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I did like how they put the original FF cast in the film.

 LunarSol wrote:
Yup. I get the feeling it was pretty devoid of action originally which is what they delayed it for, but honestly, I don't feel like any of the additional action sequences added anything, and it suffers massively from not being timely.

Apparently, one of the main reasons for the delay was to make it less "Comic booky", with the Serpent Society originally being full-on costumed villains not a generic merc unit.

I would like to have seen that version.

 aku-chan wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Yup. I get the feeling it was pretty devoid of action originally which is what they delayed it for, but honestly, I don't feel like any of the additional action sequences added anything, and it suffers massively from not being timely.

Apparently, one of the main reasons for the delay was to make it less "Comic booky", with the Serpent Society originally being full-on costumed villains not a generic merc unit.

I would like to have seen that version.

Insert obligatory demand for studios to stop trying to make comic book movies less comic booky. They're supposed to be comic booky!


There were also supposedly reshoots to reduce Sabra's role - which would make sense given that in the finished movie you see a glimpse or two of her costume without any reason for her to actually be wearing it.

 insaniak wrote:

 aku-chan wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Yup. I get the feeling it was pretty devoid of action originally which is what they delayed it for, but honestly, I don't feel like any of the additional action sequences added anything, and it suffers massively from not being timely.

Apparently, one of the main reasons for the delay was to make it less "Comic booky", with the Serpent Society originally being full-on costumed villains not a generic merc unit.

I would like to have seen that version.

Insert obligatory demand for studios to stop trying to make comic book movies less comic booky. They're supposed to be comic booky!


There were also supposedly reshoots to reduce Sabra's role - which would make sense given that in the finished movie you see a glimpse or two of her costume without any reason for her to actually be wearing it.

Ooh I misread that totally. I thought it was saying that you could see a glimpse of Sabra (Shira Hass) sans costume... ie sans clothes.

I'm going back into the gutter to visit my mind... who apparently lives there full time now.

I agree that Cap 4 was ruined by the trailers. The movie would have been far better if the Red hulk stuff was entirely unknown going into the movie.

I also agree with making it more comic booky. By that I don't mean that I need to see Cobra in a big green and purple onesy with a mask shaped like a snake head. (That doesn't really fit the MCU as is) But all the concept art of the Serpent Society looked awesome. I wish we got to see it.

https://thedirect.com/article/captain-america-4-supervillain-removed

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/1j1a3fc/scrapped_concept_art_of_the_original_serpent/

 Lance845 wrote:
I agree that Cap 4 was ruined by the trailers. The movie would have been far better if the Red hulk stuff was entirely unknown going into the movie.

I also agree with making it more comic booky. By that I don't mean that I need to see Cobra in a big green and purple onesy with a mask shaped like a snake head. (That doesn't really fit the MCU as is) But all the concept art of the Serpent Society looked awesome. I wish we got to see it.

https://thedirect.com/article/captain-america-4-supervillain-removed

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/1j1a3fc/scrapped_concept_art_of_the_original_serpent/

The problem was the film was delayed and the toys and happy meal promotional items were shown with Red Hulk. This time the great spoiler were the toys.

Toys are always the biggest spoilers. They got really upset when Funko I think it was showed off a set with Giant Man before that movie came out when the studio was careful to keep that out of their own promotional material.

Yeah, but they didn't need to lean all the way in and then put every bit of the reveal as seen on screen in every trailer and poster going forward.

So McDonalds made a little figure of Red Hulk in a car. It doesn't tell me anything about the role in the movie. THEY ruined the movie bit of it.

 Lance845 wrote:
I also agree with making it more comic booky. By that I don't mean that I need to see Cobra in a big green and purple onesy with a mask shaped like a snake head. (That doesn't really fit the MCU as is) But all the concept art of the Serpent Society looked awesome. I wish we got to see it.

For my money, leaning into more comic-accurate looks is exactly the direction they should be going in. Sure, some of them look ridiculous and might need a little tweaking here and there for live action (as the heroes did)... but if we're to embrace the idea that this is a universe in which superheroes and supervillains exist, we also should be ok with the idea that they would lean into their costumed identities, because that's always been a core part of the setting.

If DC can make Black Manta look cool, they can make anyone look cool.

 insaniak wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I also agree with making it more comic booky. By that I don't mean that I need to see Cobra in a big green and purple onesy with a mask shaped like a snake head. (That doesn't really fit the MCU as is) But all the concept art of the Serpent Society looked awesome. I wish we got to see it.

