versus?

Honestly, because it hasn't been said, and they didn't want to spend time explaining it.
The payoff for comicbook trivia like that is kinda.. eh.

I just felt it was a cheap joke that the expense of continuity, and it took me out of the moment. It didn’t need explaining, any more than Loki addressing the German crowd in Avengers, or Thor and Loki talking to aliens needed explaining.