For my money, leaning into more comic-accurate looks is exactly the direction they should be going in. Sure, some of them look ridiculous and might need a little tweaking here and there for live action (as the heroes did)... but if we're to embrace the idea that this is a universe in which superheroes and supervillains exist, we also should be ok with the idea that they would lean into their costumed identities, because that's always been a core part of the setting.

I don't disagree. I just think it needs to fit the character. The serpent society as a mercenary group doing what they were doing in the movie... well.. the concept art fits that. Plain clothes people infiltrating a space. Bodies that look like they are heavily tattooed are actually cybernetic body modifications that reveal all the whacky weirdness of the SS. Does it make sense for them to show up in a series of snake themed hats? No. But purple and green general attire with stretchy bodies and whatnot? Great. All in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AduroT wrote:
If DC can make Black Manta look cool, they can make anyone look cool.

I don't disagree with this either lol. But it also fits that world better. They did all the dumb comic book things in that weird underwater world. Ham it up with the villains big dumb head scuba suit.

Black Manta was way cooler than he had any right to be.

That said, whenever they talked about SERPENT in the Cap 4 movie, my mind immediately inserted COBRA instead. Silly mind!

That is silly. It would have added too much character to the movie.


You say, but what about The Leader?
No, not like that.

Gonna be honest, I think I completely glossed over the fact those guys were supposed to be the Serpent Society. Like it didn’t even register. They were just generic mercenary goons to me.

 AduroT wrote:
Gonna be honest, I think I completely glossed over the fact those guys were supposed to be the Serpent Society. Like it didn’t even register. They were just generic mercenary goons to me.

Especially since Nick Fury was nowhere to be found.

 AduroT wrote:
Gonna be honest, I think I completely glossed over the fact those guys were supposed to be the Serpent Society. Like it didn’t even register. They were just generic mercenary goons to me.

They would have really benefitted from a proper introduction. I don't know if I just missed it, but I didn't get the sense that the leader dude had any business getting a prolonged scene of going up against Sam. At least not the way it was played up to be some classic match or something. It didn't seem like it had much relevance to the story.

Ties in a bit with the conversation about decomicification. I'd rather go "oh, that guy's wearing a costume, he must be important" than "they must have paid a lot for that face, so I guess the character is important" even if I don't know who the character is. At least it's an in universe cue that I'm looking at more than just a random dude.

All of that with the caveat that I've seen Captain America - Eternals Did Happen! only once and a while ago. Maybe there's more there than I remember.

I'm not sure. They're not all that relevant and to me mostly felt like the inclusion of Batroc the Leaper in Winter Soldier. I didn't get the feeling they were supposed to be all that important.

The challenge of making Sam the star of Steve's franchise is definitely a big part of it. Bartoc worked because Steve was coming off Hydra and Avengers, so an early jobber makes a nice pallet cleanser. Sam didn't get as big of a debut, so I think the Serpents being fully goofy probably felt more like they undermined him rather than build him up like they were supposed to.

Kind of curious as Esposito originally wasn't in the film. He seems to exist to make the Serpents more integrated into the plot than they probably were in their costumed version of the film.

I like the inclusion of stuff like Batroc and the like because it tickles the nostalgia bits of the brain. I like seeing references back to the books and the world.

 Geifer wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Gonna be honest, I think I completely glossed over the fact those guys were supposed to be the Serpent Society. Like it didn’t even register. They were just generic mercenary goons to me.

They would have really benefitted from a proper introduction. I don't know if I just missed it, but I didn't get the sense that the leader dude had any business getting a prolonged scene of going up against Sam. At least not the way it was played up to be some classic match or something. It didn't seem like it had much relevance to the story.

Ties in a bit with the conversation about decomicification. I'd rather go "oh, that guy's wearing a costume, he must be important" than "they must have paid a lot for that face, so I guess the character is important" even if I don't know who the character is. At least it's an in universe cue that I'm looking at more than just a random dude.

All of that with the caveat that I've seen Captain America - Eternals Did Happen! only once and a while ago. Maybe there's more there than I remember.

Their importance to the story was that they were stealing the sample of adamantium, but also that they were stealing it for the purposes of starting a larger conflict. It was not dissimilar to Zemo triggering a broader conflict by impersonating Bucky, but different people pulling the strings for different end goals. The SS wasn't the Zemo. They were the goons hired by the Leader to create the tensions that would push Ross.

I was left with the impression that if Sterns (The Leader?) and Baron Zemo ever got together..... the heroes would be screwed.

Yeah, Sterns is "The Leader". One of Hulk's traditional counterparty nemesis villains, though I wouldn't say he's particularly popular or has very many good stories, but I would have liked something more compelling than the awkward probability rambling.